New financial regulations for retirees: Nearly a third of expats may have to leave - but half on Facebook say they're off!

[alzack]

We left Thailand in 2016 after being there 20 years. Good times, many friends, great place for our 3 kids growing. BUT we saw the squeeze on the pension rules and  of course The pound in Kamakazi mode. We decided timer to return to old blighty, and glad we did . we now doubled our income, no depreciation  or charges on currency exchanges.  Was paying private school x3 in Thailand, now free schooling, farang food, which i always preferred, half the price, free buses pas,tax credits for my son which we never could claim, in Thailand, pension increased by 35% as never an increase whilst in Thailand, wife's visa hard to do, but now she is resident uk visa. so although we miss some things, mostly it was worth calling it a day. We still have a farm in north Thailand and maybe later will just return for the winter months Its hard to know how a lot of the younger expats, without pensions are going to fair in the future. good luck you all

[worgeordie]

2 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Cape Verde good weather and okay cost of living with next to no corruption 

Wonder how many people would know where it is on a map ?

regards Worgeordie

[Thailand]

6 minutes ago, davidstipek said:

This is getting Funny!

 

I just left Chiang Mai Immigration (Monday, Feb. 4tn). I went to pose this question to the Director here, if this was true what was bouncing around TV, on this subject.

 

The answer I received was my account needed to show the funds, intact in my account 3 months prior to Visa renewal! PERIOD!!

 

As for the idea being discussed here, answer was a flat "We have not received any Orders to change the intact rules"! Original Immigration Rules still apply!

 

So I have a answer that buffs everyone's fears on what was being told ( by who??) On this subject. I am sure that if we visit Immigration 3-4 months prior to renewal date and ask again we will get a current answer. Would be nice if they would send a notification of change letter to all current Retiree's of change when it happens. If it ever does. This would show everyone that all this paperwork they say they are doing is actually getting done, also prove that the 90 day reporting is keeping everyone's Immigration folder current with correct address!

As the police order refers to the the 1st March 2019 when the changes come in to effect that is the answer you would expect.

 

That said, I mentioned earlier I have seen an email dated today saying the new regulations only apply to new applicants for extensions of stay based on retirement.

[Acharn]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It does appear that this administration, and especially the biggest joke, are trying to do everything in their power to discourage ex-pats from staying here. Does it not? These imbeciles should be making our lives easier, and making visa policy simpler. Rather they seem to be tightening the noose, every chance they get. To call them ignorant, fearful, xenophobic, non-visionary, and misguided would be a vast understatement. Biggest Joke said he would make things easier and simpler. He is doing just the opposite, and barely even disguising his contempt for foreigners. He is the single biggest threat to the ex-pat community right now. 

 

One can only hope that come election time, all of this nonsense will be over, and both Prayuth and especially the biggest joke, will be sent out to pasture for the rest of their lives. They are not doing anything that benefits their nation, and they are picking on good men, who are bringing a lot to the table. Dumb and dumber. What can one say? 

You're planning to vote then?

Edited February 4, 2019 by Acharn

[bkkcanuck8]

7 minutes ago, Benmart said:

Define quality. Define your version of how things should be. Define your qualifications. Define nationality. Define your place in the Thai government hierarchy.

The Thai definition of quality is someone who has more money, doesn't look like a member/former member of a bike gang with tattoos and does not give the wrong western ideas (corrupt culture) about things like equality and democracy.  They also dress reasonable ????

Edited February 4, 2019 by bkkcanuck8

[Wake Up]

4 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Where are they going to go to,back home ,Cambodia,or Philippines,

save up a bit more money and the could be back.

regards Worgeordie

Guaranteed if you cannot afford Thailand you are in serious retirement money hell. 

 

People blame Thailand for desiring only those immigrants who can live above the poverty line. Nothing wrong with that IMO.  

 

If you can’t put 800 k in the bank something is wrong with your retirement plan and they don’t want you here. I feel empathy for you but if I was in charge it would be a lot more than 800k needed to retire here. The only difference is I would include all your assets like condo ownership in the required figures and give those people married to Thais or having Thai children an easier path to stay. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Wake Up

[Caine]

Who in their right mind would want to live in Thailand permanently anyway, only the morons who have burnt their bridges most not having a pot to piss in.

[grego49]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

The rules were fine before these changes - there is a principle here which causes me to reject these rules as totally absurd, we now have to season 800k baht for 6 months and not allowed to touch 400k baht of my own money - there is just something fundamentally wrong with that, it serves no purpose at all

 

They need to rethink this - very pissed off

Went to our local IO today asked our very grumpy and arrogant ladies at the front desk about these new changes and was waved away with the answer no changes no changes,so we will have to wait and see,

[ukrules]

4 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I suspect at the end of the day, many people saying they will have to leave, will find an agent who will sort it out for them, and the number of actual leavers will not be that high. this is Thailand after all, and they are very good at finding a way to make money scamming the system, and I am sure this will be no exception. The only difference is that it will probably cost more.

Yeah I suspect you're right here. I was explaining these new rules and how people circumvented them with fraudulent bank letters before  to my mother who's in her 70's and she simply said 'they will charge them twice'.  Once when you do the extension of stay and once when you need to prove funds after 90 days.

[bkkcanuck8]

1 minute ago, Caine said:

Who in their right mind would want to live in Thailand permanently anyway, only the morons who have burnt their bridges most not having a pot to piss in.

I could not burn my bridges... they were frozen... I am staying here for the moment but I never say never to moving around... done it many times, just don't see anything elsewhere to give me an incentive to leave.

[Oziex1]

So nothing is going to change then, just a bit more winging at the bar or on TV.com.

[Wake Up]

9 minutes ago, alzack said:

We left Thailand in 2016 after being there 20 years. Good times, many friends, great place for our 3 kids growing. BUT we saw the squeeze on the pension rules and  of course The pound in Kamakazi mode. We decided timer to return to old blighty, and glad we did . we now doubled our income, no depreciation  or charges on currency exchanges.  Was paying private school x3 in Thailand, now free schooling, farang food, which i always preferred, half the price, free buses pas,tax credits for my son which we never could claim, in Thailand, pension increased by 35% as never an increase whilst in Thailand, wife's visa hard to do, but now she is resident uk visa. so although we miss some things, mostly it was worth calling it a day. We still have a farm in north Thailand and maybe later will just return for the winter months Its hard to know how a lot of the younger expats, without pensions are going to fair in the future. good luck you all

Yes that Brexit is really working out great for you. Seriously you did not leave Thailand because of the proficiency of the “pension squeeze” if you have a good life in UK which costs a fortune to live in.  ????

[statman78]

No where near half will leave. 49% of the respondents said that the requirements may force people to leave.  They did not say that they were leaving.  That is a big difference than 49% of the people decided to leave. The number will be much closer to the 7.9% who said they would leave.  I am planning on transferring at least 65k every month so I do not have to keep it in the bank and I can use it when I want.

[worgeordie]

3 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

Guaranteed if you cannot afford Thailand you are in serious retirement money hell. 

 

People blame Thailand for desiring only those immigrants who can live above the poverty line. Nothing wrong with that IMO.  

 

If you can’t put 800 k in the bank something is wrong with your retirement plan and they don’t want you here. I feel empathy for you but if I was in charge it would be a lot more than 800k needed to retire here. The only difference is I would include all your assets like condo ownership in the required figures and give those people married to Thais or having Thai children an easier path to stay. 

I feel empathy for you ! ,well thank you ,but i don't need it,lived here 31 years now,

have a plot in the  Foreign cemetery ,so i don't think i will ever leave,just hope I

can hang on a bit longer.

regards worgeordie

[LivinLOS]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It does appear that this administration, and especially the biggest joke, are trying to do everything in their power to discourage ex-pats from staying here. Does it not? These imbeciles should be making our lives easier, and making visa policy simpler.

But they are.. non imm OX.. 10 years etc.. 

 

The thing is they are not making it easier for the guys with limited funds.. They are rolling out the red carpet for the well heeled.. Its a trend thats been going on for over a decade.. Good guys in bad guys out.. With rich and poor in place of good and bad. 

[tandor]

4 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

yeah, and I'm having sex with two blondes in a Ferrari tonight.

..i think you need a work permit for that sort of thing.

[alzack]

3 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

Yes that Brexit is really working out great for you. Seriously you did not leave Thailand because of the proficiency of the “pension squeeze” if you have a good life in UK which costs a fortune to live in.  ????

We have nothing to do with Brexit we are Better off in UK than we were in Thailand  A lot of you guys there inthe Land of smiles will be left high and dry when the GF pulls out

[Thailand]

2 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

I feel empathy for you ! ,well thank you ,but i don't need it,lived here 31 years now,

have a plot in the  Foreign cemetery ,so i don't think i will ever leave,just hope I

can hang on a bit longer.

regards worgeordie

Must be worth a new retirement extension by now, yet another asset. ????

 

Me, a pile of logs at the bottom of the garden.

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, shady86 said:

Better leave. Thailand needs quality expats, not quantity.

Please tell us the difference, or do you mean the better off, and the not so better off.

[newnative]

3 hours ago, farangx said:

Chinese numbers are not big yet.  If it becomes huge which IMO is unlikely, the rules will adapt.

    I think the Chinese numbers are larger than you might think.  As I have said before, the last 3 condos I sold were to Chinese buyers.  Most of the buyers that came to look at the condos were also Chinese.  They have money to buy at the 3.5 MB price point and also the over 10 MB level.  

    My partner and I just bought a getaway condo in a new project in Bangkok.  The project's foreign quota sold out--mostly to Chinese buyers. The other weekend we went to another new Bangkok project to look at the models--almost all the other people going through the models were Chinese. I was the only Caucasian and my partner was the only Thai that we saw.   We've seen the same thing when we visit condo model projects in Pattaya--and not just the huge multi-building One project in south Jomtien Beach that has a Chinese developer partner and seems totally geared to Chinese buyers.  Recent condo sales by several friends have also been to Chinese buyers.  

[SuperTed]

Wow. Maybe it really is time to buy a house in Thailand. Should be a lot of fully furnished homes, complete with cars and scooters, up on the market.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, shady86 said:

Better leave. Thailand needs quality expats, not quantity.

 

Quality is not synonamous with wealth....

 

There are a lot of stand-up expats with just enough money who support their wives and families, are standup people and don't engage in any misdeeds here.

 

On the other hand, there are goodly numbers of flash wealthy expats running around with expensive homes and fancy cars who make their money off of crime, scamming, drug dealing, etc etc.

 

Which group there deserves to be considered "quality"?

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[zib]

I agree with the Thai gov for once. Why should they make it easy to retire here when almost all countries in the EU etc doesnt even have a retirement visa option. Or before Schengen accepts atleast 30d visa on arrival or similar i'm not going to complain. Thai visa rules are far too lenient compared to other countries already.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Cambodia is a lawless corrupt, brutal place. Go there and you will be treated as a sexual predator or criminal by your home country. Vietanam's shine wears off quickly once you have to deal with the  mind numbing communist bureaucracy and insidious corruption.

We are treated like criminals here with the ridiculous 90 day reporting.

[Mansell]

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

LOL. No, it won't. The loss of the lower end of the financial strata will be insignificant, because of the change in visitor  demographics. The Russian and Asian visitor segments are experiencing double digit growth and they  present a much better value proposition for the Thais.

I disagree. Most farang here spend way more over a year than some Russian and Cheapy Chinese tourists visiting for a couple of weeks. I spend money on housing, schooling for the kids, food, travel, entertainment, automobile with ancillaries like gas, insurance, maintenance, and the lady's many needs from makeup to hair to clothes, etc.

[marcusarelus]

Just now, possum1931 said:

We are treated like criminals here with the ridiculous 90 day reporting.

What criminal can report his address online or by mail?  My taxi driver reports mine.  You don't live in Thailand do you?  You don't even have to report your address now do you? 

[Vacuum]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Biggest Joke said he would make things easier and simpler. He is doing just the opposite, and barely even disguising his contempt for foreigners. He is the single biggest threat to the ex-pat community right now. 

At least to the ones who can't comply

with the finacial rules, and have to rely on agents.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Vacuum

[bkkcanuck8]

13 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

But they are.. non imm OX.. 10 years etc.. 

 

The thing is they are not making it easier for the guys with limited funds.. They are rolling out the red carpet for the well heeled.. Its a trend thats been going on for over a decade.. Good guys in bad guys out.. With rich and poor in place of good and bad. 

It is something that has been lost on many who seemed to think that getting a non-imm visa for the purposes of retirement -- made them morally superior to those that stayed on a raft of tourist visas... the visas are not that much different since the retirement visa is and always has been no more than a temporary visa (similar to tourist) just you don't have to prove your qualifications every few months but annually. 

 

The requirements/policy for allowing retirees is always dependent on what Thai officials believe are in the best interests of Thailand as a whole.  People that are just scraping by or are seriously stressed by small changes in requirements just may not be worth it (in the view of the government) -- not something to get angry about... well except to those that mistakenly thought that they had a right to stay here... which they did not.   Thailand does not owe you anything.  Blunt as it may be -- planning on permanency on something that is temporary and is only there at the whims of someone else is -- well naive. 

 

If the regulations come to pass, there will likely be a churn of maybe something less than 10%... but it is not going to make a major impact nationally speaking.

Edited February 4, 2019 by bkkcanuck8

[AlexPTY]

Let's face it "retirees" and as called "lawyers" running a con putting required 800K in the bank account, printing the book and taking money out. New regulations will make this more difficult. There is nothing unusual about holding money for some time, similar visa requirements are in Philippines and some other Asian countries. People with no money on account should not retire in Thailand or any other country, don't we have enough cheap Charley here already?

 

Next logical step will be to require an health insurance policy for all long stay visas. Joke or not, it's coming...  

[SuperTed]

    I think the Chinese numbers are larger than you might think.  As I have said before, the last 3 condos I sold were to Chinese buyers.  Most of the buyers that came to look at the condos were also Chinese.  They have money to buy at the 3.5 MB price point and also the over 10 MB level.  
    My partner and I just bought a getaway condo in a new project in Bangkok.  The project's foreign quota sold out--mostly to Chinese buyers. The other weekend we went to another new Bangkok project to look at the models--almost all the other people going through the models were Chinese. I was the only Caucasian and my partner was the only Thai that we saw.   We've seen the same thing when we visit condo model projects in Pattaya--and not just the huge multi-building One project in south Jomtien Beach that has a Chinese developer partner and seems totally geared to Chinese buyers.  Recent condo sales by several friends have also been to Chinese buyers.  

The Chinese are absolutely buying up the world, and the Thais are happy to have the money. And we are just discussing here the assets approved for foreign ownership.

Never mind all the assets now illegally owned in Thailand through strawmen. Like that Phoenix ferry.

I was in Khao Yai a couple years ago. There were so many Chinese developers in town looking to cut deals, or managing active developments. I was leaving China for a holiday and was surrounded by Chinese. In bloody Khao Yai!

It was an absolute boom town. I assume the same is true for most property developments in the more touristy or luxurious areas of Thailand.