U.S. appeals court sidesteps major Obamacare ruling

[webfact]

U.S. appeals court sidesteps major Obamacare ruling

By Lawrence Hurley

 

FILE PHOTO: A sign on an insurance store advertises Obamacare in San Ysidro, San Diego, California, U.S., October 26, 2017. REUTERS/Mike Blake

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. appeals court ruled on Wednesday that a component of the Obamacare law is unconstitutional, but dodged a major ruling by stopping short of declaring that the rest of the landmark 2010 healthcare statute must also be struck down.

 

The New Orleans-based 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled on a 2-1 vote that the law's individual mandate that directed Americans to obtain health insurance - a provision already gutted by Republican-backed legislation passed in Congress - was unlawful.

 

The court, however, avoided answering the key question of whether the rest of the law can remain in place or must be struck down, instead sending the case back to a district court judge for further analysis. That means the fate of the signature domestic achievement of Democratic former President Barack Obama remains in limbo.

 

Writing for the majority, Judge Jennifer Walker Elrod said that Texas-based U.S. District Court Judge Reed O'Connor must "employ a finer-toothed comb" to determine if the entire law must be struck down.

 

In 2018, O'Connor ruled the entire law was unconstitutional.

 

Elrod wrote that it may be that the law does eventually have to be struck down in full, but "it is no small thing for unelected, life-tenured judges to declare duly enacted legislation passed by the elected representatives of the American people unconstitutional."

 

The dissenting judge, Carolyn Dineen King, said she would have found that the challengers had no legal standing to bring the lawsuit. She also said the rest of the law could be upheld even if the individual mandate was unconstitutional.

 

The law has drawn Republican ire since its passage. Congressional Republicans tried and failed numerous times to repeal it, and the Trump administration has taken several actions to undermine it.

 

"The 5th Circuit correctly held that the individual mandate is unconstitutional, and we look forward to the opportunity to further demonstrate that Congress made the individual mandate the centerpiece of Obamacare and the rest of the law cannot stand without it," said Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, a Republican who leads the legal challenge brought by 18 conservative-led states.

 

California Attorney General Xavier Becerra, who heads a coalition of 20 Democratic-led states defending the law, said the ruling means President Donald Trump "got the gift he wanted -- uncertainty in the healthcare system and a pathway to repeal."

 

California will appeal the decision to the Supreme Court, a spokeswoman for the state attorney general said.

 

Obamacare has helped roughly 20 million Americans obtain medical insurance either through government programs or through policies from private insurers made available in Obamacare marketplaces. Republican opponents have called the law an unwarranted intervention by government in health insurance markets.

 

In 2012, the Supreme Court narrowly upheld most Obamacare provisions including the individual mandate, which required people to obtain insurance or pay a financial penalty. The court defined this penalty as a tax and thus found the law permissible under the Constitution's provision empowering Congress to levy taxes.

 

In 2017, Trump signed into law a tax bill passed by a Republican-led Congress that eliminated the financial penalty under the individual mandate.

 

The 2017 law means the individual mandate can no longer be interpreted as a tax provision and is therefore unlawful, the appeals court concluded in Wednesday's ruling.

 

Trump's administration supported the legal challenge and declined to defend the law in court.

 

(Reporting by Lawrence Hurley; Additional reporting by Nate Raymond; Editing by Leslie Adler and Lisa Shumaker)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-12-19

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[AsianAtHeart]

I would like to know if the Obamacare law still applies to all U.S. citizens everywhere such that those living abroad without it, where it would be useless to them anyhow, cannot obtain work in America before paying the fine for not having had it.  In other words, can a U.S. expat go back for a short time for temporary work without Obamacare hassles/fines?

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I would like to know if the Obamacare law still applies to all U.S. citizens everywhere such that those living abroad without it, where it would be useless to them anyhow, cannot obtain work in America before paying the fine for not having had it.  In other words, can a U.S. expat go back for a short time for temporary work without Obamacare hassles/fines?

The mandate fines are already abolished for all. Expats included. 

[gk10002000]

46 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I would like to know if the Obamacare law still applies to all U.S. citizens everywhere such that those living abroad without it, where it would be useless to them anyhow, cannot obtain work in America before paying the fine for not having had it.  In other words, can a U.S. expat go back for a short time for temporary work without Obamacare hassles/fines?

Technically the law still applies but there are no financial or tax penalties.  US citizens living overseas could be exempt if they are out of country for 330 days or 11 consecutive months, something like that very similar to the foreign income exclusion rules.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

Technically the law still applies but there are no financial or tax penalties.  US citizens living overseas could be exempt if they are out of country for 330 days or 11 consecutive months, something like that very similar to the foreign income exclusion rules.

You have posted incorrect (dated) information. 

 

There are NO mandate penalties in effect for ANYONE.
Effective this year.

The last year that there were such rules in effect was tax year 2018.

Going forward there are no such issues for expats or residents.

There are these STATE exceptions, see the link, but real expats don't even file state forms. 

 

https://www.healthinsurance.org/obamacare-enrollment-guide/what-is-the-obamacare-penalty/

 

Quote

 

Is there still a penalty for being uninsured?

The ACA's individual mandate penalty was assessed for the last time on tax returns filed in 2019; there's no longer a federal penalty for being uninsured

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Jingthing

[Emdog]

I'm still waiting for Trump's major promise that he had a plan for healthcare that would cover everyone and for less money. Maybe some of the Trump supporters can clue me into how that is progressing...

[Spike1938]

That's it Republicans. Put 20 million people into the most expensive health care in the world. If you can't afford care they don't care because their wealthy patrons can. 

[Thomas J]

14 minutes ago, Emdog said:

I'm still waiting for Trump's major promise that he had a plan for healthcare that would cover everyone and for less money. Maybe some of the Trump supporters can clue me into how that is progressing...

Emdog, 

it will never happen.  Unfortunately US politics has evolved into that neither party wants to allow any legislation to pass that would be positive if that legislation is fostered by the opposition party.  In terms of Obamacare, also called the Affordable Care Act.  LOL.  Its intention never was to make health care affordable.  Quite the opposite.  It layered rules for policies that increased the expense of health care insurance.  It's real intention was to make it so expensive and burdensome on employers that they would cut back or eliminate health care for their workers.  That would leave the government as the "savior" and the only option to the U.S. population.  What the Democrats really wanted was for the government be the only choice and exert the ultimate in control.  They wanted voters beholden to them for both their retirement income - Social Security and for their health care. 

If you want to control health care cost and improve quality look no further than Lasik for your eyes.  Once it cost over $5,000 per eye now about $250 per eye with improved equipment. Why?  Competition  People shopping and doctors competing. If people paid for their own health services even using tax advantaged health reimbursement monies, needless tests, exorbitant hospital charges, and bureaucratic third party reimbursement expenses all would be eliminated.  Medical care costs would drop to a fraction of what we pay today.  Look at Thailand were top quality health care for those who can pay is a small fraction of what is charged in the USA. 

[gk10002000]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You have posted incorrect (dated) information. 

 

There are NO mandate penalties in effect for ANYONE.
Effective this year.

The last year that there were such rules in effect was tax year 2018.

Going forward there are no such issues for expats or residents.

There are these STATE exceptions, see the link, but real expats don't even file state forms. 

 

https://www.healthinsurance.org/obamacare-enrollment-guide/what-is-the-obamacare-penalty/

 

 

 

I did NOT say there were penalties.  I said technically the law is still in place.  And the exemptions from coverage, if one were so inclined to worry about, are still in the law.

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I did NOT say there were penalties.  I said technically the law is still in place.  And the exemptions from coverage, if one were so inclined to worry about, are still in the law.

No. There is no mandate in place this year. So that part of the law is no longer being  enforced. That was a big change. So when expats or anyone files for this tax year there will be NOTHING to file about compliance with ACA or exemptions. 

 

To wit. 

 

https://www.thehortongroup.com/resources/individual-mandate-penalty-will-be-eliminated-in-2019

INDIVIDUAL MANDATE PENALTY WILL BE ELIMINATED IN 2019

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Jingthing

[Lacessit]

12 hours ago, Thomas J said:

 

If you want to control health care cost and improve quality look no further than Lasik for your eyes.  Once it cost over $5,000 per eye now about $250 per eye with improved equipment. Why?  Competition  People shopping and doctors competing. If people paid for their own health services even using tax advantaged health reimbursement monies, needless tests, exorbitant hospital charges, and bureaucratic third party reimbursement expenses all would be eliminated.  Medical care costs would drop to a fraction of what we pay today.  Look at Thailand were top quality health care for those who can pay is a small fraction of what is charged in the USA. 

As I understand it, one of the big factors in the cost of medical care in the USA are the lawsuits brought by the legal profession for medical negligence, and the ensuing merry-go-round of big awards and costly professional indemnity insurance. As someone once said, first kill all the lawyers.

I pay for top level private insurance  in Australia. AUD 2400 a year. As long as I keep paying it, it will cover me until I die.

Any stay or surgery in hospital I have is free of charge. Our pharmaceutical benefits scheme ( PBS ) means the majority of prescriptions cost $5.50 per script. As a pensioner, bulk-billing means all my visits to the family doctor (GP) are free.

I have to smile when Americans beat their chests about how the USA is the greatest country in the world. For the rich, maybe.

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Lacessit

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[gk10002000]

On 12/19/2019 at 3:21 PM, Jingthing said:

No. There is no mandate in place this year. So that part of the law is no longer being  enforced. That was a big change. So when expats or anyone files for this tax year there will be NOTHING to file about compliance with ACA or exemptions. 

 

To wit. 

 

https://www.thehortongroup.com/resources/individual-mandate-penalty-will-be-eliminated-in-2019

INDIVIDUAL MANDATE PENALTY WILL BE ELIMINATED IN 2019

 

Again you read without comprehension, focusing on only what you think you want to see.  the tax reform bill eliminates the ACA’s individual mandate penalty, nothing more.  All the other facets are in place.

[Jingthing]

34 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Again you read without comprehension, focusing on only what you think you want to see.  the tax reform bill eliminates the ACA’s individual mandate penalty, nothing more.  All the other facets are in place.

What a bizarre post!

All I've been talking about OBVIOUSLY is the mandate!!!

Because with no mandate there is NO PENALTY for not having health insurance either for expats or US residents. 

I NEVER said that the entire ACA bill has been abolished. 

However the current administration has been trying to abolish the entire bill but so far they have not succeeded. 

 

 

Refer to the question from Asian At Heart. He wanted to know if he had to worry about being subject to a penalty for not having health insurance if visiting the USA as has actually been the case before tax year 2019 if it was over a certain amount of days.

I gave him the answer.

Again traveling to the USA in 2019 expats do NOT have to be concerned about making themselves subject to a penalty for noncompliance with the ACA mandate as there no longer is an ACA mandate for anyone. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Jingthing

[gk10002000]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

What a bizarre post!

All I've been talking about OBVIOUSLY is the mandate!!!

Because with no mandate there is NO PENALTY for not having health insurance either for expats or US residents. 

I NEVER said that the entire ACA bill has been abolished. 

However the current administration has been trying to abolish the entire bill but so far they have not succeeded. 

 

 

Refer to the question from Asian At Heart. He wanted to know if he had to worry about being subject to a penalty for not having health insurance if visiting the USA as has actually been the case before tax year 2019 if it was over a certain amount of days.

I gave him the answer.

Again traveling to the USA in 2019 expats do NOT have to be concerned about making themselves subject to a penalty for noncompliance with the ACA mandate as there no longer is an ACA mandate for anyone. 

and again you are wrong.  There is still a mandate.  There just is not a non-compliance mandate penalty.  But being obtuse is a right

[Jingthing]

43 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

and again you are wrong.  There is still a mandate.  There just is not a non-compliance mandate penalty.  But being obtuse is a right

A mandate with no penalty for non-compliance means that that PRACTICALLY SPEAKING there is no mandate anymore. That's all Americans need to know now on the matter of the mandate and penalties for the ACA. 

 

Suppose a freeway took down all the speed limit signs and NOBODY, I mean NOBODY was getting a ticket anymore for speeding no matter how fast.

 

People would say that there is NO SPEED LIMIT.

 

https://fortune.com/2017/12/20/tax-bill-individual-mandate-obamacare/

 

Quote

The GOP Tax Bill Repeals Obamacare’s Individual Mandate. Here’s What That Means for You

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by Jingthing

[ExpatOK]

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A mandate with no penalty for non-compliance means that that PRACTICALLY SPEAKING there is no mandate anymore. That's all Americans need to know now on the matter of the mandate and penalties for the ACA. 

 

Suppose a freeway took down all the speed limit signs and NOBODY, I mean NOBODY was getting a ticket anymore for speeding no matter how fast.

 

People would say that there is NO SPEED LIMIT.

 

https://fortune.com/2017/12/20/tax-bill-individual-mandate-obamacare/

 

 

You were wrong. Get over it and move on.