Thai attitudes to very poor people

[dick dasterdly]

I bought a 'new' (i.e. second hand, but better than the original) samlor a week or so ago, and was looking for a very poor Thai person to give my old samlor.

 

To cut a long story, short - I saw an old Thai guy who was obviously very poor today, and so told him he could have my old samlor.

 

The reason I got rid of the old one is that it had to be used every couple of days, or it was very difficult to start.  As it hadn't been used for more than a week, it was obviously going to be incredibly difficult to start, so I asked a few Thais to help him.

 

They had zero interest in helping this very poor guy ☹️, and I had to ask the 'bike repair shop (for the second time) to come to my house to sort out the problem....

 

This incident has left a very bad taste in my mouth when it comes to Thais' attitude to the very poor amongst them.

[marcusarelus]

Brush is too wide.  Stereotyping does not work. 

[KennethSmiles]

They have no interest in helping the have not's, only interested in emulating the greedy and the well off. 

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, KennethSmiles said:

They have no interest in helping the have not's, only interested in emulating the greedy and the well off. 

You know the wrong people

https://www.ted.com/speakers/mechai_viravaidya

 

Since 1974, Mr. Mechai has initiated community-based family planning services, innovative poverty reduction and rural education programs, large-scale rural development and environmental programs, as well as groundbreaking HIV/AIDS prevention activities throughout Southeast Asia.

[dick dasterdly]

13 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Brush is too wide.  Stereotyping does not work. 

I hope you believe me when I say that I am not trying to stereotype.

 

I'm only talking about my experience this morning that left me dumbfounded....

[marcusarelus]

15 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I hope you believe me when I say that I am not trying to stereotype.

 

I'm only talking about my experience this morning that left me dumbfounded....

Sorry, I read the topic, "Thai attitudes to very poor people" and then your experience.  Seems to suggest a negative attitude of Thai people toward poor people. 

[Kenny202]

I had similar instances in a very poor village I lived in for 2 years. Any acts of kindness or good deeds were met with confusion, suspicion or requests for more. It was explained to me that Thais do not understand empathy or charity. They view this as either you want something in return, or that you are stupid and therefore an easy mark. Last straw I helped a lady with a sick child. Drove them to hospital, bought medicine etc. She came to our house the next day peddling some wild vegetable she got from the river. Still charged my missus 10 baht. Isaan people like to use the word share but somehow in thai it must translate to a one way transaction

[sanemax]

Maybe they couldnt fix the bike or didnt think that they could get it started and so didnt try and it had nothing to do with the mans lack of wealth ?

[dick dasterdly]

22 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Maybe they couldnt fix the bike or didnt think that they could get it started and so didnt try and it had nothing to do with the mans lack of wealth ?

They didn't even bother to try - until I pretty much 'forced' my local 'bike man to come to my house to fix the problem ☹️.

[Sheryl]

19 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I had similar instances in a very poor village I lived in for 2 years. Any acts of kindness or good deeds were met with confusion, suspicion or requests for more. It was explained to me that Thais do not understand empathy or charity. They view this as either you want something in return, or that you are stupid and therefore an easy mark. Last straw I helped a lady with a sick child. Drove them to hospital, bought medicine etc. She came to our house the next day peddling some wild vegetable she got from the river. Still charged my missus 10 baht. Isaan people like to use the word share but somehow in thai it must translate to a one way transaction

 

Absolute nonsense as regards Thais as a people.

 

Both empathy and charity are well understood and I do not find the percent of Thai people who practice them to be much different than people anywhere.

 

What you say may be true of the particular Thais you are dealing with but it is hardly true of Thais as a people.

 

They run the full gamut of types and characters. Selfish, selfless. Cruel, compassionate. etc

 

There may also be other issues at play, e.g. your motives may for some reason be being misconstrued or your actions not make sense to people as cosntituting charitable assistance.

 

As for the OP's story, I think most likely people either did not understand his plan to have the man make use of his samlor or may have felt it was clearly not going to work (and they could have been right on that score...not at all clear the man had any inclination or ability to make a go of being a samlor driver). Thais understand charity well enough, but development-type schemes less well...and sometimes the ones foreigners hatch aren't realistic to the situation or person for reasons they don't see buy that Thais easily can.

[dick dasterdly]

13 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Absolute nonsense as regards Thais as a people.

 

Both empathy and charity are well understood and I do not find the percent of Thai people who practice them to be much different than people anywhere.

 

What you say may be true of the particular Thais you are dealing with but it is hardly true of Thais as a people.

 

They run the full gamut of types and characters. Selfish, selfless. Cruel, compassionate. etc

 

There may also be other issues at play, e.g. your motives may for some reason be being misconstrued or your actions not make sense to people as cosntituting charitable assistance.

 

As for the OP's story, I think most likely people either did not understand his plan to have the man make use of his samlor or may have felt it was clearly not going to work (and they could have been right on that score...not at all clear the man had any inclination or ability to make a go of being a samlor driver). Thais understand charity well enough, but development-type schemes less well...and sometimes the ones foreigners hatch aren't realistic to the situation or person for reasons they don't see buy that Thais easily can.

"There may also be other issues at play, e.g. your motives may for some reason be being misconstrued or your actions not make sense to people as cosntituting charitable assistance."

 

Agree almost entirely with this part of your post.

 

The 'poor guy' undoubtedly initially thought I was a loonie!  But my 'bike repair guy' understood, even though he clearly found it incomprehensible.

 

My Thai neighbours also understood, and rushed in to help when I had problems,, but had no interest in helping the guy to whom I was giving my old samlor ☹️.

 

Edit - Everyone to their own, but I find this depressing.☹️

Edited April 4, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

Although to be fair, most of my friends also thought I was mad looking to give my old, unwanted samlor to a poor person, rather than selling it ☹️.

[Sheryl]

It sounds like none of them thought this scheme had a chance of working and if the man had no interest in being a samlor driver they may well have been right.

 

There may also have been factors regarding this man's situation of which they were aware but you were not...factors which made the idea even less viable and perhaps also impacted on whether this person was viewed as someone needing and deserving of assistance (e.g. alcoholism, drug addiction, criminal behavior, mental illness...)

 

Might be worth vetting any future such schemes with Thais who know the intended recipient in terms of whether it makes sense and is likely to help.

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Although to be fair, most of my friends also thought I was mad looking to give my old, unwanted samlor to a poor person, rather than selling it ☹️.

Are you looking for a bit of recognition , a "well done" and a pat on the back, for your kind selfless deed ? 

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It sounds like none of them thought this scheme had a chance of working and if the man had no interest in being a samlor driver they may well have been right.

 

There may also have been factors regarding this man's situation of which they were aware but you were not...factors which made the idea even less viable and perhaps also impacted on whether this person was viewed as someone needing and deserving of assistance (e.g. alcoholism, drug addiction, criminal behavior, mental illness...)

 

Might be worth vetting any future such schemes with Thais who know the intended recipient in terms of whether it makes sense and is likely to help.

What the hell are you going on about?!

 

I'm talking about giving away a samlor to a poor person who was thrilled to receive the gift!

 

I paid for 'my' local repair man to come out and get the samlor started.  Hopefully he also explained that it needs to be started every couple of days, or it's a nightmare to start.

 

But I doubt it, as he (like my neighbours) had no time at all for such a poor person ☹️.

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Are you looking for a bit of recognition , a "well done" and a pat on the back, for your kind selfless deed ? 

Hardly, I was very happy to finally find a poor person that would appreciate my old samlor.

 

I wouldn't have posted if the locals hadn't made it clear that they didn't care about the poor guy being given my samlor.

 

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

What the hell are you going on about?!

I'm talking about giving away a samlor to a poor person who was thrilled to receive the gift!

I paid for 'my' local repair man to come out and get the samlor started.  Hopefully he also explained that it needs to be started every couple of days, or it's a nightmare to start.

But I doubt it, as he (like my neighbours) had no time at all for such a poor person ☹️.

Yes, you have to pay for things to be fixed from a professional mechanic , you cannot expect a non mechanic to know what was wrong , why it wouldnt start and then be able to repair it  .

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, you have to pay for things to be fixed from a professional mechanic , you cannot expect a non mechanic to know what was wrong , why it wouldnt start and then be able to repair it  .

Don't ask me as I've no idea!

 

I bought a far better samlor with 'ignition' (?) start, and wanted my old samlor to go to a poor person.

 

edit - Is that hard to understand?

Edited April 4, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[isaanjohnno]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

bought a 'new' (i.e. second hand, but better than the original) samlor a week or so ago, and was looking for a very poor Thai person to give my old samlor.

 

To cut a long story, short - I saw an old Thai guy who was obviously very poor today, and so told him he could have my old samlor.

 

The reason I got rid of the old one is that it had to be used every couple of days, or it was very difficult to start.  As it hadn't been used for more than a week, it was obviously going to be incredibly difficult to start, so I asked a few Thais to help him.

 

They had zero interest in helping this very poor guy ☹️, and I had to ask the 'bike repair shop (for the second time) to come to my house to sort out the problem....

 

This incident has left a very bad taste in my mouth when it comes to Thais' attitude to the very poor amongst them.

Exactly- has been my experience also- only gotten worse over the last 10-15 years- prior to that it wasn't as blatant or un Buddhist 

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, isaanjohnno said:

Exactly- has been my experience also- only gotten worse over the last 10-15 years- prior to that it wasn't as blatant or un Buddhist 

I've only been here 12 years or so, and have had little to do with the genuinely poor.

 

Which is why it came as such a suprise to see the reaction of Thais to the genuinely poor ☹️.

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Don't ask me as I've no idea!

 

I bought a far better samlor with 'ignition' (?) start, and wanted my old samlor to go to a poor person.

 

edit - Is that hard to understand?

I quite understand that .

You have stated that you gave your old samlor to a poor person numerous times already .

I really do think that you are just looking for some praise about your heroic deed , you made the World a better place , it would be even better if more people were like you .

   CONGRATULATIONS and I shall remember your kind act when it comes to voting for poster of the year 

[dick dasterdly]

26 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I quite understand that .

You have stated that you gave your old samlor to a poor person numerous times already .

I really do think that you are just looking for some praise about your heroic deed , you made the World a better place , it would be even better if more people were like you .

   CONGRATULATIONS and I shall remember your kind act when it comes to voting for poster of the year 

I'm very sorry that you feel that way about me ☹️.

 

Some of us care. the locals - not so much......

Edited April 4, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[villagefarang]

It is very possible that this individual has a bad reputation in the community and people have good reason for not wanting to deal with him.  Your Thai would have to be very good and your knowledge of who’s who in the community extensive, to be able to make a judgment about their motivations.

 

Being too quick to judge with insufficient data often leads to bad judgments and incorrect assumptions.   Your story and assumptions leave me with many more questions than answers.

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

Absolute nonsense as regards Thais as a people.

 

Both empathy and charity are well understood and I do not find the percent of Thai people who practice them to be much different than people anywhere.

 

What you say may be true of the particular Thais you are dealing with but it is hardly true of Thais as a people.

 

They run the full gamut of types and characters. Selfish, selfless. Cruel, compassionate. etc

 

There may also be other issues at play, e.g. your motives may for some reason be being misconstrued or your actions not make sense to people as cosntituting charitable assistance.

 

As for the OP's story, I think most likely people either did not understand his plan to have the man make use of his samlor or may have felt it was clearly not going to work (and they could have been right on that score...not at all clear the man had any inclination or ability to make a go of being a samlor driver). Thais understand charity well enough, but development-type schemes less well...and sometimes the ones foreigners hatch aren't realistic to the situation or person for reasons they don't see buy that Thais easily can.

I'd suggest you have never lived in a remote Isaan village Sheryl. Of course deeds were misconstrued and therein lies the problem and my point. Kids across the road tagged along to the markets with us one time. Bought them some shoes, for no other reason than wanted to make them happy. Parents saw it apparently as a slight that I was suggesting they couldn't buy their kids shoes. Poor people have a thing about shoes apparently. Or the time I volunteered to buy 5000 baht of gravel to pave the track through the rice fields for the old ladies going to the temple. Assumed a few of the local blokes with tractors would pitch in, help together etc. Turned into a nightmare with everyone putting their hand out trying to exploit the situation. Or the time I bought a gas stove for the lady across the road because I'd see her come home of a night from 12 hours in the fields searching around for wood to make a fire to cook. Told the missus when the gas was out let me know and I'd have it filled for them. Apparently the husband thought I had designs on his wife...Or the time I cut the grass in front of about 6 neighbours homes as the poh jai baan had requested everyone have a tidy up because some government official was coming. Not one person said thank you. Could tell you 15 stories like that but those were my experiences. Not to say the people there weren't lovely..they were and I still have many friends there. It just all becomes a bit hard trying to help. Better off not to get involved. It all gets too hard and you are better off keeping to yourself. I never particularly wanted thanks or anything in return but never expected negative outcomes. Definite misunderstanding of the culture. And I can generalise in as much as I never saw one instance of a family helping another family in need, or more concerning kids in need. "not my problem". That was my experience anyway 

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, villagefarang said:

It is very possible that this individual has a bad reputation in the community and people have good reason for not wanting to deal with him.  Your Thai would have to be very good and your knowledge of who’s who in the community extensive, to be able to make a judgment about their motivations.

 

Being too quick to judge with insufficient data often leads to bad judgments and incorrect assumptions.   Your story and assumptions leave me with many more questions than answers.

You're desperately looking for excuses.

Edited April 4, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[StreetCowboy]

12 minutes ago, villagefarang said:

It is very possible that this individual has a bad reputation in the community and people have good reason for not wanting to deal with him.  Your Thai would have to be very good and your knowledge of who’s who in the community extensive, to be able to make a judgment about their motivations.

 

Being too quick to judge with insufficient data often leads to bad judgments and incorrect assumptions.   Your story and assumptions leave me with many more questions than answers.

Maybe they felt it reflected badly on the OP giving away such a rusty old samlor, and were embarrassed on his behalf.

 

Maybe now one of them is having to help the old fella get the samlor to the scrap dealer.

 

Who knows?

Maybe I could ask my wife.  Maybe the OP could do the same.  His wife, not mine.

 

I reckon Thais must be reasonably generous to very poor people, since there seems to be money to be made from begging and selling stuff at traffic light intersections.

 

SC

 

 

[Farangwithaplan]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

I'm talking about giving away a samlor to a poor person who was thrilled to receive the gift!

 

In fairness, you mentioned nothing of this in the initial post. And besides, what Sheryl mentioned still stands up. I'm not sure why people think Thai people are so different to the rest of humanity. There are a few different nationalist quirks as do all nationalities, but they all live, love, laugh, cry and have a full range of emotions just like everybody else in this world. Those emotions might just be triggered by different social situation to what you were nurtured to follow.

 

I was at a funeral not too long back and as we all went up to the casket, the family and the junior monks all started throwing little packages of money. Some guy, in need of a good wash and a feed who had been lurking on the sidelines of the temple, got straight into the crowd and bagged as many of those parcels as he could. No-one blinked an eye. This poor soul wandered off with  plastic shopping bag about a 3rd full of packages filled with coins.

 

I'd say if your blanket statement of "Thais' attitude to the very poor amongst them" were true, that poor urchin would have found himself in jail beaten to 10 different shades of purple. But he wasn't. And no one seemed to mind. In fact I think it gave more than a few a smile. It briefly had me laughing until a little bit of wee nearly came out.

 

Then it just left me with a smile knowing he was going to have a decent feed - at least for that day.

 

Why not ask the people in question why they were so negative to offer assistance? It will possibly answer all your questions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Farangwithaplan
added

[Farangwithaplan]

14 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You're desperately looking for excuses.

I'm not trying to be argumentative (I know I know), but from what I have read that poster is no more looking for excuses as you are looking for confirmation of your bias. A bias which is based on a very small sample set. The village dude is using universal understanding of basic human nature.

[baansgr]

Ill have it....where are you, ill even pay

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

Absolute nonsense as regards Thais as a people.

 

Both empathy and charity are well understood and I do not find the percent of Thai people who practice them to be much different than people anywhere.

 

What you say may be true of the particular Thais you are dealing with but it is hardly true of Thais as a people.

 

They run the full gamut of types and characters. Selfish, selfless. Cruel, compassionate. etc

 

There may also be other issues at play, e.g. your motives may for some reason be being misconstrued or your actions not make sense to people as cosntituting charitable assistance.

 

As for the OP's story, I think most likely people either did not understand his plan to have the man make use of his samlor or may have felt it was clearly not going to work (and they could have been right on that score...not at all clear the man had any inclination or ability to make a go of being a samlor driver). Thais understand charity well enough, but development-type schemes less well...and sometimes the ones foreigners hatch aren't realistic to the situation or person for reasons they don't see buy that Thais easily can.

Absolutely !!!

In the West you see people walking on the street and give a wide berth to those begging, or buskers. No one has a clue what those people have gone thru, or are going thru now. As the song says ...