SURVEY: EU -- Will it survive?

[MyFriend You]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Ignorant comment

I would have put you in the bin, but your self centered comments are always a laugh............never entertaining, but always without substance, so I'll keep ya around for awhile..........just so I can read more trash like above.  over 10,000 posts, wonder how many have real substance to them??

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I would have put you in the bin, but your self centered comments are always a laugh............never entertaining, but always without substance, so I'll keep ya around for awhile..........just so I can read more trash like above.  over 10,000 posts, wonder how many have real substance to them??

TunnelRat69, I think that tells us all we need to know! Splendid!

Edited December 9, 2018 by Grouse

[Nigel Garvie]

7 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

           This chart don't mean nothing, Brits can kick thier MP's out at election, but we can't do bug all about European members, so the term elected really does not really apply in most cases. After all, it is the people that should have thier say, and obviously we don't. but just 729 do.

It appears from what you write that you think that the only way someone is elected is if they are elected by UK citizens. The other MEPs who have been elected by voters in their own country clearly don't qualify - this is patently absurd. However your masterful command of the double negative suggests that you could have a promising career writing blues songs. You could start with this for example:-

This chart don't mean nothing,

Yeah this heart don't feel nothing,

My babe done gone and left me

But I ain't gonna cry no more,

The EU ain't nothing but trouble,

Remainers ain't nothing but hound dogs 

And I ain't gonna cry no more.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Nigel Garvie
omitted text

[vogie]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

TunnelRat69, I think that tells us all we need to know! Splendid!

What does it tell you, I'm sure we would all like to know?

[evadgib]

56 minutes ago, vogie said:

What does it tell you, I'm sure we would all like to know?

[My Thai Life]

18 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

We were discussing whether Juncker was unelected or not, not Cameron‘s opinion about Juncker. Juncker was elected, that’s a fact. 

Juncker was not elected by the people. Thats a fact. It's also a fact that the spitzenkandidat system has been questioned by the EU itself.

 

It's  also a fact that Juncker bent the rules to put Selmayr in position; the EU Ombudsman pronounced that Juncker's behaviour was just short of criminal.

 

Here are some more facts about Juncker's philosophy in his own words:

 

On the Lisbon treaty: “Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?”

 

On the Euro: "We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.”

 

This kind of duplicity has been at the heart of the EU since its precursors, the EEC etc., were established. It's one of the core reasons why the EU is increasingly failing.

[grumpy 4680]

    I reckon this topic has proved the Pro Europeans are totally out of touch with reality.

[i claudius]

You claimed he is unelected. As I said, that’s not true: On 27 June 2014, the European Council officially nominated Juncker for the position, and on 15 July 2014, the European Parliament elected him with a majority of 422 votes from a total of 729 cast.
 

So the members of an exclusive club voted one of their members to be boss. By the way who voted for them ?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[peterpop]

On 12/9/2018 at 9:10 AM, Brigand said:

Should be just a free trading block which concentrates on making it's members wealthy and in doing so would see many of the current problems people are experiencing disappear. The EU will be it's own downfall through too much meddling and forcing things on people that are not wanted/needed. The center ground is where most normal people have their political views and can be a little center-left on something and center-right on others, but what is being imposed on everyone is the left and far-left which is why you are seeing so much discourse and the emergence of the right. It's obviously good to have free societies, universal health care/welfare and the like but it all needs to be paid for which brings us back to countries getting wealthy again...the United State of Europe was never going to work in such a short space of time as envisaged by this lot in Brussels. Basically, people don't want it and resistance to it all is starting to show in multiple ways. 

I think you would be an American?  But I still agree with you.

Edited December 10, 2018 by peterpop
Incomplete reply

[nauseus]

10 hours ago, evadgib said:

Just out of shot are two empty bottles of Monkey Shoulder.

[My Thai Life]

This article in The Guardian presents Thomas Piketty's plan for a fairer Europe. Piketty is an economist who specialises in wealth and income inequality. His manifesto is for the democratisation of the EU, which he says is "stuck in “a technocratic impasse” that benefits the rich."

 

I can't say I agree with 100% of his proposed solution, which is to create yet another European assembly with an even bigger budget than the EU. But his plan to raise money by taxing the multinationals who make huge super-profits through EU regulations, and often pay taxes close to zero via EU loopholes, is an interesting read.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/09/eu-brexit-piketty-tax-google-facebook-apple-manifesto

Edited December 10, 2018 by My Thai Life

[nauseus]

19 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I have to admit I don't know.

I would love to see a questionnaire with maybe 20 questions which control the EU currently has and what is the responsibility from each country.

I would be very surprised if the majority of people would be able to answer the majority of questions correct.

Many of us have somehow an idea about the EU and what it does. But how many of us really know?

One reason to have the Brexit vote at all was that lots of UK politicians blamed the EU for almost anything which didn't go well. Too many immigrants from Africa. Blame the EU. People lose their jobs. Blame the EU. How many of the Brexit voters knew in 2016 what was the EU's responsibility and what the UK's.

In the last two years many of us learned a lot about the advantages of the EU which few really looked at before.

Like?

[MyFriend You]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Just out of shot are two empty bottles of Monkey Shoulder.

Isn;t that kind of expensive??  Single malt id'nit??

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Isn;t that kind of expensive??  Single malt id'nit??

Grouse has expensive tastes.

[gk10002000]

When the dust clears, each country, nationality, ethnic, religious, and economic group will do whatever is necessary to protect their own interests.  The idea of a team and teamwork sounds nice, but it is rare for each individual to really buy into sacrificing and giving things up so that others can prosper.  The EU was almost a stunningly successful idea, but so many of the team members are radically different from other members.  A complete union was doomed to fail from the start.

[My Thai Life]

The EU has deep structural problems arising out of the Euro. The bureaucratic juggernaut nature of the EU in its present form makes it impossible to react swiftly to such problems.

 

 

[ianwheldale]

On 12/9/2018 at 9:49 AM, Kwasaki said:

None of your 3 would be of my opinion I predict the EU will collapse.

 

Greece, Italy, Austrian fence, Hungry all have grievances with EU club many other countries of the 28 are the some of the poorest. 

Germany is the only country that has benefited from the club IMO.  

This is hopefully what will happen. The discontent isn't about racism or not liking other countries. It's about globalisation and unelected fat-cat scumbags. Sure, let's all get along, be friendly and trade freely with each other, but a United States of Europe would be a disaster.

[evadgib]

 

[thaibeachlovers]

I would have ticked the option that the EU should be put down like a rabid dog had there been one.

It was supposed to be an economic union, but got subverted by the maniacs to become a political union. The best thing that can happen, IMO, is that it goes back to being an economic union, and sack every bureaucrat in the building- start over with fresh blood.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

 

[Scooby and Puppy]

On 12/9/2018 at 7:32 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

When Europe is a collection of disunited nation states, world wars begin; that is the lesson of the twentieth century.

 

I am indifferent to the EU, just don't suck the world into violence again.

 

 

Have you seen the Gilles Jaunes in France, Holland, Germany, and Brussels, lately? Britain will be like that as well, if they don't get the Brexit they voted for. 

The whole of Europe is turning against the globalist eu dictatorship. It's they who are causing outrage among their citizens, simply because the people don't want multiculturalism the same as the establishment elite. Who cart their wheelbarrows home full of cash and like Juncker, sit back with a whisky, and say "f'<# zem all!!".

[worgeordie]

The EU was set up as an economic union, A.K.A  The common market,that was good,

so countries could trade freely with each other, as happens the leaders

lust for power,it has morphed into a monster that wants to control all

aspects of its members lives,letting in Eastern bloc countries that were

in no way ready to join,was a very big mistake,and could be the start of

the end for it.as it has many problems at the moment.

regards worgeordie

[Scooby and Puppy]

3 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

The EU was set up as an economic union, A.K.A  The common market,that was good,

so countries could trade freely with each other, as happens the leaders

lust for power,it has morphed into a monster that wants to control all

aspects of its members lives,letting in Eastern bloc countries that were

in no way ready to join,was a very big mistake,and could be the start of

the end for it.as it has many problems at the moment.

regards worgeordie

Agree with all that mate...

You would think that with the UK outperforming the eu as a whole, the pound would get stronger in the knowledge we are leaving. But it's even weakening against the euro, which to my mind should be getting weaker, because the eu will eventually collapse without Britain's monetary input. Unless Germany and France can prop it up themselves.

 

A Brexiteer.

[My Thai Life]

A core problem of the EU is that economic union (the Euro) cannot work in the long-term without fiscal union (taxation and other gov't financial policy).

 

Fiscal union means for example that the debts, of let's say Greece, must be shared across the EU - principally Germany of course. Germany is baulking at this.

 

So we have a situation where the EU is being steered towards an end-goal the ramifications of which not even Germany accepts.

 

This problem will not go away until there is a true United States of Europe, or very substantial EU reform.

Edited December 13, 2018 by My Thai Life

[Guest]

On 12/11/2018 at 7:41 AM, My Thai Life said:

The EU has deep structural problems arising out of the Euro. The bureaucratic juggernaut nature of the EU in its present form makes it impossible to react swiftly to such problems.

 

 

With this graph, are you saying that EU has been a very good for the well functioning societies like Germany and UK?

 

 

[balo]

I am a European who lived outside of the EU all my life since I was born in Norway. 

 

So this is no big deal really , just write the new laws and work together , how hard can it be ? 

 

 

[My Thai Life]

There are so many fault lines appearing in the EU nowadays that it's difficult to know where to start, but let's go with the Euro and Italy.

 

For nearly 4 years the ECB (European Central Bank) has bought up all the Italian government debt issuance (Italian government bonds) via the QE programme (Quantitative Easing). The ECB is finally terminating the QE programme this month. Interest rates are -0.4%. Inflation (modest inflation a good thing in this context) is stalled at 1%.

 

The EU's Stability Pact and Fiscal Compact prevent Keynesian stimulus policies.

 

The so called "doom loop" between Eurozone banks and governments/countries is now a real possibility and there is no buffer left for these financial shocks.

 

Brexit is another such shock for the Eurozone: the EU's 92 billion trade surplus with the UK will be seriously impacted if the EU imposes a punitive Brexit.

 

Macron's grandiose schemes for an EU budget union have failed, and his country is now in flames due to him.

 

As a committed European I am unhappy, to say the least, with the turmoil that EU policies and intransigence are creating. For the last couple of years Brexit has dominated the European debate to the extent that other EU problems have been largely forgotten about, but they are steadily getting worse and increasing in number.

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

As a committed European I am unhappy, to say the least, with the turmoil that EU policies and intransigence are creating. For the last couple of years Brexit has dominated the European debate to the extent that other EU problems have been largely forgotten about, but they are steadily getting worse and increasing in number.

Oh? Committed European? That's a bit too much?

 

When a person is looking for problems, the very person is likely to find problems. 

When another person is looking for brighter future, the same person is likely to find a brighter future. 

 

 

[metisdead]

An offensive post has been reported and removed. 

[Scooby and Puppy]

On 12/9/2018 at 2:28 PM, nausea said:

Yeah, if one thing my MBA taught me it's that teams usually win over individuals. If you think about it WW2 was a team effort. Of course, that presumes you have some strong individuals in your team - France, Germany, GB. GB leaving will weaken the EU in so many ways. Whether it weakens GB time will tell. There's always a place for outliers. I suspect certain sectors of society will suffer terribly, others will benefit. The strongest individuals in today's world are China and the US, I can't see them joining any club soon. Anyway, I support the EU, not because I think its inherently good, but because it's a step on the way. There will need to be a lot of twisting and turning before the EU becomes truly representative of the peoples that support it. The riots in France and the referendum in GB being two examples, two different nations, same problem, two different responses.

All well and good you saying that. But the majority of people on the street don't agree with you, you are in the minority. But for some reason, dont take this to heart, but be it arrogance, or smugness, you eu supporters still think you have the moral high ground just because at the moment it is the status quo. But a hard Brexit will hit the eu and Britain's economies, yet the eu is already suffering in the southern states, so will hit eu countries more.

I am for Brexit, for the British people who voted to leave the eu by a large majority, so that should be the case no matter what others think or say. But really, it doesn't matter to me either way, because I haven't lived in the UK for many years, but still care about my country, and more so the people that live there. I like the everyday european people too, but i am disgusted with the establishments of both mainland europe, and my 'little island' Britain. None of them listen to the people anymore, they just do what THEY want, and we have to suck it up....that is not democracy in my book.  So, to sum up, it's a no deal leave on WTO rules for me, and wait for the eu to come back to us with a better deal, instead of the worst deal possible for Britain that they have offered us.

This is not an argument with you, I am just stating the case for ordinary people who are the majority (more than a minority), that voted to leave the eu... just making it clear that Leave is the default action for a no deal scenario, anything else will be screwing the majority who actually DID know what they were voting for. But in a way, we didn't know what we were voting for because now it's...

Remain, or Leave, but leave meaning to still be tied in to the eu forever without any representation. 

 

regards, A Brexiteer

Edited December 14, 2018 by Scooby and Puppy