Who Has Bought or Sold Their Own Property In The Last Few Months?

[nick2k]

With regard to the above quote from trajan. There is no flaw as I did not go into the reasons for the illegality of owning land in a company name. You are right, but in the instance I am referring to, predominantely it is universally and well known that the Thais do NOT hold the majority of shares on a bone fide basis. It is nearly always the case that the funds came from the foreign purchaser (of course) to buy the property and makes the transaction illegal when investigated.

Come on, this is so well known and the method used and which we are discussing that it hardly needs me to spell it out when talking about this exact set of circumstances when I am describing a typical house (and land) purchase by a foreigner through a company scheme. The scheme is set up for that purpose only and not to run a multi million pound business or anything like it!!!!!!!

So, quite obviously an illegal action in those circumstances and known to be so. Hence my view and conclusions apply exactly as before. Caveat Emptor

Sorry, but there is a flaw in your premise. You point out and fixate only on corporate structures where Thai shareholders simply hold shares as nominees on behalf of foreign shareholders in order to transform such companies into "Thai" companies to allow such companies to engage in foreign restricted business activities (or to hold land). This is clearly illegal and has always been illegal. (The current laws and the various proposed amendments to the laws do not change the fact that this circumstance is illegal). There is no need to debate this as this has been discussed ad nauseum.

HOWEVER, there are many many instances where the corporate structures have been legally arranged (even in a run-of-the-mill house and land purchase) so that the companies are "Thai" under current law. The current military-installed government is proposing to CHANGE the law (the Foriegn Business Act and inevitably the Land Act) to make these arrangements illegal going forward AND to make such changes in the law retroactively applicable to existing legally established companies. If these proposals to change the law and to make such changes retroactively applicable are in fact implemented, then assets (business assets under the FBA and land assets under the LA) will effectively be unjustly confiscated in some form. That is where your previous comments are flawed.//

in other words, you are better off putting your money into something back home. putting your money into something over here is NOT an investment. you are giving it away.

in a country that changes hands by way of coup, you are only guaranteed the ownership of your property until the "next" ruler takes power.

and this same principle applies to all foreign western companies like ibm, seagate, and a whole host of other corporations building factories overseas. your investment is only solid until the next regime takes power. at any given moment, all the billions you have invested overseas could disappear - in a blink of an eye. I wonder how you are going to explain that to your share holders when and not if it happens.

[nikster]

Sorry to interrupt, but we are SO off topic now.

Has anyone "Bought or Sold Their Own Property In The Last Few Months?" is the title of the thread.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. We are discussing a very select group of Ferangs who can contribute here, those that have the correct 49% stake in an apartment block, can actually own the property freehold.

Of all the replies I think Quicksilva's (whose posts I watch with deep interest and respect) most effectively summed it up, via the mortgage route. You (Ferangs) do not own your own property, but of course your Thai partners can. Even quicksilva's solution acknowledges this.

There's about 5 zillion threads on Thaivisa discussing how and how not to own property in Thailand legally. Please leave this out of this thread, ok?

[Tornado]

There is a real question under Thai law as to when a Company is Thai, and when a Company is not Thai.

Depending on the intended function of the Company, various levels of shareholding are required to meet the required level of Thainess.

For some purposes a company that has 51% of its shares owned by Thai individuals is consider to be a Thai company.

For other purposes (e.g., land ownership) a company that has less than 40% of its shares owned by non-Thais is (or sadly, perhaps was) considered Thai.

Where a government has for many years knowingly accepted a level of shareholders to meet the "Thainess" test, and then acts to change this level without protecting those who relied on standards established by that government, this is confiscation.

I agree with you Tim, they left the door open for all of us and now the country has sucked us all in, they've closed it and now we have to restructure our lives.

To me, it is nothing but orchestrated theft from the major powers in government to the two bit lawyers that told us, this is the way you buy.

A lot of the posts are " I told you so", but if your a foreigner coming to a country that you do not know all of the laws, you should be able to trust your lawyer and all of the government staff to set you in the right direction. That loophole was left open and everyone in government also knew that. It was not done under the table or on the sly, it was told to us by the ones who should know. It was meant to help foreigners invest in this country and now they have all of our money, they chamged the goal posts. Its nobodys fault, other than the Thai government and the lawyers for not stating that this door will only be left open until we decide otherwise and steal your property.

Foreigners have been conned out of millions and millions of $ and I feel for all of them.

Now many of us are in a situation that looks dire and the only way to (currently) try to get some of our investment back, is to sell cheaper, find a Thai person you can trust with your life (not easy) or wait it out and see what the election brings.

I get sick of the crowd that say, I told you so, as we are talking about peoples lives here and a bit of compassion is in order.

I have two major land holdings left to sell and then I will take my money somewhere else.

[popshirt]

Has anyone "Bought or Sold Their Own Property In The Last Few Months?"

[jumnien]

Bought .5 rai on beach in Prachuab last week. Putting 84 sq. meter condo on Ratchadamri Soi Mahadlek luang 1 on market in the next couple weeks. With an increase in value of 20% in dollar terms over the past year it is time to sell and spend the cash.

[tornado40]

My Brother has just had his town house finished in Ban Rak Samui - and has transferred the money. During this month he is to fly out and transfer the house to his company

[asiaworld]

Sorry to interrupt, but we are SO off topic now.

Has anyone "Bought or Sold Their Own Property In The Last Few Months?" is the title of the thread.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. We are discussing a very select group of Ferangs who can contribute here, those that have the correct 49% stake in an apartment block, can actually own the property freehold.

Of all the replies I think Quicksilva's (whose posts I watch with deep interest and respect) most effectively summed it up, via the mortgage route. You (Ferangs) do not own your own property, but of course your Thai partners can. Even quicksilva's solution acknowledges this.

To answer the point yes I am buying. Also some 1,000 Bangkok apartments are nearing completion across multiple projects in the CBD by year-end. All have been sold (otherwise they could not have been built).

When we talk of property ownership (as in the west etc) we can only discuss the 49% fraction of an apartment building. Everything else is either owned by your partner, (not you, why are you contributing, do you believe you own it?), or is illegal.

Funny enough i have to agree with pkrv , well almost 100% ! ! What i may say to calm flamers down, is Not illegal! > it's Your money , so u can do whatever you like with it ,feed it to pigs/burn,give to charities ! But it WILL NOT in any way give you entitlement to landed properties in this country !! Remember it, & don't worry,whether it changes value, cause it is Not effectively Yours anymore . If your wife sells,& passes you back cash , be grateful !

Otherwise don't give headaches ! I am Not agent, but serial property investor, for my own self, i own unit in Thailand( it's condo unit,AND MY NAME IS on TABIEN BAN in the Land registry ! ) & look to buy more. I feel that prices went slightly up in past couple of years. Not spectacularly, but ok. I'd buy for rental returns, flip for profit unfortunately would not be viable here . Here's my 2cent/pence.. btw. if location's good it sells Well. Take new condo in Ratchprarop, almost completely sold off! with construction barely started !

[pkrv]

Sorry to interrupt, but we are SO off topic now.

Has anyone "Bought or Sold Their Own Property In The Last Few Months?" is the title of the thread.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. We are discussing a very select group of Ferangs who can contribute here, those that have the correct 49% stake in an apartment block, can actually own the property freehold.

Of all the replies I think Quicksilva's (whose posts I watch with deep interest and respect) most effectively summed it up, via the mortgage route. You (Ferangs) do not own your own property, but of course your Thai partners can. Even quicksilva's solution acknowledges this.

To answer the point yes I am buying. Also some 1,000 Bangkok apartments are nearing completion across multiple projects in the CBD by year-end. All have been sold (otherwise they could not have been built).

When we talk of property ownership (as in the west etc) we can only discuss the 49% fraction of an apartment building. Everything else is either owned by your partner, (not you, why are you contributing, do you believe you own it?), or is illegal.

Funny enough i have to agree with pkrv , well almost 100% ! ! What i may say to calm flamers down, is Not illegal! > it's Your money , so u can do whatever you like with it ,feed it to pigs/burn,give to charities ! But it WILL NOT in any way give you entitlement to landed properties in this country !! Remember it, & don't worry,whether it changes value, cause it is Not effectively Yours anymore . If your wife sells,& passes you back cash , be grateful !

Otherwise don't give headaches ! I am Not agent, but serial property investor, for my own self, i own unit in Thailand( it's condo unit,AND MY NAME IS on TABIEN BAN in the Land registry ! ) & look to buy more. I feel that prices went slightly up in past couple of years. Not spectacularly, but ok. I'd buy for rental returns, flip for profit unfortunately would not be viable here . Here's my 2cent/pence.. btw. if location's good it sells Well. Take new condo in Ratchprarop, almost completely sold off! with construction barely started !

Humbled - PKRV

Edited May 2, 2007 by pkrv

[Spacer]

Bought .5 rai on beach in Prachuab last week. Putting 84 sq. meter condo on Ratchadamri Soi Mahadlek luang 1 on market in the next couple weeks. With an increase in value of 20% in dollar terms over the past year it is time to sell and spend the cash.

I am looking for property in Prachuap Khiri Khan, vicinity of Bangsapahn. Can you tell me what .5 rai on the beach is going for now. Have the prices been stable or are they rising / falling now?

[jumnien]

My best guess is that .5 rai on the beach in the Bang Saphan area would be about 2-5 million. Prices have risen quite a bit over the last 3 years and are rising less quickly now. That said, there is not a lot of desirable land for sale. Just drive around and ask people in the area you are interested in. Timing is everything. You might look at Bang Burd or Ban Krud.

[lannarebirth]

My girlfriends sister bought 1 rai,1 ngan on the beach in Chumphon yesterday for 5 million. My friend sold 20 rai last week or Sor Tor Kor (no paper but registered) land near Chiang Mai for 4 million. All participants Thai.

[Sophon]

Bought a condo at Urbana Langsuan ,238sq ft, 30 year Lease hold,34th floor, 16.5 mil. Bought it about 16 months ago. Did some work in it (about 1.5 mil) and sold it 6 months ago for 21.5 mil.

???

238 sq.ft. = 22 sq.m.

The prices quoted seems just a little expensive for a 22 sq.m. condo. Should that have been 238 sq.m. or is there a digit missing?

Sophon

[Sir Burr]

I haven't bought, or, sold a property, but would still like to contribute.

Here in Phuket, you can firstly divide the market in two; new developements and second hand house.

There are many, many developements going on at all price levels. Most people looking to buy go this route.

The second hand market can also be divided into two. Properties that are on an estate or not. Those properties on successful estates like Anuphas Golfville, or, Land and House are usually quite sort after and there is a steady turnover.

The situation with privately built houses is pretty dire at the moment. There are too many "palaces" built on small bits of land, or, land that is in a bad location. The underlying value of a property is in the land, not the house, so, many of these "palaces" have been on the market for years.

At the moment, if you want to buy 50 rai, no problem. If you want to buy a 1/4 of a rai, no problem. But, it is now getting difficult to find 1 to 2 rai plots. The houses on large plots of over a rai are still selling well if the price is realistic.

[alfa156]

so what is the conclusion ?? is the prices going up, down or just stagnated ?? is now a good time to buy a condo as any or should a person wait and see if the prices go down first ??

ole .dk

[chownah]

so what is the conclusion ?? is the prices going up, down or just stagnated ?? is now a good time to buy a condo as any or should a person wait and see if the prices go down first ??

ole .dk

I don't think you will ever find a conclusion to this type of discussion. The price of some properties in some areas is going up and this is always true except in the most dire of circumstances. The price of some properties in some areas is going down and this is almost always true except in the most over exuberant economic expansions. The prices of some properties is stagnant too.

The only way to make any kind of maningful conclusion is to have a comprehensive market survey done for a particular market (e.g. condos in Nong Khai central district in high rise buildings) and the data made available along with various interpretations....but I don't think you will find this for the Thai property market.

Also, historically and over the long haul property values tend to go up because the human population is rising faster than new land is being made....but this historic trend is often obscured by dips and dives in prices which can foil short term (short term = one lifetime) investment strategies.

Chownah

[cmsally]

I am in the process of buying a condo. Having looked around I don't think the prices are going to go down too much if they do at all.

I have been using Thai friends and bank properties as something of an indicator and there is not much available in the bank sector. Round the corner from where I am buying something the same size started off at 1.3m in an assets auction and was bid up to 2.8m. Nearby Thai friends bought a condo at 4.5 although bigger than what I am buying.

Starting prices for new developments seem to be going up and building costs won't be coming down.

I am buying into a new development almost finished, for slightly over the price of the one auctioned off. It is 300m pleasant walk to BTS so if I want to rent out in future it could be a good rental prospect.

I think a lot depends on the area you are looking in, there are a few bargains to be had. In my view the only dip in cost is going to come from exchange rates. What and when anything happens there is anybody's guess.

[bisop]

We sold house in March when it was half finished. We will sell another one in October. Our freinds who are developers are achievig sales so long as the price is realistic..

[linnping]

I brought the condo last month.

_____________________

Home Equity Loans

[jumnien]

The wife and I got out money last week for our leasehold on Rajadamri. I'm having a bit of "sellers remorse" and am thinking it might have been better to keep it and rent it out - the area is really improving! Now, what to do with the money?

[mellow1]

Does anyone know of a good real estate agency,that do business in Korat or Surin areas? Reputable Co.

[mellow1]

Forgot to put Buriram in previous post,for real estate agents info.

[joeuk1]

Bought two condos in Thailand in April , bought land in Thailand June , bought condo in Uk complete sept ,

Worse value of the whole lot 70 sq metre condo 25 mins from london 305k sterling Yukkkk.

Jb

I am never a seller of land or property i learnt my lesson many moons ago .

[rak sa_ngop]

Worse value of the whole lot 70 sq metre condo 25 mins from london 305k sterling Yukkkk.

70 sq metres for 20 mil baht, no joeuk?

[donx]

My wife bought 2.6 rai of beachfront property in Tha Sala in Nakhon Si Thammarat province last month for just under 2 million baht.

[siddv]

There you go. Everybody buys buys buys with Thai wife or otherwise. Nobody is selling and obtaining any return on thier money. That should tell you soemthing. Buy in Thaialnd if you want to live in the house, but forget about real estate as an investment, its a dead end. Keep your working money out of the country and someplace it works for you.

[donx]

There you go. Everybody buys buys buys with Thai wife or otherwise. Nobody is selling and obtaining any return on thier money. That should tell you soemthing. Buy in Thaialnd if you want to live in the house, but forget about real estate as an investment, its a dead end. Keep your working money out of the country and someplace it works for you.

If I didn't have a Thai wife, I wouldn't be investing in any land in Thailand. If I was single and retired, I probably would buy myself a condo in Bangkok to live. Nonetheless, you are wrong about making money on selling property. My wife sold 17 rai of rubber tree land last year for 50,000 baht/rai that she paid 35,000 baht/rai just one year earlier. And since the money she used came from the US at an exchange rate of 42 baht/US$, we made a profit on the exchange rate as well. She used this money for the 2.6 rai in Tha Sala as well as money I transferred in for the balance of what we needed (about another 1.2 million baht). True, we expect to use the seaside land for a retirement residence, but I heard from the seller before we bought the property that he wished we would walk away from our previously signed agreement to purchase the property because he had someone willing to pay 2.6 million baht for the land.

As I said upfront, I would never be doing any of this type of land investment if I wasn't married to a Thai. Nevertheless, I am sure there are other individuals here that are able to make some good returns on their real estate investments here in Thailand.

[joeuk1]

Things are a little bit different about buying land and property in Thailand when you have children i spend a bit of money in Thailand and will do in future , my children in the uk own there own propertys paid for by me and i want to have investments in Thailand for my kids there as well . Land -Property in Thailand will go up like everywhere else and i put a few safe guards in place for wife and kids in case i were dead tomorrow .

JB

Ps money in the bank is no good to me i like it invested .

[joeuk1]

Worse value of the whole lot 70 sq metre condo 25 mins from london 305k sterling Yukkkk.

70 sq metres for 20 mil baht, no joeuk?

If you saw the prices property was selling for in the uk it would blow your mind , in 1994 i bought a 3 bedroom semi for my mother to live in paid 135k and thought it was overpriced and exspensive . This house in 2006 was valued at 360-380 grand .The average price of houses in london went up by 43k in the last year ( reported on eveing standard today ) the average price for property in london now is 313k and i can tell you there is some very grim property in london beleive me .

Crazy i know but thats the facts , anyone that gets off the property ladder in uk and goes to Thailand , WILL have a problem should they want to return unless they make plenty of money while living there .

JB

BACK TO TOPIC

[klikster]

There is so much talk about the down turn in the market and I have seen it first hand myself.

I am interested to know who has actually sold a property in the last few months. I dont want to hear from the agents as that is not the point of the thread. Ive been in real estate here for a long time and I KNOW, things are more than slow in Phuket.

Interested to hear from the sellers please. Property type, location and price.

Sold one to Thai buyer, closed this week. Might be a one off though. PM for more.

[klikster]

My best guess is that .5 rai on the beach in the Bang Saphan area would be about 2-5 million. Prices have risen quite a bit over the last 3 years and are rising less quickly now. That said, there is not a lot of desirable land for sale. Just drive around and ask people in the area you are interested in. Timing is everything. You might look at Bang Burd or Ban Krud.

You are absolutely right about Bangsaphan. Near Ban Chai Talay, the water is very dirty. The port for the steel mill is a major contributor and will probably get worse.

I sold a small house on 110 wah "on the beach" last week .. on Samran. In Ban Krut, be prepared to pay 4 mil per rai and finding only 1 rai is VERY difficult. Add to that .. most of the land has a paved road between land and beach. Better to look north of the temple .. or even Thapsakae.

Be careful of Bangsaphan Noi and Bang Burd. Do you homework on the proposed steel smelter.

Just drive around and ask people in the area you are interested in.

I recommend that you get a local Thai to do that .. else the price escalates.