Tilapia In Recirculation Systems.

[Tilapia]

Tilapia,

I don't lose any sleep over those certain members either.

Have you decided then that your existing filter vessel is not itself going to give you what you want and you are considering augmenting it with a trickle filter?...possibly using filter media made from defective pen barrels?

Chownah

Chownah.

A trickel-filter can be build next to the settlement tank, and then by-pass maybe 50% of the total water-volume through there. It can be made very cheap out of prefabricated concrete rings, as media there are many options, what ever gives the most surface area and best water-flow.

Do you like to question everything, just for the sake of an arguement ?? I just wonder.

Tilapia.

[Tilapia]

Hi Somtham.

Thanks for the nice words, I do get your point, and I promise that I wont lose any sleep over those certain members.

The idea with the pens, might work, if they are used in a trickle filter, it will take some work to put it together, but it will be cheaper than the original stuff, I will do some reseach. Do take a few more Changs, you seem to get some good alternative solutions from them.

Rgs

Tilapia.

So why not just "dump" the water and pump new water rather than expanding your biofilter?

One more thing. I met a guy at a "wat bote opening ceremony" in Korat who owns a factory in BKK and manufactures those cheap cigarette lighters for export to the tune of ~20M per month as I recall. So he has a number of injection molding machines and not sure what else he is making. He may have some ideas and contacts for the real biofilters and/or ideas for a do-it-yourself filter. Maybe I'll take him up on his offer for a factory tour and a round of golf!

rgds

Hi Somtham.

I cant dump the water, I circulate 153m3 per hour, it would require some very large backup amount of water to do that, and the 153m3 is per system (17 tanks) then multiply that with 20, that is the total number of systems there will be.

Anyone who has some molding machines, is worth contacting just make sure you let him win the golf game.

rgs.

Tilapia

[chownah]

Tilapia,

I don't lose any sleep over those certain members either.

Have you decided then that your existing filter vessel is not itself going to give you what you want and you are considering augmenting it with a trickle filter?...possibly using filter media made from defective pen barrels?

Chownah

Chownah.

A trickel-filter can be build next to the settlement tank, and then by-pass maybe 50% of the total water-volume through there. It can be made very cheap out of prefabricated concrete rings, as media there are many options, what ever gives the most surface area and best water-flow.

Do you like to question everything, just for the sake of an arguement ?? I just wonder.

Tilapia.

I question everything as a way to learn. Also, my life experience has taught me that things are never what they seem to be....so if you want to find out how things really are you need to question how you see them to get past your own preconceived notions. Also, it is my opinion that a person with a questioning mind has an open mind which is more able to learn than someone who does not question but instead assumes that what they know is the ultimate truth on a topic.

An example of things not being as they seem might be your perception of me....which many people seem to share....the misperception that I like to argue about everything. I like to exchange views and even to discuss the difference in views with others but when it gets to the point of using disrespectful and arguementative words then I am alway saddened and will try to point out to whoever that they are being disrespectful and arguementative....and if people think that I am being arguementative and disrespectful then I invite and request them to point that out to me in a PM and we can discuss that view....but people never seem to want to discuss these sorts of things in a PM....it seems that they would rather just make disrespectful statements about me in the public forum.

I try to be polite when posting my disagreement...if anyone feels that I am being impolite when I do this I invite and request them to PM me...the impolite impression is never what I am trying to make and perhaps I could learn just how my posts are conveying this misconception...but I really doubt that anyone will do this...it is my opinion that when people make public comments about me that they are not motivated to try to help me but really they are just wanting to vent their own personal frustration....it seems that many people become very frustrated when they read a view on a topic that is different from theirs.

Chownah

[Vegemite]

done.

Chownah

the point that everybody seems to be missing here is that, no matter which filter medium you use,without OXYGENATION the AEROBIC BACTERIA-( the one we are trying to cultivate, and this bacteria is heavily dependent on oxygen to do its job correctly ), will die. the idea is to have as much of the bacteria exposed to as much of the BACTERIA-not just the media- as possible.

almost all the media suggested by posters here are good. sure, the larger the surface area the more bacteria can be accommodated,and the more water can come into contact with the bacteria, and this is very important but oxygenation is critical.

you will find big paddlewheels on some of the rivers,canals and ponds in thailand.(i am not talking about the ones they use in the shrimpfarming industry). these are used to stimulate the growth of aerobic bacteria to clean up the contaminated water. this system i have seen all over-from the canals in korat to a huge one in the pond in lumpini park,bankok, and they work in the absence of commercially available filter media,although they would obviously be more effective if they did use media.

it is also very important to use a system comprised of different,seperate chambers.as,depending on nutrient load,the first stage can change over between nitrification and denitrification and back. forget the expensive commercially available medium-each supplier claims his is the best and what is best for your situation is the one which does the job for you and fits your budget and available space. even professional filter suppliers disagree on which system is best- some push the trickle tower concept and others tell you this is not a good system and that a three chambered system is necessary.

i suggest you experiment with what is available. the bottlecaps,broken pvc pipes, sand,stone,broken pottery shards etc all will work well. coconut husk will probably be good too, but most media seems to be made of inorganic material , although i read an article claiming that sphagmum moss had tested as the finest medium available.

good luck,

frikkie

[

/quote]

This is a subject that really interests me.

We have land close to the local lake up northeast and I have run this idea past the wife before now.

How do I learn more?

[Tilapia]

Tilapia,

I don't lose any sleep over those certain members either.

Have you decided then that your existing filter vessel is not itself going to give you what you want and you are considering augmenting it with a trickle filter?...possibly using filter media made from defective pen barrels?

Chownah

Chownah.

A trickel-filter can be build next to the settlement tank, and then by-pass maybe 50% of the total water-volume through there. It can be made very cheap out of prefabricated concrete rings, as media there are many options, what ever gives the most surface area and best water-flow.

Do you like to question everything, just for the sake of an arguement ?? I just wonder.

Tilapia.

I question everything as a way to learn. Also, my life experience has taught me that things are never what they seem to be....so if you want to find out how things really are you need to question how you see them to get past your own preconceived notions. Also, it is my opinion that a person with a questioning mind has an open mind which is more able to learn than someone who does not question but instead assumes that what they know is the ultimate truth on a topic.

An example of things not being as they seem might be your perception of me....which many people seem to share....the misperception that I like to argue about everything. I like to exchange views and even to discuss the difference in views with others but when it gets to the point of using disrespectful and arguementative words then I am alway saddened and will try to point out to whoever that they are being disrespectful and arguementative....and if people think that I am being arguementative and disrespectful then I invite and request them to point that out to me in a PM and we can discuss that view....but people never seem to want to discuss these sorts of things in a PM....it seems that they would rather just make disrespectful statements about me in the public forum.

I try to be polite when posting my disagreement...if anyone feels that I am being impolite when I do this I invite and request them to PM me...the impolite impression is never what I am trying to make and perhaps I could learn just how my posts are conveying this misconception...but I really doubt that anyone will do this...it is my opinion that when people make public comments about me that they are not motivated to try to help me but really they are just wanting to vent their own personal frustration....it seems that many people become very frustrated when they read a view on a topic that is different from theirs.

Chownah

I did send you a PM, but you never responded....correct me if I'm wrong.

This subject has been misunderstod, I wasent asking how bio-filters work..I was looking for a solution to increase my stocking density, without having to spend the fortune the dealers ask for a simple piece of plastic....Only that.

Tilapia

[macan]

We have an Australian student here on a work placement and he told me that they use bundles of drinking straws at Flinders Uni... it's a cheaper version of the pen cases suggested earlier with greater surface area to volume.

My rough calculation indicates you would get over 1000 square metres per cubic meter (about 126,000 straws.. not sure how much string or glue ). Problems, apart from finding someone to tie enough straws together might include blocking of the honeycomb with gunk over time squashing under pressure (though the bundle of straws i have are pretty rigid as a whole).

Don't know the cost of straws wholesale but they must be cheap considering how you get several for every drink you buy in a 7/11... do the recyclers collect them from the garbage, if they don't i bet they could be persuaded to?

WHats the cost and SA:V for bioballs?

Another thing i thought of was those curly, springy, silver plastic pan-scrubbers.

Good luck!

[Somtham]

We have an Australian student here on a work placement and he told me that they use bundles of drinking straws at Flinders Uni... it's a cheaper version of the pen cases suggested earlier with greater surface area to volume.

My rough calculation indicates you would get over 1000 square metres per cubic meter (about 126,000 straws.. not sure how much string or glue ). Problems, apart from finding someone to tie enough straws together might include blocking of the honeycomb with gunk over time squashing under pressure (though the bundle of straws i have are pretty rigid as a whole).

Don't know the cost of straws wholesale but they must be cheap considering how you get several for every drink you buy in a 7/11... do the recyclers collect them from the garbage, if they don't i bet they could be persuaded to?

WHats the cost and SA:V for bioballs?

Another thing i thought of was those curly, springy, silver plastic pan-scrubbers.

Good luck!

Ah yes, thought of that one last night but figured they wouldn't last over time. Can you ask the student how long they last?

How about those plastic beads they use for cheap necklaces? Could probably buy square or round with a good size hole through it. Pour them in a net and ready to go. No secondary processing and I would think easy to clean.

rgds

[chownah]

Tilapia,

I don't lose any sleep over those certain members either.

Have you decided then that your existing filter vessel is not itself going to give you what you want and you are considering augmenting it with a trickle filter?...possibly using filter media made from defective pen barrels?

Chownah

Chownah.

A trickel-filter can be build next to the settlement tank, and then by-pass maybe 50% of the total water-volume through there. It can be made very cheap out of prefabricated concrete rings, as media there are many options, what ever gives the most surface area and best water-flow.

Do you like to question everything, just for the sake of an arguement ?? I just wonder.

Tilapia.

I question everything as a way to learn. Also, my life experience has taught me that things are never what they seem to be....so if you want to find out how things really are you need to question how you see them to get past your own preconceived notions. Also, it is my opinion that a person with a questioning mind has an open mind which is more able to learn than someone who does not question but instead assumes that what they know is the ultimate truth on a topic.

An example of things not being as they seem might be your perception of me....which many people seem to share....the misperception that I like to argue about everything. I like to exchange views and even to discuss the difference in views with others but when it gets to the point of using disrespectful and arguementative words then I am alway saddened and will try to point out to whoever that they are being disrespectful and arguementative....and if people think that I am being arguementative and disrespectful then I invite and request them to point that out to me in a PM and we can discuss that view....but people never seem to want to discuss these sorts of things in a PM....it seems that they would rather just make disrespectful statements about me in the public forum.

I try to be polite when posting my disagreement...if anyone feels that I am being impolite when I do this I invite and request them to PM me...the impolite impression is never what I am trying to make and perhaps I could learn just how my posts are conveying this misconception...but I really doubt that anyone will do this...it is my opinion that when people make public comments about me that they are not motivated to try to help me but really they are just wanting to vent their own personal frustration....it seems that many people become very frustrated when they read a view on a topic that is different from theirs.

Chownah

I did send you a PM, but you never responded....correct me if I'm wrong.

This subject has been misunderstod, I wasent asking how bio-filters work..I was looking for a solution to increase my stocking density, without having to spend the fortune the dealers ask for a simple piece of plastic....Only that.

Tilapia

Yes, you sent me one PM in which you apologized for a mix up on my address. I didn't know that you expected a reply and I have just sent you one. Sorry for the delay.

Chownah

[Tilapia]

We have an Australian student here on a work placement and he told me that they use bundles of drinking straws at Flinders Uni... it's a cheaper version of the pen cases suggested earlier with greater surface area to volume.

My rough calculation indicates you would get over 1000 square metres per cubic meter (about 126,000 straws.. not sure how much string or glue ). Problems, apart from finding someone to tie enough straws together might include blocking of the honeycomb with gunk over time squashing under pressure (though the bundle of straws i have are pretty rigid as a whole).

Don't know the cost of straws wholesale but they must be cheap considering how you get several for every drink you buy in a 7/11... do the recyclers collect them from the garbage, if they don't i bet they could be persuaded to?

WHats the cost and SA:V for bioballs?

Another thing i thought of was those curly, springy, silver plastic pan-scrubbers.

Good luck!

Hi Macan.

I dont think the straws can with-stand the high flow and pressure from the water. Bio-balls have to low surface-area, only about max 200-300m2 per 1m3 of media, not good enough. I have found what I need, but I do not like the price, but it has a surface-area at 800m2 per 1m3 of media and I would need 15m3 of media to get me to 100kg of fish/m3 of water. 1 m3 of media is 25.000baht multiplied with 15 = 375.000baht multiplied with 20 systems = 7.500.000mill baht......for small pieces of plastic !!!!!

Regards.

Tilapia.

[Tim207]

Hi Macan.

I dont think the straws can with-stand the high flow and pressure from the water. Bio-balls have to low surface-area, only about max 200-300m2 per 1m3 of media, not good enough. I have found what I need, but I do not like the price, but it has a surface-area at 800m2 per 1m3 of media and I would need 15m3 of media to get me to 100kg of fish/m3 of water. 1 m3 of media is 25.000baht multiplied with 15 = 375.000baht multiplied with 20 systems = 7.500.000mill baht......for small pieces of plastic !!!!!

Regards.

Tilapia.

If you need that large a volume, why not get some samples and see if you can find a plastics manufacturer that can duplicate the patern at a fair price?

[macan]

Somtham - the student says they ran the system for 16 months in saltwater but it did not have a high loading to cope with, so difficult to say how it would cope over time. It was kept in the dark so there was no problem with UV degradation of the plastic or green algae clogging it up. Straws were in line with the flow and held in bundles with plastic cable ties.

I was impressed by how resistant a bundle of straws are to pressure, compression only seems to occur on the outside layer when you squeeze them when dry, i havent tried squeezing a bunch of straws that were full of water but am sure they would hold up pretty well even at the bottom of a large column of water. You could align them with the flow which would help a lot..... Maybe worth a trial or three.

[Somtham]

While Googling about looking for Thailand plastic bead manufacturers I stumbled upon this company. They make a small plastic bead specifically for biofilters. Not sure how proud (read expensive) of their product they are though!!!

http://www.aqwise.com/brochure/AqWise_Engl...Brochure_HQ.pdf

It's an Israeli company. There is a very active ThaiVisa member named 'Bina' that lives in Israel with her Thai partner and posts regularly in the faring forum. If you PM her she could probably make a phone call or two to inquire about prices. Here's the company contact details.

Mailing address: POB 12615 Herzliya 46733, Israel

Address: Beit Ofek Hamenofim 8, Herzliya, Israel

Phone: +972-9-959-1901

rgds

[ray23]

Intresting subject I asked this question in another thread, but got no answers. The answer will effect if I will continue research, simply becaue I may or may not be able to do this. I have no place to do thi in my home. So what would you guys think realistically would be a sufficient amont of land to produce a profit of 40K a month.

You got to start somehwer in my case that would be the first expense and may make impossible or not for me.

Thanks

Ray

[Tilapia]

Hi Macan.

I dont think the straws can with-stand the high flow and pressure from the water. Bio-balls have to low surface-area, only about max 200-300m2 per 1m3 of media, not good enough. I have found what I need, but I do not like the price, but it has a surface-area at 800m2 per 1m3 of media and I would need 15m3 of media to get me to 100kg of fish/m3 of water. 1 m3 of media is 25.000baht multiplied with 15 = 375.000baht multiplied with 20 systems = 7.500.000mill baht......for small pieces of plastic !!!!!

Regards.

Tilapia.

If you need that large a volume, why not get some samples and see if you can find a plastics manufacturer that can duplicate the patern at a fair price?

That is what I'm trying, but so far not any luck, but never give up..

Tilapia

[bina]

hey guys

just ran through the thread;

we use stones called 'toof' that is brought down from the golan heights. it is reddish (iron base i guess) stones from lava. toof is light mass. it is also full of holes and crannies and is very rough textured. i suppose that is what makes it good? that is what we are using in our duck ponds and garden fish ponds. everyone here seems to use toof. we have to buy it but it is local so not too too expensive. there are various sizes also.

we fill a potatoe sack (those nylon net bags) with toof and put in old washing machine drums. on top, we use cheap plastic netting. nto sure aobut cost effective, or if fits a fishery but it works for us.

just had over 500 shekel of goldfish die yesterday after pump broke down. it didnt work for 12 hours and in this heat, bacterial infection hit the fish as the bad organisms over took the good organisms (the pump circulates the water through a bio and physical filter/waterfall providing good oxygenation and cleaning, and 24 hrs later, everyone has body infections. will not treat, just cull. and resetup the pond. just in time for holiday visitors. (

[Tilapia]

hey guys

just ran through the thread;

we use stones called 'toof' that is brought down from the golan heights. it is reddish (iron base i guess) stones from lava. toof is light mass. it is also full of holes and crannies and is very rough textured. i suppose that is what makes it good? that is what we are using in our duck ponds and garden fish ponds. everyone here seems to use toof. we have to buy it but it is local so not too too expensive. there are various sizes also.

we fill a potatoe sack (those nylon net bags) with toof and put in old washing machine drums. on top, we use cheap plastic netting. nto sure aobut cost effective, or if fits a fishery but it works for us.

just had over 500 shekel of goldfish die yesterday after pump broke down. it didnt work for 12 hours and in this heat, bacterial infection hit the fish as the bad organisms over took the good organisms (the pump circulates the water through a bio and physical filter/waterfall providing good oxygenation and cleaning, and 24 hrs later, everyone has body infections. will not treat, just cull. and resetup the pond. just in time for holiday visitors. (

Hi Bina.

Equipment breake-down is never good, if you do large scale, you will need back-up pumps, and a generator as well, it only takes a few hours without water-circulation, then your bio-filter is dead, and you will have to start all over again (been there done that). Regarding the material for bio-media, I have come to the conclution, that there is no short-cut if I want to go higher than 50-60kg/m3 of water, so I bite the bullet and get on with the job.

Hope you get it ready for the tourist

Best regards.

Tilapia.

[bina]

generator, gimme a break.... we have two small egg hatcheries and if the electicity goes, the eggs go also (happened twice) but management still thinks we dont need a back up generator. we have one for the childrens' jumps (safety first)...

500 shekels worth of fish isnt really anything if u are a big business but for us it was a small stocked pond and a lot of bullet to bite... just bought same amount of new fish, restocked (translplanted 'toof' from the duck pond )...

thanx

[Tilapia]

generator, gimme a break.... we have two small egg hatcheries and if the electicity goes, the eggs go also (happened twice) but management still thinks we dont need a back up generator. we have one for the childrens' jumps (safety first)...

500 shekels worth of fish isnt really anything if u are a big business but for us it was a small stocked pond and a lot of bullet to bite... just bought same amount of new fish, restocked (translplanted 'toof' from the duck pond )...

thanx

I diden't mean you ! I was reffering to myself about the bio-media, and bite the bullet remark, ok ??

A generator for your size operation, wont be that expensive, so tell your bosses (from me) that they should take a small pay-cut, so there could be purchased a small generator.

Tilapia