All About Lose Of Face

[Andrew Hicks]

My Wife is on a long Holiday back with the family in Udon Thani,

while the children are young, I sugested that the children and herself

stayed with her family for 3 months, as when they get to school age

this will not be possible,

So far they have been there for 2 of the 3 months, tonight I get a phone call, telling me that

her Father has kicked the crap out of her,

The reason is from what I can gather, my wife has made her family loose face,

She has met up with some old school friends (male) and gone out for a drink at the local

bar with them,Nothing untoward has happened,My son was with her at the time playing with the Bar owners childeren,

Father has seen red and punished her.also hurt my son accidently in the process,

Now I have to arrange some flights so that I can bring them all home.

I am very very angry at his reaction in my opinoin is way over the top.

When I get to Udon I want to punish him for his actions, but as a farlang I know I can not.

(fight fire with fire) any sugestions as what I can do.

Sorry if this does not may 100% sense but the red mist is still with me

I will be flying out from the UK on Tuesday, from the UK, and want to sort the problem out, one way or another, before we return.

Thanks

Templer

Very difficult indeed, even without the barriers of culture and language.

What would you do if your English father-in-law knocked your English wife around for doing something inappropriate in your absence? I guess talk it through with her, being generally supportive and not too judgmental of her. Then hear what members of her family have to say about his behaviour and if they think he was totally out of line (which in our culture he definitely is), encourage them to work on him to offer some sort of reconciliation or apology.

In the present context that's probably impossible. So what options does that leave you? Supporting your wife of course and probably keeping her out of the way of her Dad.

If in any way you try a more direct approach, you'd be courting disaster. If you have a go at Dad, you'll be misunderstood by the whole family and ultimately your wife might even side with them. It could always escalate and as you are unable to put your point of view, you will always be wrong.

Jai yin yin mate and choke dee.

Andrew

[Jimmyd]

I cannot believe what I am reading. It seems that many of you insist that Thais have a right to commit violence against each other because of some cultural thing. That's a load of BS.

The OP should go to Thailand to collect his wife immediately, and then tell off the father. If the father loses face, then so what. He is just a person, not deserving of any more respect than anyone else, including his own daughter.

Telling off the father would result in what positive outcome?

[mackayae]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope your wife is better and the children are ok.

I would tell your wife and children that you love them and ask them if they want to come home.

If you do go there, I would give them each a big hug and kiss and return home with the family. The less said the better. If you and your wife wish to pursue the matter, I would go to the tourist or regular police and ask for their advice. The Udon police and tourist police are helpful.

The less said the better. Time will heal. Let the wife and children bring up the episode in their own time. In the meantime show them all your love and support.

There is a growing community of Thai- Farang families in Udon; I even know of two from Essex. udonmap.com can be a source for advice and help.

[blizzard]

as far as the husband knows the boys were harmless.... who told him that, his wife?

papa knows best...........only kidding. usually the whole story doesnt come out, only the part that makes the in law look bad. with interracial things its always the thai playing the bad part.

ps i dont condone beating.

Edited April 21, 2007 by blizzard

[larvidchr]

I just asked my Thai girlfriend about this dilemma, she says that the wife defenetly was in the wrong going drinking with only male friends in a bar without being together with some other adult member of the family, she also states that Thai men have a hard time understanding the concept of "only friends" with a girl that behaves like that in the village.

On the other hand she does not think it was allright of the father if the beating was severe, but says that ultimately this is a family matter where the OP is best served by leaving it alone to be sorted out in the family, she says if the OP makes the father loose face it will/can ruin family relations forever besides it can be dangerous to for the OP.

This from my Thai girlfriend.

[kurgen]

A weekly beating is the key to a healthy marriage.

I'm sure my wife looks forward to it although I wish she wouldn't use the big stick all the time, the bruises take ages to go

[bkkandrew]

One solution would be for you to give her a good kicking also and see what comes of that...

Seriously though, I think that this one is best left to be forgotten about, unless you enjoy opening big cans of worms...

[Jimmyd]

I can't believe how many people are saying it's OK to beat someone up or keep quiet maybe the father was right etc.

Whether you are in Thailand or wherever, domestic violence is wrong full stop. Keeping quiet about it is going to make it worse.

No one in my husbands family bashes any one and they are all Thai, its the same as anywhere people either do it or they don't . Nobody stops them and then the younger generation see it and the pattern continues.

It happens only because the perpetrator thinks they can get away with it and has not been forced to find ways to control their anger or redirect it.

And I know this is Thailand but often this loss of face thing is just used as an excuse.

Quiet frankly if it was me I would go turn the argument round on him and tell him that I had lost face because my father-in - law was a cowardly woman basher. Whatever your wife has done is now beside the point , whatever it was it was no excuse for physical violence.

Nobody said it's ok to beat someone up. If you make inflammatory statements like that, be prepared to back them up.

You seem to believe that confronting the father-in-law will change his ways. I truly doubt that, so much so that in my opinion there is no reason to talk to the father. I don't think he believes he 'can get away with it,' I think the father-in-law believes he did the right thing. In his morality he is right. The husband has a different set of morals. His job is to negotiate with his wife to try to reach some common ground on how best to help his children choose the right set of morals.

Whether the woman chooses to cut her father out of her life completely should be her choice, not the husband's. If he confronts the father-in-law at all it should be with his wife's knowledge and approval. The husband and wife should, however, decide what access they think the children should have to the grandfather. I would not cut him out of my family's life if this happened to me, but that's their choice. I *would* try to make sure that the opportunity for violence from the father-in-law never presented itself again.

If the kids remember the incident, I might try to use the situation to help the children understand how different people have different morals. I would also try to convince them that violence in this context is wrong, but ultimately it is up to the children themselves to develop their own moral code.

[blizzard]

they always miss the point. teach yr kids if you a married woman dont go out with bunch of horny thai guys. or if you a m arried man dont go out with bucnh of horny chick(if there are any).

[dave111223]

Here's some suggestions:

1) Talk to the father, tell him that your wife is now your responsibility, not his, and he should refrain from using any forceful disappline with her. (No need to mention the past beating)

2) Don't allow your wife to visit her family without you also going.

3) Next time instead of sending your wife back home, offer to fly the parents to the UK.

The guy is probably an abusive SOB anyways, and nothing you can do will be likely to change that.

[Pink Mist]

they always miss the point. teach yr kids if you a married woman dont go out with bunch of horny thai guys. or if you a m arried man dont go out with bucnh of horny chick(if there are any).

the point of your post is?

[tijnebijn]

First of all it is not 'normal'for respected thai families who mareyaat.Even more when this is happening while your children are witness of this.i for instance would except no more then an apologise and after that I would ignore him forever.I mean he looses face to you!And because she is your wife if it was normal to punish her what is not,it would be the business between the wife and you.I suspect their is more in this sequence and that is the never avoiding money money thing,which she might not want to give,keep this in the backhead,also if their was more it is very unlikely the spouse will ever tell you,cuse it is the thaiway too not have to tell things if it only could make worse to avoid any topic.It allready happened and I would ignore this bloke forever until....who knows one day....but will need a lot ,words are not enough!

[blizzard]

my point is wouldnt you want to know why your wife needs to go out pubbing with the boys.

forget about papa he aint married to him, although i do believe if u marry thai girl u marry her mama, papa, uncles, village etc.

[bkkmadness]

ultimately this is a family matter where the OP is best served by leaving it alone to be sorted out in the family,

But it's the OP's family as well, his wife got beaten and his son got hurt amidst the violence which I suppose means the poor kid was subject to watching his mother getting beaten up as well.

If someone beat my wife and hurt my kid they would have some explaining to do and it'll need to be a ######ing good explanation. I couldn't just pick them up and forget the situation so easily.

I would like to know the father's motives for it, as much as it might have been over the top if the guy isn't historically a drunk child beater or some such then something about your wife's behaviour set him off and that'd concern me.

If on the other hand he is a guy that regularly likes to dish out a few beatings to the family then my kid wouldn't be near him again for a start.

[blizzard]

thanks, its something about the wifes behaviour that may have set him off. wheres dr phil or dr laura?

nicely said, i like the direct approach, maybe i should be more diplomatic. more politically correct as thet say.

[meemiathai]

Here's some suggestions:

1) Talk to the father, tell him that your wife is now your responsibility, not his, and he should refrain from using any forceful disappline with her. (No need to mention the past beating)

What? The father speaks english?

Either the OP is lying or the wife is.

[dingue2rep]

My Wife is on a long Holiday back with the family in Udon Thani,

while the children are young, I sugested that the children and herself

stayed with her family for 3 months, as when they get to school age

this will not be possible,

So far they have been there for 2 of the 3 months, tonight I get a phone call, telling me that

her Father has kicked the crap out of her,

The reason is from what I can gather, my wife has made her family loose face,

She has met up with some old school friends (male) and gone out for a drink at the local

bar with them,Nothing untoward has happened,My son was with her at the time playing with the Bar owners childeren,

Father has seen red and punished her.also hurt my son accidently in the process,

Now I have to arrange some flights so that I can bring them all home.

I am very very angry at his reaction in my opinoin is way over the top.

When I get to Udon I want to punish him for his actions, but as a farlang I know I can not.

(fight fire with fire) any sugestions as what I can do.

Sorry if this does not may 100% sense but the red mist is still with me

I will be flying out from the UK on Tuesday, from the UK, and want to sort the problem out, one way or another, before we return.

Thanks

Templer

Married close on 20 years to a Thai girl - and have lived in Thailand with her and our children all the time - so heres my advice.

I suggest you keep your cool and just bring the family home if that is what you wish.

Then if need be, try and establish discreetly through a 3rd party what dad's take on the situation was - as somone else has said, it's a little odd (but not impossible) that he has re-acted so strongly to what you have been told was a perfectly innocent encounter. By the same token, I find it odd that your wife would be confiding in you about this if it was anything else other than completly innocent.

And as always is the case - there is always 3 sides to these stories: first his, then hers - and then the truth!

But whatever - keep a straight face, stay your cool and treat Pa as you always have - however looked at, there's little doubt he was batting for you (even if he did get it wrong this time).

MF

Women usaully also exagerate in order to get YOUR sympathy, sothat you would be mad with dad and overlook her little indiscretion (indeed if there was one?) At least that is what I have experienced a number of times. (not with Thai women, or should I say - not yet). Stay cool on this one, and I am sure dad was batting for you too or should I say beating

[Pink Mist]

thanks, its something about the wifes behaviour that may have set him off. wheres dr phil or dr laura?

nicely said, i like the direct approach, maybe i should be more diplomatic. more politically correct as thet say.

good idea, we dont know the full story, not even the OP.

[bkkmadness]

Well it might have not been the wife's behavior, he may just be a drunk violent guy looking for an excuse. Whatever the reason, I'd have to find out what it was.

Forgetting the wife for a moment, the son was hurt and witness to all this, not something I would let happen to my kid.

I don't know where DR Phil is now, but he was on a private yacht staffed by a mate a few months back. Dr Phil and his mates left a 40 000 Dollar tip for a weeks cruise.

Edited April 21, 2007 by bkkmadness

[alexth]

I'd do more research if I were you and check his version of the story too. Of course violence is not the solution, but try explaining this to a thai Anyways I think you should keep your temper and listen your inlaw's version too before anything. Maybe she answered him in a disrespectful manner when asked where she'd been. Or maybe the guys she went with were the bad apples of the promotion, you never know and don't forget that in Thailand nothing is impossible. Good luck!

[Boo]

As others have said the father may have felt he was trying to save your face in the local community by punishing his daughter for acting too loose whilst her husband was away. Doesn't give him any rights to do so but just pointing out why he probably did it. I personally would tell your wife to come home early & make it clear to her that the kids are no longer allowed to go there without you present too.

No one else has raised this & seem to be focussing on your wife but for me the kid getting hurt is more of a problem, your wife has probably been at the end of his rage in the past & no matter what she has told you, will know his reasoning & will probably in part, know in his mind, he is right. (again not condoning but as a thai women knows that going to bars with single thai men is not acceptable in issan)

My issue is, if her father has no problem hitting his own daughter then he is probably not going to have a problem disciplining your kid in the future IMO. As his daughter, the father may have felt he was responisble for her behaviour as you, her husband was not present. Again I am not making excuses but with regards to what he did to your wife, I wouldn't confront him but make it clear that these extended visits will no longer be allowed as you are now concerned about his violence around or to your kids in future.

If your wifes father has "accidentily" hurt your child in his rage at your wife then he has no control & is therefore capable for hurting the kid in future too should he loose it again.

So IMO, if your wife wishes to continue visiting her family then she needs to let her parents know that they will only be seeing the kids & her with supervision from you in future & let them know the reason is due to this incident.

[blizzard]

my last comment. if the papa was a known abuser im sure the poster would have included it in his first post. lots of down time between poker hands...lol.

[bkkmadness]

my last comment. if the papa was a known abuser im sure the poster would have included it in his first post. lots of down time between poker hands...lol.

That's assuming the OP would know about it which he may well not.

[sierra01]

Definately find out the whole story first, whatever that is hitting a woman is a no no in my book. Make it known to him that he has gone down the toilet in your estimation ( loss of face) and if it happens again he'll be eating his somtam through a straw for the foreseeable future. I really don't like putting restrictions on my wife but for her own safety, and my child's, she only see's him again in my presence.

[Pink Mist]

my last comment. if the papa was a known abuser im sure the poster would have included it in his first post. lots of down time between poker hands...lol.

That's assuming the OP would know about it which he may well not.

exactly

[tijnebijn]

I say it again if the wife is wrong or not it's non of the business of her dad,she i a grown adult woman.

There are no excuses for any violence for whatever reason,only if somebody is attacking yourself or close realtives or friends right in your face.Ignorence hurts much more then talking things out when people are wrong,they come up with sorry and excuses.maybe they both are wrong in something ,the real reason could be a minor thing.But like Bangkokmadness said no matter what there children around and they are the OP's.

Enough reason to ignore the bastard for whatever reason,whatever the culture it is no excuse for me.

Ignore everybody and take your lovedones out and do something relaxed and show you are the man who they can rely on and slowly let the spouse do her talking.Violence in the game is not even worth talking for an explanation ,the wife should be enough to work things out.

[Lucifer]

Your father-in -law knows his daughter better than you. He might know there was more than just innocent drinks going on.

Like someone else said, he was batting on your behalf.(pardon the pun.)

[Templer]

First of all thanks for your input,

I have just spoken to my wife, and now she has calmed down,

She has explained to me what had happened before she went to the Bar

She had an argument with one of her older sisters, the sister wanted to borrow some more money from her, and my wife said no, because she had already borrowed 13,000 baht and had no way of paying it back,

My wife then went over to the bar, to get out of the way for a while,

she has told me that she was wrong to do this, Father sent a message to her to return home, but she said she would not.

In the mean time a bit of stirring had been going on, from the sister, (Father's favorite) telling her father that my wife was up to no good.

Before my wife left the family home to find a hotel, her sister said that she would not pay the money back, that she owed, To be honest I have waved goodbye to the money any way,

I have never seen father act this way in the past, it was not down to him being drunk, because he does not drink for health reasons,

I did have a lot of respect for him, but now that has been lost,

Unfortunatly I was not there, so I do not know the whole story,

As someone has aready said there are three sides to the story.

My wife is not going back to the family house until I arrive, then I will see what the situation is, and go from there,

I do not want my wife to lose contact with her family, but at this moment in time, this is what my wife wants.

May be things will calm down before I arrive.

My son is OK but has told me grandad is no good, he is only 3 years old,

I would add that this all happened in the day time, in a resurant bar, My son would not have been there if it had been just a barand at night.

I can not accept the way my father in law has acted, but I can understand his thinking,

I have now seen another side to her family which I do not like, I will has to wait and see what happens in the future

Thanks again for your input

Templer

[sceadugenga]

First of all thanks for your input,

I have just spoken to my wife, and now she has calmed down,

She has explained to me what had happened before she went to the Bar

She had an argument with one of her older sisters, the sister wanted to borrow some more money from her, and my wife said no, because she had already borrowed 13,000 baht and had no way of paying it back,

My wife then went over to the bar, to get out of the way for a while,

she has told me that she was wrong to do this, Father sent a message to her to return home, but she said she would not.

In the mean time a bit of stirring had been going on, from the sister, (Father's favorite) telling her father that my wife was up to no good.

Before my wife left the family home to find a hotel, her sister said that she would not pay the money back, that she owed, To be honest I have waved goodbye to the money any way,

I have never seen father act this way in the past, it was not down to him being drunk, because he does not drink for health reasons,

I did have a lot of respect for him, but now that has been lost,

Unfortunatly I was not there, so I do not know the whole story,

As someone has aready said there are three sides to the story.

My wife is not going back to the family house until I arrive, then I will see what the situation is, and go from there,

I do not want my wife to lose contact with her family, but at this moment in time, this is what my wife wants.

May be things will calm down before I arrive.

My son is OK but has told me grandad is no good, he is only 3 years old,

I would add that this all happened in the day time, in a resurant bar, My son would not have been there if it had been just a barand at night.

I can not accept the way my father in law has acted, but I can understand his thinking,

I have now seen another side to her family which I do not like, I will has to wait and see what happens in the future

Thanks again for your input

Templer

It's remarkable how quickly the "perfect relationship" goes down the tubes isn't it? From here on your damned if you do and damned if you don't. My advice is let the wife sort it out.

Then take over ALL the family finances, just give her enough money a day to keep YOUR family. It's the only way I can think of of letting everybody involved know that your not happy.

Next time you go away and she wants to visit, say you don't want her to. If she insists consider your other options. Do you want this crap for the rest of your life?

[Pink Mist]

ok the OP has now found out the story, the post is closed