Punch Up

[jayjayjayjay]

Its not the water they want ,its nice green Rucci grass I have sown and hand water every day,its  multi purpose is to consolodate the levee banks ,chop for fish feed and also its visual merits , we have landscaped extensively and after the wet intend building cabanas so that folk can sit eat and drink in nice surroundings.
  To work 10 hr days only to have non caring twits allow there animals to trample all that work gets up my nose. 
  I care deeply for my wife and this project is to give her a sustainable income long after I am gone.
  Your sound like you know cattle so you would know they should have access to water at all times,Picture the know it all thai who tethers his walking bank book in the middle of a dry rice paddy for 12 hrs a day with no water.

Land mines, you could cook the mince and some might land in the pond for fish feed. Jay

[steveromagnino]

Ozzydom

Ignoring a few 'wrong directions' in the thread, I think you have been given some very good advice here.

'You are from a rich/ sucessful country where face is not an issue. Why would you want to be like someone from a poor third world country which has not contriduted much to the modern world? Im sure the whole face saving issue is an issue that has contributed to this country's lack of success.'

Please back this up with an explanation regarding Japan. Or Korea.

Face is a reality in Thailand and across Asia. This isn't USA, this isn't UK, and besides which, I we all think and know how to manipulate people in both those countries using face - the classic, what are you looking at, were you looking at my girlfriend, cutting someone off in a meeting etc etc are all aimed at moving things to a head in much the same way as things have moved to a head for you.

Clearly this isn't so much a village issue, as a family issue. No doubt the phoo yai bahn and the police don't want to take too clear a side, as it probably is unclear to them who they should back; the farang who is clearly in the right this time (I assume everyone agrees on that) but is tough to understand and may not be around that long (may move out or whatever) and possibly is someone to be a bit jealous of having money and all that or one faction of a family. So they take the course of privately telling you to look after yourself, but publically not doing too much.

In muay Thai, there is a school of thought; land the first major kick, make your opponent feel your power. Failing to do this, it leaves you in a situation of coming from behind. Exactly like face.

My recommendation is to develop some serious face within the village.

1. Make some significant donations to worthy causes; school, temple, that sort of thing. Nothing to anyone directly, but arrange for some major phoo yai to attend that is a step beyond the entire village e.g. a former politician or maybe a senior civil servant or similar. This will move you beyond the reach of the rest of the village; who would mess with someone connected with, say, Chalerm Yoobumroong...however this is reliant on being able to make the connection with such a person

2. Don't give in to your family member directly against you (the sister) but instead make large random generous gestures to only some parts of the family; divide and rule

3. Assuming you aren't already, get fluent in Thai fast and learn how to wai and so forth properly (some farangs don't do any of these sorts of things right, and invariably are insulting or making people feel awkward by being over the top)

4. Don't give the cow farmer or the sister anything, but no further escalation either. Any escalation and the eyes will be on you. If you must give them something, do it via a 3rd party and make a protracted negotation so they think they won, but it doesn't look that way to others

Stand firm, win over the phoo yai bahn and the police without naming names, and you should be ok. The key is to give the sister and brother a way to back out, thinking they have won but that others can look at it and see somiething else. If you force them into a corner by say poisoning cattle or giving them stuff, then you run out of options. Perhaps use one of the more nuetral family members for this.

Anyone that tells you this is unique to THailand (the art of negotation) has never worked in sales. It is simply manipulating someone; and in your case with more money, more education and not being drunk, you should be able to outmanouvere them ok.

[Prakanong]

the odd hard working Thai who does two crops a year and doesnt hide his head in a whisky bottle every day is scorned as "stingy".

That is so sad to hear. Just another example of how backwards some people are here....................

I have seen it too when staying upcountry.

The jealusy thing to as pointed out over the face thing - I think face is often used to hide other things.

Whatever its bloody complex and i for one do not know if I want to get into all this again.

Strange case last week in Singapore when a Thai guy was jailed and sentenced to killing another Thai. He did it just because his friend asked him to help beat up another thai and as usual it was 4 onto 1

[jackr]

Ozzydom

Ignoring a few 'wrong directions' in the thread, I think you have been given some very good advice here.

'You are from a rich/ sucessful country where face is not an issue. Why would you want to be like someone from a poor third world country which has not contriduted much to the modern world? Im sure the whole face saving issue is an issue that has contributed to this country's lack of success.'

Please back this up with an explanation regarding Japan. Or Korea.

Face is a reality in Thailand and across Asia. This isn't USA, this isn't UK, and besides which, I we all think and know how to manipulate people in both those countries using face - the classic, what are you looking at, were you looking at my girlfriend, cutting someone off in a meeting etc etc are all aimed at moving things to a head in much the same way as things have moved to a head for you.

Clearly this isn't so much a village issue, as a family issue. No doubt the phoo yai bahn and the police don't want to take too clear a side, as it probably is unclear to them who they should back; the farang who is clearly in the right this time (I assume everyone agrees on that) but is tough to understand and may not be around that long (may move out or whatever) and possibly is someone to be a bit jealous of having money and all that or one faction of a family. So they take the course of privately telling you to look after yourself, but publically not doing too much.

In muay Thai, there is a school of thought; land the first major kick, make your opponent feel your power. Failing to do this, it leaves you in a situation of coming from behind. Exactly like face.

My recommendation is to develop some serious face within the village.

1. Make some significant donations to worthy causes; school, temple, that sort of thing. Nothing to anyone directly, but arrange for some major phoo yai to attend that is a step beyond the entire village e.g. a former politician or maybe a senior civil servant or similar. This will move you beyond the reach of the rest of the village; who would mess with someone connected with, say, Chalerm Yoobumroong...however this is reliant on being able to make the connection with such a person

2. Don't give in to your family member directly against you (the sister) but instead make large random generous gestures to only some parts of the family; divide and rule

3. Assuming you aren't already, get fluent in Thai fast and learn how to wai and so forth properly (some farangs don't do any of these sorts of things right, and invariably are insulting or making people feel awkward by being over the top)

4. Don't give the cow farmer or the sister anything, but no further escalation either. Any escalation and the eyes will be on you. If you must give them something, do it via a 3rd party and make a protracted negotation so they think they won, but it doesn't look that way to others

Stand firm, win over the phoo yai bahn and the police without naming names, and you should be ok. The key is to give the sister and brother a way to back out, thinking they have won but that others can look at it and see somiething else. If you force them into a corner by say poisoning cattle or giving them stuff, then you run out of options. Perhaps use one of the more nuetral family members for this.

Anyone that tells you this is unique to THailand (the art of negotation) has never worked in sales. It is simply manipulating someone; and in your case with more money, more education and not being drunk, you should be able to outmanouvere them ok.

Nice post, although a serious amount of hassle for simply wanting to live some place and gain this perceived 'face'. I don't love it enough to warrant going through all that and still realize that deep down they regard you as an alien piece of fruit.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

[steveromagnino]

Nice post, although a serious amount of hassle for simply wanting to live some place and gain this perceived 'face'. I don't love it enough to warrant going through all that and still realize that deep down they regard you as an alien piece of fruit.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Well in this guy's case, some remedial work may be required, as things have already escalated to this point.

For most, just normal behaviour, basic politeness and understanding of how not to offend the locals is enough. Mind you, some people are unlucky enough to end up next to some clowns; the OP has that problem.

Ah well, I guess the consolation is that at the end of the day, most of you are a lot richer than the villagers you are surrounded by. That's what enabled you to get there is the first place.

Edited February 26, 2007 by steveromagnino

[ColPyat]

For most, just normal behaviour, basic politeness and understanding of how not to offend the locals is enough. Mind you, some people are unlucky enough to end up next to some clowns; the OP has that problem.

Problem is that there is almost always some clown around, or somebody who bears a personal grudge against farang, which often comes from having had a wife run off to the game and hooked up with a farang.

And often, in villages with high amount of farang married into the folks there, one has to suffer from the mistakes of the predecessors, such as coming on a holiday and keeping the whole village drunk during the whole stay.

Strong Thai language abilities, and a proper knowledge how to move around in Thai village society does help tremendously though.

[Payboy]

hi ozzy - have you considered buying a couple of rottweilers?

[PanzerJohn]

hi ozzy - have you considered buying a couple of rottweilers?

Thats not a failsafe either, the bastards just poison them.

[ozzydom]

This "saving face" seems to be a recurring phrase through many posts, am I correct in saying that this is the same as what we westerners call Pride, and is this saving face thing in their own mind or their perception of what others think?

For instance, what pride is in a dead-beat drunk who lays down on the side of the road for all to see and goes to sleep.

Or the evil sister whose attitude with every one (not just me)is I,m shit on a stick so dont mess with me.

My two main opponents in my little problem are themselves shunned by the villagers,and are perceived by many to be a sandwich short of a cut lunch.

An earlier occurance with evil sister (which I had Forgotten about) may give the amatuer psycologists a clue of what I,m up against.

Bear in mind that evil sister hates her baby sister (my wife) she was the only family member not to attend our wedding,in fact she isnt invited to any functions in the village.

Well, we had an excavator,tractors and trucks buildind our first fish pond and roads when evil sister walked up near us and started screaming out in Thai. I asked the wife what she was saying as she was clearly directing this tirade at me.

The thai workers were looking pretty sheepish and the wife said that evil sister was saying that I would be dead soon as she was going to pay 5k for men to come and do me in,this was coming from a person I had just forked out big baht to save the farm and get her title to her 3 rai.

I didnt know how serious she was but was assured she was capable of anything, so clear thinking me said ,call the cops and see if she repeats it in front of them,which was done and she repeated it then kinghit the wife so the BiB slapped her in handcuffs and threw her in the back of the utility and off to the hoosegow.

After 12hrs we spent at the jail she was still raving she would not retract what she was saying, anyway her husband came and paid 2k teamoney to get her out of jail and 5k to my wife for her black eye.

That was 2 1/2 years ago .

[ozzydom]

hi ozzy - have you considered buying a couple of rottweilers?

Thats not a failsafe either, the bastards just poison them.

I have my best mate a Border Collie/Dalmation cross who I found chained up nearby waiting to be swapped for a plastic bucket by the Laos dog buyers,if something happens to her,revenge will be swift you can be assured.

[tijnebijn]

Ozzie,you can give everybody a name like you wish.But many of our thoughts are based on experience,and many encountered similar situations like you are in.You are pretty experienced yourself!

But the main thing is ,can you do something with it?Cause you give me the impression that you do not care that much,but you started this topic yourself!The comments you receive are just for you getting out of trouble,at least can help you out a bit........If any can help....... Are you interested to change your mind or tactics if you think they might suit you?

[Tornado]

Well Ozzydom, I feel for you mate and I think you did the right thing in busting him up. Ive had a few situations similiar whilst living out in the sticks on my own (our) land.

The post made me have a chuckle though, the guy got beaten up by a 70 year old, I bet he is the laugh of the town!

watch your back anyway mate - good luck to you!

[ColPyat]

This "saving face" seems to be a recurring phrase through many posts, am I correct in saying that this is the same as what we westerners call Pride, and is this saving face thing in their own mind or their perception of what others think?

Face is somewhat similar, but different than pride.

I have no proper explanation. Maybe somebody else has. I could only translate it in a way that, pride is selfworth based mainly on how you perceive yourself, while face is based more on how others perceive you.

But it's a lot more complicated than that.

[ozzydom]

Ozzie,you can give everybody a name like you wish.But many of our thoughts are based on experience,and many encountered similar situations like you are in.You are pretty experienced yourself!

But the main thing is ,can you do something with it?Cause you give me the impression that you do not care that much,but you started this topic yourself!The comments you receive are just for you getting out of trouble,at least can help you out a bit........If any can help....... Are you interested to change your mind or tactics if you think they might suit you?

tijnebijn,TV members who know me would know that I am an amiable sort of guy, not prone to pulling my hair out , in my previous life I had to deal with a gambling wife and two drug addicted kids and the myriard of problems they brought me so I have learnt to roll with the punches life throws at us at times.

My wife and I have discussed this current problem with close friends here in the village and the consensus of opinion seems to put it down to envy.

by that I mean evil sisters envy of her baby sister having a not rich farang husband while she has had 4 husbands and none worth a c#*%t full of cold water.

This jealusy /envy thing is a whole new ball game for me , This afternoon at my behest, my wife got her mother to go to see evil one with her and sort out why we cant all get on ,she was told to f#$&k off ,you are going to die like him (me), now that sort of logic is way out of my experiences.

Do I care,your right, I dont ,dieing is a foregone conclusion, but I do care what becomes of my wife after I,m up the chimney,thats why I work so hard to build something for her future.

[ozzydom]

Well Ozzydom, I feel for you mate and I think you did the right thing in busting him up. Ive had a few situations similiar whilst living out in the sticks on my own (our) land.

The post made me have a chuckle though, the guy got beaten up by a 70 year old, I bet he is the laugh of the town!

watch your back anyway mate - good luck to you!

Thanks Mate, by the way I prefer the old avitar, this one had me fooled

[ColPyat]

This jealusy /envy thing is a whole new ball game for me , This afternoon at my behest, my wife got her mother to go to see evil one with her and sort out why we cant all get on ,she was told to f#$&k off ,you are going to die like him (me), now that sort of logic is way out of my experiences.

Well, and that is where face comes into the game. You made that bloke you decked loose face big time, and his wife's as well. And if you ask me, he bloody deserved it. I told my wife that you, the 70 year old gramps decked the much younger guy, and she burst out laughing.

From what you described in your later posts, it appears that you have an OK face in the village, and might have even got quite some more by punching the other guy out.

Have you asked your wife yet what the people say about that punch?

[tijnebijn]

Ozzie,you can give everybody a name like you wish.But many of our thoughts are based on experience,and many encountered similar situations like you are in.You are pretty experienced yourself!

But the main thing is ,can you do something with it?Cause you give me the impression that you do not care that much,but you started this topic yourself!The comments you receive are just for you getting out of trouble,at least can help you out a bit........If any can help....... Are you interested to change your mind or tactics if you think they might suit you?

tijnebijn,TV members who know me would know that I am an amiable sort of guy, not prone to pulling my hair out , in my previous life I had to deal with a gambling wife and two drug addicted kids and the myriard of problems they brought me so I have learnt to roll with the punches life throws at us at times.

My wife and I have discussed this current problem with close friends here in the village and the consensus of opinion seems to put it down to envy.

by that I mean evil sisters envy of her baby sister having a not rich farang husband while she has had 4 husbands and none worth a c#*%t full of cold water.

This jealusy /envy thing is a whole new ball game for me , This afternoon at my behest, my wife got her mother to go to see evil one with her and sort out why we cant all get on ,she was told to f#$&k off ,you are going to die like him (me), now that sort of logic is way out of my experiences.

Do I care,your right, I dont ,dieing is a foregone conclusion, but I do care what becomes of my wife after I,m up the chimney,thats why I work so hard to build something for her future.

I wonder how a good guy like you can come in such a trouble.

You know?I think this evil one,I like the nickname,is just a psychotic woman who clearly needs help.

Also in this case,the 'face thing'is not into place,cause very clearly ,how you state it,everybody looks her like 'tingtong' no matter what.So no need for any info for you in regards comments .How you handle this I think is very good allready,and i would not sleep a night over it,to be scared of any taking your life.Maybe if she comes drunk and attacks you ,your wife should knock her,maybe you could teach her some boxtechnics,it worked out for you.But for the serious posters this is proberly a nono again,but in this case i think no worries.

Cheers.

[ozzydom]

This jealusy /envy thing is a whole new ball game for me , This afternoon at my behest, my wife got her mother to go to see evil one with her and sort out why we cant all get on ,she was told to f#$&k off ,you are going to die like him (me), now that sort of logic is way out of my experiences.

Well, and that is where face comes into the game. You made that bloke you decked loose face big time, and his wife's as well. And if you ask me, he bloody deserved it. I told my wife that you, the 70 year old gramps decked the much younger guy, and she burst out laughing.

From what you described in your later posts, it appears that you have an OK face in the village, and might have even got quite some more by punching the other guy out.

Have you asked your wife yet what the people say about that punch?

According to her its a big giggle around the village, she just tells everybody that she doesnt want to talk about it, She gets embarassed because all the women tell her if old man fight like that he must be good in bed.

The assistant village headman told her she lucky to have farang man to protect her, one punch and thai man go hospital. He doesnt know it was a lucky shot,if he hadnt gone down he probably would have run me out of steam.

[ColPyat]

According to her its a big giggle around the village, she just tells everybody that she doesnt want to talk about it, She gets embarassed because all the women tell her if old man fight like that he must be good in bed.

The assistant village headman told her she lucky to have farang man to protect her, one punch and thai man go hospital. He doesnt know it was a lucky shot,if he hadnt gone down he probably would have run me out of steam.

I would say that is rather good news.

Even if it was a lucky punch, people will be hesitant to take liberties with you. This will definately be a permanent fixture in village stories.

I think the best way to proceed is just taking care that you are not alone, especially when that blokes daughter comes around. But i believe that if the neighbors keep behaving that way, somebody like the Pu Yai will have a talk with them, and if they behave like that to him as well, there is a fair chance that they will be asked to leave, or.

Just go on as normal and don't show any fear beyond being careful.

[tijnebijn]

This jealusy /envy thing is a whole new ball game for me , This afternoon at my behest, my wife got her mother to go to see evil one with her and sort out why we cant all get on ,she was told to f#$&k off ,you are going to die like him (me), now that sort of logic is way out of my experiences.

Well, and that is where face comes into the game. You made that bloke you decked loose face big time, and his wife's as well. And if you ask me, he bloody deserved it. I told my wife that you, the 70 year old gramps decked the much younger guy, and she burst out laughing.

From what you described in your later posts, it appears that you have an OK face in the village, and might have even got quite some more by punching the other guy out.

Have you asked your wife yet what the people say about that punch?

According to her its a big giggle around the village, she just tells everybody that she doesnt want to talk about it, She gets embarassed because all the women tell her if old man fight like that he must be good in bed.

The assistant village headman told her she lucky to have farang man to protect her, one punch and thai man go hospital. He doesnt know it was a lucky shot,if he hadnt gone down he probably would have run me out of steam.

Nobody has to know about it was lucky or not,maybe at age 70 you discovered some unknown talent?

And by the way,this awkward situation made you live up even more,and thanks for letting us know,really the best of the week.And keep on going like you are going,if i could be that explosive on your age i would be oh so happy

[Khonwan]

The following is from my 10-year-old copy of "The Penal Code of Thailand":

Section 392 - "Whoever puts a person in fear or in fright by threat shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one month or fine not exceeding one thousand baht, or both.

Not much of a long term solution to your problem but it may be worth noting should you wish to involve the police again at this stage. Should you consider this, I would strongly advise you take the Poo Yai Baan along with you to the police station to strengthen the seriousness of your case.

[jayjayjayjay]

This jealusy /envy thing is a whole new ball game for me , This afternoon at my behest, my wife got her mother to go to see evil one with her and sort out why we cant all get on ,she was told to f#{:content:}amp;k off ,you are going to die like him (me), now that sort of logic is way out of my experiences.

Well, and that is where face comes into the game. You made that bloke you decked loose face big time, and his wife's as well. And if you ask me, he bloody deserved it. I told my wife that you, the 70 year old gramps decked the much younger guy, and she burst out laughing.

From what you described in your later posts, it appears that you have an OK face in the village, and might have even got quite some more by punching the other guy out.

Have you asked your wife yet what the people say about that punch?

According to her its a big giggle around the village, she just tells everybody that she doesnt want to talk about it, She gets embarassed because all the women tell her if old man fight like that he must be good in bed.

The assistant village headman told her she lucky to have farang man to protect her, one punch and thai man go hospital. He doesnt know it was a lucky shot,if he hadnt gone down he probably would have run me out of steam.

Looks like things are settling down thai style when the gossip's going this way. Good luck Ozzy, looks like you might be in the clear now..

[jackr]

Forget the karma mate. How's about paying some Thai Arab stallions (if they exist) to run a train on the wicked one? That ought to put a smile on her boat.

[ozzydom]

Forget the karma mate. How's about paying some Thai Arab stallions (if they exist) to run a train on the wicked one? That ought to put a smile on her boat.

Even had a fleeting moment of madness and thought maybe I oughta do it as a peace offering Mate. But the missus has all the ladies worried,every time they quiz her about the farangs manliness (seems to be a favorite topic for em) she wraps her hand around her forearm, I havnt had any offers so it must have worked..