National Police Chief Questions Murder Suspect Of Russian Tourists

[Mobi]

If anyone accuses the poor victims of being prostitutes, the thread will be closed.

But somehow, you guys have still manged to turn it into a dicussion on sex and prostitution.

Strange....

[DrDweeb]

If anyone accuses the poor victims of being prostitutes, the thread will be closed.

But somehow, you guys have still manged to turn it into a dicussion on sex and prostitution.

Strange....

"a Russian witness had said that one of the murdered women had had a conflict with her husband before she left for her relaxation trip to Thailand." Bangkok Post.

Does anyone elase read this as suggesting she may have been whacked by long distance ?

[Briggsy]

If anyone accuses the poor victims of being prostitutes, the thread will be closed.

But somehow, you guys have still manged to turn it into a dicussion on sex and prostitution.

Strange....

"a Russian witness had said that one of the murdered women had had a conflict with her husband before she left for her relaxation trip to Thailand." Bangkok Post.

Does anyone elase read this as suggesting she may have been whacked by long distance ?

Of course, this is what the writer in the Post was suggesting. There is also the suggestion/theory that the murders were ordered by the jealous Thai wife of a man with whom the girls had taken a trip. I would have thought it was easier for a Pattaya resident and Thai national to arrange a murder in Pattaya,Thailand than a Russian who had probably never been here.

[DrDweeb]

If anyone accuses the poor victims of being prostitutes, the thread will be closed.

But somehow, you guys have still manged to turn it into a dicussion on sex and prostitution.

Strange....

"a Russian witness had said that one of the murdered women had had a conflict with her husband before she left for her relaxation trip to Thailand." Bangkok Post.

Does anyone elase read this as suggesting she may have been whacked by long distance ?

Of course, this is what the writer in the Post was suggesting. There is also the suggestion/theory that the murders were ordered by the jealous Thai wife of a man with whom the girls had taken a trip. I would have thought it was easier for a Pattaya resident and Thai national to arrange a murder in Pattaya,Thailand than a Russian who had probably never been here.

Depends who you know.

Really, there are so many clues and unanswered information.

Who paid for their tickets?

With whom had they spoken frequently in Pattaya?

DI Plod is on the job no doubt. We shall see what the coming week brings.

[Briggsy]

Depends who you know.

Really, there are so many clues and unanswered information.

Who paid for their tickets?

With whom had they spoken frequently in Pattaya?

DI Plod is on the job no doubt. We shall see what the coming week brings.

Indeed. However, I know who my money is on.

[mitrapaap]

I think most people are cynical of the Thai Police as they act with lightning speed in making arrests when "face" is involved or the tourist industry needs protecting. (i.e vested interests). At other times when a person of influence is involved in a crime there is a total lack of interest in solving anything and scape goats are the only people arrested.

The Police spokesman also forgot to mention the biggest mafia gang of all in Thailand is the Thai police. If you weeded out all the crooks in khaki, the crime rate in Thailand would be cut in half.

When was the last time an influential person in Thailand actually went to jail for a crime?

How can you respect a justice system that only jails the poor?

There is not one gambling den, not one brothel, not one drug dealer that operates in Thailand without the police being paid off.

Thai people usually say being involved with the Thai police is like raising cobras. Oneday you will get bitten.

Not sure whether we are in the same country as I have never seen a Thai police officer in khaki. Okay, let's not neat pick. If you can't repsect a justice that only jails the poor, then you probably can't respect any justice on this planet. I would say as long as they don't jail innocents (as happened in more sophisticated justice systems) I can live with it.

[mitrapaap]

Mr. Anuchit was apprehended by police on Thursday and initially confessed to police that he had murdered the Russian women, Tatiana Tsimfer, 30, and Liubov Svirkova, 25, after they resisted being robbed.

The two were found shot dead in their deckchairs in the eastern resort of Jomtien early on the morning of February 24.

Really? They were resisting the robbery from their deck chairs? So ... two girls sitting in deck chairs, probably in bikinis and wearing sunglassess, possibly listing to their walkmans while drinking a beer fought with the thief to such a degree that he had to shoot them both dead .... while they were still laying out in their deck chairs .... hmmm .... Officer? That's the dumbest thing I've heard since the coup!

Virgil, Out!

Resisting the robbery from the deck chairs, bikinis, sunglasses, walkman, drinking a beer... (at 5am) all made up by yourself, so don't blame the police officer for the nonsense you wrote yourself.

[joskydive]

Mr. Anuchit was apprehended by police on Thursday and initially confessed to police that he had murdered the Russian women, Tatiana Tsimfer, 30, and Liubov Svirkova, 25, after they resisted being robbed.

The two were found shot dead in their deckchairs in the eastern resort of Jomtien early on the morning of February 24.

Really? They were resisting the robbery from their deck chairs? So ... two girls sitting in deck chairs, probably in bikinis and wearing sunglassess, possibly listing to their walkmans while drinking a beer fought with the thief to such a degree that he had to shoot them both dead .... while they were still laying out in their deck chairs .... hmmm .... Officer? That's the dumbest thing I've heard since the coup!

Virgil, Out!

Resisting the robbery from the deck chairs, bikinis, sunglasses, walkman, drinking a beer... (at 5am) all made up by yourself, so don't blame the police officer for the nonsense you wrote yourself.

Thank goodness we are back onto the topic again! I'm sure I have read somewhere that the police have now arrested two more males involved in this incidence.

1. For the murders

2. The owner of the motorbike

3. The person who got rid of the gun after the event

Am I wrong?

[jomtienhotmale]

This thread has raised and missed so many points.

Thailand, generally, has an excellent reputation as being a safe and friendly tourist destination. Little may have been openly said about two attractive women, dressed in beach wear, being on a quiet beach at 5.30 in the morning, something which is not the norm for decent women in western expectations, but eye brows were raised. However, that is (or was) the nature of Thailand. That it does (or did?) have a safe reputation. That two attractive women could be on the beach at 5.30 in the morning.

Where was the beach vendor? Probably, like me, at home asleep, I would guess.

Pattaya in particular has seen a rise in street crime in the last year or so not only against tourists and expats alike but Thais too. The local and national police are aware of this and paid particular attention to the Russian women tourist who was shot in the back recently in Jomtien. This double murder now raises that unwelcome profile. As such, the pressure upon them to find a culprit must be huge.

The simple fact that street crime has not been completely addressed is that Pattaya does not have enough police and Pattaya is so geographically large. The (NYC) zero tolerance program would never get off the ground in Pattaya or ANY Thai town or city because of a laxidasical attitude to the law is the Thai norm. Corruption IS an everyday experience. The use of naval police and volunteers to boost police presence this year may have a calming affect in some areas, but the location of this crime was not remotely central or busy. Indeed it was within 300 metres of the border of the city. Much can be learnt about this individual crime from pattayadailynews.com for those wanting a more informed and local unbiased opinion.

The Thais Government seems to have an uncanny ability to only learn from their worst mistakes. To lose the Russian - or for that matter any other nationality - tourist market would be a disaster. It would have a knock on effect internationally. I do seriously wonder though, statistically, the number of deaths, robberies or acts of violence against tourists and expats in Thailand, is it really higher proportionally than say to tourists in France or any other country for that matter? I have never felt un-safe in Thailand which is more than I can say about my home country.

The difference to these awful deaths rather than any other murders in an other country, is it is unusual in Thailand. It is not the norm. It does raise headlines worldwide. That in itself is another tragedy. That street crime has not been checked in Pattaya could become its downfall.

[suiging]

The death by murder of any person is a horror beyond words. However, a bit like harvesting organs to save life from tragic accident victims, some good may come of this tragedy, if the powers that be finally address issues of public security making the city a better place for all. If this comes about, these girls will be forever remembered as the start of the long overdue process. It may give them some peace.

[joskydive]

The death by murder of any person is a horror beyond words. However, a bit like harvesting organs to save life from tragic accident victims, some good may come of this tragedy, if the powers that be finally address issues of public security making the city a better place for all. If this comes about, these girls will be forever remembered as the start of the long overdue process. It may give them some peace.

I agree with you holeheartedly.

Have you taken a look at the Pattaya New clippings. There are some very interesting theories there about what might have happened to these two girls. i.e.

they weren't killed on the beach atall, just placed there for effect.

The Thai wife being jealous that her Russian husband might prefer one of the girls to her so paid to have them shot

The mind boggles, I just hope they have real killer(s) under lock and key either now or as soon as possible. This is scary

[LaoPo]

It has been a few days since one (or more) supect(s) has/have been arrested. I didn't see any follow up or is there another thread running?

Any news?

LaoPo

[wilko]

Isn't it incredible?

THe top policeman interviews the number one suspect.....what on earth are we to make of that? Do we assume that every single one of his staff are incompetant and he has to do it himself? What sort of interview was it? What did he hope to achieve over and above what his detectives have already done, or is this just a pointless publicity stunt?

[suiging]

Isn't it incredible?

THe top policeman interviews the number one suspect.....what on earth are we to make of that? Do we assume that every single one of his staff are incompetant and he has to do it himself? What sort of interview was it? What did he hope to achieve over and above what his detectives have already done, or is this just a pointless publicity stunt?

I imagine just like anywhere else to get to be the top policeman you have to be well conected, politically astute, and avoided a great deal of the dirt involved in nasty investigations as some of it always sticks. Hence I'm with you and the publicity thing.

However, the message was not " look the best cops on the case", as to be top man I'm 99% sure he ain't the best cop. The message could well be " Oi you lot in Patters......pull your finger out and start to sort your mess, or others will be sent to do it for you...........result: loss of little earners all round".

I for one am very happy that he chose to come if the later gets through.

[LaoPo]

Bump.

What happened to/with the suspect(s) of the two murdered Russian ladies?

I wonder why this high profile case hasn't any follow-up since more than a week now....

LaoPo

[bulmercke]

This case has followed a very predicatble path. However the perpetrator/perpetrators still remain at large.

Strange?

Everyone I have spoken to about this case believes it was a mafia hit - I won't elaborate.

The police have, not surprisingly, come up against a stone-wall.

However, I have upmost confidence in the new acting police chief for Thailand.

There is no doubt whatsoever that he is aware of the 'mutually advantageous' and cosy relationship that exists between certain elements of the so-called western 'business community' in Pattaya and the BIB based there - with the majority - if not all - of the most senior officers having shamelessly bought their positions there in return for the very lucrative financial returns a stationing there earns.

There will be a major development in this case in the future - there has to be - the acting police chief's reputation now depends on it - but when?

That's another question!

The big boys within the constabulary are going to have to slug this one out.

As things stand at the moment - no one can be at all satisfied with developments - there hasn't been the break through that everyone optimistically hoped for a few weeks back.

This could be a watershed case for Pattaya's 'law enforcement' agencies.

[libya 115]

******NEWS******UPDATE******

March 20th 2007

Source: Pattaya Daily News: March 20th 2007:

PATTAYA POLICE OFFICER REVEALS KEY EVIDENCE IN THE CONTINUING RUSSIAN MURDER INVESTIGATION

This is an account of the Pattaya Daily News Editor’s interview with a high ranking police officer at Pattaya Police Station, recently.

Q1. Why wasn’t the CCTV video footage shown to the general public of the shop where the girls went to buy the whisky?

A. Because it would have constituted unwarranted advertising for the shop in question. Plus the fact that it was still considered too crucial to the case. However, it would more than likely have been allowed to be shown after the court case.

Q2. Why weren’t the photos of the Russian ladies’ room shown just to see how they had left their last change of clothes on the bed or elsewhere in the room? This would have been evidence, wouldn’t it, to show that they: a) had actually been back to the room from being outside; had had a quick change of clothes, or at least taken their trousers off; had gone straight to the shop, bought drinks and then gone to the deck chairs on the beach nearby?

A. Yes, we had all the photos from the room and sufficient evidence to prove that the ladies were shot on the beach. However, as this was essential evidence, it was not possible to publish this in the public domain. Nevertheless, at this stage in the proceedings, we are prepared to let you the editor see some of the photos.

Q3. How were you able to arrest the murderer so quickly?

A. Because the reward was so high. Actually, half a million Baht is an extremely large amount of money for any petty criminal, or informer, for that matter. Let’s consider this point in more depth. Generally, a person can be killed for an extremely small amount of money. In many cases in the past, people have been shot for an extremely small amount of money. I mean, it’s possible to hire a gunman very cheaply. Speaking about this guy, Anuchit, he had a history of criminal convictions. The last one that he was involved in, especially, will mean a 4-year term in jail. While he was waiting for his impending imprisonment, he could easily have thought about how to make some fast money. In this case, it’s completely stupid, but he simply wanted to rob the girls; exactly as he said. And although this case is now closed, the investigation is not finished, by any means.

Q4. Is Anuchit still in “in Nong Pla Lai “now?

A. Yes, he is being held temporarily in a local jail in Nong Pla Lai and he will be taken to court as soon as possible. However, the police can only present so much evidence at this time, it all depends on the judge whether he’s convicted or not.

Q5. What about the rumour that there might be someone behind the killing, I mean that someone paid him to shoot them? Is it possible that if somebody hired him to kill the Russian ladies that he could get paid double, once from the hirer and then from the reward money? That is, if he, or someone in collusion with him, turned him in to the police, they could share the reward, couldn’t they?

A. Let's take those suggestions and a few more, point by point.

a) As for someone else being behind the killing, there isn't enough evidence to prove it one way or the other, it's only a rumour.

b There were no actual photos of the killing itself on that night. The only ones we have are those that everybody published.

c) You interviewed him- the killer – yourself, many times. You can see that he is just an ordinary criminal; this is not his first offence. You also have to understand that this case is not unusual in terms of criminal cases worldwide. There are killings everywhere. Sometimes, in our cases, we cannot explain the incidents to everybody’s satisfaction, but we can assure you that we all working extremely hard to solve this particular case. It appears there is nothing or no one else behind this crime. The guy confessed and we have to leave the case to the procedures of the court. But, of course, we are still examining every other possibility in the case, as well.

Q6. One final question. Why can’t you catch the other criminals as fast as this one? Can the government provide some kind of budget for this?

A Well, in this case 500,000 Baht was donated by interested local groups and individuals such as the Tourism Authority of Thailand, hotel owners and individual supporters of the police. Unfortunately, we don’t have that kind of money just lying around to help us solve cases like that. It would be very nice if we did have that level of supporting, but as yet we don’t.

Editor: Thank you very much for allowing me to interview you and for all the help and consideration you have shown me.

Police Officer: That’s quite all right, we’re here to serve the public and are doing our best to uphold law and order in Pattaya.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comments from the Editor:

In cases such as this, there could be far worse scenarios. For instance, criminals and their cronies could actually stage manage incidents such as this: committing the crime, getting their friends to turn them in and then all sharing the reward, having to stay in jail for 2 years, let’s say for 300,000 Baht which is still considerably better than living outside and earning 3000 Baht a month, plus being harassed by the police. NB this is only a hypothetical example of what might be going on, we’re not actually saying that this occurred in the case in question.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Further Comments from the Editor:

We have done our utmost to bring developments in this case to our readers’ attention because we consider the general public should be apprised of all the facts. We have done this in the public interest, but we are also concerned to acquaint tourists of whatever nationality with the dangers in an apparently innocuous city. Take care, act sensibly and don’t suspend your instincts for self-preservation, merely because you come to enjoy yourselves in our tropical paradise. Like everywhere else on earth, there are criminal elements that are just looking for the opportunity to pounce. Don’t give them the satisfaction and don’t take ridiculous chances.

We will continue to do our utmost to follow this and every other incident for the public’s benefit. However, we should also like to thank the Pattaya Police for all the help they have given us and heartily commend their good efforts in the face of often, almost insuperable odds. Keep it up guys; you’re doing a great job to keep this city safe. Also, in the spirit of community watch, we would advise anyone who is witness to any remotely criminal act to notify the police immediately. By so doing, you, too, will be making a positive contribution to helping keep this city safe for all its residents and visitors.

Edited March 20, 2007 by libya 115

[COBBER]

This murder case had "hit" written all over it. To conclude that it was an attempted robbery gone wrong is just plain ludicrous. Who are the bib trying to fool.

[knockoutrock]

Me scratch my head regarding, one woman was shot in the back and the other

was shot from the front. At least that was what the news said from different

sources, but when the suspected killer did the reenactment (spelling) it looks

like both where shot from the back

[wpcoe]

Me scratch my head regarding, one woman was shot in the back and the other

was shot from the front. At least that was what the news said from different

sources, but when the suspected killer did the reenactment (spelling) it looks

like both where shot from the back

Stop the head scratching. One of the (many) threads here had pictures from the surveillance video: He started firing while he was behind them, then circled around to the front where he apparently fired some more, all within the nine seconds he was away from his motorbike.

[taxexile]

good to see some updates on this case.

[bulmercke]

This case stinks.

Thanks libya 115 for posting the above interview with a senior Pattaya police officer.

How come he doesn't one time alude to or mention that considering the very suspicious circumstances and all the available evidence there could be a third party behind these shocking murders?

His whole argument is that there was a lone hit man who needed dosh - very convenient, indeed!

Look how this senior police officer tries to justify closing the case without any real and proper investigation which everyone is screaming for you.

>>>>>>>>>

Q5. What about the rumour that there might be someone behind the killing, I mean that someone paid him to shoot them? Is it possible that if somebody hired him to kill the Russian ladies that he could get paid double, once from the hirer and then from the reward money? That is, if he, or someone in collusion with him, turned him in to the police, they could share the reward, couldn’t they?

A. Let's take those suggestions and a few more, point by point.

a) As for someone else being behind the killing, there isn't enough evidence to prove it one way or the other, it's only a rumour.

b There were no actual photos of the killing itself on that night. The only ones we have are those that everybody published.

c) You interviewed him- the killer – yourself, many times. You can see that he is just an ordinary criminal; this is not his first offence. You also have to understand that this case is not unusual in terms of criminal cases worldwide. There are killings everywhere. Sometimes, in our cases, we cannot explain the incidents to everybody’s satisfaction, but we can assure you that we all working extremely hard to solve this particular case. It appears there is nothing or no one else behind this crime. The guy confessed and we have to leave the case to the procedures of the court. But, of course, we are still examining every other possibility in the case, as well.

>>>>>>>>>>

Is the accused killer even the real killer?

Quote: "we are still examining every other possibility in the case"

Yeah. Right. Sure.

[Khun ?]

If it was a assisnation would there not be head and chest shots. He seen them spend money at the store and followed them and waited for the time to rob them. He stood on the side of a tree as the pictures show that were posted. Is 9 sec the time he was out of camera view or away from his bike?

Would not doubt he was involved in other such cases recently in the same area and female.

Pattaya has few role models to look up to in the community. When they start dealing out harsh

and in public view punishment for corruption and crime in a short time everything is back to usual.

[Luckydog]

I think most people are cynical of the Thai Police as they act with lightning speed in making arrests when "face" is involved or the tourist industry needs protecting. (i.e vested interests). At other times when a person of influence is involved in a crime there is a total lack of interest in solving anything and scape goats are the only people arrested.

The Police spokesman also forgot to mention the biggest mafia gang of all in Thailand is the Thai police. If you weeded out all the crooks in khaki, the crime rate in Thailand would be cut in half.

When was the last time an influential person in Thailand actually went to jail for a crime?

How can you respect a justice system that only jails the poor?

There is not one gambling den, not one brothel, not one drug dealer that operates in Thailand without the police being paid off.

Thai people usually say being involved with the Thai police is like raising cobras. Oneday you will get bitten.

No Newspaper in Pattaya could print stuff like this!

[Luckydog]

I see that you have added another post while I was writing this.

I suggest you start another thread on this subject as this one is being hijacked.

I know I'm right in what I say and you think you are right as well.

I can only write about what I have learnt by speaking to Thais.

EDIT............and yes, I DID want to have sex with my mum's friends, didn't everyone?

No. But a lot of lads wanted to have sex with my Mum!

[loong]

Deleted - my mistake

Edited April 9, 2007 by loong

[mikethevigoman]

Yeah, resisted robbery....7 seconds .... my ass.

Why would anyone try to rob to women in deck chairs early morn on the beach? what would he hope to get.

I for one am sure it is more than meets the eye. Just to easy..

dont kid yourself, if you have a piece of gold on display and a wallet with anything in it you are a target in certain circumstances,( someone coming down off drugs is particulary dangerous ).these girls obviously put up a fight,. natural reaction maybe but, it cost them there lives,. rule number one, if you are held up and threatened with anything give up your possesions,as quick as possible,we all feel angry but beleive me its better to be a live coward than a dead hero ,..

[joskydive]

All their belongings were still with them when they were found.