Bodies of 13 women found after migrant boat sinks in Mediterranean

[jany123]

3 hours ago, Mick501 said:

Oh, so is there a war in Tunisia going on?  We must quickly inform all those actually seeking refuge in Tunisia about this development.

 

 These are not refugees running from likely death, it is purely economic.

 

If the various governments receiving refugees of this nature had a policy of boat turn backs and off shore processing, it would dry up the human trafficking and prevent the untold amount of deaths at sea.  

 

Get off your moral superiority high horse and try to comprehend the issues involved.

Your repugnant comment was an attack on European leaders offering hope... Tunisia isn’t a part of Europe, nor included in your attack.

 

but... Tunisia is not considered a safe refuge by any standard, so I’m not it sure what your suggesting. Fleeing one unsafe area for another? Genius.

 

regards implementing rules to deny refugees a safe harbor.... what a lovely person you must be... your comment highlights the worst of human nature... a total lack of empathy... Ill stay atop my high horse for the time being, it keeps me clear of the scum lapping at the rim

[JamesBlond]

The solution to this problem involves discipline, not compassion. Compassion is a loophole that is brazenly exploited.

 

Interesting that the headline implies that women deserve more sympathy than men, presumably because they are weaker, both physically and emotionally. I agree that they do, and presumably everybody does. Now that we all understand that, can we please now do away with the absurd, concocted, and quite destructive notion of equality?

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by JamesBlond

[observer90210]

What are the Chinese waiting to invade those regions with factories, wholesale malls, all with underpaid labour force ? It will keep the migrants busy, give them jobs and somewhat of a reason not to leave their regions.

[dimitriv]

7 hours ago, khunken said:

It was triggered by the US, UK & France (main culprits) destroying the Libyan government of Ghaddafi thereby opening the door (removing the cork from the bottle as he said) to huge swathes of migrants & refugees departing for Europe.

 

 

Blaming these countries is not honest. The same was already happening before. Not from Libya but from other countries. Now Libya gets more difficult so they moved their smuggling operations to Tunesia. 

 

If you read the article it also says:  "The ship, which had set sail from Tunisia"   NOT Libya.

 

 

 

[Sujo]

5 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

I have little sympathy,when they can just turn up in Europe and just claim asylum and stay ,while pensioners cannot take their wives back because they dont get 18600 pounds a year.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yeah because its all about you innit.

[khunken]

14 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

Blaming these countries is not honest. The same was already happening before. Not from Libya but from other countries. Now Libya gets more difficult so they moved their smuggling operations to Tunesia. 

 

If you read the article it also says:  "The ship, which had set sail from Tunisia"   NOT Libya.

 

 

 

I know that. Don't be so lazy  - read all the posts between Nauseas & me and you'll find out that we were agruing about refugees & migrants coming into the EU from all around the ME and N. Africa.

[Opl]

4 hours ago, jany123 said:

Your repugnant comment was an attack on European leaders offering hope... Tunisia isn’t a part of Europe, nor included in your attack.

 

but... Tunisia is not considered a safe refuge by any standard, so I’m not it sure what your suggesting. Fleeing one unsafe area for another? Genius.

 

regards implementing rules to deny refugees a safe harbor.... what a lovely person you must be... your comment highlights the worst of human nature... a total lack of empathy... Ill stay atop my high horse for the time being, it keeps me clear of the scum lapping at the rim

"Tunisia is not considered a safe refuge by any standard"  but was still a destination for Thomas Cook holidaymakers? 

Migrants from Maghreb are economic migrants, and have strong connections with diasporas in the country they name "Mama Franssa".. themselves spend their vacations returning to the "bled" 

Illegal migrants are numerous among those communities  

Edited October 8, 2019 by Opl

[jany123]

22 minutes ago, Opl said:

"Tunisia is not considered a safe refuge by any standard"  but was still a destination for Thomas Cook holidaymakers? 

Migrants from Maghreb are economic migrants, and have strong connections with diasporas in the country they name "Mama Franssa".. themselves spend their vacations returning to the "bled" 

Illegal migrants are numerous among those communities  

Come now Opl.... really?

 

Afghanistan has higher tourists numbers recorded than Tunisia. And Iraq has way more than the Stan.... Just because a failed tour operator had a country listed as a destination, it does not make it safe... or smart to travel there. In fact, if an article was posted on this forum about a tourist incident in Tunisia, there would be pages of derogatory comments about the sanity of folk going there for recreational pursuits. It was bad enough when those women got murdered in Morocco not that long ago.

 

“migrants from Maghreb are economic tourists” is one hell of a statement. Some may be, but how do you tell which ones when they are when on a boat?... that’s what processing is for. Interview and return to sender, if a refugee is found to not qualify.

Edited October 8, 2019 by jany123

[dimitriv]

59 minutes ago, khunken said:

I know that. Don't be so lazy  - read all the posts between Nauseas & me and you'll find out that we were agruing about refugees & migrants coming into the EU from all around the ME and N. Africa.

 

I have read what you wrote:

 

It was triggered by the US, UK & France (main culprits) destroying the Libyan government of Ghaddafi thereby opening the door (removing the cork from the bottle as he said) to huge swathes of migrants & refugees departing for Europe. 

 

You accused some countries that destroyed the Libyan government and blamed them. Which is not fair. It is even a lie.

 

 

 

[khunken]

14 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

I have read what you wrote:

 

It was triggered by the US, UK & France (main culprits) destroying the Libyan government of Ghaddafi thereby opening the door (removing the cork from the bottle as he said) to huge swathes of migrants & refugees departing for Europe. 

 

You accused some countries that destroyed the Libyan government and blamed them. Which is not fair. It is even a lie.

 

 

 

No it is not a lie - it is a fact. Go and read up on how NATO (US, UK & France mainly) were supposed to prevent the Libyan air force from bombing the 'rebels' (many of whom turned out to be IS supporters) but instead carried out bombing missions against the Libyans, leading to Ghaddafi's death and the country becoming a failed state. That was the uncorking of the bottle.

You seem totally ignorant of what happened there. Do some research before posting any more rubbish.

[Zikomat]

I think, everybody should be allowed to arrive safely. Then , only those meeting certain criteria should be allowed to stay. All the rest should be sent back. Safely. And no islamic extremists of any kind (including those considered as extremists by their own governments) should be allowed in. Former Christians are the most compassionated folks out there, but there is no need to be stupid. Fanatics of any kind should  not be allowed!

 

[White Christmas13]

10 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

It's simple.  If you see refugees on television who work...  And we assume that employment statistics for Denmark and Netherlands are the same..   You see the 11%.  The 89% getting unemployment benefits and who are sitting at home watching television all day you will not see. Because they are at home. Inside. Getting free money every month.

 

It's not strange that a lot of people oppose more immigrants from African and or Muslim countries. It's a matter of money. Most do not contribute, you only see them in the crime statistics (link can be given upon request).

 

 

 

Now you are wrong again I am talking about Muslims who lived in Denmark

for many years and are danish citizen they have jobs  and pay their taxes.

[dimitriv]

2 minutes ago, khunken said:

 leading to Ghaddafi's death and the country becoming a failed state. That was the uncorking of the bottle.

 

 

Sorry, but you are posting rubbish.

 

What happened in Libya was no unlocking of the bottle. I still remember 35 years ago, I was 10 years old at that time. Refugees on television. They were already coming 35 years ago. It had nothing to do with Libya. Libya became a mess. And smugglers used Libya to take advantage of that for some time. Now it is more difficult in Libya. So now the refugees are using:

 

"The ship, which had set sail from Tunisia"

 

 

Refugees come, and what happened in Libya has nothing to do with that.

 

 

 

 

[khunken]

4 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

Sorry, but you are posting rubbish.

 

What happened in Libya was no unlocking of the bottle. I still remember 35 years ago, I was 10 years old at that time. Refugees on television. They were already coming 35 years ago. It had nothing to do with Libya. Libya became a mess. And smugglers used Libya to take advantage of that for some time. Now it is more difficult in Libya. So now the refugees are using:

 

"The ship, which had set sail from Tunisia"

 

 

Refugees come, and what happened in Libya has nothing to do with that.

 

 

 

 

Once again it is you who is posting disinformation (AKA lies) to support your right-wing agenda (pretty clear from your other pieces of excrement on this thread).

You are too damn lazy to do any research so here is some - that is if you can bring yourself to make the efford to read them:

https://www.foreignaffairs.com › articles › libya › obamas-libya-debacle

 

https://foreignpolicy.com › libya-and-the-myth-of-humanitarian-intervention

 

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › 2011_military_intervention_in_Libya

[dimitriv]

22 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

I think, everybody should be allowed to arrive safely. Then , only those meeting certain criteria should be allowed to stay.

 

This sounds so nice. And human also. When I was younger (and naive) I also believed in this.

 

Fact: There are 1,2 billion people in Africa. They expect this number to grow to 2 billion in the next 30 years.

 

Many people have nothing there. There is already not enough food now,  many have no education, no view on a better future. There is corruption and mismanagement. And climate change will make food shortages even worse.

 

Expect that 2 billion people from Africa would love to move to Europe in the next 30 years.

 

And statistics show that 89% will not work but stay at home living on unemployment benefits.  Immigration is not solution...

 

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by dimitriv

[Opl]

11 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

 

 

What is your suggestion? I mean, any other person in this world is my potential competitor. This is a billion years old concept. It is also quite primitive. What should we do with all those potential africans dreaming to live on 500 euro a month benefits? Another genocide or what?

1/ Thirld world countries with perpetual conflicts and tribal mentalities should think about controlling their population growth instead of letting it boom

2/ Europe should review its asylum laws according to the present situation,

3/ Europe should stop offering economical and social incentives to illegal migrations  

Edited October 8, 2019 by Opl

[dimitriv]

5 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

 

 

What is your suggestion? I mean, any other person in this world is my potential competitor. This is a billion years old concept. It is also quite primitive. What should we do with all those potential africans dreaming to live on 500 euro a month benefits? Another genocide or what?

 

I don't know...  But I do know that immigration is not a solution.

 

Try to imagine what will happen with Europe if we allow 2 billion immigrants to come. Europe will look like the Bangkok BTS in rush hour. 

 

There is not enough place for more houses in NL. And every house you build will mean that there is less space for agriculture. So there will not be enough food. Europe cannot accommodate so many immigrants. I see a dark future and no solutions.

 

I look with very mixed feelings at the aid organisations who try to get people from Africa by picking them up with boats close to the coast line. It is not a solution for anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gk10002000]

On 10/7/2019 at 6:57 AM, snoop1130 said:

he next largest group by nationality, were Pakistanis,

Interesting given that Pakistan is quite a bit away from Africa on the geography maps I look at.  That is quite a journey for some of them, depending on how they made the trip.  Leave from the coast of Pakistan and sail over to Africa, maybe up the Suez, or land cross many countries?  how many actually fly into Africa and then try the crossing to Italy?  Are these all working class people or middle class people?  Seems like it could be very expensive to make the trip

[dimitriv]

1 hour ago, White Christmas13 said:

OMG you have to get PR first or become Australian citizen

you don't get the benefits as soon you come of the airplane

or some other ways

 

Yes. And you will get it for free. Without contributing something first. 

 

[wisperone]

How many of you here welcoming these migrants to Europe have opened up your homes and wallets to taking in some of these people? None, just what I expected. Easy to be armchair do gooders when the expense falls on others. Italy is dieing in the process of dealing with these migrants. So are other European countries.  There is no end to it. Africa probably has the highest birth rate in the world, and they want them to be able to ship them off to Europe for a good life. Perhaps Thailand could open its arms to about 50million of them.  How many of the daily whiners "if you don't like it leave" Thailand are the ones saying Italy should take them. Truly pathetic. All of Europe has gone far beyond what should ever have been considered sympathetic response. That time has passed years ago.

[tgw]

6 minutes ago, wisperone said:

How many of you here welcoming these migrants to Europe have opened up your homes and wallets to taking in some of these people? None, just what I expected. Easy to be armchair do gooders when the expense falls on others. Italy is dieing in the process of dealing with these migrants. So are other European countries.  There is no end to it. Africa probably has the highest birth rate in the world, and they want them to be able to ship them off to Europe for a good life. Perhaps Thailand could open its arms to about 50million of them.  How many of the daily whiners "if you don't like it leave" Thailand are the ones saying Italy should take them. Truly pathetic. All of Europe has gone far beyond what should ever have been considered sympathetic response. That time has passed years ago.

well said!

[tgw]

personally, I think we should open all borders and let everyone in. that would teach a valuable lesson to many.

[Scott]

Numerous, inflammatory, troll, off-topic posts and replies removed.  

 

[ivor bigun]

Yeah because its all about you innit.

No,my wife has lived in the UK has permanant leave to remain and i have enough money ,but so many decent oap's have not ,so tough .you look after them ,

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Saint Nick]

19 hours ago, marqus said:

The idea was for the Germans to take educated "refugees" and mentally stable to perform low-paid jobs.  Basically, choose the useful ones And send all the rest to other countries.

No sane government would agree to such generous "gifts" !

Citation needed!

[MarineEquine]

On 10/8/2019 at 3:43 PM, khunken said:

First, this has not been going on for 3 decades in the Libyan area. It was triggered by the US, UK & France (main culprits) destroying the Libyan government of Ghaddafi thereby opening the door (removing the cork from the bottle as he said) to huge swathes of migrants & refugees departing for Europe. Yes Lampedusa was & still is the nearest land to Libya.

 

Second, Merkel did not cause any part of the problem, she had to deal with the effect which was Lampedusa being unable to cope with over half a million migrants & refugees arriving in a relatively short period of time. She did what any half-decent person would do - help Italy with its problem.

 

If you are from the UK, which your avatar implies, your government with its neverending lapdogging to the US, has a major share of the blame for the destruction of Libya & the subsequent exodus of over half a million Africans & a number of Asian hangers-on too.

 

 

 

 

On 10/8/2019 at 11:55 AM, nauseus said:

The blame has to be split. This has been going on for at least three decades in the Libyan area. Yes, the organised people smugglers are paid and bring people from all over sub-Saharan Africa to the coast, then give them a large rubber boat and send them off. Lampedusa is the southernmost part of Europe because it belongs to Italy and it is relatively close to Libya.

 

The migrants make, and are responsible for their decisions, if they can afford to try but the smugglers facilitate the travel and are evil profiteers. People like Merkel, who encouraged this stupidity in 2015, just increase the amount of people coming and so increase the number of deaths and misery. It is all very sad. News like this is more likely at this time of year, when the weather deteriorates and the sea is often quite surprisingly rough. 

 

  

 

On 10/8/2019 at 10:12 AM, Mick501 said:

Horrible stuff.  This blood is on the hands of Merkel and others who encourage these dangerous voyages.

 

On 10/8/2019 at 4:16 PM, pacovl46 said:

The only reason we're having this issue at all is because the Americans think they have to play war wherever they please. 

 

On 10/8/2019 at 5:12 PM, marqus said:

1. Subsidizing agriculture, especially in the EU
deepens poverty and prevents economic development in Africa.

2. Arab spring and the bombing of Gaddafi and getting rid of Hussein and others

who were sadists and psychopaths but they kept their countries with a strong hand

and there was some basic order.( The US and others job in destabilizing the entire region.)

3."Refugees welcome" German responsibility because they wanted cheap labor.

4.EU equals 50% of world social payments.

Not one of these posts mentions the fundamental, root cause of this  problem i.e. the culture of the countries these people are coming from. 

 

Immigration will swamp the west

[nauseus]

58 minutes ago, MarineEquine said:

 

 

 

 

Not one of these posts mentions the fundamental, root cause of this  problem i.e. the culture of the countries these people are coming from. 

 

Immigration will swamp the west

The migration method, criminal smuggling, political encouragement of it and the combined consequences of all those was what was being discussed but not the cause. I've seen the movie before; the cause as well as the hopelessness of all this is well explained, at least in the case of mass economic migration.