90 In 180 Rule Applies To Kids

[Whitey]

I learned today that the 90 in 180 days rule for visa exemptions applies to kids as well as adults and it's being enforced. My 3 year old son exited after a stay from October to March. Theoretically no fine(that's for another post) for overstay, but upon re-entry, they did count stamps and they did count days. They counted more than 90 days and told us no dice, the 3 year old can't enter Thailand. After much hassles, they stamped him in with the stamp saying he had used up all of his visa exemptions.

Just an FYI for any parents who might be in the same boat. 90 in 180 is alive and well(I saw one person refused entrance today.)

[astral]

Well, you were warned!!

[beechguy]

I learned today that the 90 in 180 days rule for visa exemptions applies to kids as well as adults and it's being enforced. My 3 year old son exited after a stay from October to March. Theoretically no fine(that's for another post) for overstay, but upon re-entry, they did count stamps and they did count days. They counted more than 90 days and told us no dice, the 3 year old can't enter Thailand. After much hassles, they stamped him in with the stamp saying he had used up all of his visa exemptions.

Just an FYI for any parents who might be in the same boat. 90 in 180 is alive and well(I saw one person refused entrance today.)

Sorry to hear that, but too many people aren't taking care of business the way they should. Things are just not the same as before! You either need to do the proper procedures now, or consider other options. It isn't like there has not been information

available. I wish you good luck!

[Whitey]

There were no warnings that it applied to kids. This means that the literally thousands of foreign children of teachers and other workers need to get a non-immi O for their kids. Funny, when I tried to get a non-Immi 0 for my kids, Penang said no, they don't issue them for kids under 7. So, Mr. Astral, what do you suggest?

[PeaceBlondie]

Whitey, I'm sorry to hear about this problem, and I'm surprised it even exists. Yes, there are thousands of children in Thailand with parents who are farang and teachers, but how often do they go outside the country? I would have thought that most of them stay home with their Thai mother, but then some of them don't have a Thai parent, and both farang parents have to do visa runs.

We don't mean to be giving you a hard time, mate. It's too easy for many of us to just think that "Hey Jack, I'm okay, so you must be okay" and then when Jack says he has a problem, we think Jack just needs to take the next first class flight to Boston or London and get the right visa.

[Whitey]

Whitey, I'm sorry to hear about this problem, and I'm surprised it even exists. Yes, there are thousands of children in Thailand with parents who are farang and teachers, but how often do they go outside the country? I would have thought that most of them stay home with their Thai mother, but then some of them don't have a Thai parent, and both farang parents have to do visa runs.

We don't mean to be giving you a hard time, mate. It's too easy for many of us to just think that "Hey Jack, I'm okay, so you must be okay" and then when Jack says he has a problem, we think Jack just needs to take the next first class flight to Boston or London and get the right visa.

I only posted this as a warning to other parents who might be in the same boat. I know of 3 parents locally this applies to...and this wasn't a visa run trip. It was a trip out of the country on vacation. Parents who make a trip outside of the country once every 6 months or once a year had better get visas(if the consulates will give them) for their kids. Just a warning, no more, no less.

[astral]

There were no warnings that it applied to kids. This means that the literally thousands of foreign children of teachers and other workers need to get a non-immi O for their kids. Funny, when I tried to get a non-Immi 0 for my kids, Penang said no, they don't issue them for kids under 7. So, Mr. Astral, what do you suggest?

There rules were laid out quite clearly, prior to 1st October.

There was no mention of exceptions for children. The rules apply to all travellers.

Personally I think you are very irresponsible placing your children in this situation

of living within the country without the correct visa.

I expect the Royal Thai embassy in your country will issue a visa for you and your family,

if you meet the necessary requirements.

I am fed up with the people who still try to skate round the immigration laws

and then whinge when they have problems.

[george]

Kids under 12 years don't need to pay overstay. You might consider letting the kids go on overstay instead. But you better double check this option with Immigration first!

[Mid]

There rules were laid out quite clearly, prior to 1st October.

There was no mention of exceptions for children. The rules apply to all travellers.

Kids under 12 years don't need to pay overstay.

why so high and mighty , mr astral ??

[lopburi3]

Kids under 12 years don't need to pay overstay. You might consider letting the kids go on overstay instead. But you better double check this option with Immigration first!

The way I read this post is the child originally entered on a 30 day visa exempt entry and overstayed. He paid no overstay but can not return without a visa because the overstay used up the allowed 90 days per six month rule. So indeed this is going to require some change in thinking for some parents with children and require that they enter with a valid visa. All the more reason for those with dual nationality to obtain and use a Thai passport. In this case the rule was fortunatly not applied hard and fast.

[samran]

There were no warnings that it applied to kids. This means that the literally thousands of foreign children of teachers and other workers need to get a non-immi O for their kids. Funny, when I tried to get a non-Immi 0 for my kids, Penang said no, they don't issue them for kids under 7. So, Mr. Astral, what do you suggest?

So your employer has organised you and your wife proper visas and work permits but not for your child? This is incredibly strange. You should take it up with them (especially if it is in your contract to do so). Most schools take care of the entire family on this matter.

If Penang gave you hassel, I'd head for the Thai embassy in Singapore. Make sure you take the correct documentation down, but I've had friends (both non Thai) who have had their children born in Thailand. The embassy there was happy to issue the non-O and once back in Thailand, all extensions to this non-O were given based on the father being employed in Thailand.

[aussiestyle1983]

There were no warnings that it applied to kids.

Why would they need to give a warning?

They didn't specify that the new rule only applied to adults.....................

Its only takes a little bit of common sense to figure out what the new rule means and who it affects, and unless it says "this new rule does not apply to children" then you should not assume that is the case.

[sbk]

Whilst I agree that most people shouldn't assume anything about the new regulations it isn't unfair for people to think the rules wouldn't be applied equally to children since many rules aren't. I've been in the Immigration office and heard an Immigration officer tell parents of a young child that they didn't need to bother with an extension for their child while the parents themselves were required to get the extension.

[Whitey]

Some of you are very jaded individuals indeed. I posted this as a warning to other parents in the same situation and you all jump on me. Forget it, I am out of here.

sbk, you are right, there are different rules for children and adults concerning visas. Most of the posters here with kids have Thai kids, not farang kids. Ok, luk krueng, but luk kruengs have Thai passports.

Mr Astral, the Penang consulate wouldn't issue visas as they said, not required. If you bothered to read the post, you would see it. When I ran by the possible scenario over on Ajarn, Kenkanniff and many others said it was impossible and wouldn't be applied like this, but it looks like the armchair quarterbacks over here know everything. My local immigration office advised me the same thing as they do at least three other families locally.

I have better things to deal with in my life than trolls when I am just trying to help out others in the future so they are not shocked when it happens to them and they can PLAN AHEAD.

[samran]

Sorry for the position you are in, but in my experience, where two non-thai parents have a child in Thailand, they usually get their child 'legal' with a non-O on the first trip out of the country. They then extend of the father or mothers work permit in Thailand.

I know 5 couples who have done exactly that in the past 4 months. That is the norm.

KL, Singapore and Sydney have all worked in these cases. Bubs are back here, and legal.

[aussiestyle1983]

I have better things to deal with in my life than trolls when I am just trying to help out others in the future so they are not shocked when it happens to them and they can PLAN AHEAD.

I hope other people take note of your warning just in case they forget to do their homework.

Its also sad to hear of the crap advice you were given.

Edited March 31, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[samran]

please keep this thread nice. The OP has been given shonky advice on this issue and is a victim of what would politely be described as uneven application of rules..

This post is purely an excerise in placing a warning to people in a similar situation, not an invitation to pass judgement.

[hotgeekus]

I completely agree with the OP.

While this site has a wealth of information it has quite a few people who give you the 'I told you so's'... 95% of the advice here is great and very much appreciated by myself and I am sure lots of others.

The thing is, here we ask for advice, not to get shot down for things we don't know about....

To all the trolls or others, remember, the only way this system works is by the exchange of information and the new people coming needing help adding information....

Again, thank you to Thai visa, I, for one, appreciate it, even if it bends some longtimers out of shape...

[Whitey]

For better or worse, we're all in this together. That means passing along information that we have that others may not know. Giving advice when needed and giving a heads up when we encounter something new.

[sbk]

please keep this thread nice. The OP has been given shonky advice on this issue and is a victim of what would politely be described as uneven application of rules..

This post is purely an excerise in placing a warning to people in a similar situation, not an invitation to pass judgement.

shonky???

I get what you mean, but still, this is a new one for me.

Anyway, I agree, it is difficult to know how and when rules are going to be applied since the only sure bet seems to be "expect the unexpected"

Thanks to the OP for giving all parents out there fair warning. Sorry to hear your child nearly paid the price for bad advice given to you

[Tywais]

shonky???

Wasn't sure myself but from Aussie slang > "Shonky : dubious, underhanded."

[astral]

There were no warnings that it applied to kids. This means that the literally thousands of foreign children of teachers and other workers need to get a non-immi O for their kids. Funny, when I tried to get a non-Immi 0 for my kids, Penang said no, they don't issue them for kids under 7. So, Mr. Astral, what do you suggest?

Perhaps I was rather harsh in my comments, but you have to think laterally

in these situation, if you are to survive.

Why not a tourist visa for your children?

Then there is no 90/180 day counting.

After that try to minimise their travel to locations where you can

get a suitable visa.

As George pointed out, children are generally treated with consideration

by the Immigration officers.

[Whitey]

Perhaps I was rather harsh in my comments, but you have to think laterally

in these situation, if you are to survive.

Why not a tourist visa for your children?

Then there is no 90/180 day counting.

After that try to minimise their travel to locations where you can

get a suitable visa.

As George pointed out, children are generally treated with consideration

by the Immigration officers.

Or, not be here at all.....remember, it's my choice to be here or not to be here. If a country is going to change its rules on a whim, it doesn't really want people to be here, I think.

[Sunny Valentine]

There were no warnings that it applied to kids.

Why would they need to give a warning?

They didn't specify that the new rule only applied to adults.....................

Its only takes a little bit of common sense to figure out what the new rule means and who it affects, and unless it says "this new rule does not apply to children" then you should not assume that is the case.

You're right here.

But, reading some of the other thread here and I come to the conclusion that the new rule by itself is obviously not specified at all. It is all a complete chaos, Imm officers unable to count, noone knows how the 6 month (or 180 day) rule is counted, some Immigration people seem to count days on Tourist Visas, others not, you name the theoretically possible f**kup, they create it.

It takes a bit of common sense for the authorities to see what mess they produced, and change the system to one that gives them the result they aim at without creating havoc for each and every traveler, no matter whether he has a Visa or not, no matter whether he stayed in Thailand for 5 days or 89 days before, no matter whether he (the 3 year old child) got refused a Visa at an Embassy, or whatever.

In the mean time we all should worry next time we cross the border in or out of Thailand. I have a One Year O extension, but after reading the post by the guy who got hassled at Poipet recently for not having a ticket outside Thailand when exiting, I wonder what will happen to me at my planned next trip to Malaysia and the Philippines next week. I have a reentry permit, but will this be enough? According to the rules yes, but what are the rules? And do those who enforce them understand them? The answer seems to be a clear "no".

Sunny

[MsFigure]

My daughter (farang) was born in BKK and is now 3 years old. From the time she first started travelling at 3 months of age, we've always been told by immigration that she does not need a visa and that she travels under my visa (non-immigrant O Multiple Entry). Everytime we go to leave Thailand, they always look at her passport and say that she has overstayed but once I tell her that she is my daughter (we have different surnames as I have kept my maiden name while she has her fathers surname) they just take her passport, stamp it, scribble something in thai underneath the stamp and send us on our way. We've also been told that she doesn't need a visa of her own until she is 7 years old. One thing I also do carry is her thai birth certificate with her passport just to prove I am her mother, so I don't know if that is why we've never had problems in the past with immigration.

We don't travel again until July, and my visa isn't for renewal until september - but will the new changes affect my daughter in anyway (like 3 year olds NOW do need a visa?) or will she still be able to travel under my visa as we have done in the past?

Thanks,

Di

Edited April 2, 2007 by MsFigure

[LivinLOS]

Tough one to answer (due to the uneven nature of immigrations implementation of this ruling) but my gut feeling is that her entry stamp (30 day visa free entry) and overstay could combine to be more than 90 days in a 180 day period staying on visa free entries..

So the child would not be allowed to enter the country.

[astral]

Perhaps a letter to the Bangkok Post explaining the difficulties might evoke a response from the Head of Immigration at Suan Plu.

You could even try writing to the gentleman himself asking him to clarify the position for children.

The incumbent used to be Maj General Hemmeraj, but he may have been replaced by now.

[Whitey]

My daughter (farang) was born in BKK and is now 3 years old. From the time she first started travelling at 3 months of age, we've always been told by immigration that she does not need a visa and that she travels under my visa (non-immigrant O Multiple Entry). Everytime we go to leave Thailand, they always look at her passport and say that she has overstayed but once I tell her that she is my daughter (we have different surnames as I have kept my maiden name while she has her fathers surname) they just take her passport, stamp it, scribble something in thai underneath the stamp and send us on our way. We've also been told that she doesn't need a visa of her own until she is 7 years old. One thing I also do carry is her thai birth certificate with her passport just to prove I am her mother, so I don't know if that is why we've never had problems in the past with immigration.

We don't travel again until July, and my visa isn't for renewal until september - but will the new changes affect my daughter in anyway (like 3 year olds NOW do need a visa?) or will she still be able to travel under my visa as we have done in the past?

Thanks,

Di

Yours is exactly the situation why I posted. They say the kids are under our visa, but they get a visa exemption stamped in their passports. The rules say that you get no more than 90 days in 180 days under that exemption.

That's the problem. When we entered Thailand, they looked at my son's passport. They saw the stamp in October and the exit stamp and knew he was way over 90 days. They said they couldn't stamp him in and then the wrangling began.

My advice, on your trip outside, get your daughter a tourist visa at the min so they will let her in. If you can get her a Non-immi O, try to do that. When I had asked in the past for one, they said not for under 7's but maybe they have changed their policy.

[LivinLOS]

Surely if the parent has a non imm O the proper thing to do is get a dependants visa..

Why get a tourist visa when theres a actual visa class for them (dependants) ??

[MsFigure]

My daughter (farang) was born in BKK and is now 3 years old. From the time she first started travelling at 3 months of age, we've always been told by immigration that she does not need a visa and that she travels under my visa (non-immigrant O Multiple Entry). Everytime we go to leave Thailand, they always look at her passport and say that she has overstayed but once I tell her that she is my daughter (we have different surnames as I have kept my maiden name while she has her fathers surname) they just take her passport, stamp it, scribble something in thai underneath the stamp and send us on our way. We've also been told that she doesn't need a visa of her own until she is 7 years old. One thing I also do carry is her thai birth certificate with her passport just to prove I am her mother, so I don't know if that is why we've never had problems in the past with immigration.

We don't travel again until July, and my visa isn't for renewal until september - but will the new changes affect my daughter in anyway (like 3 year olds NOW do need a visa?) or will she still be able to travel under my visa as we have done in the past?

Thanks,

Di

Yours is exactly the situation why I posted. They say the kids are under our visa, but they get a visa exemption stamped in their passports. The rules say that you get no more than 90 days in 180 days under that exemption.

That's the problem. When we entered Thailand, they looked at my son's passport. They saw the stamp in October and the exit stamp and knew he was way over 90 days. They said they couldn't stamp him in and then the wrangling began.

My advice, on your trip outside, get your daughter a tourist visa at the min so they will let her in. If you can get her a Non-immi O, try to do that. When I had asked in the past for one, they said not for under 7's but maybe they have changed their policy.

Is there anyone here who can comfirm : Do children under 7 require a visa (in my case a non-imm. O visa)? YES or NO.

On one hand I have immigration telling us that a child doesnt need a visa (travels under parents visa) everytime we our yearly visas, but then when we go to leave the country, I have immigration there questioning the overstay which leaves me to explain to them that she travels under my visa. Surely if there was a rule that children under 7 are exempt, they (imm. at the airports) wouldn't question this every single time?

My husband even enquired AGAIN as recently as last month whether or not our daughter needs a visa and was told NO. Maybe I should get him to go to immigration and ask for some sort of letter or official immigration document (if there is such a thing) attached to her passport declaring that our daughter travels under my passport?

Di