Fix The Problem Ourselves

[richard10365]

The Thai government really has a problem with screening new teachers in Thailand. I read again today about another undesirable teaching English in Thailand. This leads me to believe there is a business opportunity here somewhere.

A crafty businessman with a silver tongue could really clean up in this field if he (or she) were to start a business helping the Ministry of Education (MOE) with criminal records checks (CRC). The MOE could even put their official seal of approval on the business to give it some credibility.

School recruiters could just provide passport information of the applicant to the screening business and let them do the rest.

The recruiters pays the screening business a processing fee (which would vary according to country) and the screener produce a CRC report which says approved or disapproved.

With teachers coming and going here in Thailand, this is a business that could last forever. Also, if ran by foreigners, it would let the Thai government know that we are policing ourselves to help provide Thailand with safer teachers to teach their children.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Such a crafty businessman would also have only the best and most advanced educational credentials and licensing from his own country (I'm thinking Ph.d Ed.) in order to allay any suspicion over how qualified he was to judge the qualifications of others, right? And you'd have one of such businessmen from every relevant country, right? And these gentleman would be immune to bribery and other forms of corruption, so that they wouldn't be tempted to bend their principles for the sake of money or pragmatism, eh, even if it were suggested by someone with a lot of power and/or a gun (because you wouldn't want someone whose poor decisions would cause the country to lose face later, would you?)? And since they'd be in the role of educational consultants, no doubt they'd have a Thai partner with equally good Thai-related educational credentials...

And such businessmen would no doubt have the right kind of work permit and visa in order to profit legally from their gains, and thereby avoid being unceremoniously ejected from the country once they was finished and the Thais no longer needed them- but of course..... and they'd have the company set up with seven owners, fair and square, with no more than 50% owned by foreigners, and capitalised at.... and so forth... so many classrooms for every Thai teacher... water pressure at MOE approved psi... and so on....

Good luck!

"Steven"

[lamphun]

It's called an agency. Very common in other professions.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Yup. And we teachers in Thailand know that agencies here never, but NEVER, ever, bend the law or are corrupt in ANY way (serious sarcasm here, for anyone who's not a teacher).

Basically, agencies are the most corrupt teaching "institutions" around in Thailand right now- hire the least qualified people and yet somehow still get work permits for their guys, who are working for the lowest pay (coincidentally).

If you make another private "agency," it'll be same as KSR all over again, just with fees in a different place.

[Ijustwannateach]

By the way, Richard, your idea's not a *bad* one- it just makes too much sense for it to become a reality that pays off for any truly well-meaning and qualified foreigner.

[ilyushin]

Why not get copies of education records and a hand written cover sheet explaining your education and/or criminal background , go to your embassy and get a sworn affidavit.

Plus teachers currently teaching can have a letter sent to UNESCO and get a reliable Teacher's Card with a 1-800 number to check the teacher.

The diplomatic corp is happy, local MoE officials no headache ( and no headache with them too). Plus the handy UNESCO Teacher's Card that gives the instructor all kinds of educational opportunities and parties.

Seems too simple.

I have all kinds of certs and a copy of criminal check back to 1994 ( as far as they could go). I have not even lived in my country of birth since early 80' so access to educational and accurate criminal records ( record or not) is a shot in dark. Not much faith in agencies. I've seen sad attempts for a fee of USD100/person. Got to be a better way.

The ground school and flight school I studied at are now a Raytheon completion center. My Uni has been renamed and other education/training certs come from too many various countries which is almost impossible to verify. Several years ago I was vetted by a major operator (airline) and they gave up after only being able to speak to my references who were currently listed on good standings with the FAA or other related organizations. My membership to AOPA is a gold card to other pilots so I don't have to carry loads of original documents all the time.

The UNESCO card would do the trick along with a reusable affidavit from your embassy. Don't you think so?

Hope they make a standardized system at least. the teachers in Thailand could use a break. They work hard or at least the ones I know do.

[PeaceBlondie]

ilyushin, I don't think the UK or US or Canadian embassies do that for their citizens. I don't know what a UNESCO card is, or how to get it. Care to clarify?

Richard's opening post is a great idea, but not likely to happen in Thailand during the 26th century.

ilyushin, to get my clearance, I'd have to visit the American embassy or consulate just to get a certain heavy-duty form, then get properly fingerprinted, mail it off to the FBI, pay for it in an acceptable method and currency, wait four to six weeks, and then find out if the prints were good enough. Then, how does any govt. employee in Thailand know if this is a legitimate FBI clearance, or a KSR copy of Georgie Goebel's ninth grade report card? And if I - former US Treasury officer - were working there and Khun Nowigotcha even bothered to ask my professional opinion of somebody's supposed clearance from the Welsh bureau of Scotland Yard, or a sherriff deputy's letter from East Podunk, Arkansas - how would I know it hadn't been photo-shopped?

[richard10365]

Oh well.....it was just a thought. Most ideas start as one thing and eventually end up as another. I just thought I would toss it out there and see how this one ended up.

[simon43]

I actually thought of this business idea some months ago.. August 2006

I even registered a domain - AjarnOK.com .

Just too busy to get the business of the ground though.

Simon

[ilyushin]

Richard the idea is great. It would need to be an expert with reliable credentials to have a one stop check for teachers. I would assume the Moe would want in on the money.

PeaceBlondie appreciate your message. The UNESCO card details are as follows:

International Teacher Identity Card issued by UNESCO.

URL is The International Teacher Identity Card (ITIC)

Affidavits are available from US and UK embassies in Bangkok for a fee of Baht 1,200 or less. It is a cover letter attached to any educational documents, certs, legal documents, etc... and then sworn as legal by yourself with an officer stamping and signing it off. They will check these documents for accuracy and if any doc looks like a fake and/or are fake then the holder is in serious trouble with their home country as well as in Thailand or other countries it would be used in. I use the affidavits for contracts, other legal docs and translations from both US and UK embassies.

You could also add that you have not been convicted, tried or wanted for any crimes and if it turns out you are then you have another charge on top.

Just some ideas for the struggling teachers under the current crisis. The MoE is not organized or able to handle such checks. Another method must be made.

[adjan jb]

PeaceBlondie appreciate your message. The UNESCO card details are as follows:

International Teacher Identity Card issued by UNESCO.

URL is The International Teacher Identity Card (ITIC)

I've visited the website and I haven't seen a single mention of the UNESCO. It looks like a private business to me.

[jjspitz]

An interesting and logical idea, but not likely to happen. The immigration authorities are already milking the new rule changes for some extra cash. Why would they want to share that with a foreign agency. I have first hand experience of some hefty wads of bills being handed over to insure paperwork goes smoothly. Having cheats in the system isn't the real problem for immigration authorities. It's people cheating the sytem who haven't paid for that priviledge. Everything is for sale in Thailand, and that's doubly true for anything that requires official approval.

[PeaceBlondie]

PeaceBlondie appreciate your message. The UNESCO card details are as follows:

International Teacher Identity Card issued by UNESCO.

URL is The International Teacher Identity Card (ITIC)

I've visited the website and I haven't seen a single mention of the UNESCO. It looks like a private business to me.

Agreeing with adjan jb: that's a commercial, for-profit website, with no stated connection to UNESCO. Besides, I doubt the US embassy does all that stuff. Can you at least point out the place on www.state.gov where the embassy or consulate in Thailand claims to do such a thing?

[richard10365]

An interesting and logical idea, but not likely to happen. The immigration authorities are already milking the new rule changes for some extra cash. Why would they want to share that with a foreign agency. I have first hand experience of some hefty wads of bills being handed over to insure paperwork goes smoothly. Having cheats in the system isn't the real problem for immigration authorities. It's people cheating the sytem who haven't paid for that priviledge. Everything is for sale in Thailand, and that's doubly true for anything that requires official approval.

They are asking for background checks from foreign agencies. The best solution would be to have a foreign agency that works with the Thai government to get them what they want.

[ilyushin]

Full-time Teacher or Professor

If you are a full-time teacher or professor and would like to use your skills abroad or simply take some time out to explore the world, the International Teacher Identity Card (ITIC) is for you.

The ITIC was introduced in 1984 to provide travelling teachers and professors with a recognised document that is accepted around the world as proof of teacher status, and is now the most widely accepted form of teacher identification.

To apply for the ITIC, you need proof that you are a full-time teacher, professor or instructor at a recognised educational establishment. You must be employed for a minimum of 18 hours per week for a minimum of one academic year.

Educational Travel Center

Phone: +66 2 224 0043

Fax: +66 2 622 1420

Email: [email protected]

Website: www.etc.co.th

2 Rajdamnoen Avenue

Royal Hotel, Room 318

Bangkok

Thailand

Services Offered:ISIC ITIC IYTC

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STA Travel

Phone: +66 2 236 0262

Fax: +66 2 237 6005

Email: [email protected]

Website: www.statravel.co.th

33/70 Surawong Road

Wall Street Tower, 14th Floor, Room 1406

Bangkok

Thailand

Services Offered:ISIC ITIC IYTC

ISIC and UNESCO

UNESCO endorses the ISIC and recognises it as the unique document for student travel and cultural exchange, as well as the only official internationally recognised proof of student status. Since 1968, the ISIC Association has maintained a close relationship with UNESCO and together they promote student travel, cultural exchange and international understanding

Web site looking for ITIC.

http://www.istc.org/

Sure there is a fee.

They have a UNESCO lable and a hot line on the card.

[ilyushin]

PeaceBlondie appreciate your message. The UNESCO card details are as follows:

International Teacher Identity Card issued by UNESCO.

URL is The International Teacher Identity Card (ITIC)

I've visited the website and I haven't seen a single mention of the UNESCO. It looks like a private business to me.

Agreeing with adjan jb: that's a commercial, for-profit website, with no stated connection to UNESCO. Besides, I doubt the US embassy does all that stuff. Can you at least point out the place on www.state.gov where the embassy or consulate in Thailand claims to do such a thing?

FYI

I used original hand written cover letter ( US form) with attached copies and had them stamped ( Notary Public or sworn) the affidavit declaring the documents are legal it takes only a few minutes. They accept it as legal in my business.

From the US Embassy site in Thailand.

Consular Officers perform notary services customarily provided by Notaries Public in the U.S. Persons requiring such services should visit the Consular Section during regular office hours. Please note that a consular officer cannot witness a will. Note also that a consular officer cannot certify that documents are valid or that statements made are true. He or she can attest only to the oath taken by the person making the statements or presenting the documents.

PLEASE BRING THE FOLLOWING ITEMS WHEN YOU COME FOR A NOTARIZATION:

The documents to be notarized.

Identification.

Witnesses, if necessary.

US$30 for the first notarial seal, and $20 for each additional seal. Cash (either Baht or dollars); personal checks cannot be accepted.

Procedures for Authentication and Legalizing Official Documents Issued In the United States

Official documents requiring authentication will need to be certified first by the entity that issued them, then by the state in which that entity is located, and then by the federal government (the U.S. State Department). Once the document has been authenticated by the U.S. State Department, the foreign embassy in the United States of the country requesting the document will perform a final authentication. Following is a brief outline of what will be required (though the actual requirements will vary greatly from state to state).

To authenticate and legalize official documents issued in the United States, please follow the steps below.

Step 1: Obtain the Document

If you do not already have the document, contact the custodian of records where the document was originally issued to obtain a copy. In some cases you may be required to obtain a new sealed copy for the purposes of authentication, even if you already possess a copy. Please check with your respective state.

Academic Records: Contact the respective academic institution directly for information on what it will need to certify the document’s authenticity. Some academic institutions require the submission of the original diploma; others issue a true copy themselves. Most academic transcripts issued to the student, for example, cannot be used for official purposes; a new sealed copy must be obtained.

Step 2: Contact the State Authentication Office

Authentication procedures vary from state to state. We strongly encourage patrons to contact their respective state’s authentication office for more information. Refer to the National Association of Secretaries of State website to locate the state specific Authentication Authorities at: www.nass.org Home page > NPA Section Tab > State Websites Tab > choose a state to get the state Notary Public website.

Step 3: Have Document Notarized, if Necessary

Depending on the state’s authentication requirements, documents may need to be notarized by a Notary Public. Most Secretary of State Offices include a statewide list of notaries on their websites.

www.firstgov.gov Home Page > A-Z Agency Index > S > State Agencies by Topic > State Government Home Pages.

* In some cases, the Clerk of Court is required to certify that the Notary’s term has not expired in the county where the Notary Public is commissioned.

Step 4: Obtain Signature and Seal from State Secretary of State

The document must then be signed and sealed by the Secretary of State in the state where the Notary is located, certifying to the Notary’s current status. For contact information, visit the State Department’s List of State Authentication Authorities at: www.state.gov home page > About State Department tab > Bureaus & Offices > Alphabetical List under Bureaus & Offices > Authentication Division > Authentication Requirements > Secretaries of State (Authentication Offices)

Step 5: Obtain U.S. Department of State Authentication

Forward all documents to the U.S. Department of State at the following address:

Department of State Documents Authentication Office

518 23rd ST. N.W., SA-1, Columbia Plaza

Washington, D.C. 20520

TEL: (202) 647-5002 or 1-800-688-9889, FAX: (202) 663-3636

The Department of State Documents Authentication Office charges a fee of $6.00.

Step 6: Obtain Embassy/Consulate Authentication

Once the documents have been authenticated by the U.S. Department of State, bring the documents to the foreign embassy in the United States of the country requesting the documents, where they will do the final authentication.

Further Questions: U.S. Embassy – Bangkok, American Citizen Services at (66) 2-205-4049 or U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Consular Affairs, Office of American Citizen Services at (202) 647-5225, or (202) 647-5226.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thank you, ilyushin, for finding that for us. The embassy does not verify the documents are true; they only 'verify' that the American said they were true (and that is a selfserving statement).

And, it's a triple process to get the document certified: by the issuing institution (school), then by the state government, and then by the embassy. It depends upon the vagaries of each entity along the way. If I absolutely had to teach in Thailand and refused to go elsewhere, it would be worth the months and months (assuming I had top notch credentials in the first place) to get it done. For what, a job paying 60,000 when I could have stayed home and earned 129,887 baht per month plus benefits like medical care, union protection, and pension?

But again, thanks. And once somebody gets that card, will 40 baht and the card still get him a double latte espresso frapucchino at Starbucks in Mae Hong Son?

[ilyushin]

PB the card is reliable to check a registered teacher globally. The self serving statement under oath is legal. No need to go through the mill in the US.

More reliable and faster than agents. In 2001 I did a background check on myself and it told me I was free of civil and criminal charges in the US only and could not provide proper check on education and employment. I have been gone for more than 20 years so they really can't provide much for the fee.

A letter of conferred degree from your Uni and Interpol check for the job.

As I mentioned, I am not a teacher and don't know all the crap they have to go through, but my friends that teach at Chitlada, Thammasat, ABAC and other institutions use the ITIC and affidavits. Guess it works for some.

Another option

Office of Authentications

The Department of State, Authentications Office is responsible for signing and issuing certificates under the Seal of the U.S. Department of Sate (22 CFR, Part 131) providing authentication services to U.S. citizens and foreign nationals on documents that will be used overseas. This office receives a variety of documents from commercial organizations, private citizens, and officials of the Federal and State governments. Documents include but not limited to: company bylaws, powers of attorney, trademarks, diplomas, transcripts, distributorship agreements, articles of incorporation, good standing certificates, home studies, letters of reference etc. It also ensures that the requested information will serve in the interest of justice and is not contrary to U.S. policy.

Fees

The authentication fee is $7.00 per document. A personal/company check or money order made payable to the U.S. Department of State must be submitted with document. Visa and Mastercard are accepted for Walk-in Service only.

Mail Service

The Authentication of documents takes approximately 3 business days to process from time of receipt**. Please include a cover-letter (see example) with your name, telephone number, address and email address. Please indicate the name of the country where the document will be used. We suggest using a self-addressed stamped envelope for faster return of your documents. Documents received without a return evelope and postage will be returned through the State Department regular mail, which can result in a 2-3 week delay. You can use DHL, Fed/Ex, UPS and express mail services for faster receipt/return of your documents. However, you must enclose a prepaid airbill and envelope.

Mailing Address

U.S. Department of State

Authentications Office

518 23rd Street, N.W. SA-1

Washington, D.C. 20520

** U.S. Postal mail entering the U.S. Department of State must go through a screening process which may delay the time in which we will receive the document.

The Authentication Office will mail documents directly to the Foreign Embassy or Consulates if provided with a transmittal letter, fee, and a pre-addressed stamped envelope. Please enclose an additional pre-addressed stamped envelope for the embassy or consulate to return the document.

Ilyushin

[ilyushin]

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