Chinese tourists still number one visitors to Phuket

[Bundooman]

I just happened to be in Chiangmai yesterday for a particular reason and I drove mu motorbike around the moat area. I saw a fair number of westerners , but I saw very few Chinese tourists and usually, in the past, I have seen many, many of them.

Empty, ……………..is the word that springs to mind! 

[NamKangMan]

39 minutes ago, White Christmas13 said:

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism-income-Thailand.asp

 

Thanks for the link.  It's more informative.  I do note it's over 2 years old.

 

Here's a more recent article.  You will see Chinese numbers are down, as well as revenue from them.

 

I agree the Chinese come here in big numbers.  However, I dispute the majority of these Chinese tourists spend the amount, per day, in USD, that the graph in your article indicates.  I say this even retrospectively, for 2016.

 

The "zero baht tourists" debate is a little off topic, but should be mentioned.  I would like to know if the flights and accommodation are included in the daily spend figures.  In any case, if the daily spend it spent in Chinese businesses Eg. restaurants, hotels etc, then the profits are repatriated back to China, with very little remaining in the Phuket / Thailand economy, except for some employment for cheap 300 baht minimum wage Thai staff. 

 

Now, as I mentioned, I do see the odd wealthy Chinese here, but question if they spend soooooooo much here, as to make up for the vast majority of Chinese that spend sooooooooo little here.

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/thailand-tourist-arrivals-still-climbing-69021.php

 

The top 10 tourist arrivals markets comprised of: China (-14.89%)

 

Of all the 10 revenue markets just two recorded declines in September. China generated B36.8bn in revenue, down 11.49%

 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by NamKangMan

[Kopitiam]

2 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I'm a "long term stayer" but classified as a tourist. 

How do you know TAT classified you as "tourist"?  In your Post#21 you said "Thus no one will ever know the truth. Right?"

[simoh1490]

41 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

I just happened to be in Chiangmai yesterday for a particular reason and I drove mu motorbike around the moat area. I saw a fair number of westerners , but I saw very few Chinese tourists and usually, in the past, I have seen many, many of them.

Empty, ……………..is the word that springs to mind! 

I live in Chiang Mai, Chinese tourists typically don't walk around the moat on a hot day! Try going to Walking Street on a Sunday evening and see how many there are, try going to Jia Tong Heng restaurant in the evening and see how many hundred you can see, come to my house, stand in the garden and shout ni hao and see how many people respond.

[NamKangMan]

18 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

How do you know TAT classified you as "tourist"?  In your Post#21 you said "Thus no one will ever know the truth. Right?"

 

Ahhhh, because I enter on a tourist visa, obtained from a Thai Consulate, in a nearby country.  ????

 

Question still remains, how does the TAT differentiate between a Chinese "tour group" and a Chinese "FIT tour group?" 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by NamKangMan

[Bundooman]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

I live in Chiang Mai, Chinese tourists typically don't walk around the moat on a hot day! Try going to Walking Street on a Sunday evening and see how many there are, try going to Jia Tong Heng restaurant in the evening and see how many hundred you can see, come to my house, stand in the garden and shout ni hao and see how many people respond.

Learn to read. - I didn't mention the time of day. I said YESTERDAY! Understand? English language "yesterday'.

 

I hope your record of 5,751 posts in one year, since joining this forum  are more accurate than this one.

 

No. I have no wish to visit your home to see how many hundred come to your house and shout 'nee-heow'!  Ambiguity is a dreadful affliction!

 

Walking street  on a Sunday evening has been a no-no for the past 14 years. It is crowded with locals and foreigners.

 

Wonderful that you are, however, perceptive enough that you can identify the difference between Thais/Koreans/Japanese/ Westerners and even dogs. Well done - keep it up.

 

Do you say 'nee-heow' to all of them?

 

Your Post 5,752 now coming up?

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, Bundooman said:

Learn to read. - I didn't mention the time of day. I said YESTERDAY! Understand? English language "yesterday'.

 

I hope your record of 5,751 posts in one year, since joining this forum  are more accurate than this one.

 

No. I have no wish to visit your home to see how many hundred come to your house and shout 'nee-heow'!  Ambiguity is a dreadful affliction!

 

Walking street  on a Sunday evening has been a no-no for the past 14 years. It is crowded with locals and foreigners.

 

Wonderful that you are, however, perceptive enough that you can identify the difference between Thais/Koreans/Japanese/ Westerners and even dogs. Well done - keep it up.

 

Do you say 'nee-heow' to all of them?

 

Your Post 5,752 now coming up?

I joined the forum in 2007, my name was chiangmai which I then purposefully changed to simoh1490, in order to get away from idiots, not a strategy that is successful all the time! Welcome to my ignore list, life is too short.

Edited November 18, 2018 by simoh1490

[Kopitiam]

3 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Ahhhh, because I enter on a tourist visa, obtained from a Thai Consulate, in a nearby country.  ????

 

Question still remains, how does the TAT differentiate between a Chinese "tour group" and a Chinese "FIT tour group?" 

 

 

 

Arrr, no one here can give you an answer.

[simoh1490]

3 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Ahhhh, because I enter on a tourist visa, obtained from a Thai Consulate, in a nearby country.  ????

 

Question still remains, how does the TAT differentiate between a Chinese "tour group" and a Chinese "FIT tour group?" 

 

 

 

I think the answer probably has something to do with passengers arriving on LCC's and those arriving via scheduled airlines. Another part of the answer may also have to do with the visa type since tour groups can be distinguished from independent travellers, hence the question that is asked, "are you travelling as part of a group". 

 

EDIT: here's the Thai equivelent: http://thaivisabd.com/group-travel-visa/

Edited November 18, 2018 by simoh1490

[NamKangMan]

4 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

Arrr, no one here can give you an answer.

 

 

Hence, my previous post.

 

Chinese "FIT groups" can be a fictitious percentage figure that the TAT make up out of the Chinese "tour group" figures. 

 

"Rubbery figures" is one thing, but not even stating the criteria as to how they classify the tourists is typical TAT making it up to suit themselves. 

[simoh1490]

10 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

 

Hence, my previous post.

 

Chinese "FIT groups" can be a fictitious percentage figure that the TAT make up out of the Chinese "tour group" figures. 

 

"Rubbery figures" is one thing, but not even stating the criteria as to how they classify the tourists is typical TAT making it up to suit themselves. 

Why should they state how they classify groups, or, maybe they do and we just don't see it, assuming it's fictitious or false is a step too far for me - as said above, Thailand operates tour group visa's, presumably China does also..

[GeorgeCross]

4 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

Thanks for the link.  It's more informative.  I do note it's over 2 years old.

 

Here's a more recent article.  You will see Chinese numbers are down, as well as revenue from them.

 

I agree the Chinese come here in big numbers.  However, I dispute the majority of these Chinese tourists spend the amount, per day, in USD, that the graph in your article indicates.  I say this even retrospectively, for 2016.

 

The "zero baht tourists" debate is a little off topic, but should be mentioned.  I would like to know if the flights and accommodation are included in the daily spend figures.  In any case, if the daily spend it spent in Chinese businesses Eg. restaurants, hotels etc, then the profits are repatriated back to China, with very little remaining in the Phuket / Thailand economy, except for some employment for cheap 300 baht minimum wage Thai staff. 

 

Now, as I mentioned, I do see the odd wealthy Chinese here, but question if they spend soooooooo much here, as to make up for the vast majority of Chinese that spend sooooooooo little here.

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/thailand-tourist-arrivals-still-climbing-69021.php

 

The top 10 tourist arrivals markets comprised of: China (-14.89%)

 

Of all the 10 revenue markets just two recorded declines in September. China generated B36.8bn in revenue, down 11.49%

 

 

 

i think when they calculate the spend it includes hotel charge and also flight averaged out per day. so package stays can look quite high averaged out

[Kopitiam]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Why should they state how they classify groups, or, maybe they do and we just don't see it, assuming it's fictitious or false is a step too far for me - as said above, Thailand operates tour group visa's, presumably China does also..

You all are just speculating here.  If TAT wants to be clear with their figures I am sure they can do it.  Having vague criteria gives them more room to massage the numbers. TIT.

[Ctkong]

On 11/16/2018 at 5:05 PM, Kopitiam said:

You are not visiting the right places to see how the Chinese spend big time.  I went to the Hanuman World 3 days ago and 80% of the visitors were Chinese in small groups that came from different hotels.  Last week, I brought a visitor to the Rawai sea gypsy place for dinner and the patrons of most of the restaurants there were Chinese.  Many groups bought their seafood from the stalls across the lane and gave them to the restaurants to cook.  They may not be spending big in the bars like the western tourists but they do spend, especially those classified as "FIT groups".

 Good observation. I salute you. What you said about the Chinese , I had also seen with my own eyes... even in places like Bali. Chinese do not splurge like some western people but they do spend big if they want to.

 

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, Ctkong said:

 Good observation. I salute you. What you said about the Chinese , I had also seen with my own eyes... even in places like Bali. Chinese do not splurge like some western people but they do spend big if they want to.

 

 

"Chinese do not splurge like some western people but they do spend big if they want to." - looks like Thailand gets the Chinese that don't want to spend big.  ????

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

6 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Why should they state how they classify groups, or, maybe they do and we just don't see it, assuming it's fictitious or false is a step too far for me - as said above, Thailand operates tour group visa's, presumably China does also..

 

"Why should they state how they classify groups" - the question is, why shouldn't they?  After all, they are the ones making the press release. 

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"Why should they state how they classify groups" - the question is, why shouldn't they?  After all, they are the ones making the press release. 

This isn't the UK where everyone has to prove their answers, 99.9% of the population wouldn't know and doesn't care, why should they show their calculations just to satisfy a handful of farangs on the likes of TVF. 

[The Deerhunter]

On 11/17/2018 at 10:53 AM, Tchooptip said:

Thai Visa undoubtedly the hub of negative thinkers about everything as far as Thailand is concerned 

Chinese tourists spent $292 billion (£224 billion) abroad in 2015, nearly three times as much as the second biggest spenders, the Americans, and nearly five times as much as Britons abroad. That’s roughly the same as the number of Americans (66 million) who travelled internationally in 2016. But here’s a difference: the Chinese are spending far more than anyone else.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/china/how-chinese-tourists-travel-etiquette-and-money/

Exactly. It seems that two sides of this conversation always dominate these posts. Quotes from TAT telling us that there's more tourists every year and quotes from the negative Thai Visa posters saying the tourists have all gone away.  I think I will avoid looking at any more threads on this subject.  My personal take is that the Chinese tourism market must slowly mature and the sheep who follow the flag are on their first trip out of China.  After that experience and seeing the real world, on their next time many will want to do it differently. Wouldn't you?

[NamKangMan]

10 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

This isn't the UK where everyone has to prove their answers, 99.9% of the population wouldn't know and doesn't care, why should they show their calculations just to satisfy a handful of farangs on the likes of TVF. 

 

"why should they show their calculations" - I asked for how they classify or distinguish a Chinese "FIT group" from a Chinese "tour group."  An answer they do not supply, therefore an answer which we will never know. 

 

"99.9% of the population wouldn't know and doesn't care" - really????

 

You want some calculations, have a look at these.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

 

"Estimates of tourism receipts directly contributing to the Thai GDP of 12 trillion baht range from 9 percent (one trillion baht) (2013) to 17.7 percent (2.53 trillion baht) in 2016.^[1][2] When including indirect travel and tourism receipts, the 2014 total is estimated to have accounted for 19.3 percent (2.3 trillion baht) of Thailand's GDP.^[3]:1"

 

https://www.tatnews.org/2016/04/thai-tourism-industry-created-jobs-for-6-2-million-people-in-2013-mots-report-shows/

 

"The Thai tourism industry generated 6.2 million jobs in 2013, according to the latest annual report of the Ministry of Tourism and Sports."

 

Thailand is experiencing record household debt.

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/households-debt-to-gdp

 

"Household debt in Thailand increased to 68.20 percent of GDP in the first quarter of 2018."

 

 

So, the Thai tourism industry can make up anywhere from 10% to 20% of Thailand's GDP, and create 6.2 million jobs, whilst Thai's are carrying record household debt, yet, "99.9% of the population wouldn't know and doesn't care." ????

 

I am sure even low paid staff in the industry know when their place of employment is quiet, and worry they might not have a job next month, and how they are going to pay their bills, just the same as people in another country, working in an industry experiencing a downturn, but according to YOU, they "don't know" and "don't care."  Yeah, right. 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by NamKangMan

[NamKangMan]

3 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Exactly. It seems that two sides of this conversation always dominate these posts. Quotes from TAT telling us that there's more tourists every year and quotes from the negative Thai Visa posters saying the tourists have all gone away.  I think I will avoid looking at any more threads on this subject.  My personal take is that the Chinese tourism market must slowly mature and the sheep who follow the flag are on their first trip out of China.  After that experience and seeing the real world, on their next time many will want to do it differently. Wouldn't you?

 

You are focusing on TAT's arrival numbers, as they hoped you would do.  I agree, tourist numbers are up. 

 

The "conversation" is about whether the corresponding "spend" that is, revenue generated from the current tourist market, matches their big numbers. 

 

I suggest these big numbers of Chinese are not spending as much as the TAT would like to have readers believe, not because I simply don't believe the TAT, but I simply don't see Chinese tourists spending a lot of money here, plus, my observations of many businesses that are quiet, or have ceased trading here. 

 

Once again, I will not go into the "zero baht tourists" issue, which would see profits from those Chinese who do spend, repatriated back to China, so Thailand sees very little out of the cheap Chinese travelers, and also the more wealthy Chinese travelers. 

 

"on their next time many will want to do it differently" - What makes you think the cheaper Chinese tourists will have the financial resources to return to Phuket as independent tourists, and what makes you think a wealthy Chinese tourists will return to Phuket at all?

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"why should they show their calculations" - I asked for how they classify or distinguish a Chinese "FIT group" from a Chinese "tour group."  An answer they do not supply, therefore an answer which we will never know. 

 

"99.9% of the population wouldn't know and doesn't care" - really????

 

You want some calculations, have a look at these.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

 

"Estimates of tourism receipts directly contributing to the Thai GDP of 12 trillion baht range from 9 percent (one trillion baht) (2013) to 17.7 percent (2.53 trillion baht) in 2016.^[1][2] When including indirect travel and tourism receipts, the 2014 total is estimated to have accounted for 19.3 percent (2.3 trillion baht) of Thailand's GDP.^[3]:1"

 

https://www.tatnews.org/2016/04/thai-tourism-industry-created-jobs-for-6-2-million-people-in-2013-mots-report-shows/

 

"The Thai tourism industry generated 6.2 million jobs in 2013, according to the latest annual report of the Ministry of Tourism and Sports."

 

Thailand is experiencing record household debt.

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/households-debt-to-gdp

 

"Household debt in Thailand increased to 68.20 percent of GDP in the first quarter of 2018."

 

 

So, the Thai tourism industry can make up anywhere from 10% to 20% of Thailand's GDP, and create 6.2 million jobs, whilst Thai's are carrying record household debt, yet, "99.9% of the population wouldn't know and doesn't care." ????

 

I am sure even low paid staff in the industry know when their place of employment is quiet, and worry they might not have a job next month, and how they are going to pay their bills, just the same as people in another country, working in an industry experiencing a downturn, but according to YOU, they "don't know" and "don't care."  Yeah, right. 

 

 

Like the average Thai is concerned or even thinks about whether the Chinese customer is a package tour member or a FIT, nor how TATA calculates those entities, laughable.

 

It's not clear why you've gone off on a tangent about Thai GDP but here's a piece which may help you:

 

  "For the entire year, KResearch expects the ratio of household debt to GDP may fall to somewhere between 76.5-77.5 percent (median rate – 77.0 percent), against the 78.0-percent ratio recorded in 2017, mainly due to the higher growth of nominal GDP than the growth of the outstanding household debt". https://kasikornresearch.com/en/analysis/k-econ/economy/Pages/y3750.aspx

 

 

[The Deerhunter]

6 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

You are focusing on TAT's arrival numbers, as they hoped you would do.  I agree, tourist numbers are up. 

 

The "conversation" is about whether the corresponding "spend" that is, revenue generated from the current tourist market, matches their big numbers. 

 

I suggest these big numbers of Chinese are not spending as much as the TAT would like to have readers believe, not because I simply don't believe the TAT, but I simply don't see Chinese tourists spending a lot of money here, plus, my observations of many businesses that are quiet, or have ceased trading here. 

 

Once again, I will not go into the "zero baht tourists" issue, which would see profits from those Chinese who do spend, repatriated back to China, so Thailand sees very little out of the cheap Chinese travelers, and also the more wealthy Chinese travelers. 

 

"on their next time many will want to do it differently" - What makes you think the cheaper Chinese tourists will have the financial resources to return to Phuket as independent tourists, and what makes you think a wealthy Chinese tourists will return to Phuket at all?

MY business partner is back in Phuket the last week after an absence of 4 months and he told me today that there are very few Chinese there at the moment.    But the Russians are back in big numbers.   And he is not sure which he least prefers.

[Derek B]

FIT groups (Free and Independent Travellers)........................that's the way to go.

Without safety on the water - or over it in the case of the Aussie who free fell 70m from a speed boat parasail - some Thai locations are bound to suffer for sure. Same as coach accidents in main land China.

[NamKangMan]

On 11/19/2018 at 5:34 PM, simoh1490 said:

Like the average Thai is concerned or even thinks about whether the Chinese customer is a package tour member or a FIT, nor how TATA calculates those entities, laughable.

 

It's not clear why you've gone off on a tangent about Thai GDP but here's a piece which may help you:

 

  "For the entire year, KResearch expects the ratio of household debt to GDP may fall to somewhere between 76.5-77.5 percent (median rate – 77.0 percent), against the 78.0-percent ratio recorded in 2017, mainly due to the higher growth of nominal GDP than the growth of the outstanding household debt". https://kasikornresearch.com/en/analysis/k-econ/economy/Pages/y3750.aspx

 

 

 

"Like the average Thai is concerned or even thinks about whether the Chinese customer is a package tour member or a FIT" - I agree.  They don't care if the customers are Chinese, Russian, Western, Martian, Pink, Blue, Purple - as long as they SPEND MONEY which creates employment so they, "Somchai" and "Noi" can earn a salary and pay their bills / debt, and raise their kids and / or support their parents.

 

The Chinese are the majority of tourists here now, and they DO NOT SPEND MONEY like the previous demographic of tourists, the westerners, did.

 

Your link is a Kasikorn "projection."  It may or may not happen.  Let's say their projection takes place, if you look at the below link you will see Thailand's household debt is still at record levels, even IF Kasikorn's projected decrease materializes. 

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/households-debt-to-gdp

 

The employment figure I linked to previously doesn't even take into account all the "illegitimate" employment the tourism industry provides in Thailand, and all the employment that is "off the books."  See all those empty bars on Bangla, Thai girls used to earn a salary by working in them.  Do you think those girls are working in a Chinese bar somewhere?

 

Here's an easy example for you.  Let's say a bar / restaurant / guest house, for westerners, employs 10 Thai staff.  Cooks, cleaners, waitresses, cashier etc.  That establishment closes down as the western market dries up here, and also because the establishment does not appeal to Chinese tourists, who may have no intention of trying a Sunday roast, for example.  The staff are now unemployed, but still have bills to pay. 

 

Now, there are restaurants appealing to the Chinese, but as we know, many of them eat instant noodles from 7/11, or buy something to eat at a supermarket.  For the staff that did work in the hospitality sector, not all of them can now go and work in the retail sector.

 

So what becomes of these unemployed hospitality staff?  What do they do? 

 

In relation to Phuket, rather than improving the island, and luring back the diverse and multicultural western market, they put all their eggs into the Chinese basket.  Crazy.

 

Look at the below link for how many Thai's are turning to loan sharks to survive.  (2016)

 

https://www.thailand-business-news.com/banking/53291-household-debts-hit-highest-8-years-filling-pockets-thai-loan-sharks.html

 

"And even more worrying, loan sharks are getting the lion share of households debt in Thailand : around 60%."

 

 

[NamKangMan]

17 hours ago, Derek B said:

FIT groups (Free and Independent Travellers)........................that's the way to go.

Without safety on the water - or over it in the case of the Aussie who free fell 70m from a speed boat parasail - some Thai locations are bound to suffer for sure. Same as coach accidents in main land China.

 

Down 15% at the time of publishing, probably a further drop since then.

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/15-of-phukets-advanced-bookings-cancelled

[simoh1490]

6 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"Like the average Thai is concerned or even thinks about whether the Chinese customer is a package tour member or a FIT" - I agree.  They don't care if the customers are Chinese, Russian, Western, Martian, Pink, Blue, Purple - as long as they SPEND MONEY which creates employment so they, "Somchai" and "Noi" can earn a salary and pay their bills / debt, and raise their kids and / or support their parents.

 

The Chinese are the majority of tourists here now, and they DO NOT SPEND MONEY like the previous demographic of tourists, the westerners, did.

 

Your link is a Kasikorn "projection."  It may or may not happen.  Let's say their projection takes place, if you look at the below link you will see Thailand's household debt is still at record levels, even IF Kasikorn's projected decrease materializes. 

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/households-debt-to-gdp

 

The employment figure I linked to previously doesn't even take into account all the "illegitimate" employment the tourism industry provides in Thailand, and all the employment that is "off the books."  See all those empty bars on Bangla, Thai girls used to earn a salary by working in them.  Do you think those girls are working in a Chinese bar somewhere?

 

Here's an easy example for you.  Let's say a bar / restaurant / guest house, for westerners, employs 10 Thai staff.  Cooks, cleaners, waitresses, cashier etc.  That establishment closes down as the western market dries up here, and also because the establishment does not appeal to Chinese tourists, who may have no intention of trying a Sunday roast, for example.  The staff are now unemployed, but still have bills to pay. 

 

Now, there are restaurants appealing to the Chinese, but as we know, many of them eat instant noodles from 7/11, or buy something to eat at a supermarket.  For the staff that did work in the hospitality sector, not all of them can now go and work in the retail sector.

 

So what becomes of these unemployed hospitality staff?  What do they do? 

 

In relation to Phuket, rather than improving the island, and luring back the diverse and multicultural western market, they put all their eggs into the Chinese basket.  Crazy.

 

Look at the below link for how many Thai's are turning to loan sharks to survive.  (2016)

 

https://www.thailand-business-news.com/banking/53291-household-debts-hit-highest-8-years-filling-pockets-thai-loan-sharks.html

 

"And even more worrying, loan sharks are getting the lion share of households debt in Thailand : around 60%."

 

 

"The Chinese are the majority of tourists here now, and they DO NOT SPEND MONEY like the previous demographic of tourists, the westerners, did".

 

Absolutely untrue...I didn't read the rest of what you wrote because it didn't seem that relevant.

 

My wife used to work for Chedi Chiang Mai, later this became Anantara, she was there for around six years and we still have close friends who continue to work there. At any point in time the guest mix was typically over 70% Chinese, often it was much higher and rooms there sold for up to 20k a night, even the bottom end room rates were over 5k Baht (data as of up to two years ago). In previous threads some years ago on this subject I relayed stories of where Chinese guests would buy 200/300k Baht of goods in the Boutique Shop at the hotel and have the hotel ship everything back to the guests home in China...these are the FITS, admittedly the top end but there are many many such hotels in Chiang Mai where that scenario is repeated. Everyone spots the tour groups, very few Westerners are able to spot the FITS, to say they don't spend money is naive and in light of the statistics and first-hand stories, very silly.

[NamKangMan]

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

"The Chinese are the majority of tourists here now, and they DO NOT SPEND MONEY like the previous demographic of tourists, the westerners, did".

 

Absolutely untrue...I didn't read the rest of what you wrote because it didn't seem that relevant.

 

My wife used to work for Chedi Chiang Mai, later this became Anantara, she was there for around six years and we still have close friends who continue to work there. At any point in time the guest mix was typically over 70% Chinese, often it was much higher and rooms there sold for up to 20k a night, even the bottom end room rates were over 5k Baht (data as of up to two years ago). In previous threads some years ago on this subject I relayed stories of where Chinese guests would buy 200/300k Baht of goods in the Boutique Shop at the hotel and have the hotel ship everything back to the guests home in China...these are the FITS, admittedly the top end but there are many many such hotels in Chiang Mai where that scenario is repeated. Everyone spots the tour groups, very few Westerners are able to spot the FITS, to say they don't spend money is naive and in light of the statistics and first-hand stories, very silly.

 

And you think "the FIT's" are plentiful on Phuket?  Give me a break.

 

I frequently visa run to Vietnam, where there are casinos.  In Ho Chi Minh City I see the wealthy Chinese.  I don't gamble, but have visited The Grand Ho Tram Strip a few times.  I know how to spot a wealthy Chinese, so don't say I am unable to spot them. 

 

When's the last time you have seen them in a casino in the region, or in the main commercial area of a capital city????

 

The Chinese on Phuket are no where near what other countries are getting by way of wealthy Chinese.

 

Why would a wealthy Chinese come here?  Look at the infrastructure, the disorganization, the lack of safety standards, the roads, litter, and poor beach water quality etc etc.

 

I haven't been to Chiang Mai for a while.  Even if what you say is true, and by your own admission, "these are the FITS, admittedly the top end" so now you are cutting the percentage of FITS from "top end" and "lower end" FITS, and that after the FITS percentage has already been cut out of Chinese "tour groups" by the TAT with a formula they will not reveal. 

 

So, just what percentage of "high end" FITS do you think Phuket is getting?  Don't answer, because for the above reason none of us can ever know. 

 

All I know is what I see here, and in Vietnam, and Phuket must be getting the "cheap Charlie FITS" if any FITS at all.    ????

[simoh1490]

35 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

And you think "the FIT's" are plentiful on Phuket?  Give me a break.

 

I frequently visa run to Vietnam, where there are casinos.  In Ho Chi Minh City I see the wealthy Chinese.  I don't gamble, but have visited The Grand Ho Tram Strip a few times.  I know how to spot a wealthy Chinese, so don't say I am unable to spot them. 

 

When's the last time you have seen them in a casino in the region, or in the main commercial area of a capital city????

 

The Chinese on Phuket are no where near what other countries are getting by way of wealthy Chinese.

 

Why would a wealthy Chinese come here?  Look at the infrastructure, the disorganization, the lack of safety standards, the roads, litter, and poor beach water quality etc etc.

 

I haven't been to Chiang Mai for a while.  Even if what you say is true, and by your own admission, "these are the FITS, admittedly the top end" so now you are cutting the percentage of FITS from "top end" and "lower end" FITS, and that after the FITS percentage has already been cut out of Chinese "tour groups" by the TAT with a formula they will not reveal. 

 

So, just what percentage of "high end" FITS do you think Phuket is getting?  Don't answer, because for the above reason none of us can ever know. 

 

All I know is what I see here, and in Vietnam, and Phuket must be getting the "cheap Charlie FITS" if any FITS at all.    ????

4

Stop being so sensitive and calm down, I didn't say you weren't able to spot FIT's _ I don't visit Vietnam and I don't visit casino's so I can't comment on those things.

 

The sole point I'm trying to make here is that FIT's are in abundance, mostly we don't see them because few of us spend our time looking for them or nor visit the hotels where they stay and go looking for them. Yes, I am certain that Phuket gets its fair share of Chinese FIT's but it becomes pantomime like if you and I try to argue that point, we don't agree, it's as simple as that. You appear not to believe what I have said on the subject but I'm not offended, you will realise the truth of it at some point in some way, in the meantime I suggest we bring this exchange to a close because it's becoming banal.

[NamKangMan]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Stop being so sensitive and calm down, I didn't say you weren't able to spot FIT's _ I don't visit Vietnam and I don't visit casino's so I can't comment on those things.

 

The sole point I'm trying to make here is that FIT's are in abundance, mostly we don't see them because few of us spend our time looking for them or nor visit the hotels where they stay and go looking for them. Yes, I am certain that Phuket gets its fair share of Chinese FIT's but it becomes pantomime like if you and I try to argue that point, we don't agree, it's as simple as that. You appear not to believe what I have said on the subject but I'm not offended, you will realise the truth of it at some point in some way, in the meantime I suggest we bring this exchange to a close because it's becoming banal.

 

I am not being sensitive, and I am calm.  It's just a bit of internet banter, so no need to cease the discussion.

 

It's clear to me you have nothing to compare Chinese FITS on Phuket to, except for your wife's account, and that was 2 years ago in Chiang Mai, and I mean no offense by this.

 

Has it occurred to you that the TAT is falsely classifying a percentage of Chinese as FITS, to suit their own agenda, when in reality, they are not as wealthy as the TAT would like readers to believe?

 

Once again, we don't even know the TAT's criteria for classifying them, so you, and I, and others, are classifying them as per our own observations. 

 

I have seen wealthy Chinese in Phnom Penh and Ho Chi Minh City, but not what I would call the mega wealthy Chinese, and what the TAT would like readers to believe are Chinese FITS, does not correspond with my observations, and what would be my definition of what Chinese FITS are, in neighboring countries.  

 

What if the TAT made a press release saying your average Chinese FIT typically spends $10,000USD a day.  Surely you would disagree.  

 

What if the TAT made a press release saying your average Chinese FIT typically spends 10,000 baht a day.  Definitely possible, and acceptable.

 

However, without the TAT telling the public their criteria for classification, all I know is what I observe here, and I DO NOT observe "the spend" by the Chinese like I see in nearby countries, every few months.

 

Maybe one county's wealthy Chinese FIT is another country's cheap Charlie FIT.  We need to know the TAT's criteria before WE can agree, or disagree, with their classification, and then we can digress to discuss the amount of them that we see here. 

 

The OP really is just more "smoke and mirrors" by the TAT. 

 

 

[onera1961]

On 11/16/2018 at 2:52 AM, NamKangMan said:

As for choosing "where to eat" that is usually 7/11 or Family Mart, and for "where to visit" that's usually a location that does not involve an entrance fee. 

And they line up all over European airports for VAT refunds.