Thailand Is Down?

[blizzard]

just cause the docotr cant find a driver and gardener doesnt mean the economy is booming. he does sound like he would be a tough boss.

[ColPyat]

I forgot if you speak Thai, if not, then your staff would have to peak some English as well, which puts the pay scale up again. Many non-English speaking Thais are terrified to work for Farang who don't speak Thai.

i spent 16.000 baht for the driver's english lessons. what english is required to understand "Tesco, Lotus, Carrefour, Friendship, Foodland, Beach Road, Royal Plaza Mall, Jomtien, Airport"?

I have just read that neither you nor your wife speaks Thai.

Well, having staff means that you have to communicate a bit more than the places you want to be driven. They may have a few more complex problems to communicate to their employer. Yes, the pay scale is what Thais usually pay their staff, with a few variations up or down. And i have seen many Thai house holds with exactly the same problems with unqualified staff on low salaries (mostly far lower than what you offer).

Nevertheless, almost all non Thai speaking foreigners i have known - expats on full package, diplomats, etc, pay far more to their English speaking staff, who were mostly also far more qualified in general. There is a very busy staff exchange going on between leaving and arriving expats and diplomats. This is staff that almost exclusively works for non-Thai speaking expats, and they would not generally work for 7000 Baht.

As you are prepared to pay more for good staff, I would suggest that you have a look around the different upper scale expat clubs, and let it be known that you look for qualified staff with recommendations of previous employers. I am sure that you will find what you need.

Edited April 16, 2007 by ColPyat

[Naam]

Well, having staff means that you have to communicate a bit more than the places you want to be driven. They may have a few more complex problems to communicate to their employer. Yes, the pay scale is what Thais usually pay their staff, with a few variations up or down.

but Thais let their staff work triple the hours. is it a solution that i pay more and let the driver or the gardener hang around poking their noses? perhaps it is. you tell me.

[Mid]

OK so you agree that this 'booming' is only happening in a tourist area then ??

i don't know. all what i did was airing my personal problems and hope for some advice.

Apologies.. I thought you were mocking the thailand is down thread..

my impression also and I'm not ready with the apologies yet .

[Naam]

[ I would suggest that you have a look around the different upper scale expat clubs, and let it be known that you look for qualified staff with recommendations of previous employers. I am sure that you will find what you need.

upper scale expat clubs in Pattaya? i attended a few meetings in various clubs and did not realize anything "upper scale". perhaps i need some guidance. my problem is that i have virtually no social contacts. in fact i hate to cross my property line. my wife has to threaten me with draconic measure to take her out for dinner once in a blue moon.

[ColPyat]

Well, having staff means that you have to communicate a bit more than the places you want to be driven. They may have a few more complex problems to communicate to their employer. Yes, the pay scale is what Thais usually pay their staff, with a few variations up or down.

but Thais let their staff work triple the hours. is it a solution that i pay more and let the driver or the gardener hang around poking their noses? perhaps it is. you tell me.

The solution would be to get qualified staff with written recommendations, with whom you can easily communicate, and which you pay then accordingly. It would also be wise to make legal contracts, pay social security etc.

Or you start learning Thai, if you want to have staff on Thai conditions. But you should know that Thais have many similar problems with staff as well.

[ColPyat]

[ I would suggest that you have a look around the different upper scale expat clubs, and let it be known that you look for qualified staff with recommendations of previous employers. I am sure that you will find what you need.

upper scale expat clubs in Pattaya? i attended a few meetings in various clubs and did not realize anything "upper scale". perhaps i need some guidance. my problem is that i have virtually no social contacts. in fact i hate to cross my property line. my wife has to threaten me with draconic measure to take her out for dinner once in a blue moon.

In Pattaya i don't really know, only in Bangkok.

I would suggest the Yacht Club, the upper range Golf Clubs, Chambers of Commerce and Industry. Maybe somebody who lives in Pattaya has some better suggestions?

Edited April 16, 2007 by ColPyat

[blizzard]

i thought this was a place for serious concerns only. im glad i read this thread, its freakin funny.

[ColPyat]

i thought this was a place for serious concerns only. im glad i read this thread, its freakin funny.

Maybe the "Thai Toilet Etiquette" thread would then be more suitable to your palate?

Edited April 16, 2007 by ColPyat

[A_Traveller]

Am I alone in finding this thread bizarre? After all the OP has been here, so he informs us for a considerable time, using his skills to increase his wealth through investing, but has after 30 year exposure not been able to spend the time to learn enough Thai so he might communicate with and therefore manage his Thai domestic staff.

If his response is 'I've got better things to do with my time', viz above, then he should expect to pay a premium for staff who fit his management model.

Regards

[Naam]

i thought this was a place for serious concerns only. im glad i read this thread, its freakin funny.

Maybe the "Thai Toilet Etiquette" thread would then be more suitable to your palate?

if i'm not mistaken there are also quite interesting threads such as

"excellent lunch for 27 baht and 50 satang"

and

"how i made the electricity company pay me for my low consumption".

[Naam]

Am I alone in finding this thread bizarre? After all the OP has been here, so he informs us for a considerable time, using his skills to increase his wealth through investing, but has after 30 year exposure not been able to spend the time to learn enough Thai so he might communicate with and therefore manage his Thai domestic staff.

If his response is 'I've got better things to do with my time', viz above, then he should expect to pay a premium for staff who fit his management model.

Regards

the only "bizarre" thing is the thought that by being able to communicate one can manage staff. obviously you have never managed staff in your life.

[A_Traveller]

Am I alone in finding this thread bizarre? After all the OP has been here, so he informs us for a considerable time, using his skills to increase his wealth through investing, but has after 30 year exposure not been able to spend the time to learn enough Thai so he might communicate with and therefore manage his Thai domestic staff.

If his response is 'I've got better things to do with my time', viz above, then he should expect to pay a premium for staff who fit his management model.

Regards

the only "bizarre" thing is the thought that by being able to communicate one can manage staff. obviously you have never managed staff in your life.

You have no idea how hilarious that is in the analogue.

To be serious, please reread you response and think about it. If one does not communicate how can one provide goals, due focus, work plans, required protocols for activities?

Regards

[smartecosse]

the only "bizarre" thing is the thought that by being able to communicate one can manage staff. obviously you have never managed staff in your life.

you got that right

[slackula]

Is it out of the question for the OP's wife to learn to drive herself around? It would solve one issue quite nicely.

With regard to the gardening, why not pay somebody currently employed at a hotel or golf course to keep the grounds in order as a side job to his main job or ask a neighbour to split the costs and share a gardener with them to increase the salary and make the job more attractive?

[slackula]

the only "bizarre" thing is the thought that by being able to communicate one can manage staff. obviously you have never managed staff in your life.

Rather an odd statement

Are you suggesting that communication is not important when managing people?

[smartecosse]

the only "bizarre" thing is the thought that by being able to communicate one can manage staff. obviously you have never managed staff in your life.

Rather an odd statement

Are you suggesting that communication is not important when managing people?

i think what the OP is trying to point out that even if you are the "world's #1 communicator" if you are dealing with a brainless moron you may have a hard time getting your point accross

this is not a Thai phenonomen

[blizzard]

i think the doctor should get a new wife. the one he got dont sound too good...............lol.

[oooooo]

hey dr naam

why don't you make me chief of staff? i can handle them.

[smartecosse]

WANTED : New Wife

Must be able to drive and be a competant Gardner

[slackula]

the only "bizarre" thing is the thought that by being able to communicate one can manage staff. obviously you have never managed staff in your life.

Rather an odd statement

Are you suggesting that communication is not important when managing people?

i think what the OP is trying to point out that even if you are the "world's #1 communicator" if you are dealing with a brainless moron you may have a hard time getting your point accross

this is not a Thai phenonomen

My point was about management of people. If you are employing, and referring to your staff as, "brainless morons" then the problem probably runs deeper than communication.

[terry57]

i used to have this thai guy working in our dive shop.

he was a great guy and i really liked him a lot as he done some brilliant work when he was feeling like it.

but sometimes he would just disappear of the face of the planet and go on a huge bender sometimes for a week at a time.

he would then suddenly turn up again looking like death and start work again.

it would take him a few days to get back into it and then he would be brilliant again until he disappeared again.

i got used to it fairly quickly but my partners used to hate it.

i cut the guy a lot of slack as when he worked he earned his money and needless to say, me and him were great mates.

i miss my great friend pea'ack and hope to one day meet him again.

anyway,

i learnt early in the peace that thais are nomadic and sometimes like to go walk about.

i think when they are being payed these rates we must cut them a lot of slack.

[Lesumare]

Dr. Naam, what a celebrity in Pattaya !

[smartecosse]

the only "bizarre" thing is the thought that by being able to communicate one can manage staff. obviously you have never managed staff in your life.

Rather an odd statement

Are you suggesting that communication is not important when managing people?

i think what the OP is trying to point out that even if you are the "world's #1 communicator" if you are dealing with a brainless moron you may have a hard time getting your point accross

this is not a Thai phenonomen

My point was about management of people. If you are employing, and referring to your staff as, "brainless morons" then the problem probably runs deeper than communication.

and you are missing my point. If with a team of twenty there are consisitently two that fail to understand even the simplest of basic procedures that if broken down any firther for them would just be letters then its not the communication, it is them.

I am lucky enough not to currnetly employ any "brainless morons" but have done so in the past and its frustrating to say the least

[Naam]

the only "bizarre" thing is the thought that by being able to communicate one can manage staff. obviously you have never managed staff in your life.

Rather an odd statement

Are you suggesting that communication is not important when managing people?

one communicates with the production manager, the chief financial officer, the personnel department et al and one manages a company.

one does not "manage" a qualified driver or a gardener. both i had till a few hours ago. they are fired but they don't know as none of them has turned up yet. what is there to communicate? should i learn thai to tell the driver:

"ahmmm... Khun Driver... there is something on my mind. i apologize for bringing up this subject... but my wife drives me crazy. you know how it is with wives... you are married too. every time you want a few days off you tell my wife one day before you leave. would you please be kind enough and inform us several days in advance if you decide again to become a monk for three weeks? five days off for Songkhran is a different animal and it is virtually impossible to give any advance notice. we all know that this important thai festival has no fixed date and the actual date of water throwing will be decided just a few hours before.

and... of course i don't dare to tell you that i know what you did with the 25.000 baht advance which were supposed to pay for the hospital bills of your sick father. because if i tell you that would be bad management and because this is Asia you would lose face. nevertheless i wonder why you did not lose face when you knelt in front of me weeping and asking for that advance. i sincerely hope no face was lost (except perhaps my stupid farang face) when i told you not to worry, gave you the money without hesitation, without you signing a piece of scrap paper and wished your father all the best."

the same applies (more or less) to the gardener.

i invite all bleeding hearts to render more advice except for rubbish like "learn thai to manage your driver and gardener".

[A_Traveller]

To me the phrase Physician, heal thyself seems strangely apposite.

Regards

[Naam]

just cause the docotr cant find a driver and gardener doesnt mean the economy is booming. he does sound like he would be a tough boss.

not all all blizzard. my problem is that i treated my thai employees like human beings. sent quite often the gardener home at 2 in the afternoon, told him "no work on sunday", let him work a couple of hours on a saturday. asked my wife whether she plans to go shopping the next day... if not the driver does not have to appear for work.

needless to say that never any money was deducted from their salaries when they took off to visit their village or just having a good time with a girl and a bottle of Lao Khao.

obviously my behaviour was not appropriate and my generosity was seen as either weakness or just plain farang stupidity. i promise to change!

[Naam]

To be serious, please reread you response and think about it. If one does not communicate how can one provide goals, due focus, work plans, required protocols for activities?

goals, focus, work plans, protocols for activities for a driver and a gardener? shall i sit down with the driver and work out a routing from our home to Carrefour? provide goals for the gardener "if the grass or any plant looks dry your activity should focus on watering"?

aren't we getting carried away a wee bit?

[bkkmadness]

A bit of communication is needed though isn't it? Just to tell them if they are late again they will be facing the sack or whatever, doesn't need to be much but it'll help.

You talk about how they don't need to be managed but then describe to us how you do manage your staff.

my problem is that i treated my thai employees like human beings. sent quite often the gardener home at 2 in the afternoon, told him "no work on sunday", let him work a couple of hours on a saturday. asked my wife whether she plans to go shopping the next day... if not the driver does not have to appear for work.

needless to say that never any money was deducted from their salaries when they took off to visit their village or just having a good time with a girl and a bottle of Lao Khao.

obviously my behaviour was not appropriate and my generosity was seen as either weakness or just plain farang stupidity. i promise to change!

End of the day you managed them badly, gave them an inch and they took a mile forcing you to quite rightly sack them. It's not a case of treating your staff like human beings, you can still do that but at the remember they are staff and though an odd extra day off here and then isn't hurting anyone you seem to come across as overly generous and it leads the staff to think your a weak boss, and a typical stupid farang that accepts bad service for his money. OK it turned out they was wrong about this but now you are stuck looking for staff again so I'd be a bit stricter next time.

[j_cheung]

Dr. Naam,

Have you ever considered looking for just a part-time driver and gardener in Pattaya instead? Certainly, there has to be a few reputable professional drivers and gardeners that are their own bosses (or even companies that provide such services) and are more than willing to suit your demands at the right price. You probably need to look more around the local expatriate circles or foreigners' community markets.

Although I'm unsure about Pattaya & Thailand at large, there's plenty around here in the major cities in China.