Obtaining A Work Permit

[neiltrewin]

I was due to travel to thailand with a friend, we both have degrees and are TEFL qualified and planned to teach english whilst there.My friend however has since been sent to prison, can he still obtain a working visa in thailand with a criminal record?.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I was due to travel to thailand with a friend, we both have degrees and are TEFL qualified and planned to teach english whilst there.My friend however has since been sent to prison, can he still obtain a working visa in thailand with a criminal record?.

How long was he jailed for and what was the offence ? Also, what is his age and nationality ?

[Indo-Siam]

Doctor - I respectfully suggest that the English teacher recently sent to prison and his friend go find somewhere else to teach - I think I've heard enough to make that early "cut".

Long-term, I think that Thailand is slowing elevating itself away from the status of being the place where all the dregs of the world accumulate - Cambodia now probably fills that role.

But - I suppose I should have an open mind - let's hear why this sterling academician was jugged.

I can almost see it now:

Hi board. I'm a new guy. I want to go to Thailand and shag girls - oh, and teach English. But, first a few questions:

1. Does anyone know a good cheap place to buy AZT? How about a good tuberculosis doctor?

2. Will my prison tattoos cause me any problems getting a job?

3. It IS OK to shag 13year old girls, right? Or do they have age resitrictions? Like maybe 16 years?

4. I have three passports - all with different names - from three different countries. Which one should I use?

Roll out the red carpet............

Indo-Siam

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I think I know exactly what you mean Indo. The flotsam and jetsam of the world all rushing to Thailand wondering all the while why so many Thai hold them in such low esteem. The response will be interesting.

[lopburi3]

He may not even be allowed to visit; much less work here. Immigration Act, B.E. 2522 Section 12 (Aliens which fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the Kingdom), paragraph 6:

6. Having been imprisoned by the judgement of the Thai Court ; or by a lawful injunction ; or by the judgement of the Court of foreign country , except when the penalty is foe petty offense or negligence or is provided for as an exception in the Ministerial Regulations.

[neiltrewin]

In response to respose to Indo-sian and dr pat pong's post messages.

My friend went to prison for 9 months for GBH. It was his first offence, he is a good person from a good backround who made a mistake. He is not a bad person nor a pervert as some posted messages sugested. His age is 25 and his nationality is British any further comments are appreciated.

But please keep in mine that i am looking for advice on whether he can obtain a work permit or NOT. Not peoples stereo typical opinion of a criminal , nor does he need advice on whether what he has done was morely right or wrong as he clearly knows the answer to this already.

An answer to the following question would be also be appreciated "Does the thai embassy have access to british criminal record files" ?

[Digger]

In response to respose to Indo-sian and dr pat pong's post messages.

My friend went to prison for 9 months for GBH. It was his first offence, he is a good person from a good backround who made a mistake. He is not a bad person nor a pervert as some posted messages sugested. His age is 25 and his nationality is British any further comments are appreciated.

But please keep in mine that i am looking for advice on whether he can obtain a work permit or NOT. Not peoples stereo typical opinion of a criminal , nor does he need advice on whether what he has done was morely right or wrong as he clearly knows the answer to this already.

An answer to the following question would be also be appreciated "Does the thai embassy have access to british criminal record files" ?

Hmmm GBH - 9 months from a UK court, must have been some serious damage!! I thought these days the UK courts only handed out jail terms for really serious offences, otherwise its just a slapped wrist and a suspended sentence or 'community service'.

However in asnwer to the question, I do not recall seeing anything on my work permit applications concerning criminal records but I might be wrong.

[Indo-Siam]

9 months for Gamma-hydroxybutyrate sounds like possession with intent to distribute, not using.

So - I am in no hurry to see convicted western drug traffickers come here - but I will also acknowledge that once you've "paid the penalty," maybe the slate should be swept clean.

The only provision in the work permit rules is that you must "Never have been imprisoned for vioation of the Immigration law or the Working of Alien Act at least one year prior to the date of application."

And there is no place in the application where you are asked about this.

Immigration is the one with the stricter rules.

Cheers!

Indo-Siam

[george]

Immigration is the one with the stricter rules.

What does Immigration say about previous crimes in Thailand/in home country?

I can't recall they are asking that either?

Please clarify.

[mbkudu]

Doctor - I respectfully suggest that the English teacher recently sent to prison and his friend go find somewhere else to teach - I think I've heard enough to make that early "cut".

Long-term, I think that Thailand is slowing elevating itself away from the status of being the place where all the dregs of the world accumulate - Cambodia now probably fills that role.

But - I suppose I should have an open mind - let's hear why this sterling academician was jugged.

I can almost see it now:

Hi board. I'm a new guy. I want to go to Thailand and shag girls - oh, and teach English. But, first a few questions:

1. Does anyone know a good cheap place to buy AZT? How about a good tuberculosis doctor?

2. Will my prison tattoos cause me any problems getting a job?

3. It IS OK to shag 13year old girls, right? Or do they have age resitrictions? Like maybe 16 years?

4. I have three passports - all with different names - from three different countries. Which one should I use?

Roll out the red carpet............

Indo-Siam

Indo Siam,

I think you might be going a bit on the judgemental side. If he's English, most likely

he's been put in the slammer for drunken rubble rousing down at the local poob wid his mates watching England getting its arse kicked in a football match.

[mbkudu]

Well I'll shut up now. Seems he needs to grow up first before he does anything.

Pushing drugs at 25 isn't a good way to start in Thailand or anywhere for that matter. If he'd been busted in Thailand, he'd be in for a lot longer than 9 months.

Lucky he's got it down before in England first.

[neiltrewin]

Thank you all for the feed back.

Yes you right mbkudu, my friends inprisonment is a result of a drunker rumble out side a night club, not for drug dealing Gamma-hydroxybutyrate , what ever that it.

GBH stand for grevious bodily hard but thanks for your input indo-siam.

Thanks every one for there input

Further comments would be appreciated

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Reading your posts Neil, and seeing your spelling ability, I wonder whether teaching is really the way to go for you.

[BKK-Bangkapi]

In fact GBH stands for "grievous bodily harm"

Found with Yahoo at http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/bocsar1.nsf/pages/cjb10text

Cheers.

[Orion76]

Grievous Bodily Harm, means he inflicted serious injury on another person that required hospitalization, broken bones, serious lacerations etc.

The fact that he got 9 months indicates it was probably not self defence.

[DaveYo]

Hmmmm, given the fact he spent only 9 months is considered pretty light, meaning that is jail time only. Prison time is for 1 year or more in most standards.

My suggestion would be this, to not decide to come here at least minimum of 3 years. He would have to show to society some time record of being clean. In some countries they apply the 5 year rule or 10 year rule.

Considering that requirement, time wise, that pretty much says to society that you have stayed clean for those periods of time, maybe then perhaps they can look the other way and allow you to venture into the territory.

Also your friend can come to Thailand for 30 days without needing a visa. After that you will need visa's to stay longer.

In getting a work permit, they will check you for drug usage for the last 3 years meaning they the government will do the deep test on you and must have a Government Hospital certification attesting to such. Also your background will be checked by the police which more likely might show up. You also have to have a Non Immigrant visa valid for one year. Then you need to put money in the Bank, pay fees have pictures taken of yourself (minimum 3) and fill out application forms and have to also sign documents. From there if you get this far, then you submit your application to the advisor. From there the Governor accepts you or rejects you, plus you have to also register at the Ministry of Labor to get your Tax ID plus you have to also obtain a License.

Getting a work permit in Thailand is not that easy.

Daveyo

[Axel]

In fact GBH stands for "grievous bodily harm"

Thanks for the link, I was wondering what GBH might be.

neiltrewin asked:

My friend however has since been sent to prison, can he still obtain a working visa in thailand with a criminal record?.

Now, I am in my positive mood tonight. Apply for a visa, I feel the consulate will not check too deeply. Come here, but as you say, your friend being a good guy, be a friend and keep him away from too many drinks, and keep him away from 50 kg-Thais, lovely people, but when offended might know how to use the local martial arts.

Wether or not, his educational background will make him qualified for a relevant job is a different question.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hmmmm, given the fact he spent only 9 months is considered pretty light, meaning that is jail time only. Prison time is for 1 year or more in most standards.

My suggestion would be this, to not decide to come here at least minimum of 3 years. He would have to show to society some time record of being clean. In some countries they apply the 5 year rule or 10 year rule.

Considering that requirement, time wise, that pretty much says to society that you have stayed clean for those periods of time, maybe then perhaps they can look the other way and allow you to venture into the territory.

Also your friend can come to Thailand for 30 days without needing a visa. After that you will need visa's to stay longer.

In getting a work permit, they will check you for drug usage for the last 3 years meaning they the government will do the deep test on you and must have a Government Hospital certification attesting to such. Also your background will be checked by the police which more likely might show up. You also have to have a Non Immigrant visa valid for one year. Then you need to put money in the Bank, pay fees have pictures taken of yourself (minimum 3) and fill out application forms and have to also sign documents. From there if you get this far, then you submit your application to the advisor. From there the Governor accepts you or rejects you, plus you have to also register at the Ministry of Labor to get your Tax ID plus you have to also obtain a License.

Getting a work permit in Thailand is not that easy.

Daveyo

Jeez Dave. You are back into making it up as you go along. How long have these deep drug tests been standard practise ? Also, which Governor approves the work permit? That's another new one on me.

[Indo-Siam]

Ahh, interesting ..... I had GBH down as the drug GBH - which is the fairly infamous date-rape drug, and represents an offense that lots of people are spending time in prison for abusing.

So - now we are just talking about a hooligan. Ok, so maybe he's "OK" (?).

George - I understand that Interpol is working to provide a global database of criminal offenders - to be used for tracking terrorists, environmental nutcases, (ironically enough) football hooligans, and the like. This program was initially proposed at the 16th Asian Regional Interpol Conference, held in Bangkok back in 2001. I do not know how far along this program is now. I think it is now mainly focussing on big crimes - money laundering, terrorism, human trafficking. But - Thailand Immigration did activate part of it last August/September, ahead of APEC conference - to deny pre-identified political protesters access to Thailand. And - it worked. I think (but am not sure) that Thailand obtained cooperation from other ASEAN member states to pre-screen identities at departure airports for intenational flights headed toward Bangkok - and if you were on the "banned" list, you were denied boarding. I'm not sure if it also worked at land border crossings.

We'll get to see another example this coming November, for the ASEAN summit in Laos. As I understand it, big brother Thailand is specifically helping little brother Laos prepare for that event, using lessons learned from APEC 2003.

My guess is that as World War III proceeds, and more western countries come to realize that we have been fighting WWIII since about 2001 or so, global governments are going to increasingly coordinate their systems for tracking movements of individuals, and identities - and it is going to become much harder to have your past "disappear". But - that is probably still a ways off. First, they have to figure out that they are already at war.

Cheers!

Indo-Siam

[Digger]

Hmmmm,  given the fact he spent only 9 months is considered pretty light, meaning that is jail time only.  Prison time is for 1 year or more in most standards.

My suggestion would be this, to not decide to come here at least minimum of 3 years.  He would have to show to society some time record of being clean.  In some countries they apply the 5 year rule or 10 year rule.

Considering that requirement, time wise, that pretty much says to society that you have stayed clean for those periods of time, maybe then perhaps they can look the other way and allow you to venture into the territory.

Also your friend can come to Thailand for 30 days without needing a visa.  After that you will need visa's to stay longer.

In getting a work permit, they will check you for drug usage for the last 3 years meaning they the government will do the deep test on you and must have a Government Hospital certification attesting to such.  Also your background will be checked by the police which more likely might show up.    You also have to have a Non Immigrant visa valid for one year.    Then you need to put money in the Bank, pay fees have pictures taken of yourself (minimum 3) and fill out application forms and have to also sign documents.  From there if you get this far, then you submit your application to the advisor.  From there the Governor accepts you or rejects you, plus you have to also register at the Ministry of Labor to get your Tax ID plus you have to also obtain a License.

Getting a work permit in Thailand is not that easy.

Daveyo

Jeez Dave. You are back into making it up as you go along. How long have these deep drug tests been standard practise ? Also, which Governor approves the work permit? That's another new one on me.

Dr PP - My understanding is that all provincial work permits are approved by the respective state governors where the applicant resides or works. e.g in Pattaya its the Chonburi Governor.

The rest of DaveYo's message was complete drivel though.

[DaveYo]

Dr. PP. The information I just provided is just exactly what I have had to do over here in Thailand. No bull. All of this happen just recently in the past month. I am opening up some businesses over here, not working for someone. An entirely different ballgame.

And by the way I am not making this up in any way shape or form. Just telling the exact things that is happening to me over here. As to you Digger and to you Dr. PP, you are very much welcomed to pay me a visit here and see my lawyer and the Advisor to the Governor in person. They will tell you just what I have said maybe perhaps more if you understand Thai. Also these individuals are bonifide and legit in the eyes of the Government of Thailand. As to the Permits I am obtaining an Expert classification which requires that I submit genuine information of my background in the fields and line of work that I am going to do over here.

Also to my understanding they have changed and modified some of the rules as of recent regarding the process now.

Daveyo

[DaveYo]

Indo-Siam, you are pretty much right on the button in your assessment. Thailand is in fact gradually implementing their databases and tracking of individuals who are now in Thailand and also in the traveling sector. That is why I have indicated what is going on with me over here, of the process that I have to go thru in the business section.

Now I do not know what one has to go thru when hired by some company here in Thailand at the present time. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has just been hired to give us a few details of what they had to do. All I know is some of the rules have changed and has been modified to reflect according to their edicts and directives.

It is only going to be a matter of time when all this is put together globally and that this database really starts to kick into gear. Many will find it next to impossible to stay hidden. All these countries are providing background information on individuals (currently right now the most dangerous elements eg terrorists, or suspects that might be involved in cells of known groups etc, and once that is done then on to dangerous individuals with a heavy checkered past etc.

I would say on a guess only that this will all be in the works within the next couple of years or less depending on how fast they get their systems up and running.

Daveyo

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hmmmm,  given the fact he spent only 9 months is considered pretty light, meaning that is jail time only.  Prison time is for 1 year or more in most standards.

My suggestion would be this, to not decide to come here at least minimum of 3 years.  He would have to show to society some time record of being clean.  In some countries they apply the 5 year rule or 10 year rule.

Considering that requirement, time wise, that pretty much says to society that you have stayed clean for those periods of time, maybe then perhaps they can look the other way and allow you to venture into the territory.

Also your friend can come to Thailand for 30 days without needing a visa.   After that you will need visa's to stay longer.

In getting a work permit, they will check you for drug usage for the last 3 years meaning they the government will do the deep test on you and must have a Government Hospital certification attesting to such.  Also your background will be checked by the police which more likely might show up.    You also have to have a Non Immigrant visa valid for one year.    Then you need to put money in the Bank, pay fees have pictures taken of yourself (minimum 3) and fill out application forms and have to also sign documents.  From there if you get this far, then you submit your application to the advisor.  From there the Governor accepts you or rejects you, plus you have to also register at the Ministry of Labor to get your Tax ID plus you have to also obtain a License.

Getting a work permit in Thailand is not that easy.

Daveyo

Jeez Dave. You are back into making it up as you go along. How long have these deep drug tests been standard practise ? Also, which Governor approves the work permit? That's another new one on me.

Dr PP - My understanding is that all provincial work permits are approved by the respective state governors where the applicant resides or works. e.g in Pattaya its the Chonburi Governor.

The rest of DaveYo's message was complete drivel though.

I was thinking of Bangkok work permits Digger. I must have been a bit slow. I stand corrected. Ole Dave Yo has never allowed facts to affect his output of drivel.

[udon]

Ole Dave Yo has never allowed facts to affect his output of drivel

Hey Pat, don't hold back, tell us what you really think.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Ole Dave Yo has never allowed facts to affect his output of drivel

Hey Pat, don't hold back, tell us what you really think.

My inherent shyness has always been a cross to bear Udon. It holds me back something fierce.

[DaveYo]

Whewwwwwwww!!!!!!!!! Tsk Tsk.

Daveyo

[DaveYo]

Hey Doc, I see ya have over 8,500 posts on record. Ever think of taking a vacation so some of us can catch up to ya??????

Just wondering. I know Thailand is vacation paradise, was thinking that perhaps you can visit Tahiti???? Now those girls you can swoon with and be very happy for memories.

Daveyo

[prism]

The drug that IndoSiam is refering to is called GHB, not GBH. Pretty serious stuff tho, especially if you mix it with alcohol.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hey Doc, I see ya have over 8,500 posts on record. Ever think of taking a vacation so some of us can catch up to ya??????

Just wondering. I know Thailand is vacation paradise, was thinking that perhaps you can visit Tahiti???? Now those girls you can swoon with and be very happy for memories.

Daveyo

You keep taking extended leaves from posting Dave, otherwise I am sure you would overtake me.

[wolf5370]

Just to put things in perspective for those not conversant with UK laws.

Legal definitions:

GBH (Grievous Bodily Harm)

It is an offence to unlawfully and maliciously wound or inflict grievous bodily harm upon another person either with or without any weapon or instrument.

GBH (Grievous Bodily Harm) with Intent

Whosoever shall unlawfully and maliciously by any means whatsoever wound or cause any grievous bodily harm to any person, with intent to do some grievous bodily harm to any person, or with intent to resist or prevent lawful apprehension or detainer of any person, shall be guilty of an offence.

Grievous: Simply means 'really serious'.

This, in UK law, is more serious than ABH (Actual Bodily Harm) - though carries the same sentencing structure.

ABH (Actual Bodily Harm):

It is an offence to commit 'any assault occasioning actual bodily harm'. This offence is commonly known as ABH.

GBH is actually mentioned in the definition for both murder (UK version of US' Murder 1) and Manslaughter (Murder 2):

Murder:

Murder is the 'unlawful killing of a reasonable creature with the intention to kill or cause grievous bodily harm under the Queen's peace with malice aforethought'. Note: "reasonable creature" has always been defined by presidence to mean "Human Being".

Manslaughter (Voluntary):

The accused has the necessary actus reus and mens rea for murder, but there are mitigating circumstances which allow a partial defence and so reduce liability to that of manslaughter.

Malice Aforethought:

The mens rea for murder is defined as malice aforethought, which has come to mean either an intention to kill or an intention to cause grievous bodily harm.

PS: Actus Reus = "Guilty Act" - Latin; Mens Rea = "Guilty Mind" (Intent) - Latin.

It is a fairly serious offence in the UK, and is usually prosecuted when the defendant has used a weopon (including fist if trained (bexer etc) or foot if shoed/booted).

This was a light sentance though, so it is likely there were mitigating circumstances

The maximum sentence on first conviction for: -

ABH 5 years imprisonment

GBH 5 years imprisonment

GBH (with intent) Life imprisonment

Manslaughter (Involuntary) Life imprisonment

Manslaughter (Voluntary) Life imprisonment

Murder (mandatory sentence) Life imprisonment

Not making any judgements on this fellow, just helping with the legalease!