Immigration Bureau Clarifies 90-day Rule Change

[baabaabobo]

Thai Immigration Clarifies 90-day Rule Change

PHUKET: -- Following a spate of complaints from confused foreigners entering Thailand on “visa exemptions”, Pol Capt Krissarat Nuesen of the Phuket Provincial Immigration Office has made a statement to clarify the 90-day rule and how it was changed, effective April 1.

Visa exemptions, commonly referred to as “visas on arrival”, allow tourists from certain countries who arrive at the border without a visa to have permits-to-stay, typically for a period of 30 days, issued by Immigration officials.

“People who enter Thailand on a ‘visa exemption’ are permitted to stay only 90 days in a six-month period,” he said, adding that the six months is calculated as a 180-day period starting from the first day that the foreigner enters Thailand on a visa exemption.

“From October 1, 2006 to March 31, 2007, we counted all the days from the foreigner’s first day regardless whether the foreigner was actually in Thailand or not.

“Also, foreigners were not permitted to stay in Thailand after their 180-day period had expired [counted from the foreigner’s first day], regardless whether the foreigner had stayed a full 90 days in Thailand or not,” Capt Krissarat said.

“However, the rule has been changed. From April 1, we now count only the days the foreigner has stayed in Thailand – and foreigners are now allowed to stay past the 180-day period,” he said.

The number of consecutive visa exemptions allowed is no longer limited to three, he added.

As for foreigners who complain about discrepancies in the counting of days, K. Krissarat reminded those who choose to enter on multiple visa exemptions that it is up to the discretion of the Immigration officer on duty how many days to grant the new arrival, provided it is 30 days or fewer.

Capt Krissarat stressed that the 90-day rule does not affect people who have been issued a visa from the Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate.

“If you want to stay longer, then apply for a visa from a Royal Thai Embassy outside Thailand. That way the rule will not apply to you,” he said.

Regarding parents bringing children into Thailand to attend school, Capt Krissarat said, “Foreign parents whose children will study in Thailand can apply for non-immigrant ED visas for their children at any Royal Thai Embassy outside Thailand.

“The parents can apply for non-immigrant O visas for themselves so they can enter the country and care for their children here, and then they can apply for permits to stay at the Immigration office after entering the country.

“Alternatively, if the parents are not going to be staying in the country long, they can get a tourist visa from an embassy or enter on a visa exemption,” he said.

“Many international schools in Thailand help parents prepare applications for permits to stay,” Capt Krissarat said, adding that children under 14 years old are not fined for overstay.

-- Phuket Gazette 2007-04-28

[ovenman]

“From October 1, 2006 to March 31, 2007, we counted all the days from the foreigner’s first day regardless whether the foreigner was actually in Thailand or not.

“Also, foreigners were not permitted to stay in Thailand after their 180-day period had expired [counted from the foreigner’s first day], regardless whether the foreigner had stayed a full 90 days in Thailand or not,” Capt Krissarat said.

“However, the rule has been changed. From April 1, we now count only the days the foreigner has stayed in Thailand – and foreigners are now allowed to stay past the 180-day period,” he said.

I don't understand these three paragraphs at all. Would somebody be so kind as to clarify this clarification for me?

[tode66]

Hi,

I have one question:

How many tourist visas (2months and 1month extension) I can get in a row from Malaysia or Laos? Is it limited?

Thanks in advance!

[zeusbheld]

“From October 1, 2006 to March 31, 2007, we counted all the days from the foreigner’s first day regardless whether the foreigner was actually in Thailand or not.

“Also, foreigners were not permitted to stay in Thailand after their 180-day period had expired [counted from the foreigner’s first day], regardless whether the foreigner had stayed a full 90 days in Thailand or not,” Capt Krissarat said.

“However, the rule has been changed. From April 1, we now count only the days the foreigner has stayed in Thailand – and foreigners are now allowed to stay past the 180-day period,” he said.

I don't understand these three paragraphs at all. Would somebody be so kind as to clarify this clarification for me?

this is just my read, and in NO way official. it seems to be saying:

within a 180 day period, you may be granted 90 days on 30 day stamps. it is still at the discretion of the officer, but you can come and go as you please, the total won't exceed 90 days granted. he also explicitly says that if you haven't used up your 90 days, the immo officer CAN grant you a full 30 days even if it takes you beyond 180.

in other words, you've been in thailand 60 days on stamps, you show up at immo, day 179. the immo officer likes your face, can give you 30 days. BUT as always, and as it was before the rule change, it's up to the discretion of the officer.

hopefully i haven't confused things further, but that's my take.

[streetlite]

I am trying to logically understand these same paragraphs but cannot. When I think I understand what is being written the next sentence goes another way. Can you rewrite the same thing in a different order?

Thanks.

[ovenman]

hopefully i haven't confused things further, but that's my take.

Thanks, re-examining what the Captain said, I can buy into that interpretation. The wording from the article is very awkward though.

[bkkbaz]

Hi,

I have one question:

How many tourist visas (2months and 1month extension) I can get in a row from Malaysia or Laos? Is it limited?

Thanks in advance!

Good question, and one I've never seen properly answered.

I came to Thailand on a 4-entry tourist visa, extended the final entry to 90 days, then got myself a 1-entry tourist visa from Laos when it expired, and extended that too. Never had a problem (I'm on a non-imm B now).

I have met people with stamps in their passports that effectively say "This person has had too many TOURIST VISAs, and might not get one next time", but never heard of anyone actually being denied.

I think that as long as you're paying the Thai Govt for a visa, they're happy to have you. It's the freebies they're trying to stamp out.

[rexall]

this is just my read, and in NO way official. it seems to be saying:

within a 180 day period, you may be granted 90 days on 30 day stamps. it is still at the discretion of the officer, but you can come and go as you please, the total won't exceed 90 days granted. he also explicitly says that if you haven't used up your 90 days, the immo officer CAN grant you a full 30 days even if it takes you beyond 180.

in other words, you've been in thailand 60 days on stamps, you show up at immo, day 179. the immo officer likes your face, can give you 30 days. BUT as always, and as it was before the rule change, it's up to the discretion of the officer.

hopefully i haven't confused things further, but that's my take.

Sat 28 Apr 07, 8:17 p.m.

Zeusbheld,

When this discussion began last year, I paid close attention and tried to understand it as best as I could. I "thought" that I finally got the gist of it. My interpretation back in October was exactly what you have just posted here. I have not heard much news since then. However, I have not been keeping up; I don't find visa discussions intrinsically very interesting unless there is real news. However, this explanation form Pol Capt Krissarat Nuesen, suggests that I was completely wrong back in October, and that lots of people may have been arbitrarily granted various lengths of stay, numbers of days and numbers of entries based upon gawd knows what!

Ah, sigh! TIT!

Aloha,

Rex

[Thai-Spy]

Not a very useful story as it only addresses the situation at Phuket. What is still lacking is a coherent national directive which will be equally applied at all points of entry.

[aussiestyle1983]

“From October 1, 2006 to March 31, 2007, we counted all the days from the foreigner’s first day regardless whether the foreigner was actually in Thailand or not.

“Also, foreigners were not permitted to stay in Thailand after their 180-day period had expired [counted from the foreigner’s first day], regardless whether the foreigner had stayed a full 90 days in Thailand or not,” Capt Krissarat said.

“However, the rule has been changed. From April 1, we now count only the days the foreigner has stayed in Thailand – and foreigners are now allowed to stay past the 180-day period,” he said.

I don't understand these three paragraphs at all. Would somebody be so kind as to clarify this clarification for me?

I agree.

It sounds like (in English) he was saying that after your first day of entry, you would not be allowed back in after 90 days even if you hadn't stayed for a consectutive 90 dyas, that doesn't make sense. Example, Enter October 1 and leave October 2, you only stayed for 2 days. After Dec 31 or the 90 day mark, you can not come back untill March 31 or the end of the 180 days cycle even though you only spent 2 days here. That is BS and does not make sense because that was not how it worked.

If these guys can't speak English they need to keep their gobs shut! Instead of making things clearer he has just talked a hole lot of rubbish that does not make sense and is not true. He claims we don't understand and complain, but after statements like this, what does he expect.......

"from April 1, we now count only the days the foreigner has stayed in Thailand"

<deleted>! It has always been like that.............

Edited April 28, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[torrenova]

More gobbledegook. Time for them to think before rushing out another set of "rules".

Why do people state that some consulates outside Thailand are stamping something like "one visa only" when people made applications for tourist visas ?

Why are entensions to 60 day tourist visas being counted as part of the 90 days in some instances ?

Why are 7 day extensions being counted ?

Why are extensions due to illness being counted ?

Why cannot you get a non immigrant visa in SE Asia ?

Why does Thailand "give" Cambodia $20 for each person who makes a visa run ? Why not let that person sign on at the immigration office for a similar fee ?

Why do people with multiple entry non immigrant visas have to leave the country every 90 days ?

Why not make some decent, sensible and comprehensible rules ?

[jeebusjones]

this is just my read, and in NO way official. it seems to be saying:

within a 180 day period, you may be granted 90 days on 30 day stamps. it is still at the discretion of the officer, but you can come and go as you please, the total won't exceed 90 days granted. he also explicitly says that if you haven't used up your 90 days, the immo officer CAN grant you a full 30 days even if it takes you beyond 180.

in other words, you've been in thailand 60 days on stamps, you show up at immo, day 179. the immo officer likes your face, can give you 30 days. BUT as always, and as it was before the rule change, it's up to the discretion of the officer.

hopefully i haven't confused things further, but that's my take.

I would agree with this interpretation.

[RickFarang]

Yeah, that's about as clear as mud.

[streetlite]

I'm still thick headed. I don't even know how to use the reply button.

Are you saying that the 180 begins on Oct. 1 and ends on March 30 for one 180 day period and then another begins on April 1 through Sept. 30?

Or does the 180 begin on your first arrival at any time during the year?

For example:

I arrive Dec. 24, 2006 and stay for 22 days. I come back on April 6, 2007 and stay for 14 days. A total of 36 days in a 4 month period. Does my 180 days run from Dec. 24 through June 24? And then begin a new cycle on June 25th through Dec. 23rd?

[jeebusjones]

I'm still thick headed. I don't even know how to use the reply button.

Are you saying that the 180 begins on Oct. 1 and ends on March 30 for one 180 day period and then another begins on April 1 through Sept. 30?

Or does the 180 begin on your first arrival at any time during the year?

For example:

I arrive Dec. 24, 2006 and stay for 22 days. I come back on April 6, 2007 and stay for 14 days. A total of 36 days in a 4 month period. Does my 180 days run from Dec. 24 through June 24? And then begin a new cycle on June 25th through Dec. 23rd?

The period should begin on your first entry after Oct 1, 2006. So if your first entry was Dec 24, your period begins then. Your 6 month period should reset on or around June 24.

[richard10365]

The way I understand it, as far as an auctual tourist visa issued from a Thai embassy or counsulate, you can have as many of these as you want back to back for the rest of your life. (Remeber that tourist are only allowed to stay for a maximum of 60 days at a time)

The visa on arrival or visa exemption is the one with the 90 day rule attached to it.

I might be reading all of this wrong.

Also, this is the immigration officer from one area in Thailand. Other immigration officiers might interpret the rules differently.

[AndyCanfield]

Hi,

How many tourist visas (2months and 1month extension) I can get in a row from Malaysia or Laos? Is it limited?

Good question, and one I've never seen properly answered.

I have met people with stamps in their passports that effectively say "This person has had too many TOURIST VISAs, and might not get one next time", but never heard of anyone actually being denied.

I have. I was at the Thai consulate in Vientiane last April when they were turning people away. People applying for tourist visas would be told "No, you have too many already." That included me. Fortunately, the officer was helpful and we came up with a reason for giving me a non-O visa. My ex-wife had to fax the birth certificate to Vientiane to satisfy them.

In August I got another non-O in Vientiane for the same reason with the same paperwork (brought the photocopy with me this time).

In November I was turned down for another non-O in Savannakhet despite giving the same reasons with the same paperwork.

In February I got another non-O in Vientiane for the same reason with the same paperwork.

The entire Thai visa system seems to be in chaos now, with each consular officer, each police officer, having a different idea of what the rules are supposed to be right now. Every farang experiences a different "policy". Eventually it will sort itself out.

[Martin]

It could well be that the officer made a comprehensible statement in Thai, but the translation has been mucked up.

As has been pointed out, it is at the discretion of the officer of the Royal Thai Immigration Police to whom the passport is presented, with the request that the passport-holder be permitted to enter the Kingdom, that entry is granted.

Sooner or later, the officrs are bound to start thinking that there are more of these requests being made than there are genuine tourists wanting to return again and again.

The generous exercise of this discretion that has occured in the past could soon be largely withdrawn, I suspect.

[Jingjok]

I tire of this nonsense.

I moved to Phuket two years ago, and here's my new solution: apply in KL for an MM2H (Malaysia My Second Home) visa.

Mine came through after three months, delayed only because of the huge number of applications recently received.

A ten year renewable visa. Come and go as frequently as you wish. Any foreigner may purchase buildings and land freehold. Capital Gains Tax on disposals reduced from 30% to 5% for MM2H holders after five years. No tax on remitted offshore income. No inheritance tax.

Why is anyone still in Thailand?

[aussiestyle1983]

Why is anyone still in Thailand?

Only because I can't change the departure date on our one way tickets!

[Chua]

I tire of this nonsense.

I moved to Phuket two years ago, and here's my new solution: apply in KL for an MM2H (Malaysia My Second Home) visa.

Mine came through after three months, delayed only because of the huge number of applications recently received.

A ten year renewable visa. Come and go as frequently as you wish. Any foreigner may purchase buildings and land freehold. Capital Gains Tax on disposals reduced from 30% to 5% for MM2H holders after five years. No tax on remitted offshore income. No inheritance tax.

Why is anyone still in Thailand?

The food.

The music.

The ladies.

The culture.

The nightlife.

The economy.

Malayasia is a dirty, unfriendly, polluted, arrogant, radical society where smoking is promoted but alcohol is discouraged.

Most people are looking for a place to live, not a place to invest.

[Hans Lankari]

I tire of this nonsense.

I moved to Phuket two years ago, and here's my new solution: apply in KL for an MM2H (Malaysia My Second Home) visa.

Mine came through after three months, delayed only because of the huge number of applications recently received.

A ten year renewable visa. Come and go as frequently as you wish. Any foreigner may purchase buildings and land freehold. Capital Gains Tax on disposals reduced from 30% to 5% for MM2H holders after five years. No tax on remitted offshore income. No inheritance tax.

Why is anyone still in Thailand?

The full hit on the nail on it's head!!!

This is EXCACTLY what I have been discussing with my friends and already was in MY 2 weeks ago to study more these opportunities that they are offering.

Many many facts speak on the behalf of Malaysia.

There is only one reason why Thailand keeps itself still up... you figure that out. Yes! One and ONLY reason!

[jii]

why is anyone here? well i see thailand as a fools paradise. at first it seems so good. you get sucked in. you then a thai women that seems so nice. you start to get serious here. maybe build a house. but then the whole card house comes crashing down. you then start to see behind the scenes. the stuff that thais try their dam hardest for you never to know about. but its too late youve already got major investments (not necessarily financial) here and cant just pick up and leave.

if anyone has been here 20 years or so its very easy to see thai history repeat itself over and over again. take a look the toxin and seattle cable guy his name something like munson was it joint venture. toxin all to happy to have some foreinger come in and bring in all the knowhow but once toxin figured he did not need him any more what did do? have him arrested and did commit purgery on the trumped up charges.

bottom line never ever do anything serious in thailand.

I tire of this nonsense.

I moved to Phuket two years ago, and here's my new solution: apply in KL for an MM2H (Malaysia My Second Home) visa.

Mine came through after three months, delayed only because of the huge number of applications recently received.

A ten year renewable visa. Come and go as frequently as you wish. Any foreigner may purchase buildings and land freehold. Capital Gains Tax on disposals reduced from 30% to 5% for MM2H holders after five years. No tax on remitted offshore income. No inheritance tax.

Why is anyone still in Thailand?

[tropo]

I tire of this nonsense.

I moved to Phuket two years ago, .....

Why is anyone still in Thailand?

Isn't Phuket in Thailand?

Edited April 28, 2007 by tropo

[Dakhar]

Amen,

I saw some coastal property for sale yesterday. 30 acres for 30K USD. Great place, great location, extremely beautiful, natural cove for parking a boat. I just smiled and walked away..

"Oh you could put the land in in your son's name," they said. Uh huh.... yea right.

[jii]

id agree. ive been to malaysia about 30 times or so over the years and have met the people and had many discussions about thailand and malaysia. we have always came to the same conclusions. k.l. not so nice but im thinking the northern malaysia areas not a bad idea at all for a long time stay. sure it does have the drinking scene like thailand doesnt bother me one bit. i strongly think malaysia be a great choice for an older western that could not speak the language as alot can speak english. also people in malaysia drive at half the speed of thailand. then the fact they do have international hospitals at the same level of bumrungrad but at much cheaper price. then the food. i actually prefer the food of malaysia to thailand. that second home scheme they have i actually read the whole conditions and it does look quite good. altough i have nothing like the money required that you need. but ive even read if you are married to a malaysian you can also work at any job in malaysia. yet another you cant do in thailand.

thais are way to proud and full of themselves.

Why is anyone still in Thailand?

The full hit on the nail on it's head!!!

This is EXCACTLY what I have been discussing with my friends and already was in MY 2 weeks ago to study more these opportunities that they are offering.

Many many facts speak on the behalf of Malaysia.

There is only one reason why Thailand keeps itself still up... you figure that out. Yes! One and ONLY reason!

[epicstuff]

It all sounds alittle better than it did a few months ago. clearer and fairer. All they need to do is make business and homeownership issues more reasonable.

But whats a 'permit to stay' and can any non 'o' visa holder aply??

[dogleg]

It all sounds alittle better than it did a few months ago. clearer and fairer. All they need to do is make business and homeownership issues more reasonable.

But whats a 'permit to stay' and can any non 'o' visa holder aply??

The permit to stay is just the stamp you get on arrival.

[wilko]

"and foreigners are now allowed to stay past the 180-day period,"

yet another load of unfathomable babble from an immigration official

[jii]

well ive got tons of expeience in malaysia i can comment on this. malaysia aint 1 country its 3. the 3 being the chinese the indians and the malay in no particular order. now ive notice in k.l. that the malays may be the less friendlier and im thinking deliberately dont tell you info that you may ask. the chinese and indians there although many have converted to islam or already were. have not experineced that with them. i do think that george bush has helped the world pick a side. while many before might have been sitting on the fense. but the inidans and chinese of malaysia whether islam or not for the most part have not at all felt hostiltiy towards foreigners. i would say what you are saying is possible. but you right now tell me exactly how much hands on exerience you have with malaysia?

i still think the north of malaysia the people are fine and have never had problems with them. the only negaitve i could see why some would not want to stay would fine the place boring. one thnk in the whole island of penang there aint one movie theatre. all closed from pirated cds. well i think one indian cinema has reopened.

Malaysia is no garden party either. There are lots of reports that radical Islamic policies are gaining even more influence there. We all choose our basket of risks in life.