Tourist Visa Contradictory Information

[Charles2550]

Hi,

I am in the same situation as the guy who posted under the title: "Too young and no biz". So no easy option.

However I have been using the Tourist Visa option for years. It was not uncomfortable...Having to get out of Thailand in order to validate the next entry of my visa was not an hassle at all. It was an opportunity to visit neighbouring countries.

Alas, authorities seem to tighten the screw nowadays-not only for the 30 days visa exemption.

In France, my home country, the Consulate was providing me with 3 entries Tourist Visa without any problem... Untill last month. When I went to apply in April they told me :

a)They could only give me 2 entries.

b)The second entry might only be valid for 30 days: "it would be up to the immigration officer at the border".

c)Time spent in Thailand with a proper Tourist Visa counts towards the 180 days rule. Meaning; even with proper Tourist Visa obtained at Embassies or Consulates, I could only spend 180 days/a year in Thailand.

I am not too surprised with the first two points: limitation has been in the air since october 2006... However, so far I was hoping the Tourist Visa would get me out of trouble.

The third point is contradictory with informations obtained elsewhere... For example on this site where Pol Capt Krissarat Nuesen (Phuket Provincial Immigration Office) is quoted stressing that "the 90 days rule does not affect people who have been issued a visa from the Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate".

It looks like the screw is being tightened from both ends targetting people who use 60 days tourist visa.

Is anyone getting the same feeling?

Anyone seeing the truth through such contradictory information?

Thanks for your comments and good luck!

[ovenman]

The third point is contradictory with informations obtained elsewhere... For example on this site where Pol Capt Krissarat Nuesen (Phuket Provincial Immigration Office) is quoted stressing that "the 90 days rule does not affect people who have been issued a visa from the Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate".

By all indications thus far, what the quoted immigrations official stated appears to be correct; what they told you at the consulate in France appears to be a misinterpretation. There's an awful lot of misinformation floating about, distressing when it emanates from people who really should have the correct facts (e.g. Thai consular offices).

[brahmburgers]

good luck Charles and the many other young folks who would like to travel in SE Asia. Yes, Thailand is tightening the screws and they're doing it in an obtuse manner which more often disadvantages the 'good guys' - rather than the 'undesirables' who are targetted by mutable gov't mandates.

It's like Ahab shouting orders from the poop deck, except the steering wheel has come off in his hands, and barnacles have crusted over the rudder so its permanently steers to the right.

[lopburi3]

B and C are not how it is working on the ground. It is always up to the immigration officer but we have not seen any sign of a second entry only getting a 30 day stamp - in fact all entries obtain the normal 60 days (if from country authorized for that period) and can be extended 30 days. There is no 180 day rule - it is six months and only applies to entry without visa.

[Charles2550]

Thanks guys for the reassuring information.

Indeed there are a lot of misunterpretation floating about (especially about this Tourist Visa issue)... That's what gets me worrying at times.

This time the misunterpretion was printed. The information form available at the Consulate stipulated that the second of the two entries (of the Tourist Visa) might only be validated for only 30 days upon a discretionary decision of the Immigration officer at the border post.

Anyway, you say all the information you have been gathering so far on this forum shows that it doesn't work this way on the ground (and you seem pretty experienced when you have noticed it's only my second post). That's good to hear.

I am grateful for your time.

I would like to put my all my faith in these good statistics.

It would be awful but let's suppose... And if the French Consulate interpretation was a sign pointing to the future? It would be interesting to hear if someone else, elsewhere in the world has been given the same interpretation.

By the way Brahmburgers, I don't really belong to the "young folks"; turned 47 and greying. Thanks anyway!

[Charles2550]

I am not trying to steer up some extra paranoia here...

However, I wish to add that the essence of the printed information provided by Thai Consulate in France is consistent with a talk I had in december 2006 with an Embassy official, here in Bangkok. This person told me Thai immigration policy will tend to limit the amount of time foreigners spend in LOS under a 60 days Tourist Visa within a one year period. This was after a meeting they had with Immigration officials in Bangkok. Details were unclear back then.

I am just trying to anticipate possible negative future changes in order to have time for organizing B plan... Which in my case (no biz and a bit too young for retiree visa) is going to be tricky. I can't see any "elegant" option so far.

Cheers

[Fred Sanford]

I don't buy it Charles

[Mahout Angrit]

Charles

It would seem from reports on the ground that there is currently no restriction on tourist visa entry.

If you are having problems getting a tourist visa in France, couldn't you try another EU consulate.( if there isn't another in France) As a EU citizen it wouldn't be too difficult to rustle up a reason to be living in one or other of your neighbouring countries and the consulate there may be more willing to give a triple entry.

Experience has shown that consulates act and interpret the rules differently and some consulates have a reputation of being 'friendly'

Anyway only another 3 years to do it before you can retire to Thailand

[Charles2550]

Fred,

I know it's hard to buy(wishing it stays that way). From a rational point of view I would say we contribute to Thai economy in many ways. By applying for a proper visa we pay: visa fee, re-entry permit fee, visa extension.

For those who are not infringing Thai laws and cultural practices in any way, I don't see how we could be perceive as a "nuisance".

However, rationalism is not always the driving force in this part of the world... And I have to say in some ways that's why I love it.

Mahout Angkrit,

I get you are an E.U. citizen. Good to hear you haven't had any information consistent with mine. It would be interesting to hear from other E.U. citizens and where are the most friendly consulates overthere.

Till next note, best regards,

[cclub75]

I know it's hard to buy(wishing it stays that way). From a rational point of view I would say we contribute to Thai economy in many ways. By applying for a proper visa we pay: visa fee, re-entry permit fee, visa extension.

For those who are not infringing Thai laws and cultural practices in any way, I don't see how we could be perceive as a "nuisance".

However, rationalism is not always the driving force in this part of the world... And I have to say in some ways that's why I love it.

Mahout Angkrit,

I get you are an E.U. citizen. Good to hear you haven't had any information consistent with mine. It would be interesting to hear from other E.U. citizens and where are the most friendly consulates overthere.

No need to buy it : it's just plain common sense.

I laugh to see the discussion about the so called "friendly embassies". First it was around Thailand (Laos better than Cambodia ? Or it might be the other way around ?) Then some said that "anyway" with embassies in western countries, it should be okay.

But wait a minute. They start to change the rules too !

What the guys in Paris are saying is just a glimpse on the future.

Who we can be fool enough to believe that it's going to be possible to live in Thailand, full time, on "tourist visas" ?

Back to back visa exemptions would be very bad , but back to back tourist visas would be very okay ? ...

They started with the obvious visa exemptions, and the 30 days visa runners... First steps. Plus other and ever changing rules... But the will, the political will and the goal, is clear. The process will take time.

It's the frog in boiling water principle : it's enough to increase slowly the temperature, and the frog will see nothing bad coming...

We are the frogs.

Can you live in France, UK, or China with back to back "tourist visas" ?

Again, common sense. The trend is there. Thailand will follow the same path.

Edited May 13, 2007 by cclub75

[bruceboy]

If you continue to come back on tourist visas, don't be surprised when you run into trouble.

A "proper' visa is not hard to get, if you want to stay and have honest motives.

[Mahout Angrit]

If you continue to come back on tourist visas, don't be surprised when you run into trouble.

A "proper' visa is not hard to get, if you want to stay and have honest motives.

What A Tourist Visa is a proper visa. If he is not married to a Thai, doesn't have a Thai child, is not over 50 or working in Thailand what other option does he have?

As posters have said, immigration to Thailand may drift towards Western standards but at the moment it hasn't and so survival for today is what is important today. If the OP can remain in Thailand for another 3 years he can get a "proper visa" as he can retire. They may change the rules again but whats the point of worrying about what might happen.

The glass is half full and yes Charles, consulates in UK are still issuing triple entry tourist visas.

Edited May 13, 2007 by Mahout Angrit

[Fred Sanford]

common sense dont work in thailand, Jack

[Charles2550]

Cclub75 and Mahout Angrit,

So we are on phase regarding the trend... You wrote:

-"Can you live in France, UK or China with back to back "tourist visa"? The trend is there".

-"Thailand may drift towards Western standards...".

Spot on! The European Embassy official in Bangkok told me Thai Immigration officials here in Bangkok made their aim clear: ending with a scheme similar to the Schengen one.

As you said, I hope it's a bit too early to worry about this final aim right now. The lack of alternative options is getting stressful though as we feel the clock ticking...

To Bruceboy: you wrote: "a proper visa is not hard to get, if you want to stay and have honest motives". As Mahout Angrit said, I don't see any elegant alternative option. If you have an idea I would be more than happy to take it...

I don't mean to bother you with too much details about my life... Let's say: I am 47, not married in Thailand (no intention to do so for immigration purposes), no child and I don't work... And I have no intention to do so. I don't have time to work anymore... Done it, prooved myself, saved money and invested it.

Nowadays, I am not a rich man but comfortable enough to have a decent life without working. Lucky me! Free time rates more than money. This is the utmost luxury in my eyes.

Moreover, I need free time to practice motorbike-trekking in this part of the world. This is great way to know this country in depth, at your own pace. South-East Asia is a paradise for that purpose. And Thailand is the best base: regarding availability of parts, etc. Let's just add that my spiritual life matches best Buddhism. So, these are the main "honest motives" for me.

I know it could sound a bit weird but it's not a crime to seek freedom and independance as long as I am able to support myself and my passion.

I am not a burden in anyway for the Thaï society... It's all ll the contrary in fact. Alas, I don't fit anywhere in the current Thai visa scheme. Bad luck!

As a French poet wrote, "I make a profession of being a Tourist".I don't see anything wrong with that. Back to back Tourist Visas have been fully appropriate for my case for the last 6 years. No distorsion at all. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the flavour of the day anymore.In the meantime Thailand has become my home.

Another day I might go through the hassle of getting a Thai registered motorbike through neighbouring countries borders... I don't want to write a too long post or to bother you with this specific issue. It's enough to say that coordinating the bike "visa" with my increasingly restricted personnal visa is getting trickier and trickier. In that respect South East Asia has still a long way to go before it can compare to the E.U. and the Schengen agreement!

I appreciate the attention you guys gave to my posts and apologize for my poor English language skills.

Thanks again for sharing ideas and facts.

[tartempion]

Can you live in France, UK, or China with back to back "tourist visas" ?

Again, common sense. The trend is there. Thailand will follow the same path.

Well since it is the European Community I can go live, rent, drive, buy, work, retire in any of the member states (is it 25 countries now?) I had a Portugese gf around 1987 and we had some difficulties having her stay in my country because the rules said Portugal neded to be a ful 10 years in the "System" to benefit from all these rights (twas 1989 when all was ease I think)

That's the way to go: open borders.

That' not where Thailand is heading, clear to me.

I am on a retirement extension, but the re-enty permit and 90 days reporting rule is not a sensible thing which will keep the "criminals" out of the country. I see this all as load of crap from the authorities here and my feeling of uneasiness is increasing year by year and my comments on living in this country are regressing the same.

Shame to Thailand I would say

[bruceboy]

If you continue to come back on tourist visas, don't be surprised when you run into trouble.

A "proper' visa is not hard to get, if you want to stay and have honest motives.

What A Tourist Visa is a proper visa. If he is not married to a Thai, doesn't have a Thai child, is not over 50 or working in Thailand what other option does he have?

As posters have said, immigration to Thailand may drift towards Western standards but at the moment it hasn't and so survival for today is what is important today. If the OP can remain in Thailand for another 3 years he can get a "proper visa" as he can retire. They may change the rules again but whats the point of worrying about what might happen.

The glass is half full and yes Charles, consulates in UK are still issuing triple entry tourist visas.

A tourist visa is for tourists, many people misuse the generous Thai immigration system to stay on for years and years, I don't blame the Thais for cracking down on this, it's like the many immigrants in the UK taking advantage of our generousity back home.

I got my one year visa, work permit and business venture sorted - it really isn't all that difficult. Sunbelt are one of the firms offering assistance for this.

[Charles2550]

Bruceboy, you wrote: "A tourist visa is for tourists, many people misuse the generous Thai immigration system to stay on for years and years, I don't blame the Thais for cracking down on this, it's like the many immigrants in the UK taking advantage of our generousity back home".

You can't really compare "the many immigrants in the UK" and people staying in Thailand on back to back Tourist Visas.

We don't take advantage here of any medical or social services...And have no intention to do so.

It's clearly the other way around. Thai economy benefits from our spending here. In my case I have never made any attempt to work illegally as well.

Now, if an "honest motive" is either working or marrying, it's quite a narrow perspective on life. This is a matter of personnal choice. Nothing to do with honesty.

It may sound that many people "misuse the generous Thai Immigration system", as you say. Many do so because they don't fit anywhere in the proper system. I understand that an administrative system can't address the diversity of all individuals. Tourist Visas were useful to correct the rigidity of the system.

The crackdown on individual freedom is a worry. Eveyone benefits from diversity. However, as a guest here I don't blame or praise the local Authorities, I just respect them and look for a way to stick with legality.

Thanks for your advice about "Sunbelt". I doubt they would be able to renew the current visa system, though.

[marginline]

Bruceboy, you wrote: "A tourist visa is for tourists, many people misuse the generous Thai immigration system to stay on for years and years, I don't blame the Thais for cracking down on this, it's like the many immigrants in the UK taking advantage of our generousity back home".

You can't really compare "the many immigrants in the UK" and people staying in Thailand on back to back Tourist Visas.

We don't take advantage here of any medical or social services...And have no intention to do so.

It's clearly the other way around. Thai economy benefits from our spending here. In my case I have never made any attempt to work illegally as well.

Now, if an "honest motive" is either working or marrying, it's quite a narrow perspective on life. This is a matter of personnal choice. Nothing to do with honesty.

It may sound that many people "misuse the generous Thai Immigration system", as you say. Many do so because they don't fit anywhere in the proper system. I understand that an administrative system can't address the diversity of all individuals. Tourist Visas were useful to correct the rigidity of the system.

The crackdown on individual freedom is a worry. Eveyone benefits from diversity. However, as a guest here I don't blame or praise the local Authorities, I just respect them and look for a way to stick with legality.

Thanks for your advice about "Sunbelt". I doubt they would be able to renew the current visa system, though.

Great post Charles2550; I agree with everything you have written whole heartedly! Thanks for taking the time to spell things out.

[Charles2550]

Thanks Margineline.

Always good to remember that many of us share the same kind of "unclassifiable" status, not being misfits for that reason.

MahouAngrit brought good news when he said that Thai Consulates in the U.K. were still delivering triple entries Tourist Visas.

It would be interesting to have feedback from others nationalities within the E.U.

How does it work in Italy, Spain, Germany, Nederlands, Belgium, etc?

[cosmont]

Charles,

As my french lawyer advised me, You might try some consulates in the province (see below).

Marseille : Consulat général Honoraire 8, rue du Cargo Rhin-Fidélité 13002 Marseille - Tél : 04 95 05 47 00 - Fax : 04 95 05 47 11

Bordeaux : Consulat Royal de Thaïlande – Service des Visas

42, avenue du Président Robert Schuman – 33110 Le Bouscat.

Tél. 0 892 68 69 16 - Fax 05 56 08 67 92

e-mail : [email protected]

Visa sur place les mardi et jeudi et par correspondance.

Lyon : Consulat Royal de Thaïlande - 40 rue du Plat - 69002 LYON

Tél/Fax : 04 78 37 16 58 -

e-mail : [email protected]

Permanences : LUNDI - MARDI - VENDREDI le matin de 9 heures à 11 heures

The thai manager in charge in Paris that I met few years ago is far to be friendly and clever.

Good luck.

Ozzy

[Fred Sanford]

If you continue to come back on tourist visas, don't be surprised when you run into trouble.

A "proper' visa is not hard to get, if you want to stay and have honest motives.

What A Tourist Visa is a proper visa. If he is not married to a Thai, doesn't have a Thai child, is not over 50 or working in Thailand what other option does he have?

As posters have said, immigration to Thailand may drift towards Western standards but at the moment it hasn't and so survival for today is what is important today. If the OP can remain in Thailand for another 3 years he can get a "proper visa" as he can retire. They may change the rules again but whats the point of worrying about what might happen.

The glass is half full and yes Charles, consulates in UK are still issuing triple entry tourist visas.

A tourist visa is for tourists, many people misuse the generous Thai immigration system to stay on for years and years, I don't blame the Thais for cracking down on this, it's like the many immigrants in the UK taking advantage of our generousity back home.

I got my one year visa, work permit and business venture sorted - it really isn't all that difficult. Sunbelt are one of the firms offering assistance for this.

Bruceboy has his visa situation sorted and feels that ALL expats should do same same. When the day comes that he is unable to qualify for this visa for whatever reason, his attitude on tourist visas will change

[Charles2550]

To Cosmont:

It's the Lyon Consulate that provided me with the potentially worrying piece of information I have started this thread with. (No more 3 entries, and a potential 30 days only for the second entry).

I don't know what the situation is in Marseille or Bordeaux... I don't rely on their websites (if any) as they are rarely up to date.

If anyone has fresh news...

Thanks Cosmont

To Fred Sanford,

Bruceboy has his visa situation sorted and feels that ALL expats should do same same. When the day comes that he is unable to qualify for this visa for whatever reason, his attitude on tourist visas will change

I am with you on this one.

I am happy for Bruceboy that his situation has been sorted out.

I am not quite comfortable about the patronizing tone of his "advice".

Anyway, being confrontational doesn't help... Especially in Thailand!

Good luck to you, Fred.

[scotwumman]

If you continue to come back on tourist visas, don't be surprised when you run into trouble.

A "proper' visa is not hard to get, if you want to stay and have honest motives.

This does sound so simple to get "proper" visa therefore I hope you can reply to this. I am reading too many different ways to live in Thailand and really maybe due to being in early sixties not taking in everything. What is the possibility in my renting a place in Thailand with a view to staying long-term (have looked at the buying prospect and cannot afford with spiralling prices and no real chance to own and therefore pass on to family). Could you tell me what sort of visa to apply for to incorporate a long stay, my intentions being that having visited a few weeks at a time in the last three years I would like to take advantage of the sunshine, cheaper way of life and the (mostly) happy atmosphere.

[Charles2550]

You are on your early sixties... Lucky you! You can apply for a retiree visa.

Sit back and relax... No worries mate.

Good luck

[ovenman]

Two days ago, bruceboy informs us:

I got my one year visa, work permit and business venture sorted - it really isn't all that difficult. Sunbelt are one of the firms offering assistance for this.

But then a mere day later, the bottom appears to have fallen out for bruceboy:

How Do You Make A Living In Thailand?

I'm new to Thailand and the money is running out fast.

The business venture I've got now does not pay enough for my basic needs and eating off the street is a bit dodgy all the time. I need some answers too.

Apparently, a lot can happen in just one day...

[A_MIKE_U_LIKE]

Hi Charles as of this morning 15/05/2007 i received a single entry tourist visa 60 days the option to have a Quad 4 x entries was also available .I wanted to cut copy and paste some information from the Hull website but it is in PDF Format ..So at the end of this post i will just try and provide the link ..I think the confusion lays in a statement on the document that states reason for extended stay in Thailand is now at the immigration officers discretion ..My interpretation of this was that people who have run out of days on their tourist Visa and who want to get extended stay ..i.e move onto 30 plus 30 day or get a extra 15 days for tea money from immigration office may not find it so easy to do so now..( I could be completely wrong about this) .Also Congratulations to Bruce on his Business Venture and at some time i might try to do something similar myself .Although it would be nice to see a bit of solidarity amongst expats on TV something that at times seems to be lacking .I have heard of people on similar threads to this who have actually stayed in neighboring countries and sent their passports back by post to their home country and then got a Tourist Visa then re entered this way but all this seems Dodgy to me ..I hope this has been of some help >>>>>>>>> http://www.thaiconsul-uk.com/pdfs/Ab%20%20...tion%20Pack.pdf

[sriracha john]

Two days ago, bruceboy informs us:

I got my one year visa, work permit and business venture sorted - it really isn't all that difficult. Sunbelt are one of the firms offering assistance for this.

But then a mere day later, the bottom appears to have fallen out for bruceboy:

How Do You Make A Living In Thailand?

I'm new to Thailand and the money is running out fast.

The business venture I've got now does not pay enough for my basic needs and eating off the street is a bit dodgy all the time. I need some answers too.

Apparently, a lot can happen in just one day...

When selling T-shirts on Ebay, even one day with a bad internet connection can be catastrophic...

[ovenman]

Two days ago, bruceboy informs us:

I got my one year visa, work permit and business venture sorted - it really isn't all that difficult. Sunbelt are one of the firms offering assistance for this.

But then a mere day later, the bottom appears to have fallen out for bruceboy:

How Do You Make A Living In Thailand?

I'm new to Thailand and the money is running out fast.

The business venture I've got now does not pay enough for my basic needs and eating off the street is a bit dodgy all the time. I need some answers too.

Apparently, a lot can happen in just one day...

When selling T-shirts on Ebay, even one day with a bad internet connection can be catastrophic...

It can mean the difference between sorted and unsorted.

[Charles2550]

To A Mike U Like,

You are being very helpful here. You are providing us with a very well documented piece of information... Thanks for the link to the pdf file.

Extract from this printed form: (...)"The fee for each entry is £25. It is no longer safe to assume you can obtain an "extension of stay", such extensions are granted solely at the discretion of Thai Immigration and are given only in special circumstances."(...)

Being paranoid, people would focus on the "no longer"... That could be another sign pointing to the future and the Authorities intention to limit the lenght of stay under back to back Tourist Visas.

However, I don't try to stir up some extra fear. Not being in the most elegant visa situation, I am just trying to do some prospective. It would help to adjust, in case...

Wishing you a nice stay in LOS,

P.S.

As for Bruceboy. Being a Tourist here I can't advise him about business. opportunities. It's a good idea to spend time in Thailand first; learn the language, get familiar with cultural practices. For Western minded people, that could take a lot of time and many Tourist Visas! Then if one can come up with an idea and doesn't step on anybodyelse toes, try luck. Sorry, if I sound patronizing.

[CyberViking]

Extract from this printed form: (...)"The fee for each entry is £25. It is no longer safe to assume you can obtain an "extension of stay", such extensions are granted solely at the discretion of Thai Immigration and are given only in special circumstances."(...)

That's interesting. What's the situation on the ground? Has anyone actually applied for an extension lately? Any problems?