Almost refused entry

[baansgr]

12 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

I have found the exact opposite to be the case.  Other than immigration and some amphoe-personnel (when trying to get married), I can think of only 2 Thais I've encountered who made me want to cuss, in several years here.  

 

Good for you..... Wait a while when the constant  being overcharged,  two tier pricing,  corruption, rudeness farang,  farang ,  fareang and realising you are at the bottom of everything kicks in you may have a different  view. 

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Good for you..... Wait a while when the constant  being overcharged,  two tier pricing,  corruption, rudeness farang,  farang ,  fareang and realising you are at the bottom of everything kicks in you may have a different  view. 

Corruption I have addressed - specific to officialdom.  Dual-tier pricing?  A bit, but much less than when I lived in other countries (Latin America, especially).  This bothers my wife (Thai) more than me, and she insists we shop elsewhere when this is encountered.

Yes, I am a "Farang" here - and always will be - because this is "Thailand" - a "Nation for the Thai People" (not people of European or other extraction).  I believe that all ethnic/cultural groups should have homelands where their interests are prioritized. 

 

In the context of this thread, foreign-capital spending is in the Thai people's interests - and all those I've spoken too agree 100% - provided we cannot buy their land, vote, etc.

[JackThompson]

15 hours ago, alex8912 said:

Then why can’t you go to ATM and take out 20k if needed? Even 10k if you have 10k on you?? 

Because it's not really about "does this person have money."  You not having "the cash" is merely used as an excuse to deny-entry to someone picked-out for this treatment.

[tubby johnson]

On 10/30/2018 at 5:58 PM, Aerosolist said:

The bank statement i had, showing more than 40k USD

A good accountant wouldn't keep 40k USD festering in a bank account, but would invest it: stocks, options, bonds, REITs, etc.

Put your money to work, make it earn bigger yields rather than the measly interest rates offered by banks.

[Aerosolist]

A good accountant wouldn't keep 40k USD festering in a bank account, but would invest it: stocks, options, bonds, REITs, etc.
Put your money to work, make it earn bigger yields rather than the measly interest rates offered by banks.

Its always good when u have money somewhere that you can quickly access.
Thats‘s why...



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[Just Weird]

On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 7:40 PM, Aerosolist said:

Honestly, when i was choosing the line, i took the one because of the nerdy looking lady at the counter. Small, cute, wearing glasses... but she was a real beast ????

Maybe you got a bit of an attitude because of your own attitude as demonstrated by that fatuous comment about the IO.

[Just Weird]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 12:59 PM, whitemouse said:

One thing would save all these people with plastic, but not carrying cash (most Westerners, by far) -  ATMs before passport control. It would be so simple, so logical, it will never work in this country!

Not so simple at all, that is beyond the control of Immigration Dept and IOs!    Is the area before Immigration considered to be Thailand, surely Thailand starts after the IOs desks?   Perhaps there are legal reasons for there being no ATMs in that location.  The ATMs belong to the banks, not Immigration, not the Government, the banks decide if it is worth their while installing ATMs.

[whitemouse]

2 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Not so simple at all, that is beyond the control of Immigration Dept and IOs!    Is the area before Immigration considered to be Thailand, surely Thailand starts after the IOs desks?   Perhaps there are legal reasons for there being no ATMs in that location.  The ATMs belong to the banks, not Immigration, not the Government, the banks decide if it is worth their while installing ATMs.

 

 

What if by some miracle current junta decrees ATM before IO? Junta = law, if they wanted, ATMs would be there. 

 

Point is, no one in their right mind believes tourist does not 500€, they chose to keep the leverage over arriving tourist, an excuse to deny entry.

[BritTim]

5 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Not so simple at all, that is beyond the control of Immigration Dept and IOs!    Is the area before Immigration considered to be Thailand, surely Thailand starts after the IOs desks?   Perhaps there are legal reasons for there being no ATMs in that location.  The ATMs belong to the banks, not Immigration, not the Government, the banks decide if it is worth their while installing ATMs.

If that were the reason, there would not be many ATMs after immigration for outgoing passengers. It is clear that the failure to provide ATMs before immigration is a deliberate decision to increase immigration officials' leverage with travelers who do not carry cash.

[Just Weird]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 3:41 PM, Aerosolist said:

 

I bet, that if you would have heard the conversation you would agree. Almost shouting for no reason, i mean whats the point in asking me 6 times the same question and every time getting a bit louder and more agressive, also she threw the bank statement back at me when i gave it to here. I would understand that if i acted like an idiot, but i just said yes and no and explained short and quick how it is in a very friendly way. Sorry but that is unprofessional indeed.

Almost refused: it was almost, but maybe not the best title, sorry. Didnt want to blow the whole thing up, if this is the impression.
 

 

"... i mean whats the point in asking me 6 times the same question and every time getting a bit louder and more aggressive...Sorry but that is unprofessional indeed."

It is not unprofessional, quite the opposite, in fact!   The point is to see if you give the same answers, it's a very common interview technique.  If you don't give the same answers to the same questions under pressure then you're probably lying.

 

Perhaps it's time for you to accept that you raised some red flags to the IO whose job it is to look out for them.  You're young, single with no money at all on you and you visit Thailand regularly for months on end and you have/had a condo contract!   Most people doing that are definitely not tourists in the usual sense of the word and would probably be working here.  The IO was clearly right to question you; that you didn't like being questioned is your problem, not hers.

[MARK74]

4 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If that were the reason, there would not be many ATMs after immigration for outgoing passengers. It is clear that the failure to provide ATMs before immigration is a deliberate decision to increase immigration officials' leverage with travelers who do not carry cash.

the irony being that those 'tourists' who even know about the cash rule and therefore carry it are probably the most likely to be the ones staying longer term and potentially working

[Just Weird]

9 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If that were the reason, there would not be many ATMs after immigration for outgoing passengers. It is clear that the failure to provide ATMs before immigration is a deliberate decision to increase immigration officials' leverage with travelers who do not carry cash.

You could well be right with your first comment. but it nowhere near clear that the failure to provide ATMs before immigration is a deliberate decision to increase immigration officials' leverage with travelers who do not carry cash. 

 

IOs do not need any "leverage" (are they making anything from refusing entry?), they are what are known as "competent officials" and it is their decision alone, via authority given to them when they get the job, about who is allowed entry to the country.

[Just Weird]

25 minutes ago, whitemouse said:

 

 

What if by some miracle current junta decrees ATM before IO? Junta = law, if they wanted, ATMs would be there. 

 

Point is, no one in their right mind believes tourist does not 500€, they chose to keep the leverage over arriving tourist, an excuse to deny entry.

Can you give one rational reason for any IO to need "leverage" and to deny entry to a visitor who does not meet the requirements for entry?

 

What benefit is it to the IO to deny entry to a legitimate tourist/visitor?  Apart from doing the job that they are paid to do it makes no difference whatsoever to the IO if a visitor is denied entry.

[Aerosolist]

"... i mean whats the point in asking me 6 times the same question and every time getting a bit louder and more aggressive...Sorry but that is unprofessional indeed."
It is not unprofessional, quite the opposite, in fact!   The point is to see if you give the same answers, it's a very common interview technique.  If you don't give the same answers to the same questions under pressure then you're probably lying.
 
Perhaps it's time for you to accept that you raised some red flags to the IO whose job it is to look out for them.  You're young, single with no money at all on you and you visit Thailand regularly for months on end and you have/had a condo contract!   Most people doing that are definitely not tourists in the usual sense of the word and would probably be working here.  The IO was clearly right to question you; that you didn't like being questioned is your problem, not hers.

I understood the strategy of the interview technique. But in my oppinion this should not be used for immigration purposes when someone wants to enter the country as a tourist.
I think there are hundreds of smarter ways to catch really those who are illegally working.

But as written, i think she is just following rules from the big boss there.

At least they try to improve something and i think it goes in the right direction, just not yet perfectly done at all.

My message i wanted to give with my post: be prepared if you are in a similar situation as i am, and have that 20k ready and all necessary stuff and keep ur nerves when you get questioned.
And i also wanted to see/read what other people think about the whole thing.



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[Aerosolist]

Maybe you got a bit of an attitude because of your own attitude as demonstrated by that fatuous comment about the IO.

Yea sorry, was maybe a bit to sarcastic, but also not really seriously meant with „beast“.



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[persimmon]

Remember IO s have a difficult job to do - dealing with an endless stream of foreigners .Maybe the set-up is too confrontational ie. standing directly in front of the IO staring at them and waiting with no option to speak .

 

The middle aged lady IO who stamped me in last year was very nice - no hint of anti-foreigner attitude.

[balo]

Be prepared to get denied entry this time my Swiss friend. Your age and your visa history is now in their computer network .   

It doesn't matter if you bring 20k or not. The last few months with a new immigration boss has turned things upside down , both for foreigners arriving on tourist visas and retirement. 

 

You mentioned your parents living here, they are retired? So I would bring all the documents possible and be prepared for the worst .  

The truth is they don't like young guys coming here on tourist visas anymore. You could be a millionaire and they couldn't care less. Good luck. 

 

 

[elviajero]

50 minutes ago, balo said:

The last few months with a new immigration boss has turned things upside down , both for foreigners arriving on tourist visas and retirement. 

He only started last month! 

 

The clampdown on long term tourists has been as been ongoing for years, and I’m not aware of any problems for retirees entering.

[Development at Khaoyai]

An alarming tale!  In many peoples'  experience, some of the female I.O's do seem to be more intent on interrogating tourists coming in with a visa or V.E, than their male counterparts !

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, Development at Khaoyai said:

An alarming tale!  In many peoples'  experience, some of the female I.O's do seem to be more intent on interrogating tourists coming in with a visa or V.E, than their male counterparts !

What percentage of female to male officers are there?

 

A very relevant question no one asks?

[Aerosolist]

Just as info:
I’ve entered now with a tourist visa without being asked a single question.
It also looked like they had improved quite some things. There were like the double of the counters open than they used to have. Almost no waiting time.


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[moontang]

6 minutes ago, Aerosolist said:

Just as info:
I’ve entered now with a tourist visa without being asked a single question.
It also looked like they had improved quite some things. There were like the double of the counters open than they used to have. Almost no waiting time.


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Good for you..not all suffer, when there is a decline in numbers.  We're you at Swampy?

[JackThompson]

22 hours ago, Aerosolist said:

Just as info:
I’ve entered now with a tourist visa without being asked a single question.
It also looked like they had improved quite some things. There were like the double of the counters open than they used to have. Almost no waiting time.

One has "good odds" entering with a Tourist Visa at the Bangkok airports.  We hear about the rejections, but don't know the odds.

We hear of no rejections (except one with multiple overstays) at any land-border other than Poipet/Aranya for years.  I don't like playing a game with odds. 

To each their own, whether the extra hassle of entering by land, then flying domestic or taking an overnight bus, is worth not having to play a game of "roulette to enter" with airport-immigration.

Edited November 26, 2018 by JackThompson

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Not so simple at all, that is beyond the control of Immigration Dept and IOs!    Is the area before Immigration considered to be Thailand, surely Thailand starts after the IOs desks?   Perhaps there are legal reasons for there being no ATMs in that location.  The ATMs belong to the banks, not Immigration, not the Government, the banks decide if it is worth their while installing ATMs.

Considered to be Thailand? Stupid. It is a desk where entries of Aliens are processed. The banks can put ATMs wherever they can lease the space. So how many people would use use them there?


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[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

On 11/2/2018 at 3:56 PM, Just Weird said:

Not so simple at all, that is beyond the control of Immigration Dept and IOs!    Is the area before Immigration considered to be Thailand, surely Thailand starts after the IOs desks?   Perhaps there are legal reasons for there being no ATMs in that location.  The ATMs belong to the banks, not Immigration, not the Government, the banks decide if it is worth their while installing ATMs.

Considered to be Thailand? Stupid. It is a desk where entries of Aliens are processed. The banks can put ATMs wherever they can lease the space. So how many people would use use them there?

ATMs are present "airside" outgoing, but not incoming - only a few feet beyond the immigration-checkpoint.  I cannot think of any reason this would be the case, other than immigration not wanting them to be accessible to incoming passengers. 

 

If immigration really cared if people "had access" to 20K Baht cash, they would request the machines be placed a few feet over - accessible incoming-airside.  Passengers not able to "show the money" could then visit an ATM, and re-enter the end of the queue. 

 

The issue is somewhat moot, at this point, because immigration at the airports has not been reported to be asking to see the money as often, and begun simply claiming unpublished-rules about "how many days in Thailand" over years are sufficient reason to deny-entry.

Edited November 26, 2018 by JackThompson

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Once an Airport IO decided a so-called (“tourist with valid visa or visa exempt”) is not getting in that is it. Proffer money they would just ignore it. Then they make something up and put you in the hole. So having ATMs airside would not help and few people would use them making it a waste of money for Banks.

The idea that the area of the airport before the Immigration counters “not Thailand” is silly.
A notion bandied about from the barstool

[kkerry]

I remember being in Jakarta Airport a few years back, when a tourist visa on arrival had to be paid for either in USD or IR. Airport staff would escort foreigners without the correct currency past the immigration desks and outside to the ATMs, let them withdraw cash, take them back inside to the visa window to buy their visa before being processed by immigration.

 

Seemed a pretty sensible way of doing things unlike Thailand where you can have a million baht in your bank account but aren't allowed to access it at an ATM you can almost touch. Arriving with next to no cash is not unusual these days for many people who use ATMs and credit cards for everything. Not allowing people access to an ATM in 2018 seems pretty silly. Dodgy people trying to game the system have probably been schooled in saying all the right things and likely have 20k baht on them anyway. Not unlike the Thai girls who go to Singapore for a working holiday...

 

Closest I came to being asked for 20k was when I got my dates wrong and returned to DMK a few days after my Non-O expired. IO looked more and more concerned as he checked every page of my passport. Asked when I was leaving again so I handed over my ticket for a flight out in a few weeks time. He was happy with that but I had 20k on me just in case only because of what I had read here, wouldn't have known to otherwise.

[seancbk]

14 hours ago, JackThompson said:

ATMs are present "airside" outgoing, but not incoming - only a few feet beyond the immigration-checkpoint.  I cannot think of any reason this would be the case, other than immigration not wanting them to be accessible to incoming passengers. 

 

 

Don Mueang doesn't seem to have any ATMs airside when you are leaving, at least none I've been able to find.  Several times I've forgotten to withdraw cash before heading to the airport and haven't been able to get cash before leaving the Kingdom.  

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, seancbk said:

Don Mueang doesn't seem to have any ATMs airside when you are leaving, at least none I've been able to find.  Several times I've forgotten to withdraw cash before heading to the airport and haven't been able to get cash before leaving the Kingdom.  

Perhaps this has changed, or varies by departure-area.  Some who were denied-entry for not having the cash reported taking out the 20K baht there, to use when coming right back in.

[seancbk]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

1 hour ago, seancbk said:

Don Mueang doesn't seem to have any ATMs airside when you are leaving, at least none I've been able to find.  Several times I've forgotten to withdraw cash before heading to the airport and haven't been able to get cash before leaving the Kingdom.  

Perhaps this has changed, or varies by departure-area.  Some who were denied-entry for not having the cash reported taking out the 20K baht there, to use when coming right back in.

 

There is only one departure area after you've gone through customs and there are only money changers through there.   Never seen an ATM and I use DM to fly in/out regularly.

 

It is possible I've missed the machines or they've been put there in the last 3 months.