Immigration busy fining Thais and foreigners - US man pays 5,000 baht fine for not doing 90 day report

[oobar]

"Life is short. Be sure to spend as much time as possible arguing on the internet with random strangers"

 

Good to see SammyT is following his mantra.

[CALSinCM]

Just now, ThomasThBKK said:

• If a foreigner staying in the kingdom over 90 days without notifying the Immigration Bureau or notifying the Immigration Bureau later than the set period, a fine of 2,000.- Baht will be collected. If a foreigner who did not make the notification of staying over 90 days is arrested, will be fined 5,000.- Baht and with an additional fine not exceeding 200.- Baht for each day which passes until the law is complied with.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=90days

 

 

same for tm30 btw.

Thanks.  Just curious.

[edwardflory]

As to the TM-30 as "POSSESSOR", it is best if you have with you at the IO:

1) LEASE / RENTAL AGREEMENT signed by both parties.

2) UTILITY bills, electric / water / Internet OR dated RECEIPTS for utility deposits

3) any mailed envelopes with your name and address

The #1 & #2 are the most important.

The TM-30 must be done within 24 hours of the new address.

 

Shack up in a hotel with your name as the guest, you need a TM-30 filed according to "the letter of the regulations"

 

LEARN THE RULES, REGULATIONS so you don't get fined - if you don't like to comply with them, leave.

 

YOU are RESPONSIBLE to see that ALL your paperwork is in order per the regulations, if not, YOU pay the fine and the ding is on YOUR computer Immigration record.

 

I have a friend that is 27,000THB poorer because of fines.

 

I will also say, learn the requirements of your LOCAL IO

Edited June 13, 2019 by edwardflory
information

[Date Masamune]

23 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

That's the plan. Out with the foreigners, and Immigration staff no need to do any work anymore.

With no more frangs to finn and fleece then what,  back to work in the rice fields?

[jmccarty]

I paid a 2,000 baht fine for forgetting to report on time, I may have missed it by a day or 2 some time last year and did not know it was a fine until I looked at the receipt just now.  Wonder if it has any long term effect?

[milesinnz]

5 hours ago, SammyT said:

Surely move to London then, if you love it that much? Or would you rather stay here and complain about everything, just because the cost of living and the cost of romance is cheaper? Take the good with the bad, my friend. 

I am just a visitor a couple of times a year (and I find all this officialdom onerous).. sadly over the years I have made many good Thai friends, and it's hard just to ditch them, but I guess that comes easy with your outlook on life....

[kritsana77]

5 hours ago, SammyT said:

Or just leave if you despise it that much? I presume you hate your home country more? I struggle to see how a 90 day check in is everything to do with revenue when it costs literally nothing if you do it every 90 days. 

I think you have not lived here very long (less that five tears) and struggle to see the reality of what being a foreigner in this country really means.  Citizens reporting a person they are renting to and people with visas who have to report a single night they stay from their primary residence. You can have it.

[rexall]

5 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Maybe on the lower end of the market where there are plenty of Thais they could rent to instead. On the higher end though they might not have much of a choice.

That would be in direct proportion to how inconvenient is is for the owner to file the TM30, such as some who travels or actually resides at some distance from the rental property.

[rexall]

5 hours ago, lazeeboy said:

I was registered and stayed at a hotel one night next 90 day report fined 1600 baht 

You were fined B1,600 for do what ( or not doing what) exactly?

[Fairynuff]

58 minutes ago, evadgib said:

90 day reports generate nothing except unnecessary man hours. Redundancies might help although I doubt if that was the answer you were looking for.

I wasn’t looking for an answer, I was just stating the obvious.

[rexall]

5 hours ago, SammyT said:

Surely move to London then, if you love it that much? Or would you rather stay here and complain about everything, just because the cost of living and the cost of romance is cheaper? Take the good with the bad, my friend. 

You are only going to give the guy two choices?  Surely you are more creative than that!

[Fairynuff]

I’ve never done a 90 day report, I’ve never done a TM30. I never stay in the country long enough to do 90DR. In fact I’m rarely here more than 6 weeks. The prospect of endless TM30s or paying fines just because I travel both in and outside of the country isn’t very appealing. I may well listen to the fools whose first response will be “if you don’t like it go home”. This has been home for many years but it’s starting to feel like I’m an intruder in someone else’s home, or perhaps I always was.

[rexall]

5 hours ago, essox essox said:

can not one do 90 day report ONLINE????

You know, I have mixed feelings about putting this stuff online and making it easy.  It may be easier, but it is the same draconian principle at work, lull you into a false sense of security like the little froggies in the cook pot slowly brought to a boil.????????????

[beautifulthailand99]

6 hours ago, SammyT said:

 

Yes they will. Just the lazy ones won't. My landlords during my time in Thailand have been great, and fully compliant with the law. In return I treat his house with respect. It's a relationship that works well.  

Though it's a double hit - one the immigration fine and second sniff out rental income for taxes. Sneaky stuff and plenty of work for immigration and the tax office now. 

[Stoker58]

Here’s the thing that gets me. They can put all this effort into enforcing a completely pointless requirement because it means taking money off farangs, but they’re completely incapable of enforcing road safety that costs the lives of at least 60 Thai human beings every single day.

  No helmets, no seatbelts, riding in the back of pickups? No, go and spend your time checking where the farang spends every night.

[Fairynuff]

2 minutes ago, Stoker58 said:

Here’s the thing that gets me. They can put all this effort into enforcing a completely pointless requirement because it means taking money off farangs, but they’re completely incapable of enforcing road safety that costs the lives of at least 60 Thai human beings every single day.

  No helmets, no seatbelts, riding in the back of pickups? No, go and spend your time checking where the farang spends every night.

Oh boy are you gonna get bashed for such a sensible comment

[Gecko123]

5 hours ago, SammyT said:

Or just leave if you despise it that much? I presume you hate your home country more? I struggle to see how a 90 day check in is everything to do with revenue when it costs literally nothing if you do it every 90 days. 

And by the way, Sammy, the 90 day report doesn't "literally cost nothing." In many regional offices, the online 90 day reporting doesn't work, so the only reporting options are by mail or in person. I live 120 km away from my IO office, so the most convenient method for me is to report by mail.

 

To report by mail, you need to photocopy relevant passport pages, fill out the application, address an envelope, complete a self-addressed stamped return envelope, and send the report by registered mail to your IO. This usually requires a trip to a photocopy shop and a trip to the post office. Roundtrip gas to the photocopy shop & post office in my case is around 35 baht.  The photocopies are around 10 baht, the return envelope is 10 baht, and the registered mail is 23 baht. Grand total 78 baht or 312 baht/year.

 

Not a lot of money, but then there's the cost of my time completing the form, photocopying documents, mailing the application, safekeeping the postal receipt, setting calendar reminders to make sure the updated receipt of notification has been received, and setting a new calendar reminder for when the next report is due. I would say, conservatively, if you added all this up, it probably takes me around 1 hour to do this each time, or half a day per year to fulfill this requirement.

 

Individually, the money and time may not seem like much, but when you consider the aggregate amount of time and money spent not only by foreigners but by immigration in processing these reports, and compare it to the questionable benefit received from these reports, from an efficiency standpoint it's a colossal waste of time, especially when this hyper-enforcement for foreigners is contrasted with the extremely lax enforcement of residency reporting laws for Thai nationals.

 

I trust this explanation gives you a better appreciation as to why people are frustrated with immigration's overlapping reporting requirements.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Gecko123

[ThomasThBKK]

If they really want to earn money, maybe go after the tax evasion here. Most landlords don't pay anything in taxes.

 

In case people here don't know it, if your landlord isn't a thai tax residence, the withholding tax is your onus too - so move somewhere with a thai living landlord to not have this burden on you. 

 

29 minutes ago, edwardflory said:

As to the TM-30 as "POSSESSOR", it is best if you have with you at the IO:

1) LEASE / RENTAL AGREEMENT signed by both parties.

2) UTILITY bills, electric / water / Internet OR dated RECEIPTS for utility deposits

3) any mailed envelopes with your name and address

The #1 & #2 are the most important.

The TM-30 must be done within 24 hours of the new address.

 

Shack up in a hotel with your name as the guest, you need a TM-30 filed according to "the letter of the regulations"

 

LEARN THE RULES, REGULATIONS so you don't get fined - if you don't like to comply with them, leave.

 

YOU are RESPONSIBLE to see that ALL your paperwork is in order per the regulations, if not, YOU pay the fine and the ding is on YOUR computer Immigration record.

 

I have a friend that is 27,000THB poorer because of fines.

 

I will also say, learn the requirements of your LOCAL IO

 

Ok, why don't you tell that to the landlords? The tm30 onus is not on the renter, it's just convenient to fine him instead.

There's no way to sign up to the online reporting without having the landlords housebook and co.

How people that actually work here and would need to take a day vacation to go to immigration every time comply with this if the landlord doesn't cooperate is beyong anyones imagination.

 

So why not go out, talk to all landlords in thailand and make them finally abide by the law? Taxes, Immigration reports, New rental laws etc.

There's some work todo for you ???? 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[rexall]

5 hours ago, SammyT said:

Nope, if you come on an open forum and discuss how much you hate the Thai law enforcement but loved British law enforcement, it's a logical question to ask why you don't leave the country you appear to hate so much. If those sorts of questions bother you, I'd suggest you take your own advice? As you said, it's an open forum. 

 

Every expat knows the 90 day reporting rule. Some choose to ignore it so immigration target them. It's not really the robbery you suggested. 

It is not even remotely a "logical question." It is passive-aggressive BS. If you don't like reading opinions you don't care for, why don't YOU move to London? Hell, it's a logical question!  

[asiaexpat]

6 hours ago, SammyT said:

Do your 90 day check in then, like the rest of us do. It's not rocket science. It's not even particularly hard.  

90 day report (TM47) does not replace the TM30 requirement. 

[moto77]

Every time i read these threads I’m more convinced that my decision to abandon residency in Thailand in 2016 was the right move. Three years later and the same complainers are still complaining about the same things, while the same starry-eyed Thai fans are still telling the complainers to shut up and live with the latest batch of silly regulations from an incompetent administration. It makes for entertaining reading. ????

 

I still visit Thailand once or (at most) twice per year, but I’m loving the nomadic life and would urge some of you folks that are fed up with the nonsense to give nomading some consideration.

 

I’ve been to more than 30 countries since then, and I’m currently writing from a condo in Costa Rica—a lovely and lively place. My previous port of call was Uruguay, and before that I spent some time on Easter Island. Been to Boracay earlier this year, and it’s better than any beach resort in Thailand now that they’ve rehabbed it. Bali isn’t as nice as Boracay, but it’s cheap and fun and has great food—I spent my December there. Colombia was also fantastic, with locals so friendly I think maybe that Land of Smiles designation might need to be revisited. Cape Town (and nearby Namibia) are two of the most beautiful places I’ve ever seen—and not that expensive. If you want the city life with mountains AND beaches, you can hardly do better than Cape Town. Looking for something closer to home? Spend some time in Vietnam—Hanoi has great food and a laid back lifestyle with lots of cool things to do nearby.

 

The bottom line is that complaining on message boards to other complainers is going to get you nowhere. If you’re happy there, I’m happy for you. If you’re not, there is a lot more to this world other than Thailand, and seeing it may not be as difficult as you think. I know I’ll pop in again next year and find 99% of the same complainers still complaining, but hopefully this will inspire someone to make a change for the better.

 

 Cheers!

Edited June 13, 2019 by moto77

[bkk6060]

6 hours ago, crickets said:

Have to go and wait 2 hours with a hand full of paperwork just for my friend to stay a few days at your house within 24hours. Understandable to do this if you could do it in English online but the anxiety of waiting and photocopying everything in that small office in Chonburi is just ridiculous. 

If the rules are that difficult for you to follow, then I suggest next time he book a hotel.

[rexall]

5 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

<snip>It's also that foreigners are the ones that are being forced to make the "landlord" comply with the TM-30 report, and that this report has to be refiled everytime you stay overnight in another province. Again, it is the foreigner who most often is being fined if the report is not properly filed, not the landlord. <snip>

The word "forced" here is appropriate.  If a Thai spouse is the owner, obviously, the falang does not want them to get fined, so must supervise the process, especially if spousey is not on the ball with those kind of details. Even if the owner is a strictly commercial relationship, and the falang is within his rights to insist that it is the owner's responsibility, the Thai owner may not bee to keen to continue renting to said falang after getting fined, especially if the TM30 is inconvenient for owners who are no nearby. Still, it might help if enough Thai owners found this oppressive, and inconvenient and just plain silly.  Or maybe not.

[herwin1234]

you are not being "critical" not even mentioning the new(harsh) rules u r merely ranting about mafioso in Italy and police in London and how happy u r in London. the usual cynical unfair rant of another farang who chose to live here, married his favorite bargirl, is treated nice bythe Thai, yet knows nothing better to do than being an ungrateful dog to his new country. 

again, stupid remark about the police. and bottpm line,it still stands, if u r so happy in London and so unhappy here, nobody forces u to live here.

and thats totally different than being "critical".

[bkk6060]

35 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

With no more frangs to finn and fleece then what,  back to work in the rice fields?

No.

As there will be many jobs in the future catering to Chinese and other tourists.  In fact, a predict a shortage of tourism workers.

Sorry, but Falang priorities and wanting to be "treated like Kings" are a thing of the past.

 

 

[GeorgeCross]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

Thailand demanded cast iron guarantees that couldn't possibly be complied with; not least due to privacy laws in the real world and the increased man hours that would have entailed.

 

and yet 191 other countries managed to do it.

 

strange.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[Boatfreak]

I forgot to do my 9-year-old daughter 90 days. Paid 5000 baht fine too. I'll make sure next time she really misses school and goes to immigration, I guess I will have to go with her and leave work as well. The cost of running a business in Thailand I guess. 

[SammyT]

10 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

And by the way, Sammy, the 90 day report doesn't "literally cost nothing." In many regional offices, the online 90 day reporting doesn't work, so the only reporting options are by mail or in person. I live 120 km away from my IO office, so the most convenient method for me is to report by mail.

 

To report by mail, you need to photocopy relevant passport pages, fill out the application, address an envelope, complete a self-addressed stamped return envelope, and send the report by registered mail to your IO. This usually requires a trip to a photocopy shop and a trip to the post office. Roundtrip gas to the photocopy shop & post office in my case is around 35 baht.  The photocopies are around 10 baht, the return envelope is 10 baht, and the registered mail is 23 baht. Grand total 78 baht or 312 baht/year.

 

Not a lot of money, but then there's the cost of my time completing the form, photocopying documents, mailing the application, safekeeping the postal receipt, setting calendar reminders to make sure the updated receipt of notification has been received, and setting a new calendar reminder for when the next report is due. I would say, conservatively, if you added all this up, it probably takes me around 1 hour to do this each time, or half a day per year to fulfill this requirement.

 

Individually, the money and time may not seem like much, but when you consider the amount of time and money spent not only by foreigners but by immigration in processing these reports, and compare it to the  benefit received from these reports, from an efficiency standpoint it's a colossal waste of time, especially when this hyper-enforcement for foreigners is contrasted with the extremely lax enforcement of domicile reporting laws for Thai nationals.

 

I hope this explanation gives you a better appreciation as to why people are frustrated with immigration's overlapping reporting requirements.

A number of issues with this comment, in no particular order:

 

1) The original comment which I replied to was one which suggested the 90 day check in was a gravy train for immigration to make money. Nothing you suggested in your comment creates a profit for immigration. Yes, your photocopy shop and post office (and gas station) make money out of it, but immigration certainly don't. 

 

2) You talk about the cost of your time - are you in paid employment over here? If not, your time isn't really costing you anything because the half day isn't taking you away from work. If you are, I'm sure your employer like mine, understands the half day a year you spend doing this is just part and parcel of having foreigners working in Thailand.  

 

3) It looks petty and does your argument a huge disservice when you try to prove a point about photocopying costs and gas costs to get to your post office to photocopy things. I'm sure you are smart and double the trip up with a visit to your local supermarket or other errands, so I'm sure that 35 baht isn't completely wasted. 

 

4) I'm unsure why you compare foreign national reporting to Thai national reporting though. Most governments are significantly harder on reporting of non-citizens and non-residents in terms of knowing where they are, than they are on their own citizens. That is just prudent immigration policy in effect and I suspect most government around the world do it to some degree.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree the 90 day check in is generally a pointless exercise and not worth the effort that us and the IO go to. I'm just saying that the law has been in effect a long time and we knew that this is what the government expected of us when we moved here, so it is somewhat pointless acting like they are suddenly enforcing a new law by fining people, like many commenters on here have.  

[GalaxyMan]

6 hours ago, EricTh said:

There are still tons of foreigners who still want to stay long term in Thailand after all these harassment akin to a police state.

 

Is there some country these days that's not a police state? ????

[Gecko123]

16 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

treated like Kings

I don't know anyone who has ever expected to be treated like a king from immigration. I just don't like being treated like a runaway slave. Is that OK with you?

Edited June 13, 2019 by Gecko123
rephrasing