How do you classify an Alcoholic? I drink 15 x 375ml x5% cans of beer every day, which I am sure some people would say was Alcoholic, however I work 6 nights a week 8-10 hours a night, never late for work/never hungover/never any sick days off. I think the term Alcoholic is relative to individual people.

Yohan asked what would happen to a bar if it stopped selling alcohol, to me it would no longer be a bar

I don't want to be patronising, but for how long have you done this?

And I'd like to read your comment in a year or two from now.

I as a "recovered alcoholic" will join this thread with some info and answers of my own and anyone that would like to have conversational intercourse with me on the subject to email or PM me.

Alcohol is not an addictive "drug" so alcohol addiction is not,it is compulsive behavior. Heroin is an addictive drug.

Just because you can go for long periods with out alcohol does not mean that you are not an alcoholic, If when you do drink,no matter what it is[wine,beer,whiskey] that after you have one drink that you have to have or crave another,then you probably have a problem.

Altho it has been over 22 years since my last drink,and before that I was drunk til the age of 48 everytime I had a drink,or at least had a terrible craving for another. Far be it for me to say who is and who is not an alcoholic.

That is something that only you can say,and you will be able to make that decision with further info on the subject. And such info is available to anyone at your nearest AA meeting place in a book written in 1939 by a bunch of recovering and recovered alcoholics and is for sale or there for you to read,especially chapter #3, so before you make any decision,I would recommend you read it and without prejudice.Here is a link for the nearest AA meeting place or just info.

http://www.theagapecenter.com/AA/Thailand.htm

I know that there are people that will deny they have a problem, and that is their own business,and some will deny it unto death or insanity,which ever comes first.

And for those that will tell me that you cannot be a "RECOVERED" but can be a "RECOVERING" alkie ,I suggest that you read you book again, it states ;and I quote "THE STORY OF MANY THOUSANDS OF MEN AND WOMEN HAVE RECOVERED FROM ALCOHOLISM" I do not believe all that I read,But if it says it in the book ALCOHLICS ANONYMOUS then it is a fact and I believe it.

I work in an industry where alcohol is strictly forbidden. So, I go 6 months of the year having absolutely no drinks to a couple a night when I'm home. I've learned my limit after all these years and unless it's a very rare occasion, never get so polluted I have a hang-over the next day any more.

Alcoholic Drinks, Are they necessary?

They are if your trying to get drunk

KevinN:

"Alcohol is not an addictive "drug" so alcohol addiction is not,it is compulsive behavior."

Alcohol is a drug, but if looking at your compulsive behavior helped you to quit, I won't argue.

And you called me a junkie, man!

Drinkers currently outnumber teetotlars by 15-2. I take it that the 2 are Yohan and Kevin. Is there a single member on ThXP forum that does not drink excluding these two?

Should be a good piss up sometime

Oh, please don't feel excluded, Yohan.

I'm not going to vote yet...

i dont have a category that fits for me, I'm somewhere inbetween "I drink a lot every day" and "little, sometimes, not often"

I have a drink most days, usually a bottle or two of beer in an evening whilst on the computer, watching the TV or enjoying the outside in the evening.

I do go binge drinking, get wasted and stagger around saying silly things to people. This doesnt happen often, but does happen.

I'm fully aware of the long term effects of alcohol having personally witnessed alcoholics in full swing, my family have been in the "public house" industry since before i was born. Grog is a drug, addiction is another subject as its possible for a person to become addicted to practically anything... mental addiction that is.

> May I ask, who was editing my poll?

I edited it. For me I have an 'edit' link up there.

I also have a link to see you all with X-ray vision without clothes, but so far I've resisted posting all of your pics all over the internet.

Cheers,

Chanchao

I don't drink ( see my post)

Kevin doesn't drink(see his post)

I think we are the 2 voters.

Yohan forgot to vote?

Or is anyone of us 3 intoxinated

I as a "recovered alcoholic" .....

Altho it has been over 22 years since my last drink,

Congratulations!

Yes, there is a 'recovered alcoholic' - no question about that, but many people do not believe it.

It is because many alcoholics, still recovering, are starting to drink again and again.....I have seen many alcoholics here in Japan, in Thailand and same, while living in Europe.

To become a 'recovered alcoholic' you need a strong will, out of yourself, or it will not work. While the first period might be overcome painfully, but stable with medical help, the critical period is meeting your friends ....

Just a litte bit.... and a little bit is already too much....

And your friends will not care about that - they do not understand it.....

Even after 22 years, a small glass of wine - or any other alcoholic drink, and the alcoholic desire will be back forcefully again....

Do not listen to others, who are offering you even tiny amounts of alcohol....

A little, a bit more or much more .... alcoholic or non-alcoholic - this all does not make any sense to me....

Do not drink alcohol at all!

All the best for you

Johann

This hang-over pill is being pushed via TV commercials right now in the US:

The Chaser Pill

On the subject, I had an older brother who was an alcoholic and an amfetamin-addict. A downward spiral led to him finally dying when one of his "buddies" crashed a stolen ride...a strong deterrant for my younger brothers.

Me myself, I do drink too much on occasion. Living an expat (salary) life right now I find it very easy to revert to drinking several nights per week. After the first couple of drinks I fight myself whether to have another drink or not - and it's not easy - I'll tell you that much...

The strange thing is, I do enjoy so much that initial buzz...whattodo?

/// DFW

I'm not going to vote yet...

i dont have a category that fits for me, I'm somewhere inbetween "I drink a lot every day" and "little, sometimes, not often"

for CHANCHAO:

Please consider WOLFIE

and make an additional line, like: for average, or medium, or some glasses, but never a drunk.... or what you think might fit....OK?

Thank you!

for DUTCH:

I voted already (I do not drink at all!)

I do not know, who is the only person, who voted with me...

I did not vote as there was no real category for me, I never drink,I am an alcoholic,and as such I will die an alcoholic,but with the life and knowledge I have now,I hope to die sober. You can make a cucumber into a pickle,,but you can not make a pickle into a cucumber.

Some of us change from a drug addiction to alcohol,and soon become an alcoholic if not already one.

And I will not get into a pissing contest as to whether alcohol is a drug,,It is not a drug,you can become addicted to a drug,.but you cannot become addicted to alcohol,it is a compulsive behavior that makes you drink and not a true addiction.

When you go into a detox and have been drunk for a long period of time,your system will pobly require medical help to keep you from dying because your system is used to large amounts of alcohol in your blood stream,it only takes a few days,a week at the most to get your system back to where it can function without alcohol, Then it is over,no way can you recover from a drug addiction with so easy a time as that.No way your system will crave alcohol,your compulsive behavior might as that is the way that you faced everything in life.but you will have no side effects from booze withdrawl after your blood is clean.

I am just one drink away from a drunk,and will remain so as long as I live.

when you drink,your tolerance to alcohol goes up, When you are in the final stages of acute alcoholism your tolerance goes down.So if you drink large amounts of alcohol with out bad effects then you are still in the early stages of the disease,which will surely come to an end with time.so when your tolerance starts to fall,it is time to do something,but usually by that time,you cannot do it alone.

Or do like my father-in-law did some 20 years ago. Checked himself into a Buddhist Monestary and he's now a happy Monk. No booze and no women!

...not for me...

I drink because I enjoy it. I guess it is a habit but believe I could pack it up it I wanted to. I do not drink and drive.

I was around people on heavy drugs in the sixties (had a g/f who died of a heroin o'd) and I don't think you can compare the two for the harm they can do.

Many friends (especially Chinese - I currently live in HK) do not drink at all, and there is no issue.

I think a suitable middle option would be...

"I drink occasionally"

or

"I drink a little everyday"

or

"I drink a little most days"

Theres too wide a gap between "I drink a lot every day" and "Little, sometimes etc."

Edit: Opps.. a little cross posting/cross editing going on... forget the above

I did not vote as there was no real category for me, I never drink,I am an alcoholic,and as such I will die an alcoholic,but with the life and knowledge I have now,I hope to die sober.

KevinN, please vote for the category:

I do not drink at all!

Why not? 22 years, and fully aware of danger by alcohol...

Thank you!

Johann

Thanks to the administrator to add the aditional categories....

I drink nearly everynight, sometimes in moderation, sometimes excessively.

It's quite hard not to sometimes, especially when you run a bar, sometimes it bothers me as i feel i need to drink, but then i will go without for 2 or 3 days. I very rarely have a drink in the daytime, normally i won't touch alcohol before 10-11pm.

Docs just told me to cut down as blood sugar and cholestorol are too high, so my wife and I drank red wine in the landmark in bkk the other night, 7300bht bill , good night though

>> Alcoholic Drinks, Are they necessary?

>They are if your trying to get drunk

I think you could also inject alcohol directly into the blood stream. Like walk around with a drip or something.

I'm not a doctor though so don't take my word for it and don't try this at home.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Drinkers currently outnumber teetotlars by 15-2. I take it that the 2 are Yohan and Kevin. Is there a single member on ThXP forum that does not drink excluding these two?

I don't drink alcohol

FOr the simple reason that i worked in the hospitality biz for 10 years. I just got fed up with the drunks all the time.

Now i'm in the IT biz. Drinking just leaves me unable to work next day, got to keep my head thinking ,not buzzing

Mind you , one advantage of not drinking is that IF you do.... you really get drunk quickly

I too would not like to get into a pissing match regrding alcohol as a drug, suffice to say the vast majority of recovering alcoholics would not agree with KevinN on the subject. His discription of the physical manifestation of withdrawal from long abuse of alcohol speaks volumes as to it being a drug, withrawal symptoms are proof enough that alcohol is addictive and therefore, by definition, an addictive substance. If it walks like a duck, etc. call it an adictive substance if you will, not a drug, but to say alcohol dependence is merely "compulsive behavior" is just plain wrong. Heroin use is certainly "compulsive behavior" by the same logic.

There was a question from one poster as to whether he drank too much.

A psychiatrist answering that question would ask you if your drinking caused you any problems in your life, and if it does, you drink too much.

The degree of alcohol dependence varies from individual to individual, the key issue is if your able to go without comfortably, able to leave half a glass of your favorite poison unfinished when you have had enough, never had memory loss after drinking, caused problems in your relationship after drinking, have a feeling you drink too much, ever refused an offered drink of a type or brand you like, ever tried to control the amount you drink, changed types of drink to less intoxicating types, a yes to any of the foregoing is an early sign of the disease.

Losing time from work after a drinking episode, blackouts, "acting out" when drinking, having personality change while drinking, not being able to say no to alcohol or losing control while drinking are all signs of more advanced alcoholism.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease, so if you have any doubts now, just wait a while and you will see the progression, perhaps make a note to yourself of how you drink now so you will be able to look back objectively when you question your drinking later.

Yohan: Your question of social acceptace of non-drinkers is one of the earliest ones asked by recoveing alcoholics. Those persons who bring up your non-alcoholic drink order may have a problem themselves. A simple, I don't like the stuff, it taste awful to me, I am alegeric to it, is generally sufficient to put the matter to rest. If the people in your party are so far gone down the road to alcoholism that they are uncomfortable around people who don't drink, then it is their problem, not yours. You probably wouldn't enjoy such people after they have had a few anyway.

Moderation is everything. Yes, sometimes I am beyond the limit set by my body, not by me.

I have no problem with people who don't drink at all, neither will I push them, but frankly speaking, I do not wish to be sober in a pub with all other people drinking. Feel sorry for the pub-owners, who usually stay sober and have to listen to all the nonsense-talk....

But generally, I do drink my beer, why not, I like it.

Nothing better than a nice bottle of wine, perhaps from an area which I know well and even better a vintage that I can say, 'yes that summer I was there...'

Just read your post, ProThaiExpat, spot on all the way through.

I drink nothing during the week, but lots on Friday

Not all fridays, but some.

Today will probably be one of them.

If I do not post anymore, it was one of them,...

i didn t see a catagory that fit me... I am pretty much the same as wolfie, have a couple of drinks most nights then if I go somewhere I might have a big night on the turps.

I believe seeing a person drunk usually allows you to see past the facade they normally are able to maintain.

PTE;;I too would not like to get into a pissing match regrding alcohol as a drug, suffice to say the vast majority of recovering alcoholics would not agree with KevinN on the subject.

The degree of alcohol dependence varies from individual to individual, the key issue is if your able to go without comfortably, able to leave half a glass of your favorite poison unfinished when you have had enough, never had memory loss after drinking, caused problems in your relationship after drinking, have a feeling you drink too much, ever refused an offered drink of a type or brand you like, ever tried to control the amount you drink, changed types of drink to less intoxicating types, a yes to any of the foregoing is an early sign of the disease.""

I copy/paste some of your post

No alcoholic with any time at in the program will say alcohol is a drug,everyone will admit that it is a mind altering chemical,but is not a drug,I know thousands of alcoholics,have ridden with motorcycle clubs comprised solely of addicts and alkies,and every one of them knows alcohol is not a drug,I have worked as a volunteer at recovery houses and hospital alkie wards,with alkie recovery businesses,and the true alkie will all say alcohol is not a drug,doctors that understand the disease will say the same thing,

You seem to have read some or know something about alcoholism and what constitues the disease,read what I copy/paste of your post and see if you didn't make a mistake what you posted about what constitutes an alkie.some of the things that you said do indicate an alkie,and some do not,,but it seems to me that you included all of it to mean you have a problem.

But I say again that alcohol is not addictive, You can drink everyday,as with STROLL and can quit if you want to and have no physical cravings as with a drug addiction.but you take one drink and then you want another,but are not bothered in the least with out any. as with binge drinking,one leads to another and so it goes til you are sick and then it is none,the only trouble that most have with staying quit is that they have to face life on lifes terms and it is easier to have some drinks and say,"aw fuk it", I have seen a few guys die due to withdrawl and shock because their system was used to running on alkie and it was suddenly stopped,I have never seen a junkie die from the drug being with held.and I have been in jail with a lot of em.

For those reading this thread who would like other imput on whether alcohol is a drug, other than KevinN's or mine, just go to google and search under "alcohol as a drug". I had over a million hits and copied one of the first threads on the first page directed at Teens and list it below:

"ALCOHOL AND OTHER DRUG INFORMATION FOR TEENS. ... drugs and alcohol?

(alcohol is definitely a drug, too...just like nicotine is!). "

Yohan:  Your question of social acceptace of non-drinkers is one of the earliest ones asked by recoveing alcoholics.  Those persons who bring up your non-alcoholic drink order may have a problem themselves.  A simple, I don't like the stuff, it taste awful to me, I am alegeric to it, is generally sufficient to put the matter to rest.  If the people in your party are so far gone down the road to alcoholism that they are uncomfortable around people who don't drink, then it is their problem, not yours.  You probably wouldn't enjoy such people after they have had a few anyway.

Thank you, this is really a very good information, explaining to me much about remarks, I receive frequently during receptions, invitations...

I understood these remarks always like to make fun out of me and found them insulting, especially when made by women in an offensive way.

Your description indeed fits so clearly to such people, who might have alcoholic problems themselves. I think, you are right - I have to think about it....and to reconsider my opinion....

Thanks again,

Johann

ProThaiExpat beat me to it again....

KevinN:

"And I will not get into a pissing contest as to whether alcohol is a drug"

Let's agree that we disagree on the issue. Enough said already already for those who want to know.

I am glad however you dealt with it worked for you.

BTW, a bit more respect for others who have also dealt with their addiction/compulsive behaviour would be appreciated.

PTE OK anything you say,call it anything you want as long as it makes you happy,,But most of us at AA do not consider it a drug as it is not an addictive substance, mentaly you want to drink cause thats what you always did but it is not physically addictive.

I have drank for long periods and stopped for long periods and drank anain.

AA works for alcoholics but is real iffy for addicts.Anyone is welcome at open AA meetings ,but are not allowed to attend closed meetings,they are only for alkies

NA works for some addicts but is still iffy.as I have seen very few ever get straight and stay that way,,and by the way,I have lost 2 sons to the disease.

Bill W. said that we can not really help the addict,and I know that they are different and we can not really help them.I have tried.

but you will notice that every XXX Anonymous,uses the 12 steps and a copy program from AA,thats because it is the only thing that works for alkies. Every rehab facility always stresses going to AA meetings,,they know that is the only chance a real alkie has to stay sober.