Philippines Or Chiang Mai For Retirement?

[vantexan]

Hi Everyone,

I've been following several Yahoo groups on living in the Philippines for years. I'm 45, hope to be retired by 52. Many of the postings on those groups make me wonder if living in the Philippines is such a good idea. There's a 70% poverty rate, extraordinary corruption, political instability, etc. The birthrate is supposed to be Asia's highest. I'm concerned that the problems will only get worse. Recently a group member emailed me saying he and his Filipina wife have had enough of the Philippines.and were moving to Thailand. That got me wondering and led to this forum.

To be honest I'd never heard of Chiang Mai. But after following the Thai Visa forum for a week I quickly picked up that it was what I'm looking for. It appears to have a lifestyle that can only be obtained in the Philippines by constantly dealing with various problems. I may still go to the Phillipines to find a wife, but mostly I want an easygoing, affordable retirement with minimal hassle. Is Chiang Mai that place? I can't afford retiring in the States so it's either Southeast Asia or Latin America. I like the nearness of Singapore for visa runs. It's large bookstores like Borders make it a plus when determining where to live.

So would you recommend Chiang Mai for someone who likes to read, watch moviies, and eat out? Are the problems of a foreigner living in Thailand as bad as the Philippines or much less? Thanks!

Edited April 15, 2007 by vantexan

[Ta22]

hello you are 45 and you want to retire at 52 ..

and now you are planning . where to go .

well is god to plan ahead .. but 7 years is along way to go ..

my suggestion is check back in 5-6 years time .. thing would change so much in mere 3 years .

not to say 5 - 7 years

any advice now would not valid in 5-7 years time.

the world is changing the weather is changing . the economic is changing . 5-7 yeard own the roads . who know amercia might be a cheaper place to stay after the second great depression whahahhaa whahahahha

well .. who know burma is relaly a much better choice maybe in 7 years or north korea

[vantexan]

hello you are 45 and you want to retire at 52 ..

and now you are planning . where to go .

well is god to plan ahead .. but 7 years is along way to go ..

my suggestion is check back in 5-6 years time .. thing would change so much in mere 3 years .

not to say 5 - 7 years

any advice now would not valid in 5-7 years time.

the world is changing the weather is changing . the economic is changing . 5-7 yeard own the roads . who know amercia might be a cheaper place to stay after the second great depression whahahhaa whahahahha

well .. who know burma is relaly a much better choice maybe in 7 years or north korea

================================================================

I'm sorry, did I say something offensive? I'm not looking to live a lavish lifestyle, just want to get by. I realize the option to live in another country isn't one that many people in countries like Thailand have. But at least I'll be spending my money in your economy. I'm assuming you're Thai or someone who dislikes Americans, or both. Sorry you feel that way. I assure you I worked very hard for the small pension I'll be getting. I've traveled all over the U.S. but my goal is to live overseas someday. For the longest time I thought the Philippines was the place for me. But if there's a better place I'd love to hear about it.

[el jefe]

You didn't say anything offensive, you just asked a silly question. Well, actually a good question, just 7 years early.

7 years ago PM Thaksin hadn't been elected yet. Now he's been deposed in a military coup. What will the gov't be like 7 years from now?

7 years ago the baht was 60 to the dollar. Now it's 34. What will the baht dollar rate be 7 years from now?

7 years ago no one cared how many monthly visa runs you did. What will the visa rules be 7 years from now?

7 years ago no one talked about pollution/traffic/over-development/name-the-problem in Chiang Mai. What will be the problem 7 years from now.

Those are the questions you should be asking.

[swain]

I would agree that 7 years is really too early to tell which would be the best place to retire to. If you were doing it right now.. I would say Chiang Mai as that was my choice. Cebu (Philippines) is nice as well and I have been to both places. You will get more bang for your buck now in the Philippines as the Thai Currency is going through some robust gains but everything changes over here quickly. Even though I am sure others will disagree, I DO think that Burma or Myanmar might be the place to live in 10 years time. Now? No... In Chiang Mai you do get seasons, and you do get some cold weather, not that I would bring my skis but it gets cold enough in the higher elevations to freeze water.

If you are stuck in your ways... and want the feel of the USA ... Neither location will work for you. Biggest problem you can see right here in this forum. Americans coming here wanting to change Thailand into the USA.. and they do try... Its got allot of the western comforts but with a twist and the twist is what bugs allot of Americans coming here. But hey... if you are open minded and go with the flow its great here, otherwise consider Florida.

[PhilHarries]

You say you'd never heard of Chiang Mai but after a week reading this forum you think it's the place for you. Don't you think a visit is in order?

And you intend swinging by the Philippines to pick yourself up a wife? Just like that.

So then there will be you and your 'wife' living in a strange land, neither of you knowing the language nor culture.

Anyway, think about Malaysia and the MM2H programme and don't dismiss Viet Nam so much can change in 7 years, I'm intending a drift into semi-retirement in around 5 years but have not settled on my choice of location (75% sure it wil be Thailand).

[vantexan]

You say you'd never heard of Chiang Mai but after a week reading this forum you think it's the place for you. Don't you think a visit is in order?

And you intend swinging by the Philippines to pick yourself up a wife? Just like that.

So then there will be you and your 'wife' living in a strange land, neither of you knowing the language nor culture.

Anyway, think about Malaysia and the MM2H programme and don't dismiss Viet Nam so much can change in 7 years, I'm intending a drift into semi-retirement in around 5 years but have not settled on my choice of location (75% sure it wil be Thailand).

==========================

Well it does sound like a terrific place but certainly investigating it is in order. Since I don't have a Lear jet I think the Chiang Mai forum would be a good place to start. Don't you? I never said I was going to pick up a wife like a run to the store so why would you think that? I'm hopefully 7 years from retirement and have time to get my ducks in a row. Many American men go to the Philippines to find a wife, nothing unusual there. I have to start somewhere.

[vantexan]

You didn't say anything offensive, you just asked a silly question. Well, actually a good question, just 7 years early.

7 years ago PM Thaksin hadn't been elected yet. Now he's been deposed in a military coup. What will the gov't be like 7 years from now?

7 years ago the baht was 60 to the dollar. Now it's 34. What will the baht dollar rate be 7 years from now?

7 years ago no one cared how many monthly visa runs you did. What will the visa rules be 7 years from now?

7 years ago no one talked about pollution/traffic/over-development/name-the-problem in Chiang Mai. What will be the problem 7 years from now.

Those are the questions you should be asking.

=======================================================

You're riight and I wish I had started by doing a search for ?Philippines? on this forum. I just did and found an excellent thread that answered and confirmed many of my questions and doubts. I realize that no place is perfect but the Philippines seem to be on the verge of anarchy. After reading about Chiang Mai I kind of had a Eureka! moment and wanted to ask some questions. When I first joined the Phiilippines Yahoo groups they only had a few hundred members and were extremely positive. Now the biggest ones have over 7000 members, many of whom have made investigative trips and aren't thrilled with what they've found. Thus the reason I'm here. Actually until Thailand was suggested I was leaning towards Argentina or Chile. The availabiliity of English reading material puts Thailand in front however

Regards.

[dumspero]

Vantexan- I'm also your age and check out this forum with tentative plans of retiring in a similar number of years to Thailand, and possibly Chiang Mai.

You may also want to look at areas near (not in) Pattaya, and also Hua Hin/Cha Am. Those are places many foreigners like. I also like Kanchanaburi, the bridge over the river Kwai area, but it certainly doesn't have the services of Chiang Mai. I've also spent some time in the PI.

My guess is that in seven years things will be about the same in terms of the comparative cost between the PI and Thailand, with both getting somewhat more expensive for US citizens. Agreed 7 years is far out, and it's really just guess work on details at this point, but of course it's never too early to start planning.

Oh, by the way, never mind the jerks being negative. As I'm sure you now from the PI sites, there's plenty of people like that on these forums. I remember going to Thailand for the first time about 20 years ago with my Thai wife, and our trip included some time in Pattaya, where she had a brother living. There were plenty of bitter expats then in the bars, crying about how bad it had gotten and how they missed the good old days. So no surprise there's a crew now on the forums who do the same.

But not to say things don't actually change-- no doubt that Thailand has exploded compared to the PI, and my own guess is, again, the PI won't catch up any time soon. Thailand will have this bump and maybe more in the next decade or so, but it will stay ahead of the PI for the same reasons it's done better in the the past decades. And there is one major variable that can't be discussed per forum rules.)

It's an individual thing, I think, in terms of which country is better. I like Thailand better because of the people and the food, and also the lack of any major Christian religious tradition and the relatively smaller impact the US has had on Thailand (guess that makes it more exotic to me). I like it that English is not widely spoken because there's the challenge to learn Thai. The PI is cheaper. Not too sure the corruption at the retiree level is too different, or the level of crime, although the latter would seem to be driven by the specific area. And in both places, depending on where you go specifically, you can find an expat crowd to suit you if that's something you think you'll want--I know I will.

Best wishes with your planning!

[vantexan]

I would agree that 7 years is really too early to tell which would be the best place to retire to. If you were doing it right now.. I would say Chiang Mai as that was my choice. Cebu (Philippines) is nice as well and I have been to both places. You will get more bang for your buck now in the Philippines as the Thai Currency is going through some robust gains but everything changes over here quickly. Even though I am sure others will disagree, I DO think that Burma or Myanmar might be the place to live in 10 years time. Now? No... In Chiang Mai you do get seasons, and you do get some cold weather, not that I would bring my skis but it gets cold enough in the higher elevations to freeze water.

If you are stuck in your ways... and want the feel of the USA ... Neither location will work for you. Biggest problem you can see right here in this forum. Americans coming here wanting to change Thailand into the USA.. and they do try... Its got allot of the western comforts but with a twist and the twist is what bugs allot of Americans coming here. But hey... if you are open minded and go with the flow its great here, otherwise consider Florida.

=====================================

I'm originally fron Florida, lol, and have no desire to live there. Actually I've taken advantage of my company's transfer policy to see the States, including 3 places on the Mexican Border. I don't need much to be happy, but I would prefer to live somewhere without open animosity towards Americans. That's one of the plusses of the Philippines, very pro American. Unfortunately my company is freezing their pension plan next year and I'll be losing about $9000 a year less than what I would've gotten. So I'm investigating affordable retirement options. There's a thread on the General forum that states that Thailand isn't a 3rd world country and that there just isn't anywhere else that has the combination of infrastructure, low cost, food, etc that Thailand has. Sounds good!

[PhilHarries]

You say you'd never heard of Chiang Mai but after a week reading this forum you think it's the place for you. Don't you think a visit is in order?

And you intend swinging by the Philippines to pick yourself up a wife? Just like that.

So then there will be you and your 'wife' living in a strange land, neither of you knowing the language nor culture.

Anyway, think about Malaysia and the MM2H programme and don't dismiss Viet Nam so much can change in 7 years, I'm intending a drift into semi-retirement in around 5 years but have not settled on my choice of location (75% sure it wil be Thailand).

==========================

Well it does sound like a terrific place but certainly investigating it is in order. Since I don't have a Lear jet I think the Chiang Mai forum would be a good place to start. Don't you? I never said I was going to pick up a wife like a run to the store so why would you think that? I'm hopefully 7 years from retirement and have time to get my ducks in a row. Many American men go to the Philippines to find a wife, nothing unusual there. I have to start somewhere.

Yes I agree that starting from ground zero reading matter, particularly that backed up by personal experience is a good starting point. However I would strongly suggest several visits not just to Chiang Mai but also other areas. Thailand has a tremendous variety of locations from the city life, through small villages (probably not right for you) to coastal towns.

The wife pick up comment was just from the way it came over in your OP. Many Americans do have Filippina wives and many have Thai wives. It just seems a little crazy to get a wife from one country and then relocate to another where you both will be foriegners. That way you have nobody to help sort out that myriad of little issues you will encounter living in Thailand. Setting up home in Thailand is difficult enough with a Thai partner to help with the translations but without one your learning curve will be very steep and expensive.

[vantexan]

Vantexan- I'm also your age and check out this forum with tentative plans of retiring in a similar number of years to Thailand, and possibly Chiang Mai.

You may also want to look at areas near (not in) Pattaya, and also Hua Hin/Cha Am. Those are places many foreigners like. I also like Kanchanaburi, the bridge over the river Kwai area, but it certainly doesn't have the services of Chiang Mai. I've also spent some time in the PI.

My guess is that in seven years things will be about the same in terms of the comparative cost between the PI and Thailand, with both getting somewhat more expensive for US citizens. Agreed 7 years is far out, and it's really just guess work on details at this point, but of course it's never too early to start planning.

Oh, by the way, never mind the jerks being negative. As I'm sure you now from the PI sites, there's plenty of people like that on these forums. I remember going to Thailand for the first time about 20 years ago with my Thai wife, and our trip included some time in Pattaya, where she had a brother living. There were plenty of bitter expats then in the bars, crying about how bad it had gotten and how they missed the good old days. So no surprise there's a crew now on the forums who do the same.

But not to say things don't actually change-- no doubt that Thailand has exploded compared to the PI, and my own guess is, again, the PI won't catch up any time soon. Thailand will have this bump and maybe more in the next decade or so, but it will stay ahead of the PI for the same reasons it's done better in the the past decades. And there is one major variable that can't be discussed per forum rules.)

It's an individual thing, I think, in terms of which country is better. I like Thailand better because of the people and the food, and also the lack of any major Christian religious tradition and the relatively smaller impact the US has had on Thailand (guess that makes it more exotic to me). I like it that English is not widely spoken because there's the challenge to learn Thai. The PI is cheaper. Not too sure the corruption at the retiree level is too different, or the level of crime, although the latter would seem to be driven by the specific area. And in both places, depending on where you go specifically, you can find an expat crowd to suit you if that's something you think you'll want--I know I will.

Best wishes with your planning!

====================================

Thanks and best wishes to you too! I really appreciate the thoughtful replies from you and others. Guess my best bet is to monitor the forum in the coming years and eventually fly over for a look. On the bright side I think our administration has purposely driven the Dollar down to make our products more competitive. Everythiing goes in cycles and eventually the Dollar will probably gain against most currencies. 7 years from now thiings will most likely look up for those with Dollars. Regards

[Ulysses G.]

Where were all the whiners when the baht was 60 to the dollar?

[vantexan]

You say you'd never heard of Chiang Mai but after a week reading this forum you think it's the place for you. Don't you think a visit is in order?

And you intend swinging by the Philippines to pick yourself up a wife? Just like that.

So then there will be you and your 'wife' living in a strange land, neither of you knowing the language nor culture.

Anyway, think about Malaysia and the MM2H programme and don't dismiss Viet Nam so much can change in 7 years, I'm intending a drift into semi-retirement in around 5 years but have not settled on my choice of location (75% sure it wil be Thailand).

==========================

Well it does sound like a terrific place but certainly investigating it is in order. Since I don't have a Lear jet I think the Chiang Mai forum would be a good place to start. Don't you? I never said I was going to pick up a wife like a run to the store so why would you think that? I'm hopefully 7 years from retirement and have time to get my ducks in a row. Many American men go to the Philippines to find a wife, nothing unusual there. I have to start somewhere.

Yes I agree that starting from ground zero reading matter, particularly that backed up by personal experience is a good starting point. However I would strongly suggest several visits not just to Chiang Mai but also other areas. Thailand has a tremendous variety of locations from the city life, through small villages (probably not right for you) to coastal towns.

The wife pick up comment was just from the way it came over in your OP. Many Americans do have Filippina wives and many have Thai wives. It just seems a little crazy to get a wife from one country and then relocate to another where you both will be foriegners. That way you have nobody to help sort out that myriad of little issues you will encounter living in Thailand. Setting up home in Thailand is difficult enough with a Thai partner to help with the translations but without one your learning curve will be very steep and expensive.

=================================================

I honestly don't know much about Thai women but I do know that Filipinas make excellent wiives. Most speak English and they're raised to believe once married always married. There are exceptions but generally that's true. I want someone I can communicate with. You make valid points that I''ll need to consider. Thanks!

[dumspero]

Vantexan- I hope you're right about the dollar's future.

UG- They (you?) were complaining about how prices had gone up anyway. You know, good rate but the prices raised to account for it. I don't think it was true, but it seemed to mollify the whiners since they couldn't prattle on about the rate.

I'd be happy to see it clear 40 and hold...which it will by November 10 of this year.

[Ulysses G.]

UG- They were complaining about how prices had gone up anyway. You know, good rate but the prices raised to account for it. I don't think it was true, but it seemed to mollify the whiners since they couldn't prattle on about the rate.

I remember them running around buying up everything they could and laughing about how everything was "free" while the Thais and those of us who earned baht were broke and miserable.

What goes up has to come down!

[dumspero]

UG- I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't have been laughing, but I was getting such a great price on all those Roloxes and not-yet-built condo units. Why not by a whole floor? Turns out that some things don't go up and then come down. They just never go up...

[jaideeguy]

Having lived 7 yrs in the Phil and 7 yrs in LOS, i feel qualified to put in my 2 pesos worth of opinion.........

I agree with most assessments posted so far and would still be in the Phil, if I had not discovered Thailand 12+ years ago. While living in the Phil, I used to make visa runs to LOS every 6 months....maybe I should call them visa/sanity runs because it is absolutely insane over there and comming to LOS was a nice inexpensive sanity break, then it became obvious that life here as a retired expat was so much more comfortable, and inexpensive [until i got married to a Thai and now have a couple of kids]. But, i think it can be said that here, you get [mostly] what you pay for...where in the Phil, we are fair game for the locals to rip off the foreigner [they call us 'hey joe' there]. lots more beggars, corruption on all levels, polution of air,water, land, but mostly confined to urban areas. once you escape the cities, it is another story...you can find pristine islands, a few native rainforests in the remote mountains where i lived for a couple of years, but with no tv, internet, fresh milk, decent bread etc.

and transportation is mostly painful, crude and slow. for example, it takes 8-10 hrs to travel 250 k from Manila to Baguio City and here it takes less time to travel 750 k from BKK to Chiang Mai. that's because of dreadful road conditions, poor infrastructure, natural calamities [avg. 26 major storms/ yr], no bypases around small towns that have bottlenecks. Inter island travel on the larger 'superferries' can be cheap, comfortable and fun and you can access most islands in the comfort of your own stateroom for small$$

Dangers are more real there as lots of guns, both in the hands of police/security guards but ordinary people like taxi drivers carry home made guns........but i only had a gun pointed at me once in 7 yrs. Common sense will keep you safe in most places and cities are the most dangerous, as is everywhere.

The women there can be as beautiful as Thai women....they are basicly the same stock, malay/chinese with a little extra Spanish and American to spice things up.......but the diference is 'maintenance'. the Thai women are definately better fed and maintain themselves better and are up on fashion, where the uniform of the day for Philipinas is [loose] t-shirt and jeans, not very flattering. Diet is terrible too, with too much grease. Another major difference between Filipinas and Thai women is that the Filipinas are much more romantic, where Thai women are practical. there are no illusions here

Another area where LOS is far ahead is food. Not only is food treated with more respect here from the market to the table, but it is always fresh and spicy. Where in the Phil, it is not respected from the market [where is is displayed with no ice and flies all over the meat] to the table where it is served and stored at room temperature....often, not hot or chilled under storage. And not much spices........... boring, greasy, and unfresh is the best description of Phil cuisine.

I do miss my friends in the Phil, where most speak some English and give you the ILLUSION that they understand it. They are beautiful people and have big hearts, but most would like to leave their country, not like the Thais that enjoy and are proud of what they have here.

All in all, i think that i made the right move by retiring here, but i still do look back fondly on the Philippines and may return to see for my self if it has gone even further downhill as i've heard from friends that still live there, but continue to bitch about the country. I feel lucky in that i was a bit younger when i lived in the Phil and could endure a lot more discomfort and now that i'm pushing 60, i find Thailand is a lot more user friendly for retirement.

And regarding bringing a Filipina wife over here...i once entertained that idea, 'best of both worlds', but saw the problems that occur with other friends doing that. as mentioned earlier, you BOTH will have the language/cultural barrier. Thais make wonderful wives as well and as far as understanding each other, time helps....

Why not spend the next 7 yrs visiting both places for extended periods and see how you feel.

[Ulysses G.]

dumspero Today, 2007-04-16 11:39:36 Post #17

UG- I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't have been laughing, but I was getting such a great price on all those Roloxes and not-yet-built condo units. Why not by a whole floor? Turns out that some things don't go up and then come down. They just never go up...

Don't forget all the big TVs and stereo systems that my buddies were always too cheap to buy before. I couldn't even afford an AM radio at the time.

Last of the big spenders.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[PeaceBlondie]

Howdy, vantexan

From what they say, Thai women make great wives, too. Not that I'd know, having married a Texan. You might want to consider Mexico - not the border towns (they are the toilet, on either side), but the interior.

I retired in Texas on a moderate pension at age 56, and flew out the next day. Going back to the USA to work and live was a big mistake; coming to Thailand was a big improvement. But there are 170-odd countries. You might also want to reconsider your pension date; a few more years at the job might make the pension far larger, so you have a hedge against currency fluctuations and other unforseen catastrophes.

Just imagine what can happen in seven years. Good luck in your search.

[richard10365]

How much money will you have every month when you retire? If we know that, then we will know what kind of lifestyle you might be able to afford when you get here.

[Loaded]

Having lived 7 yrs in the Phil and 7 yrs in LOS, i feel qualified to put in my 2 pesos worth of opinion.........

I agree with most assessments posted so far and would still be in the Phil, if I had not discovered Thailand 12+ years ago. While living in the Phil, I used to make visa runs to LOS every 6 months....maybe I should call them visa/sanity runs because it is absolutely insane over there and comming to LOS was a nice inexpensive sanity break, then it became obvious that life here as a retired expat was so much more comfortable, and inexpensive [until i got married to a Thai and now have a couple of kids]. But, i think it can be said that here, you get [mostly] what you pay for...where in the Phil, we are fair game for the locals to rip off the foreigner [they call us 'hey joe' there]. lots more beggars, corruption on all levels, polution of air,water, land, but mostly confined to urban areas. once you escape the cities, it is another story...you can find pristine islands, a few native rainforests in the remote mountains where i lived for a couple of years, but with no tv, internet, fresh milk, decent bread etc.

and transportation is mostly painful, crude and slow. for example, it takes 8-10 hrs to travel 250 k from Manila to Baguio City and here it takes less time to travel 750 k from BKK to Chiang Mai. that's because of dreadful road conditions, poor infrastructure, natural calamities [avg. 26 major storms/ yr], no bypases around small towns that have bottlenecks. Inter island travel on the larger 'superferries' can be cheap, comfortable and fun and you can access most islands in the comfort of your own stateroom for small$$

Dangers are more real there as lots of guns, both in the hands of police/security guards but ordinary people like taxi drivers carry home made guns........but i only had a gun pointed at me once in 7 yrs. Common sense will keep you safe in most places and cities are the most dangerous, as is everywhere.

The women there can be as beautiful as Thai women....they are basicly the same stock, malay/chinese with a little extra Spanish and American to spice things up.......but the diference is 'maintenance'. the Thai women are definately better fed and maintain themselves better and are up on fashion, where the uniform of the day for Philipinas is [loose] t-shirt and jeans, not very flattering. Diet is terrible too, with too much grease. Another major difference between Filipinas and Thai women is that the Filipinas are much more romantic, where Thai women are practical. there are no illusions here

Another area where LOS is far ahead is food. Not only is food treated with more respect here from the market to the table, but it is always fresh and spicy. Where in the Phil, it is not respected from the market [where is is displayed with no ice and flies all over the meat] to the table where it is served and stored at room temperature....often, not hot or chilled under storage. And not much spices........... boring, greasy, and unfresh is the best description of Phil cuisine.

I do miss my friends in the Phil, where most speak some English and give you the ILLUSION that they understand it. They are beautiful people and have big hearts, but most would like to leave their country, not like the Thais that enjoy and are proud of what they have here.

All in all, i think that i made the right move by retiring here, but i still do look back fondly on the Philippines and may return to see for my self if it has gone even further downhill as i've heard from friends that still live there, but continue to bitch about the country. I feel lucky in that i was a bit younger when i lived in the Phil and could endure a lot more discomfort and now that i'm pushing 60, i find Thailand is a lot more user friendly for retirement.

And regarding bringing a Filipina wife over here...i once entertained that idea, 'best of both worlds', but saw the problems that occur with other friends doing that. as mentioned earlier, you BOTH will have the language/cultural barrier. Thais make wonderful wives as well and as far as understanding each other, time helps....

Why not spend the next 7 yrs visiting both places for extended periods and see how you feel.

I've often wondered about the Philipines. Thanks for the heads-up jaideeguy.

[john b good]

hello you are 45 and you want to retire at 52 ..

and now you are planning . where to go .

well is god to plan ahead .. but 7 years is along way to go ..

my suggestion is check back in 5-6 years time .. thing would change so much in mere 3 years .

not to say 5 - 7 years

any advice now would not valid in 5-7 years time.

the world is changing the weather is changing . the economic is changing . 5-7 yeard own the roads . who know amercia might be a cheaper place to stay after the second great depression whahahhaa whahahahha

well .. who know burma is relaly a much better choice maybe in 7 years or north korea

================================================================

I'm sorry, did I say something offensive? I'm not looking to live a lavish lifestyle, just want to get by. I realize the option to live in another country isn't one that many people in countries like Thailand have. But at least I'll be spending my money in your economy. I'm assuming you're Thai or someone who dislikes Americans, or both. Sorry you feel that way. I assure you I worked very hard for the small pension I'll be getting. I've traveled all over the U.S. but my goal is to live overseas someday. For the longest time I thought the Philippines was the place for me. But if there's a better place I'd love to hear about it.

No, I couldn't see anything offensive in your OP

After a while you will realise that TA just expresses himself a bit differently.

Quite often he is close to the mark, but, it's just the way it comes out

[Donnyboy]

Having lived 7 yrs in the Phil and 7 yrs in LOS, i feel qualified to put in my 2 pesos worth of opinion.........

I agree with most assessments posted so far and would still be in the Phil, if I had not discovered Thailand 12+ years ago. While living in the Phil, I used to make visa runs to LOS every 6 months....maybe I should call them visa/sanity runs because it is absolutely insane over there and comming to LOS was a nice inexpensive sanity break, then it became obvious that life here as a retired expat was so much more comfortable, and inexpensive [until i got married to a Thai and now have a couple of kids]. But, i think it can be said that here, you get [mostly] what you pay for...where in the Phil, we are fair game for the locals to rip off the foreigner [they call us 'hey joe' there]. lots more beggars, corruption on all levels, polution of air,water, land, but mostly confined to urban areas. once you escape the cities, it is another story...you can find pristine islands, a few native rainforests in the remote mountains where i lived for a couple of years, but with no tv, internet, fresh milk, decent bread etc.

and transportation is mostly painful, crude and slow. for example, it takes 8-10 hrs to travel 250 k from Manila to Baguio City and here it takes less time to travel 750 k from BKK to Chiang Mai. that's because of dreadful road conditions, poor infrastructure, natural calamities [avg. 26 major storms/ yr], no bypases around small towns that have bottlenecks. Inter island travel on the larger 'superferries' can be cheap, comfortable and fun and you can access most islands in the comfort of your own stateroom for small$$

Dangers are more real there as lots of guns, both in the hands of police/security guards but ordinary people like taxi drivers carry home made guns........but i only had a gun pointed at me once in 7 yrs. Common sense will keep you safe in most places and cities are the most dangerous, as is everywhere.

The women there can be as beautiful as Thai women....they are basicly the same stock, malay/chinese with a little extra Spanish and American to spice things up.......but the diference is 'maintenance'. the Thai women are definately better fed and maintain themselves better and are up on fashion, where the uniform of the day for Philipinas is [loose] t-shirt and jeans, not very flattering. Diet is terrible too, with too much grease. Another major difference between Filipinas and Thai women is that the Filipinas are much more romantic, where Thai women are practical. there are no illusions here

Another area where LOS is far ahead is food. Not only is food treated with more respect here from the market to the table, but it is always fresh and spicy. Where in the Phil, it is not respected from the market [where is is displayed with no ice and flies all over the meat] to the table where it is served and stored at room temperature....often, not hot or chilled under storage. And not much spices........... boring, greasy, and unfresh is the best description of Phil cuisine.

I do miss my friends in the Phil, where most speak some English and give you the ILLUSION that they understand it. They are beautiful people and have big hearts, but most would like to leave their country, not like the Thais that enjoy and are proud of what they have here.

All in all, i think that i made the right move by retiring here, but i still do look back fondly on the Philippines and may return to see for my self if it has gone even further downhill as i've heard from friends that still live there, but continue to bitch about the country. I feel lucky in that i was a bit younger when i lived in the Phil and could endure a lot more discomfort and now that i'm pushing 60, i find Thailand is a lot more user friendly for retirement.

And regarding bringing a Filipina wife over here...i once entertained that idea, 'best of both worlds', but saw the problems that occur with other friends doing that. as mentioned earlier, you BOTH will have the language/cultural barrier. Thais make wonderful wives as well and as far as understanding each other, time helps....

Why not spend the next 7 yrs visiting both places for extended periods and see how you feel.

great post jaideeguy. I too always wondered if Phil was better than LOS in living standards, comforts etc. now I know more.

[calibanjr.]

Vantexman, just come and hang in CM for a while. As to attitudes toward us Yanks, the TV forum is a lot more harsh on us, even if only in bitchy-posting episodes (some even showing a modicum of wit), than the Thais ever will be. One benefit of the Thais being as "Kingdom-oriented" as they are is that they pretty much ignore what passes for our "foreign policy", thank God! I wish everybody could ignore the tragi-comic show we're putting on.

Basically, if you have (or can at least maintain the appearance of) jai yen/jai dee, bother to learn a bit (or more) of Thai, and don't make too much of a mess about you, I haven't found a more profoundly stress-free place to live. You will miss things from home (and you, me and others will whine a bit about it on TV), and decide whether the compromises are worth it. For me, the only things that really gnaw on me are things that I'm working on with tech issues (e.g., live Red Sox games, which I get on the radio, which suffices, for now; non-blockbuster movies, P2P issues)

I'm never going to fault somebody for doing research too early. Keep it up.

[sceadugenga]

dumspero Today, 2007-04-16 11:39:36 Post #17

UG- I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't have been laughing, but I was getting such a great price on all those Roloxes and not-yet-built condo units. Why not by a whole floor? Turns out that some things don't go up and then come down. They just never go up...

Don't forget all the big TVs and stereo systems that my buddies were always too cheap to buy before. I couldn't even afford an AM radio at the time.

Last of the big spenders.

Is this what the Scots call "having a wee gloat" General?

[ilyushin]

Why not retire in both? Nice place in PI and a peaceful retreat in Chiang Mai. Get a nice place in both and easily travel between the two. Makes living in retirement more fun too!

Actually, I prefer Thailand all locations over PI. The PI used to be special drinking destination for me 1996 through 2005. Two weeks at a time and it lost the charm. I always went back though. Just go once a year now for a few days.

Also as an earlier posted "wait" as thing change in 7 years. Very true both places could be off the list.

You still have some time.

[sceadugenga]

Why not retire in both? Nice place in PI and a peaceful retreat in Chiang Mai. Get a nice place in both and easily travel between the two. Makes living in retirement more fun too!

Actually, I prefer Thailand all locations over PI. The PI used to be special drinking destination for me 1996 through 2005. Two weeks at a time and it lost the charm. I always went back though. Just go once a year now for a few days.

Also as an earlier posted "wait" as thing change in 7 years. Very true both places could be off the list.

You still have some time.

Two wives?

[Ulysses G.]

dumspero Today, 2007-04-16 11:39:36 Post #17

UG- I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't have been laughing, but I was getting such a great price on all those Roloxes and not-yet-built condo units. Why not by a whole floor? Turns out that some things don't go up and then come down. They just never go up...

Don't forget all the big TVs and stereo systems that my buddies were always too cheap to buy before. I couldn't even afford an AM radio at the time.

Last of the big spenders.

Is this what the Scots call "having a wee gloat" General?

Only a wee one. I am actually sympathetic, but I do remember when some of these guys were buying up the whole town in 1997 and no regrets at all.

[mcgriffith]

Hi Everyone,

I've been following several Yahoo groups on living in the Philippines for years. I'm 45, hope to be retired by 52. Many of the postings on those groups make me wonder if living in the Philippines is such a good idea. There's a 70% poverty rate, extraordinary corruption, political instability, etc. The birthrate is supposed to be Asia's highest. I'm concerned that the problems will only get worse. Recently a group member emailed me saying he and his Filipina wife have had enough of the Philippines.and were moving to Thailand. That got me wondering and led to this forum.

To be honest I'd never heard of Chiang Mai. But after following the Thai Visa forum for a week I quickly picked up that it was what I'm looking for. It appears to have a lifestyle that can only be obtained in the Philippines by constantly dealing with various problems. I may still go to the Phillipines to find a wife, but mostly I want an easygoing, affordable retirement with minimal hassle. Is Chiang Mai that place? I can't afford retiring in the States so it's either Southeast Asia or Latin America. I like the nearness of Singapore for visa runs. It's large bookstores like Borders make it a plus when determining where to live.

So would you recommend Chiang Mai for someone who likes to read, watch moviies, and eat out? Are the problems of a foreigner living in Thailand as bad as the Philippines or much less? Thanks!

Hey vantexan,

I'll chime in with my 2 satangs worth. I moved here last July (06) after researching a lot of places on myriad websites, such as internationalliving.com, escapeartist.com, etc.

Ironically I ended up in Chiang Mai, although it is not very covered in those websites, because I have a good friend who has been coming here for years, who insisted this place would work for me. I had been here once before, in 1975 (!!!!!!!!!)

I also thought about PI, west coast of Mexico, Yucatan (Mexico), Pacific coastal Nicaragua, Panama, etc. I speak almost perfect Spanish, so the Central American places have a great attraction. I have travelled extensively in these places (as well as most of the rest of the world) so I am quite familiar with them. So WHY (my emphasis) did I end up in Chiang Mai?

1) Great user-friendly infrastructure. Ex: world class hospitals where most Drs. were educated in US or EU, and speak English. Big shopping malls, and hyperstores (like Costco/WalMart in US) where you can pretty much find anything you want or need. Well paved roads, with excellent signage. This is not a 3rd world country, not by a long shot. It is very developed for where it is in SE Asia.

2) It is very inexpensive to live here. This is very subjective. Do you want to maintain the exact same comfort and lifestyle you enjoy in the US? Need to have a big SUV? Large house? You can spend as much or as little as you want here. I have friends who live here comfortably on $500/mo. I read on thaivisa.com's main forum about some people who can't survive on $2500/mo. (mostly in Bangkok). I know people here in CM who are multi-millionaires, own houses all over the world, but who choose to live here (because of family, children, etc.).

3) The culture, lifestyle and general attractiveness of the people is very nice. No Tammy Faye Bakers here. 'Nough said.

I could go on with points 4-99, but I want to keep it short. I am 85% sure I am going to stay here. I am just trying the place out, and am lucky in that I have the wherewithal to move anywhere.

I suggest (as some others also mentioned) that you come here, perhaps for a brief 1 week holiday visit. Try the wet season (July-Oct) when it is hot, humid, rains a bit, and is relatively uncrowded. See if you like the vibe. Then if you do decide to move here, keep your options open to leave and live elsewhere. Don't immediately get married, buy a house, invest in a business, etc. See the lay of the land, and when you are sure this is it, ease into it....

PS Fantastic town for bookstores, movies and eating out. You won't be disappointed in CM!

Edited April 16, 2007 by mcgriffith