Property Arragement For Marriage

[all4real]

I would like to ask experts opinion on this situation.

I am a non-Thai planning to marry to my Thai fiancee. However, we are not able to register the marriage in Thailand until end of the year.

Meanwhile, we would like to purchase a house from housing project with house and land together before the marriage registration under her name. Would like to know could a right of habitation be done after the marriage registration? Would the property acquired before the registration of marriage be considered not part of communal property instead her personal property instead?

What would the best possible solution for this situation? Is right of habitation or usufruct the correct route?

[timonase]

Hello,

i am just in the process of buying a house, not being married myself. We use sunbelt asia, to have an usufruct registered on the chanote(landpaper). There is no disandvantage of being not married, at least thats how i understand the lawyers from sunbelt, as if married you would have to sign that the property is not part of the marriage deal, anyways. If you get married anytime after you bought the property, your wife only has to goe change the chanote and the land office.

I reccomend you to see a good law firm about the usufruct process anyways.

best regards

Timo

[astral]

Firstly I wonder why you have to wait so long to get married?

You can be married anywhere and it is valid in Thailand.

No need for special registration.

You can move in anytime after the purchase

Usufruct is the safe way to go and Sunbelt will be able to advise you for a very reasonable fee

It assure your right to live there, even if you fall out with your wife at some later date,

or if she pre-deceases you.

[Rainmaker]

Hello,

i am just in the process of buying a house, not being married myself. We use sunbelt asia, to have an usufruct registered on the chanote(landpaper). There is no disandvantage of being not married, at least thats how i understand the lawyers from sunbelt, as if married you would have to sign that the property is not part of the marriage deal, anyways. If you get married anytime after you bought the property, your wife only has to goe change the chanote and the land office.

I reccomend you to see a good law firm about the usufruct process anyways.

best regards

Timo

Sorry dumb question, whata a usufruct?

[timonase]

well,

as i am german and dont know how to explain in in english properly, i looked it up for you.

"The right to use and enjoy the profits and advantages of something belonging to another as long as the property is not damaged or altered in any way."

The advantage of this is that the usufruct is valid for a life time, not like a lease agreement ( 30 years)

hope that helps.

regards

Timo

[Rainmaker]

well,

as i am german and dont know how to explain in in english properly, i looked it up for you.

"The right to use and enjoy the profits and advantages of something belonging to another as long as the property is not damaged or altered in any way."

The advantage of this is that the usufruct is valid for a life time, not like a lease agreement ( 30 years)

hope that helps.

regards

Timo

Thanks Timo, learnt somethig new today, regards

[thaigene2]

I am a non-Thai planning to marry to my Thai fiancee.

....we would like to purchase a house from housing project with house and land together before the marriage registration under her name. Would like to know could a right of habitation be done after the marriage registration? Would the property acquired before the registration of marriage be considered not part of communal property instead her personal property instead?

This is quite interesting, since you would not be required to sign the Land Office document claiming that she bought it 'with her own money'..since she is not your spouse

Since it is purchased before the marriage, does anyone know if this would then become part of the communal property AFTER they get married? My understanding is the foreigner has no communal rights if the property is purchased AFTER the marriage (due to the signing off requirement).

[solo siam]

The only difference between before and after marriage is that before the marriage she would not have to sign to say she bought it with her own money, there are no communal rights in relation to land ownership, although it is my understanding that its worth still counts when dividing up after the divorce.

[all4real]

So far I only found this doc that defines seperate property "sin suan tua" from community property "sin somros".

http://www.tillekeandgibbins.com/publicati...usband_wife.pdf

Anyone has experience in registering a right of habitation after marriage registration, with property acquired before marriage registration? How much is the taxes and fees to register right of habitation compare to usufruct?

My understanding is that even the foreigner spouse signs off the doc from Land Department claiming that she buys the property "with her own money", however in the unfortunate event of divorce, the foreigner spouse still entitled to half worth of property since it's community property acquired during the marriage. Am I wrong?

Thanks.

[timonase]

Hello,

as mentioned before, i am in the process of buying property, not married myself. I understand that after you do get married everything is back to normal, meaning the property will be shared in case of a divorce.

The only advantage, if you can call it so, is that the foreigner does not have to sign, that he waives any rights to the property. I am unsure whether he has to sign this paper if the couple gets married afterwards.

But then, the usufruct come into play after the divorce anyways, meaning that the foreigner can use or rent out the property for as long as he lives.

regards

#Timo

[wolfmanjack]

So far I only found this doc that defines seperate property "sin suan tua" from community property "sin somros".

http://www.tillekeandgibbins.com/publicati...usband_wife.pdf

Anyone has experience in registering a right of habitation after marriage registration, with property acquired before marriage registration? How much is the taxes and fees to register right of habitation compare to usufruct?

My understanding is that even the foreigner spouse signs off the doc from Land Department claiming that she buys the property "with her own money", however in the unfortunate event of divorce, the foreigner spouse still entitled to half worth of property since it's community property acquired during the marriage. Am I wrong?

Thanks.

According to the civil codes book that I have the property acquired before marriage remains the sole property after marriage. It does not become communal property. Also any property bought with the proceeds of the sale of that property remains the sole property of the spouse originally owning the property. Not sure if that is clear enough so i will use an example. Your wife owns property before the marriage. After the marriage the property belongs to her. Not to both of you. She decides to sell that property and buy another for the same price she sold the old property for. Since ALL of the funds to pay for the new property came from the property owned by her before the marriage the new property belongs to her and is not community property.

[nick2k]

I would like to ask experts opinion on this situation.

I am a non-Thai planning to marry to my Thai fiancee. However, we are not able to register the marriage in Thailand until end of the year.

Meanwhile, we would like to purchase a house from housing project with house and land together before the marriage registration under her name. Would like to know could a right of habitation be done after the marriage registration? Would the property acquired before the registration of marriage be considered not part of communal property instead her personal property instead?

What would the best possible solution for this situation? Is right of habitation or usufruct the correct route?

if you buy the house under "her" name, it is "her" house. the day after you buy "her" house, she could tell you to take a hike, and sell the house and keep the cash.

don't kid yourself. the laws here won't side with you because you are not a citizen.

I know this to be the truth because it just happened to someone I know.

$150k dollars out the door just like that. his life savings. to someone he was married to for only 2 months.

oh. so you think you will still be able to rent the property out if the marriage doesn't work out? this person I know stayed at the place up until his visa ran out on him. and then he had to leave the country. the thai authorities would not renew his visa. and you want to know your rights?

you don't have any here.

[nick2k]

I would like to ask experts opinion on this situation.

I am a non-Thai planning to marry to my Thai fiancee. However, we are not able to register the marriage in Thailand until end of the year.

Meanwhile, we would like to purchase a house from housing project with house and land together before the marriage registration under her name. Would like to know could a right of habitation be done after the marriage registration? Would the property acquired before the registration of marriage be considered not part of communal property instead her personal property instead?

What would the best possible solution for this situation? Is right of habitation or usufruct the correct route?

my suggestion to you...

RENT.

if you are still married in 5 years, then the risk is good that she will stay with you, and then, I would consider buying a house. especially if you have kids by then.

[sinam]

My suggestion is to get a mortgage on the house and get yourself a decent retirement condo that you can rent out if need be. Its the best you can do here and protects you from that worst case scenario that people love to talk about (one of their "mates" being taken to the cleaners by a lovely lass...) It may also open up more legal protection for you if things end in divorce.

Si Nam

[nick2k]

My suggestion is to get a mortgage on the house and get yourself a decent retirement condo that you can rent out if need be. Its the best you can do here and protects you from that worst case scenario that people love to talk about (one of their "mates" being taken to the cleaners by a lovely lass...) It may also open up more legal protection for you if things end in divorce.

Si Nam

if you think my last story was a worst case scenario, consider the following story...

this thai girl falls in love with this handsome farang. the handsome farang told the thai girl that his philosophy was not to provide any support to anyone other than for his own family. which meant that he would not give any money to her poor parents if they got married. being truly in love with her new husband to be, she agreed to this since she truly loved him.

so, at her next meeting with her parents, she told her parents what he said.

shortly after the marriage, the handsome farang bought a house in her wife's name, the parents of the thai girl then methodically killed her so that they could keep the house. since the house was in her name, they were legally in line to receive it after her death.

hey. have you heard the stories about thai housewifes who like to brandish long watermelon knives when they get into arguments with their husbands? ..shades of bobbit.

sinam, that previous story I told you is not a worst case scenario. ..it happens all the time.

[old wanderer]

Hello,

i am just in the process of buying a house, not being married myself. We use sunbelt asia, to have an usufruct registered on the chanote(landpaper). There is no disandvantage of being not married, at least thats how i understand the lawyers from sunbelt, as if married you would have to sign that the property is not part of the marriage deal, anyways. If you get married anytime after you bought the property, your wife only has to goe change the chanote and the land office.

I reccomend you to see a good law firm about the usufruct process anyways.

best regards

Timo

Timo is right on.....go to SunBelt, get the usufruct, don't dink around with free advise on the forum....get some profesional help or don't come crying if you ignore it.

I have 5 usufruct for 5 different pieces of property.....and would not consider any other way. In my case I have no worries about the wife (over 10 years married) if is the family that will show no mercy for the falang.

[sinam]

My suggestion is to get a mortgage on the house and get yourself a decent retirement condo that you can rent out if need be. Its the best you can do here and protects you from that worst case scenario that people love to talk about (one of their "mates" being taken to the cleaners by a lovely lass...) It may also open up more legal protection for you if things end in divorce.

Si Nam

if you think my last story was a worst case scenario, consider the following story...

this thai girl falls in love with this handsome farang. the handsome farang told the thai girl that his philosophy was not to provide any support to anyone other than for his own family. which meant that he would not give any money to her poor parents if they got married. being truly in love with her new husband to be, she agreed to this since she truly loved him.

so, at her next meeting with her parents, she told her parents what he said.

shortly after the marriage, the handsome farang bought a house in her wife's name, the parents of the thai girl then methodically killed her so that they could keep the house. since the house was in her name, they were legally in line to receive it after her death.

hey. have you heard the stories about thai housewifes who like to brandish long watermelon knives when they get into arguments with their husbands? ..shades of bobbit.

sinam, that previous story I told you is not a worst case scenario. ..it happens all the time.

Nick i think you better read up on your Thai law so you can make a more accurate description of inheritance with regards to statutory heirs or maybe you better go ask your mates! Been here 8 years and although my mates and I enjoy the banter and spreading the stories and our ignorance around, the reality is usually much less exciting. Of course I don't hang around too many people with missing frontal lobes and never dated women with watermelon knife fetishes... Getting back to the context of the thread my suggestion was not to buy a house outright but to get a mortgage and buy your self a condo. Its easy, legal, no trying to bend the rules or trying to interpret rules made for thais, no worries afterward and all parties are happy.

Si Nam

[sinam]

Hello,

i am just in the process of buying a house, not being married myself. We use sunbelt asia, to have an usufruct registered on the chanote(landpaper). There is no disandvantage of being not married, at least thats how i understand the lawyers from sunbelt, as if married you would have to sign that the property is not part of the marriage deal, anyways. If you get married anytime after you bought the property, your wife only has to goe change the chanote and the land office.

I reccomend you to see a good law firm about the usufruct process anyways.

best regards

Timo

Timo is right on.....go to SunBelt, get the usufruct, don't dink around with free advise on the forum....get some profesional help or don't come crying if you ignore it.

I have 5 usufruct for 5 different pieces of property.....and would not consider any other way. In my case I have no worries about the wife (over 10 years married) if is the family that will show no mercy for the falang.

As for usufructs or lease more and more questions are being asked. If you do take the lawyer route you had better talk to more than one. Some will tell you these avenues may not hold up in court.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/Sale%20and%20Purchase.htm#Other

Si Nam

[timonase]

I have talked to 3 different law firms and all three prefered the usufruct. after all it seemed to be the best choice for me. No doubt questions are being asked about all sorts of foreign involment in property at the moment, but thats thailand at the moment and you either are willing to put trust in to the thai system, that it is not becoming even more hostile in the future or not invest in any way. I believe everybody has to make that choice for themselves.

as for the option under the current situation, the usufruct is believed to be the safest( but then again no guarantees for the future)

regards

Timo

[lannarebirth]

I have talked to 3 different law firms and all three prefered the usufruct. after all it seemed to be the best choice for me. No doubt questions are being asked about all sorts of foreign involment in property at the moment, but thats thailand at the moment and you either are willing to put trust in to the thai system, that it is not becoming even more hostile in the future or not invest in any way. I believe everybody has to make that choice for themselves.

as for the option under the current situation, the usufruct is believed to be the safest( but then again no guarantees for the future)

regards

Timo

An additional advantage of a lifetime usufruct, is that the usufruct holder can then lease the property to a third party (at any time prior to their death) if they wish, for up to 30 more years. Even if that term exceeds the usuftuct holders lifetime. Verify that with Sunbelt, but I believe they have mentioned in this forum that it is so.