Poll- Do You Feel That Thailand Wants You Or Wants You Out?

[click2delete]

I've never once heard of one decent person with a decent income being denied a visa to live in Thailand if that person was really commited to living here. What's the problem?

Now you have - click here.

[The Skipper]

This is just going to be another thread full of swinging handbags isn't it?

Same as usual.................

Please go read some of your previous posts.

The forums could be more productive without all your self rightious, smartass comments. AGREED?

Why don't the moderators slap down the clowns that just post nonsense?

[cdnvic]

This is just going to be another thread full of swinging handbags isn't it?

Same as usual.................

Please go read some of your previous posts.

The forums could be more productive without all your self rightious, smartass comments. AGREED?

Why don't the moderators slap down the clowns that just post nonsense?

Because that would require five times the moderators they have now. If they decided to get rid of the smartasses and the whingers (whiners to some) it would be very empty around here, because what's whinging and what's a legitimate concern, or what's being a smartass, and what's telling someone to suck it up are all open to interpretation.

...and just because you disagree with it, does not make it nonsense.

Skipper, you look at your posts and it's an almost uninterrupted string of bitterness and complaining. There's people who are sick to death of that too, but it's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I just think that on most counts you're wrong.

(look at me... I've taken my own handbag out )

Edited May 12, 2007 by cdnvic

[jumnien]

I've never once heard of one decent person with a decent income being denied a visa to live in Thailand if that person was really commited to living here. What's the problem?

Now you have - click here.

By the tenor of his post I have no reason to conclude that this man is not "decent" in any way. However, I would not describe his income level of less than 40,000 baht per month as particularly "decent" in regards to impressing a foreign government that one should be allowed to live in their country. I know few countries in the world that would grant a permanent residency based on less than $1,000/month. The post also has an air of "farang can't speak proper Thai and goes to the immigration office without Thai legal representation because he is trying to save money and leaves the office confused and angry and tries to foster anger and confusion in other farangs to compensate". Unfortunately, a common syndrome in the land of smiles.

[richard10365]

It almost seems like a pattern is emerging.

Immigration regulations only seems to be targeting small groups of foreigners living here. But if you look at the big picture, it might concern all of us.

Present day changes:

• No more visa runs - eliminate some
  
• Higher teacher qualifications - eliminate some
  
• No more 400,000 in the bank - eliminate some
  

What's in the possible future:

• No more 800,000 in the Thai banks for the retirement visa. 65,000/month only - eliminate some
  
• Business/Work Visas requirement of over 40,000 baht paycheck/month or no visa - eliminate some
  
• Work visa will only be issued if you have a bachelors degree or higher - eliminate some
  
• Spouses are not allowed to own property - eliminate some
  
• Police Background checks for all visas - eliminate some
  

If you add up all the "some" above it probably equals a lot of foreigners.

If they did everyone at once, more of Thailand would complain. Eliminate them slowly and the Thai population that depends on foreign income will not notice.

Just because your not in any of the present day categories of new visa changes does not mean you won't be included in the future. It just means that you might be more alone than you think when your number comes up.

Edited May 13, 2007 by richard10365

[jumnien]

By the looks of the streets of Hua Hin and the villages of Isaan, the foreign population is definitely increasing. Rather than eliminating vast numbers of foreigners it looks like the new visa regulations, which encourage foreigners to apply for a visa only once a year rather than running to the border every 30 days, are making many foreigners feel far more comfortable that they have a long term future here in the land of smiles. There are a few that are caught out, but far to few to offset the flow coming in. That said, the few do make a heck of a lot of noise!

[taxexile]

I am increasingly getting tired of the arrogance and silliness of the Thai Government.

I don't want to live in Switzerland, England or the USA - the governments work all too well.

I don't want him growing up Thai.

i think you are very confused and you dont know what you want.

[IMA_FARANG]

I can only conclude from the actions of the Thai Government, that they want us to leave. Personally I hope we all leave and when I say we, I'm not referring to the whoremongers who come here for a week or two of quickies. I refer to the people like me who have moved here, married, had a child or children and wanted to make Thailand their home.

This country has made promises, contracts, and implied contracts with the foreigners who come here to live only to poke them in the eye at every stage. I am not 50 years old. I am not what Thailand would describe as a retiree but I was able to move here, get a visa extension based on my marriage to a Thai and now we have a child.

I have just found out in order for me to continue getting 1 year extension to my original O visa, I or my wife must go out and get a job to show the Thai Government that we have an income. I don't need a job, nor do I wish to spend my time working. I don't want my wife working either. Bringing up a boy is enough work.

I'm angry.

I came here on a pretext or a contract. The Thai government said if you're under 50 and you marry and support a Thai, you show 400,000 baht in a bank account, fill out our paperwork, and we make your life easier by not forcing you to make visa runs. Fair enough - I came, married a Thai - filled out their paperwork and got my extension.

Now they pull the rug out from under me and expect me to smile that stupid smile like a sheep getting sheared. I'm not a sheeple. There was a contract, there was consideration and there was agreement, and now they have violated the terms.

Most of you are probably here on a retirement visa so your ox isn't being gored. Do you care? Probably not until they come for you. When they change your requirement from 800,000 baht in the bank to 1.5 million or 2 million you might start bitching. At what price will you start twitching?

The retired man or woman on a fixed income doesn't have the luxury of coming up with more baht to put in the bank. Will you scoff at them the Thais renig on their promise?

It has been one thing after another. What or who will be next? Maybe you.

I voted NO, Thailand does not want Farangs out.

1. Please remember that Thailand is the country of the Thai PEOPLE, not only the Thai GOVERNMENT. Do you really think that the average Thai person-in-the-street really wants all Farangs out of Thailand?

2. I do now qualify to "retire" in Thailand. Yes, I worry that the rules will be changed later. Nothing is certain in life, and I, as always, will just have to adapt as it comes. I will probably retire next year.

3. I would have liked to haved lived much of my life in Thailand. it wasn't possible, I had to work outside Thailand in order to make a living. I spent a good 30 years working outside Thailand, traveling back to BKK once or twice a year to see my loved ones in Thailand, then leaving again to make a living for my Thai family. I didn't really like it then or now. It was just what I had to do to make a decent living.

4. For the reason stated in number 3; please, no sob stories about not being 50......and so on. Not being hard, but everyone has some kind of problems in their life.

5. Whatever happens, and who knows the future, I will still be trying to stay in Thailand, because the people I love are there.

Edited May 13, 2007 by IMA_FARANG

[soundman]

By the looks of the streets of Hua Hin and the villages of Isaan, the foreign population is definitely increasing. Rather than eliminating vast numbers of foreigners it looks like the new visa regulations, which encourage foreigners to apply for a visa only once a year rather than running to the border every 30 days, are making many foreigners feel far more comfortable that they have a long term future here in the land of smiles. There are a few that are caught out, but far to few to offset the flow coming in. That said, the few do make a heck of a lot of noise!

I think you are very much on the mark about the increasing numbers of foreigners applying for visa's, & visa extensions.

I have made an obsevation at Suan Plu over the last five years, one than tends to support this argument. It appears that the one year extension applications are numbered sequentially from the begining of each year. I put my application in on or around the 6th of April every year. In year 2002, my application was numbered 1780. In 2004, my application was numbered in the 3900's. In 2006, my application was numbered in the 7200's. This year it was numbered exactly 5000. Graph it & look for a trend!!

Also, in 2002, there was hardly any people or waiting to be done in Suan Plu. Last year & this year its been like a zoo with 2 -3 hour que's.

Maybe the amount of foreigners living legitimately in Thailand has reached a critical mass in the eyes of the govt. and as CDN posted earlier, market forces of demand & supply are now being excercised.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Naam]

Just because your not in any of the present day categories of new visa changes does not mean you won't be included in the future. It just means that you might be more alone than you think when your number comes up.

the same happens/happened in other countries too and one has to factor in these possibilities when planning for the future. needless to say that the present development is rather unfortunate for a number of foreigners who do not meet the visa requirements, whether it is age, professional qualification or financial status.

[Ulysses G.]

This is just going to be another thread full of swinging handbags isn't it?

Same as usual.................

Please go read some of your previous posts.

The forums could be more productive without all your self rightious, smartass comments. AGREED?

Why don't the moderators slap down the clowns that just post nonsense?

Who are you talking about? IMHO cdnvic is one of TV's most intelligent and sensible posters.

However, if you are complaining about Mr. Magoo, please continue!

Edited May 13, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[Mobi]

Excuse me if this has been said already (I have flick read trough all the 'handbag wielding' stuff), but while I have every sympathy with the OP, and anyone who wants to make a life here - especially with a wife and child - and is experiencing serious problems, then with respect, they should have understood what they were getting into when hey first came here.

I am a retiree, but I am under no allusions that I am guaranteed visa extensions for the rest of my life. Because that is what they are - VISA EXTENSIONS - for one year at a time, and no promise or contract has ever been made that assure me that at the end of the year the same rules will apply and you will be able to extend again.

Now, if you are a Thai in the UK, and you apply for residence, then if you qualify, you will eventually be given INDEFINITE LEAVE TO STAY, and if the UK authorities subsequently revoked that permission, then you would have every right to be very miffed.

But as things stand, the Thai authorities may tighten their 'one year' extension policy at any time they choose, and I fail to see how anyone can complain too much. You do not have a residence visa (which can be applied for but is extremely difficult to get), and you do not have any stamp in your passport which promises you can stay indefinitely.

As for raising the goal posts for retirees- highly likely - but past practise has shown that they usually 'grandfather' such changes for us grandfathers (respect for the elders you see ) - but who knows?

One day I may be on the slow boat home.

[click2delete]

I am increasingly getting tired of the arrogance and silliness of the Thai Government.

I don't want to live in Switzerland, England or the USA - the governments work all too well.

I don't want him growing up Thai.

i think you are very confused and you dont know what you want.

I would like to propose some remedial reading courses for you - it was as direct as I could write it.

My boy is Thai but I'll be damned if he will grow up to act like most Thai Men.

Governments such as England and the USA have thievery down to a science.

How might I help your comprehension?

[click2delete]

I can only conclude from the actions of the Thai Government, that they want us to leave. Personally I hope we all leave and when I say we, I'm not referring to the whoremongers who come here for a week or two of quickies. I refer to the people like me who have moved here, married, had a child or children and wanted to make Thailand their home.

This country has made promises, contracts, and implied contracts with the foreigners who come here to live only to poke them in the eye at every stage. I am not 50 years old. I am not what Thailand would describe as a retiree but I was able to move here, get a visa extension based on my marriage to a Thai and now we have a child.

I have just found out in order for me to continue getting 1 year extension to my original O visa, I or my wife must go out and get a job to show the Thai Government that we have an income. I don't need a job, nor do I wish to spend my time working. I don't want my wife working either. Bringing up a boy is enough work.

I'm angry.

I came here on a pretext or a contract. The Thai government said if you're under 50 and you marry and support a Thai, you show 400,000 baht in a bank account, fill out our paperwork, and we make your life easier by not forcing you to make visa runs. Fair enough - I came, married a Thai - filled out their paperwork and got my extension.

Now they pull the rug out from under me and expect me to smile that stupid smile like a sheep getting sheared. I'm not a sheeple. There was a contract, there was consideration and there was agreement, and now they have violated the terms.

Most of you are probably here on a retirement visa so your ox isn't being gored. Do you care? Probably not until they come for you. When they change your requirement from 800,000 baht in the bank to 1.5 million or 2 million you might start bitching. At what price will you start twitching?

The retired man or woman on a fixed income doesn't have the luxury of coming up with more baht to put in the bank. Will you scoff at them the Thais renig on their promise?

It has been one thing after another. What or who will be next? Maybe you.

I voted NO, Thailand does not want Farangs out.

1. Please remember that Thailand is the country of the Thai PEOPLE, not only the Thai GOVERNMENT. Do you really think that the average Thai person-in-the-street really wants all Farangs out of Thailand?

2. I do now qualify to "retire" in Thailand. Yes, I worry that the rules will be changed later. Nothing is certain in life, and I, as always, will just have to adapt as it comes. I will probably retire next year.

3. I would have liked to haved lived much of my life in Thailand. it wasn't possible, I had to work outside Thailand in order to make a living. I spent a good 30 years working outside Thailand, traveling back to BKK once or twice a year to see my loved ones in Thailand, then leaving again to make a living for my Thai family. I didn't really like it then or now. It was just what I had to do to make a decent living.

4. For the reason stated in number 3; please, no sob stories about not being 50......and so on. Not being hard, but everyone has some kind of problems in their life.

5. Whatever happens, and who knows the future, I will still be trying to stay in Thailand, because the people I love are there.

And you'll excuse me if I tell you that I think that is a load of <deleted>. If you loved your family that much you would have found a way to make money in Thailand or bring them to your country.

[KireB]

There is one thing for sure here and that is that nothing is sure.

A contract is as much worth as the piece of paper it's written on.

Thai governments and businesses are, overall, known to be unreliable. That's a reliable fact.

Keep these things in mind and don't invest a lot of money in this country, don't buy a house here but buy one back home and rent it out, don't burn your bridges back home and then ................... enjoy and relax.

Each year here is like a gift, but might be your last. Prepare yourself that you might/will have to leave one day.

[taxexile]

How might I help your comprehension?

i think that most of the problems you have or will encounter are down to your attitude.

[LoveDaBlues]

OP - what is your Nationality?

[Edonista]

By the looks of the streets of Hua Hin and the villages of Isaan, the foreign population is definitely increasing. Rather than eliminating vast numbers of foreigners it looks like the new visa regulations, which encourage foreigners to apply for a visa only once a year rather than running to the border every 30 days, are making many foreigners feel far more comfortable that they have a long term future here in the land of smiles. There are a few that are caught out, but far to few to offset the flow coming in. That said, the few do make a heck of a lot of noise!

Everyone who is under 50 years old not married not losing money with silly business here has no visa option at all (apart begging neighbouring embassies for a single entry tourist visa) and you state farangs now feel more confortable ?

Are you by any chance an Immigration officer ?

If I were you I would start worrying about your paycheck, once the full effect of recent xenophobic shake up for visa, property and investment is displayed and farang money will leave this country forever your government might have some troubles paying it.

[cdnvic]

One thing I've noticed is that none of the ones who have been here for 15, 20 years or more seem all that worried. Maybe a more long term view of things helps?

[palm]

I've been here nearly three years and I've come across only nice, friendly welcoming Thais.

Maybe its the people I mix with?

[Edonista]

Eliminate them slowly and the Thai population that depends on foreign income will not notice.

To my opinion a lot of Thai have noticed already (and I am not speaking just of bargirls, but of people such as stock brokers, real estate agents), and many others will notice shortly.

The problem is they have no tanks to show their disappointment so why should CNS give a ###### ?

[wolfmanjack]

One thing I've noticed is that none of the ones who have been here for 15, 20 years or more seem all that worried. Maybe a more long term view of things helps?

I know one guy that is a long time resident of thailand that isn't worried. He has been here for 25 years and the last 20 of those have been without a visa.

[PeaceBlondie]

click2delete, you're in a foul mood. You might read the forum rules about posting extremely negative views about Thailand and Thai people; you're skating the edge or you've already gone over (but it's still early Sunday and not many moderators are awake yet).

Sorry to hear that you're been hard done by, as the whingers might say. You come to a foreign country, find a woman, have a baby, and suddenly realize there WAS NO contract. Read your passport stamps - as Mobi'd'Arc says, almost all of us are just here on annual extensions. There is no contract in the sense of common law contracts in the UK and USA.

Good luck in your search. Panama might be nice; and Costa Rica. Venezuela appears to be turning into a socialist, centrally controlled, ugly government; not what you're looking for. I lived in Latin America several years, and prefer Thailand, for reasons different than you'd have. Thailand is not for everybody. Good luck on getting passports and visas for your wife and son. I agree that this may not be the right place to raise a child. I hope you have a lot of money saved, so you can get the He11 out of Dodge soon, since you hate living in Thailand so much. But don't expect your wife to enjoy tortillas.

[Dakhar]

Luckily, I am able to save the same amount of money I did in the states, so when the govt finally rules me out I can leave without leaving behind too much.

But I did take a heavy hit leaving behind a job and not being fully vested, & selling or giving away everything I owned to come to this "great" country.

That said, I am one of those under 50 that technically could afford to retire in Thailand but technically can not because of the rules. Now I could "theoritically" pay my wife 40K a month, but now we have to pay tax on post tax dollars. I am really not interested in doing that.

So now us under 50 that wanted to sled through life, enjoy life more because they did their best to save as much as possible as early as posiibel are being forced to work. Truth is, I don't mind working, if someone was to tell me.... "You no longer have to work," I still would work. Just not 14 hrs a day and 6/7 days a week.

Any how, the statement is very accurate. For those the the rules are easy to qualify today... those rules can be change any time, any day.

Maybe the will raise the retirement age too.... eliminate some more

[Edonista]

click2delete, you're in a foul mood. You might read the forum rules about posting extremely negative views about Thailand and Thai people; you're skating the edge or you've already gone over (but it's still early Sunday and not many moderators are awake yet).

Sorry to hear that you're been hard done by, as the whingers might say. You come to a foreign country, find a woman, have a baby, and suddenly realize there WAS NO contract. Read your passport stamps - as Mobi'd'Arc says, almost all of us are just here on annual extensions. There is no contract in the sense of common law contracts in the UK and USA.

Good luck in your search. Panama might be nice; and Costa Rica. Venezuela appears to be turning into a socialist, centrally controlled, ugly government; not what you're looking for. I lived in Latin America several years, and prefer Thailand, for reasons different than you'd have. Thailand is not for everybody. Good luck on getting passports and visas for your wife and son. I agree that this may not be the right place to raise a child. I hope you have a lot of money saved, so you can get the He11 out of Dodge soon, since you hate living in Thailand so much. But don't expect your wife to enjoy tortillas.

When will you high nosed long term visa holders understand that we do not hate living in Thailand, but hate to be betrayed by treacherous Immigration ?

Is that such a difficult thing to understand ?

Should I be happy to have invested time and money buying a condo here and now have to look for relocation because Immigration changed the rules only for their xenophoby ?

I gave money to this country both by spending and investing and I do not expect the red carpet but really did not expect to be sent away. I make them good and they want me out ?

Are they nuts ? I can just hope they get soon the retribution they deserve.

[calibanjr.]

It almost seems like a pattern is emerging.

Immigration regulations only seems to be targeting small groups of foreigners living here. But if you look at the big picture, it might concern all of us.

Present day changes:

• No more visa runs - eliminate some
  
• Higher teacher qualifications - eliminate some
  
• No more 400,000 in the bank - eliminate some
  

What's in the possible future:

• No more 800,000 in the Thai banks for the retirement visa. 65,000/month only - eliminate some
  
• Business/Work Visas requirement of over 40,000 baht paycheck/month or no visa - eliminate some
  
• Work visa will only be issued if you have a bachelors degree or higher - eliminate some
  
• Spouses are not allowed to own property - eliminate some
  
• Police Background checks for all visas - eliminate some
  

If you add up all the "some" above it probably equals a lot of foreigners.

If they did everyone at once, more of Thailand would complain. Eliminate them slowly and the Thai population that depends on foreign income will not notice.

Just because your not in any of the present day categories of new visa changes does not mean you won't be included in the future. It just means that you might be more alone than you think when your number comes up.

Basically my view, quite concisely put.

I'm taking a pass on click2delete's personal tribulations; to get back to the post title and the resulting poll, over 65% of TV poll-takers (admittedly a small sample, but extremely knowledgeable ) either say Yes or Not Sure(my vote) to whether the government is tightening the screws. That would say to me that the majority have richard's post in mind to some degree.

[LoveDaBlues]

Luckily, I am able to save the same amount of money I did in the states, so when the govt finally rules me out I can leave without leaving behind too much.

But I did take a heavy hit leaving behind a job and not being fully vested, & selling or giving away everything I owned to come to this "great" country.

That said, I am one of those under 50 that technically could afford to retire in Thailand but technically can not because of the rules. Now I could "theoritically" pay my wife 40K a month, but now we have to pay tax on post tax dollars. I am really not interested in doing that.

So now us under 50 that wanted to sled through life, enjoy life more because they did their best to save as much as possible as early as posiibel are being forced to work. Truth is, I don't mind working, if someone was to tell me.... "You no longer have to work," I still would work. Just not 14 hrs a day and 6/7 days a week.

Any how, the statement is very accurate. For those the the rules are easy to qualify today... those rules can be change any time, any day.

Maybe the will raise the retirement age too.... eliminate some more

Not likely. It used to be 55.

[Edonista]

I've been here nearly three years and I've come across only nice, friendly welcoming Thais.

Maybe its the people I mix with?

What does this matter with the OP issue that he has a child to take care but Immigration denies him the visa ?

Are you suggesting the OP he should "mix with other Immigration officers" that will be "nice, friendly and welcoming"?

[ovenman]

Maybe the will raise the retirement age too.... eliminate some more

Not likely. It used to be 55.

How does the retirement age having previously been 55 eliminate the possibility that the minimum age couldn't be returned to 55 or even raised to 60?

[RusT]

I have a Thai wife and we have a child. Because we live a lifestyle and have spending habits that are more in line with a Thai family (but still well over) then a farang family I feel I am unwanted by the Thai government. An earlier post was right: many farangs will do and pay whatever it takes to stay in the country and the government knows this and will exploit it as long as demand keeps up (and I wager it will).

The Thai government clearly believes (and so do more than a few Farangs it seems from reading this forum) that if you don't work or have x amount of money you are some kind of trash.

I support my family, provide assistance to my wife's family and live peacefully in the country without breaking any laws. Evidently that is not enough. I have to bring in 40k every month from abroad where it is earning good returns to have it sit idle in a Thai bank earning bugger all.

I would hate to leave this country but am starting to have serious thoughts.