Should I Be Blacklisted For Leaving During Probation?

[ktbgreat2]

Hi,

Yesterday I just quit my english teaching job... But I was on a 3 month probation, however the school is threatening to put me on a blacklist that will be sent to 200 school all around bangkok for not completing my contract... But I was on probabtion. They also said that they would call my previous school, which I have a great history with, and tell them to not give out future references for me.... Is this fair?

Please help me...

Thanks

[Etrigan]

See a lawyer?

[Laughing Gravy]

See a lawyer?

Whilst that is a good idea. I don't believe and know how they can blacklist you. They might put you pic in the Bangkok post and say that you don't work for them anymore. A name and shame exercise, but quite costly to put an add in the Bangkok post.

As for contacting your last school, again will they be really bothered? I would forget abut them, get a new job and think nothing of it. From the schools point of view if you don't want to work for them, then good ridance.

What about naming the school?

It is a teachers market at the moment.

good luck

[Scott]

Sorry to hear of your situation. I assume that your contract allows an "out" during the probationary period. If so, you might want to point this out to them.

It might be a good idea to post some more information; for example, are you still planning on working as a teacher? If so, what is it you don't like about the present school? I don't mean that you need to trash them, but just some brief information.

Where I work, we have a few teachers who have worked at other schools and didn't do very well. We've had pretty good luck with them-likewise, we have a few who have left on bad terms and are doing just fine elsewhere.

[PeaceBlondie]

One fallacy is that a probationary period is for both parties to the contract. Perhaps so, but I'll bet the contract, being written by the employer's lawyer, doesn't say that.

I'll bet the original poster had sufficient reason to quit, something more than just a higher offer from another school. But to be polite, you can say "I did not understand what you said when you lied about the school."

LIBEL is a serious crime in Thailand - a commercial crime. If you name and shame them, you may commit libel. If they put you on a blacklist, they probably commit libel. Just say "If you even try to commit libel, have the school's lawyer contact me for the name of my lawyer in Thailand, so they can discuss billion baht lawsuits."

What organization in Bangkok has 200 schools? They compete. Is there even a blacklist, or just a fairy tale about blacklists to keep us afraid of the almighty employers? In part, teflwatch.org was started because some school administrators do gossip and libel.

[Momo8]

What a knee jerk reaction designed to keep you cowered.I agree with PeaceBlondie although what the school is most likely to do if they take any action is simply badmouth you in certain circles not outrightly send your CV out to people and expose themselves to possible prosecution.What was the reason you left suddendly?

Is there an 'extenuating circumstances' clause in the contract somewhere? You can say you had to quit because of health reasons/family member sick any number of sob story reasons and let them know this but since you quit already going back to them now would only make them think you are s@$%t scared of what they would do.

I wouldn't worry about it,move on and laugh it off and put it down to experience.

[Ijustwannateach]

3 months is an illegal probation. Thai law takes precedence over any attempt to circumvent it by contract. I can't remember the maximum limit, but I remember that 3 months is too long (so the schools can't hire to to be on probation for a single term- they have to make the decision before the term is over).

Furthermore, may we assume there was no work permit issued? In that case, you never worked for them. To admit they employed you would be admitting they had illegally employed you.

That said, there is no absolute rule of law here. They can make some kinds of trouble for you. But if they are the kind of school that can't get work permits for its employees, it's unlikely that the central government cares what they think.

Additionally, I have never had the mythical "blacklist" confirmed for me by anyone I absolutely trusted. It's a useful tool for terrorising vulnerable foreign immigrants, though.

"Steven"

[Flow]

Threatenign staff is highly unprofessional and never the right way to go about dealing with employees.

I would have done the same thing as you and quit if I did not like the job. Thai employees would have done the same or well, they probably wouldn't have said anything. They would have waited for payday and then walked out. Don't worry about the threats. Is it the Thai Christian School by any chance?

Edited May 18, 2007 by Flow

[richard10365]

I wouldn't worry. Teachers are in such high demand that chances are schools will just ignore the black list. In fact, they will probably use it to try to contact you.

Of course, everything depends on if your fully qualified to teach in Thailand. If you are.....then don't worry.

[aussiestyle1983]

Just name them in the schools you don't recomend thread, we will know the reason why and im sure, if the school is run by Thais, they would never look on here to find out and if they did, they would have to link this thread with the schools you don't recomend thread and still work out who you are! Honestly, just name them in the other thread so we can all be aware. This type of behaviour is common and it seems that schools are still trying to call all the shots, even when they are desperate. Shame on them, they need to be blacklisted!

[alaina]

There are two blacklists, one is the Ministry of Education's and it bars teachers from getting a license. That one absolutely does exist, and a teacher who breaks a contract, works on a fake degree, commits a crime or has been found to have a criminal record can be put on it... but only by an accredited MOE school and only if the teacher works legally. I have met the MOE official who is in charge of the list and I know it exists. It's difficult, but hardly impossible to be removed from the list and if a teacher gives good reasons to the MOE for breaking a contract they can be removed from the list.

The other is between private bilingual schools, and I also do believe it exists but I have never seen the list. I know people who say they have seen it, and enough details have added up between their stories for me to believe them. From what I have heard, some schools list a reason about the teacher and others don't; the list is periodically circulated between school owners. It is up to the owner whether or not they hire anybody who is on the list and the reasons that are given are almost always taken with a grain if salt. It was two years ago when I last heard about the list and it is possible that it no longer exists, it's much harder to fill teaching jobs now that degrees are being checked.

Many schools will threaten a teacher who is leaving with all sorts of things but often do not follow through. Why schools think that people will want to stay after being threatened is just craziness. If a school finds out where the leaving teacher is going next, they will sometimes call and badmouth them. Most schools also now this is how it is here and don't pay much attention to it. Really, there isn't much more they can do but threaten you.

Thailand does have strict laws against slander and it might not hurt to let your former school know that you are aware of this. I also learned the hard way that the Western way of professionally quitting a job often does not work here. Most people either leave for a "personal emergency" or just never show up again. Employers seem to go easier on people who leave this way

[ktbgreat2]

Wow thanks for everybodys help!!! Well Ill give you few more details just for fun.... well the school was run by a Thai woman, but it was an International school. Although the woman who has been threatening me is a farang woman who recruited me... She claims to work for the ministry of education... and that she has to list me on this Black list for breach of contract.... But I know that I signed a contract with a 3 month probation.. even during interview she said " oh and we have a 3 month probation which is for you as well as for the school".. her words... and now ..well shes turned narky....

I never had a work permit as I dont have a degree and she said that was fine, and se was gonna take care of it... I was gonna get a 1 year non b visa or something... but they never set me up with a permit.

I did call a lawyer just to ask what are my responsibilies, and he said that because I waqs on probation and didnt have a work permit yet ..that I could walk away today and be done with it clean....

I told this woman that, and she said that I should send her my lawyer details so her lawyer can talk to him.....

Unfortunitly I left my copy of my contract at the school in my desk...and the day I left I forgot it...and havnt been back so I cant say exactly for sure if i should have given month notice, even during probation... do I have to give months notivce during probation? the police arnt gonna lock me up are they... or sue me?....for giving no notice?

Edited May 18, 2007 by ktbgreat2

[ktbgreat2]

Just another question... How will I know if I am on the blacklist.. does anybody know how somebody can see this.... Ill probably never actually know if slander is happening....

Id love to email this lady and tell her that if she admits to hiring a teacher without a degree, that would be illigal, so im safe... I think ill do that...yeh? how can she blacklist a teacher she hired..without a degree?isnt that admitting her wrong doing too?

Thanks again for all you smarties out there helping me!!! much cheaper then an actuall lawyer... specially since there might not be an actual legit case againt me or them....well see

[PeaceBlondie]

Just another question... How will I know if I am on the blacklist.. does anybody know how somebody can see this.... Ill probably never actually know if slander is happening....

Id love to email this lady and tell her that if she admits to hiring a teacher without a degree, that would be illigal, so im safe... I think ill do that...yeh? how can she blacklist a teacher she hired..without a degree?isnt that admitting her wrong doing too?

Thanks again for all you smarties out there helping me!!! much cheaper then an actuall lawyer... specially since there might not be an actual legit case againt me or them....well see

As IJustWannaTeach pointed out, you were never employed. If it's illegal for you to work without a permit, it's illegal for the school to 'employ' you. Besides, what farang woman is also going to be working for the Ministry of Education?

Mai bpen rai, don't worry. Please just get another job, and don't try to get revenge...now. It's best served cold.