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[peter991]

I don't want this to become a flame-war along the lines of 'How Much Do You Pay Your BF," I just want to state what I have observed in rural Thailand.

I met my Thai BF in Pattaya. During the time he worked in the 'entertainment industry' he and his family enjoyed quite a good lifestyle. He left his job after he met me and was forced to send less money home to his family.

Despite earning good money in the past - his bank accounts show good money going in - he did not have any savings. At the end of each month he was 'rich,' a few days later almost zero baht.

The cause of this seems to be Thais are not taught budgeting in schools and they want everything NOW. Credit is freely offered in the village by local shops (the mom and pop general store, the local service station etc) because he has a farang BF and farang will pay when he next visits.

We have an established system after nearly 3 years - but when I asked him earlier this week is he wants to try for another visa to spend more time in Australia when his 3 month Tourist Visa to Australia runs out on 24 July - he is leaning towards going home and staying home.

There isn't much employment in the village - the only non-farm major employer is the local fishing net factory - which pays around 160 baht a day. He doesn't want to work there. Extending his education was suggested (and discarded).

We have done a lot of talking in the last couple of weeks and have both come to the conclusion he needs something to do full-time. Land is still cheap in Issan, so we are going to buy a farm. There is a lot of land available with Por Bor Tor 5 title.

I have given him two options: Work and help me pay for the land (I will match him 2 baht for every baht he puts towards the land) or I can buy the land myself - but it will take 18 months.

Suddenly - there is INCENTIVE TO SAVE. The change in him has been dramatic. No need to rely on farang BF for financial support.

I think that's what a lot of Thai people need: Incentive. A goal.

Peter

[farang prince]

I don't want this to become a flame-war along the lines of 'How Much Do You Pay Your BF," I just want to state what I have observed in rural Thailand.

I met my Thai BF in Pattaya. During the time he worked in the 'entertainment industry' he and his family enjoyed quite a good lifestyle. He left his job after he met me and was forced to send less money home to his family.

Despite earning good money in the past - his bank accounts show good money going in - he did not have any savings. At the end of each month he was 'rich,' a few days later almost zero baht.

The cause of this seems to be Thais are not taught budgeting in schools and they want everything NOW. Credit is freely offered in the village by local shops (the mom and pop general store, the local service station etc) because he has a farang BF and farang will pay when he next visits.

We have an established system after nearly 3 years - but when I asked him earlier this week is he wants to try for another visa to spend more time in Australia when his 3 month Tourist Visa to Australia runs out on 24 July - he is leaning towards going home and staying home.

There isn't much employment in the village - the only non-farm major employer is the local fishing net factory - which pays around 160 baht a day. He doesn't want to work there. Extending his education was suggested (and discarded).

We have done a lot of talking in the last couple of weeks and have both come to the conclusion he needs something to do full-time. Land is still cheap in Issan, so we are going to buy a farm. There is a lot of land available with Por Bor Tor 5 title.

I have given him two options: Work and help me pay for the land (I will match him 2 baht for every baht he puts towards the land) or I can buy the land myself - but it will take 18 months.

Suddenly - there is INCENTIVE TO SAVE. The change in him has been dramatic. No need to rely on farang BF for financial support.

I think that's what a lot of Thai people need: Incentive. A goal.

Peter

Peter, I'm sure the flamers will be on here forthwith, so here is an honest answer to your question of "How Independent is Your BF Financially?" My ladyboy was a featured performer in one of the cabarets when I met her. She stayed with the cabaret for another year until we made a commitment to be together. During that time she was making in excess of 50,000Bt a month. She could have made much more if she had wanted to work "behind the curtain." She decided to get out of the business because she was approaching 30 years of age, which is very old for the ladyboy cabaret business. She had been in the entertainment business for almost eight years and was getting burned out. I came along and I offered something that many ladyboy entertainers are dreaming for...a stable life with an understanding and loving partner. We have been together four years now. We split our time now between Thailand and the USA. I have two retirement incomes and a large investment portfolio so money is not a concern. Yet Irin is very conservative financially. This comes from being in the entertainment business for so long, and having in her early years a very unstable income. She learned to conserve her money in order to maintain her independence. I think Peter that you will find a multitude of variations in Thai people. Some spent every baht they get and have to scrounge for living money every month. Others can conserve their money and live on remarkably little money. It would be a mistake to generalize about Thais, because there is so much diversity of character and viewpoint. The fact that you and your BF have decided to invest in land together to build a future is admirable. You have made a very realistic proposal about how the investment will be handled. Now it is up to your BF to grow and mature into the wonderful person that you know he can become.

[ProThaiExpat]

I agree that generalizations are difficult but regional generalities have more validity in my view.

An Issan boy does seem to hold many of the same values as others from Issan, while a BKK person is much different. But again, generalizations are problematic.

My view after five years with my Thai Issan mate is that they definitely want to have their own "security".

Whether we like it or not, Thais who have relationships have friends in similar situations and even before they met us they were filled with information, good or not, about falang. If you mate worked in the "industry" he was awash in stories about falang.

One of the most prevalent generalizations about falang is the "butterfly" syndrome, that most falang are supposed to be afflicted with. Believing the sad stories told by jilted Thai boys about their falang "ditching" them for a younger boy, departure to their home country, fleeing from prior misdeeds to Thailand and being caught by police, etc. such stories abound, cause considerable insecurity in Thais and foster a need to have their own "nest egg" independent of their falang.

I would have thought that putting the house and land in your Thai mates name would be security enough, however, in their mind, the house and land is yours, even if in their name. A 30 year lease doesn't help them much now.

Their need for money is real, spendthrift or not, and so they need to have a job or if they devote all their time to your care and the care of your home, then some form of allowance, "salary" etc. is needed. I have noticed that when my Thai mate started up his own business, he was much happier as he had his own income stream and was not dependent on me. His "need" to suck money from me lessened considerably. Also, by running his own business, he gained much face.

So Peter, I submit that whatever scheme you work out with your love so he has financial independence will be only good and double happiness when his "face" is raised considerably in the local village by property ownership.

Issan people put a great store in owning land and those who own land are of a different class than tenant farmers, whether they work their own land or not. It is not only their security but an investment as in time it will appreciate in value.

I have changed my view regarding the falang concept that Thais in relationships are leeches regarding money. I now believe that they have a need for money and if they have a source for it, regardless from whom, they are happy. Thus it is the falangs responsibility to either have their mates work, choose one with a rich family, have their own business or outright support them with cash payments, allowing them to "feather their nests" in the process, as the fear of abandonment will always be there to some degree no matter how much fidelity you display to them.

[farang prince]

I agree that generalizations are difficult but regional generalities have more validity in my view.

An Issan boy does seem to hold many of the same values as others from Issan, while a BKK person is much different. But again, generalizations are problematic.

My view after five years with my Thai Issan mate is that they definitely want to have their own "security".

Whether we like it or not, Thais who have relationships have friends in similar situations and even before they met us they were filled with information, good or not, about falang. If you mate worked in the "industry" he was awash in stories about falang.

One of the most prevalent generalizations about falang is the "butterfly" syndrome, that most falang are supposed to be afflicted with. Believing the sad stories told by jilted Thai boys about their falang "ditching" them for a younger boy, departure to their home country, fleeing from prior misdeeds to Thailand and being caught by police, etc. such stories abound, cause considerable insecurity in Thais and foster a need to have their own "nest egg" independent of their falang.

I would have thought that putting the house and land in your Thai mates name would be security enough, however, in their mind, the house and land is yours, even if in their name. A 30 year lease doesn't help them much now.

Their need for money is real, spendthrift or not, and so they need to have a job or if they devote all their time to your care and the care of your home, then some form of allowance, "salary" etc. is needed. I have noticed that when my Thai mate started up his own business, he was much happier as he had his own income stream and was not dependent on me. His "need" to suck money from me lessened considerably. Also, by running his own business, he gained much face.

So Peter, I submit that whatever scheme you work out with your love so he has financial independence will be only good and double happiness when his "face" is raised considerably in the local village by property ownership.

Issan people put a great store in owning land and those who own land are of a different class than tenant farmers, whether they work their own land or not. It is not only their security but an investment as in time it will appreciate in value.

I have changed my view regarding the falang concept that Thais in relationships are leeches regarding money. I now believe that they have a need for money and if they have a source for it, regardless from whom, they are happy. Thus it is the falangs responsibility to either have their mates work, choose one with a rich family, have their own business or outright support them with cash payments, allowing them to "feather their nests" in the process, as the fear of abandonment will always be there to some degree no matter how much fidelity you display to them.

PTE, you make a very valid point about the falang "butterfly syndrome." I think that unknown to us, this has an underlying effect on many falang/Thai relationships, thus causing the "get it while you can" response. In the early stages of my relationship, I think there was a little of this. Of course, it went away the longer we were together and the greater mutual trust was developed.

[THAILIBAN]

I agree that generalizations are difficult but regional generalities have more validity in my view.

An Issan boy does seem to hold many of the same values as others from Issan, while a BKK person is much different. But again, generalizations are problematic.

My view after five years with my Thai Issan mate is that they definitely want to have their own "security".

Whether we like it or not, Thais who have relationships have friends in similar situations and even before they met us they were filled with information, good or not, about falang. If you mate worked in the "industry" he was awash in stories about falang.

One of the most prevalent generalizations about falang is the "butterfly" syndrome, that most falang are supposed to be afflicted with. Believing the sad stories told by jilted Thai boys about their falang "ditching" them for a younger boy, departure to their home country, fleeing from prior misdeeds to Thailand and being caught by police, etc. such stories abound, cause considerable insecurity in Thais and foster a need to have their own "nest egg" independent of their falang.

I would have thought that putting the house and land in your Thai mates name would be security enough, however, in their mind, the house and land is yours, even if in their name. A 30 year lease doesn't help them much now.

Their need for money is real, spendthrift or not, and so they need to have a job or if they devote all their time to your care and the care of your home, then some form of allowance, "salary" etc. is needed. I have noticed that when my Thai mate started up his own business, he was much happier as he had his own income stream and was not dependent on me. His "need" to suck money from me lessened considerably. Also, by running his own business, he gained much face.

So Peter, I submit that whatever scheme you work out with your love so he has financial independence will be only good and double happiness when his "face" is raised considerably in the local village by property ownership.

Issan people put a great store in owning land and those who own land are of a different class than tenant farmers, whether they work their own land or not. It is not only their security but an investment as in time it will appreciate in value.

I have changed my view regarding the falang concept that Thais in relationships are leeches regarding money. I now believe that they have a need for money and if they have a source for it, regardless from whom, they are happy. Thus it is the falangs responsibility to either have their mates work, choose one with a rich family, have their own business or outright support them with cash payments, allowing them to "feather their nests" in the process, as the fear of abandonment will always be there to some degree no matter how much fidelity you display to them.

a very good statement indeed.....

about what has been said about the need for an "incentive" before: Don't we ALL need any kind of incentive ? I think its a normal thing, though maybe for the average Thai its even more important than for others, to make them start thinking about "future" and "planning", as these two words are not very much known and loved in their society.....

[jdinasia]

I have said before ... and will obviously say many times in the future ......

My experiences in Thailand do not seem to be the norm.

My dating experiences were limited to a few students .. a couple of Drs ... a lawyer etc when I moved here. Until I met my partner, He's from upcountry <not FAR upcountry> and from a landed family but he's self supporting. I wouldn't care about where a guy worked <outside of the entertainment industry> but he'd have to work!

re: butterfly syndrome ..... most of the average Thai guys I know will NOT dte a farang that has been here for less than 2 years!

[cm-happy]

I agree that generalizations are difficult but regional generalities have more validity in my view.

An Issan boy does seem to hold many of the same values as others from Issan, while a BKK person

Issan people put a great store in owning land and those who own land are of a different class than tenant farmers, whether they work their own land or not. It is not only their security but an investment as in time it will appreciate in value.

I have changed my view regarding the falang concept that Thais in relationships are leeches regarding money. I now believe that they have a need for money and if they have a source for it, regardless from whom, they are happy. Thus it is the falangs responsibility to either have their mates work, choose one with a rich family, have their own business or outright support them with cash payments, allowing them to "feather their nests" in the process, as the fear of abandonment will always be there to some degree no matter how much fidelity you display to them.

Well put PRO THAI!

My guy is also from isaan. we've been together for a little over 4 years.

Have even done the marriage ceremony with him in his local village.

So yes, WE ARE A FAMILY.

He is totally dependent upon myself for support and all his needs. I'm very happy to provide. He was working in the entertainment industry when I first met him as a waiter/host in a karoak place, and is now happily retired from the industry.

As a family it is my responsibility (head of household-I think hehe)) to see to his security & well being, both now and in the future. He does have a job. caring for house, gardens, studying, & fussing over me. He's not given an allowance per se. At first I let him just take what he needed out of my wallet, but now he will ask if it's ok for him to take some money. He's never abused This system seems to work well for us, and I dont really keep track of what he takes.

He has very definite future plans. Wants to enter politics (pu yai ban and eventurally kamnan)and a burning desire to return to his village

to help the people, teach them to help themselves, start up cottage industries, demonstrate to them that with education anything is possible with a little ambition. He's the very first in his village to go beyond matayom 4, let alone going to university. A very positive role model, I think.

We spend hours & hours talking about his plan.

I ramble on too much, talking about my favorite subject, my b/f.

This just my 2 cents worth.

[FranklyNoMore]

I have given him two options: Work and help me pay for the land (I will match him 2 baht for every baht he puts towards the land) or I can buy the land myself - but it will take 18 months. Suddenly - there is INCENTIVE TO SAVE. The change in him has been dramatic. No need to rely on farang BF for financial support. I think that\'s what a lot of Thai people need: Incentive. A goal. Peter

So does that mean he\'s got a job now or he\'s not spending so much of your money?

If he\'s now working I wonder why you had to dangle such a big carrot in front of him? Surely being self sufficient and having self respect should have been enough for him to find a job. To many entertainment boys, once in a relationship especially with a retiree, are extremely reluctant to work. They start to suffer from lazy ass syndrome as they find the way to manipulate their b/f. Most of them are not qualified to do anything worthwhile and so find excuse after excuse not to work. Even earning 4000 a month being a waiter shows independence and a willingness to contribute to the relationship financially and if you match it im sure everyone will be a winner. Of course if they are taking care of you, like a sort of house boy, then why should they work? Infact you should be paying them an allowance as you are stopping them from earning. In my situation my b/f is totally independent. He earns a very high salary for a Thai and is extremly hard working. But he is educated and has had a work ethic instilled in him by his very hardworking parents. He\'s not from Isaan and I think Isaan boys, especially from poor families, have a totally different outlook on life, ie they dont have one.

Edited May 26, 2007 by FranklyNoMore

[peter991]

I think Isaan boys, especially from poor families, have a totally different outlook on life, ie they dont have one.

I think Issan boys have a very strong commitment to look after their family. Not only are you marrying them, you are marrying into their family - abeit an extended one.

Peter

[Krub]

I think Isaan boys, especially from poor families, have a totally different outlook on life, ie they dont have one.

What a very degrading thing to assume such a generalisation.

I have found Isaan boys and girls very focua on family life and very hard working for it also

Edited May 26, 2007 by Krub

[FranklyNoMore]

I think Issan boys have a very strong commitment to look after their family. Not only are you marrying them, you are marrying into their family - abeit an extended one.

yes I agree and this often stops them achieving something with their lives. IMHO theres a lot of emotional blackmailing going on in Thai families.

What a very degrading thing to assume such a generalisation. I have found Isaan boys and girls very focua on family life and very hard working for it also

Of course not all Isaan guys are lazy. I was talking in general about guys in entertainment industry. Once they met a farang they seemed to want to be kept rather than earn independently. Of course they are not very educated and find it difficult to find good jobs, even if they have good English, which seems unfair but thats just the way it is here. Degree = you are employable. no degree no job. . As for most of them not having an idea about life doesnt mean they are stupid. It just means they havent been given much help in life from their parents, schools or government but that should not be an excuse to help themselves. where theres a will ........You guys are so negative! Edited May 27, 2007 by FranklyNoMore

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi there

I have to say that i'm lucky in that respect - while most farang's in Thailand (or at least those that use Thai Visa) seem to be reasonably rich, that is totally not the case for me. And my boyfriend, with whom i'm together since 6 1/2 years now, is 100% financially independent from me. He has and keeps steady fulltime employment (ordinary office jobs, not "the entertainment industry" which he never touched). He too supports his famuily (mum, dad and drunkard brother) who live in Chiangt Mai. They moved there several years ago, they are of Bangkok origin. 1 1/2 years ago the situation became worse when his dad was diagnosed with acute kidney failure and has been a dialysis patient ever since, a very expensive thing in Thailand.

At times my boyfriend even supports me when i lose a job and it takes a while to find a new one, otherwise i take care of all running costs in Bangkok where we live together (rent, phone, etc) and he takes care of his family, mainly by sending money. I have met his family and stayed there for a month too, they are very nice towards me and they sure apreciate any help they can get (as when i outfitted every single light in their house with those energy-saving "Lamptan" electronic ballast thingies). They never make any demands at all, neither does my boyfriend - the other way round actually, he is a very good financial advisor for me since i from time to time spend money rather wastingly (new phone every then and when, computer parts which are not really needed etc).

Kind regards.....

your Thanh

[mullup]

I told mine, that I'm not interested in guys that don't work.

He very quickly found employement in a top hotel with the only assistence from me being the payment of his "employement security deposit" which I said I wanted back if he ever decided to leave this well paying job.

He now has the option to send as much or little cash home as he decides. He still tells me the sad (and it is sad) stories of how much mum & dad get paid. I explain to him that he can only do "what he can do" and shouldn't feel guilty that they still do it tough. They are (afterall) adults and have some say in their situation.

Bottom line, I'll never be his cash cow, but I'll always be there to help him advance himself and encourage his ambitions in life. (as long as he keeps a "respectable" job, and doesn't feel the need for another farangs affections).

[FranklyNoMore]

I told mine, that I\'m not interested in guys that don\'t work. He very quickly found employement in a top hotel with the only assistence from me being the payment of his employement security deposit which I said I wanted back if he ever decided to leave this well paying job. He now has the option to send as much or little cash home as he decides. He still tells me the sad (and it is sad) stories of how much mum & dad get paid. I explain to him that he can only do what he can do and shouldn\'t feel guilty that they still do it tough. They are (afterall) adults and have some say in their situation. Bottom line, I\'ll never be his cash cow, but I\'ll always be there to help him advance himself and encourage his ambitions in life. (as long as he keeps a "respectable" job, and doesn\'t feel the need for another farangs affections).

Makes perfect sense to me.

I think there are two groups on here, well maybe three. A group who has paid for their b/f\'s and a group who dated their b/f\'s oh and the group who are in relationships with trannies but they dont really count as they arent gay. Those who dated generally have independent working b/fs or have stopped their b/f from working to take care of them. Then there are those who paid and in general have to keep paying because it\'s extremely difficult for their b/fs to find face saving jobs. Now I wonder how many of them have persuaded their falang b/fs to build or buy land in their village? Probably all of them have tried.

[dukkha]

Have held my tongue until now....not always easy..I have been with Sam for over two years..when I met him he was working in a factory as a machinist, work that he had been doiing since he was 13..we met when he was 27 years old....work the maths guys...800 baht per month..not a lot, and over time 11 baht per hour..he worked from 8 a.m. till 5.00p.m...when there was not work he sold som tam, pok pok, from 5.00p.m. till 3.00a.m...each month he made 850 baht...not a fortune really, so as an Isaan lad he was not sitting on his arse as might have been alluded to in previous posts...my lover/partner was not a lazy lad....indeed from his work history quite the opposite in my humble opinion...after several weeks of getting to know Sam, I offered him to come and live with me in Hua Hin..this meant leaving a secure job of 14 years, yes you have done your math, as you Yankees would say...during that time he worked as an apprentice hair dresser for nothing, and at which he was talented, due to my infirmities we moved to Bangers to be near a decent hospital, he accepted the move..soon after we arrived here he assisted in a hairdressing salon for no money, at least he went out and looked for work..he went to a governement sponsored school to gain furthe skills in hairdressing, this was a disaster, the teaching ability left a lot to be desired so he despondently left the school...no light at the end of the tunnel at all..since then he has not worked, I pay all the bills, as I choose to, his lack of any post primary education does not leave him with any upper hand...YES I support Sam, I pay the bills but can I say, and not in a small way, each nano second with Sam has made my life the best it has ever been...He asks for nothing, although I know a gold chain or a diamond ring would give him much pleasure...but we fumble on with my pension from australia and some nawti teaching work that has come my way..am I supporting my thai partner, YES I am..do I feel abused, NO I dont..I.What Sam contributes to my life cannot be measured in baht or dollars..despite age and educational differences this is the happiest I have been in 61 years...call it what you like but lerve has no monetary equivalent..I have listened to all the rantings and ravings concerning farangs and their thai partners but I have chosen to get on with it....Life for us both has been more educative for me than any years I spent in any Australian University.....I remember little of any of the lectures, but I recall each second I have spent with Samran.....and then I guess each one of us has our own story...mine is only one in the City Of Angels where I met an Angel...a hopeless romantic, make you want of it..as they aptly say here....WOOOO CARES..Dukkha .

I told mine, that I\'m not interested in guys that don\'t work. He very quickly found employement in a top hotel with the only assistence from me being the payment of his employement security deposit which I said I wanted back if he ever decided to leave this well paying job. He now has the option to send as much or little cash home as he decides. He still tells me the sad (and it is sad) stories of how much mum & dad get paid. I explain to him that he can only do what he can do and shouldn\'t feel guilty that they still do it tough. They are (afterall) adults and have some say in their situation. Bottom line, I\'ll never be his cash cow, but I\'ll always be there to help him advance himself and encourage his ambitions in life. (as long as he keeps a "respectable" job, and doesn\'t feel the need for another farangs affections).

Makes perfect sense to me.

I think there are two groups on here, well maybe three. A group who has paid for their b/f\'s and a group who dated their b/f\'s oh and the group who are in relationships with trannies but they dont really count as they arent gay. Those who dated generally have independent working b/fs or have stopped their b/f from working to take care of them. Then there are those who paid and in general have to keep paying because it\'s extremely difficult for their b/fs to find face saving jobs. Now I wonder how many of them have persuaded their falang b/fs to build or buy land in their village? Probably all of them have tried.

[jdinasia]

Cheers Duk

We all make choices about everything! My choices wouldn't be right for you and vice-versa. I met my partner when I was 39 and he was 25. After several dates that occurred over weekends because I lived in HuaHin and he was in BKK there came that greatest of all holidays! Songkran!! We had not spoken about $$ at all but when he said he wanted to go to the south to an island I said sure but we'll have to work out a budget and go from there ...

Yes I was happily pleased when he said he could spend about 15k for the week. Over time things developed ... but had he worked for 7-11 instead of being a boss for a major company I think things would have progressed just the same

I personally feel that self-esteem makes it important for people to contribute financially to relationships ... I don't think it needs to be 50 50 etc ... just participate

[cm-happy]

I think Issan boys have a very strong commitment to look after their family. Not only are you marrying them, you are marrying into their family - abeit an extended one.

yes I agree and this often stops them achieving something with their lives. IMHO theres a lot of emotional blackmailing going on in Thai families.

What a very degrading thing to assume such a generalisation. I have found Isaan boys and girls very focua on family life and very hard working for it also

Of course not all Isaan guys are lazy. I was talking in general about guys in entertainment industry. Once they met a farang they seemed to want to be kept rather than earn independently. Of course they are not very educated and find it difficult to find good jobs, even if they have good English, which seems unfair but thats just the way it is here. Degree = you are employable. no degree no job. . As for most of them not having an idea about life doesnt mean they are stupid. It just means they havent been given much help in life from their parents, schools or government but that should not be an excuse to help themselves. where theres a will ........You guys are so negative!

FRANKLYNOMORE--"Doing something wih their lives"??? Clarify exactly what doing something with their lives means please.

as far as Isaan boys being lazy. HA!!! Lets see how long you would last working in the fields from sunup to sundown in the hot blazing sun. I've tried it and lasted 3 hours before totally crapping out.

Or does hard manual labor to help support family not fit into your concept of "doing something with their lives"?

[ProThaiExpat]

Dukka's post brought up in mine mind a distinguishing element in Falang/Thai male relationships that hasn't been mentioned.

Perhaps, if the falang is retired and on a fixed income stream, he would approach employment by his Thai mate differently than say a falang in his working years who is off to work every day.

I know when I was working for a living, my view toward working mates was much different. "I work, you work". Granted, contribution to joint expenses were apportioned by the percentage of each income had to each other, however, I never "supported" a stay at home.

Now I do, and while recently he is into running a family business from our home, it really is a part time avocation rather than a real job.

Like Dukkha, I was given the option of supporting my mate in his well paid hotel job (although he did have the night shift) or having him stay home with me and "take care" of me and be my companion, his desire. Since the income from his work was, in my view, so small, just the commuting cost would have halved that, I was more than happy to "pay him to stay home". This has nothing to do with the "sick buffalo" stories I got over the years, the financial drain of his family obligations or his perception of same.

He was 35 when I met him and had worked all his life, supporting his aged mother and often other members of his family. Hardly lazy.

Yes, now after five years together, I could easily support a decision that he return to work, providing he worked days, because I am well set up in Thailand and can keep busy and do, independent of him and his activities. His full time help in getting our house built, furnished and getting me comfortable in a very foreign country, I speak little Thai, was invaluable and almost essential.

So even if he chose to go back to work, his income would be far less than I can afford to give him from my pension, so what's the point. At 40, I don't think the argument that "not working is bad for his character development" is applicable.

I think we need to keep in mind the incredible difference in cultural attitudes between the West and Thailand when we speak of Thais motivation to work and our Christian/Judean concept of work "ethic". As my Australian son-in-law put it, "I work to live, your daughter lives to work".

My perception of Thais is that many of them work only because they have to and put minimal effort into their jobs, choosing to "live a life" where the importance of work and a job is a very low priority. This lack of work ethic certainly explains why an otherwise hard working Thai guy can up and quit and become a dependent mate for a well to do falang, if the opportunity presents itself.

[jdinasia]

but PTE ... what happens to your partner if things end tmw ... or if you die tmw? With no current work skills etc?

Yes my situation is again different but my partner works. He could quit and never work again and be ok for the rest of his life <with no support from me> However, working is important to him.

I worry a bit about the guys that give up work/carreer for a partner because of what could be the result if things don't work out!

[wowpow]

Everyone seems to be imposing Western values on their Thai boy. Make him work, invest in business, go to school to improve oneself. Thai attitude is 'I have farang no need to work'. Buddhism teaches Thais to accept their current life as it is, make merit so that the next life will be better. For most farm boys there is no way to improve their situation so they don't try or see it as an option. The one way out is LUCK which is why gambling is so popular. Big luck is to find a rich farang.

Most lads will agree to whatever their farang insists upon and if it sounds amusing will go ahead with any project. Often interest fails after the initial excitement and the project fails.

There are exceptions, of course, and it is rewarding for Western eyes to see their boyfriend make a success of something. I just say be aware that your friend may be thinking as I write above.

One guy I know is working in a Bangkok go-go bar and saying he had no money. I said " Yes but you have buffalo?" He swelled with pride and said " No I have fifty cows, we buy them small and make them fat and then sell them it is a very good business". Another go-go boy has bought a Garage repair business valued now over 1 million baht.

[jingjoe]

It seems we mostly fall into 2 categories.

Using children as an analolgy, there are those of us that will always find the money to give kids anything they desire, out of love, and self gratification (it feels good to gives your kids stuff).

Then there are those of us that have learned, and choose to pass on lifes lesson (irrespective of culture), that through toil, sacrifice and patience we can also get the things we want, and as a bonus earn a little extra self esteem as well.

My thai friend knows the rules, I have to work (I'd much rather not), but it has to be done or I can't get the things I want.

Ditto goes for him.

Having said that I can totally understand why retired guys with a fair income would prefer to have the option of keeping their b/f at home. I haven't seen anyone disagree that such a descision is for selfish reasons. When I'm retired and in that situation I'd also be a little more selfish.

I 'spose the question still remains, is it in his best interests to live as a kept man, or should you encourage him to appreciate the money in his wallet and embrace independance.

In some cases I reckon the answer is blurred by a purely selfish and insecure motivation.

[ProThaiExpat]

but PTE ... what happens to your partner if things end tmw ... or if you die tmw? With no current work skills etc?

Read my previous posts, I have covered the subject very adequately and answered your questions before you asked them.

jingjoe: You presume the Thai mate does not have an option. I don't think there is a retired falang in Thaivisa that loves his mate that wouldn't allow his Thai mate to work if that was his desire. On the other hand, if one has worked hard all his life from early childhood, and is given opportunity to retire at 40, surely that would certainly be attractive, unless your a work-aholic or programed from childhood into a work ethic. To use the word selfish in regard to retired Falang that have stay at home mates because they have given such an opportunity to the one's they love, is unwarranted in my view.

As I posted earlier, superimposing a work ethic on Thais by suggesting that they would somehow be harmed by not working is trans-cultural intolerance. To repeat myself, most Thais I have encountered are not driven by their culture to work, nor infected by a work ethic, which seems to be the concern of some posters who feel non-working Thais are being harmed by those who make it possible for them to pursue other things in life other than joining the workforce.

[jingjoe]

Agreed, it's entirely subjective. Though I'm not ashamed to have been

programed from childhood into a work ethic

, who didn't get a leg up along the way, but still had plenty of luck.

The silver spooners tend to miss out on the masochistic joy of struggle (although I would trade places anyday and give it a whirl).

Maybe I'm just jealous some cool dude didn't come along and offer me a life of leisure

Edited May 28, 2007 by jingjoe

[jdinasia]

but PTE ... what happens to your partner if things end tmw ... or if you die tmw? With no current work skills etc?

Read my previous posts, I have covered the subject very adequately and answered your questions before you asked them.

I bet I am just missing something ........ but I didn't see this addressed.

I also seem to know a different group of Thai people than the ones being generalized by others here. They all seem to have strong work ethics.

[FranklyNoMore]

i also seem to know a different group of Thai people than the ones being generalized by others here. They all seem to have strong work ethics.

Similar to me. Thai chinese certainly have different work ethics. I encouraged my bf to stop working and it lasted a month. He wanted his own money to do as he wants even though we have a business together as well and he could take from that.

I do know one farang who is being taken care of by his bf. Running a house is a full time job in my opinion and one should not begrudge paying an allowance for that. However he still encourages him to find work which is not easy to find because he has no qualifications and he has next to no motivation to find work now as he is being kept at home. Why would a guy want to suddenly work. As has been mentioned many farang pull Thai guys out of work. Many then complain that they dont contribute. Many want to change their bf to suit their own selfish needs.

[Scott]

My partner is self-supporting (most of the time). There is the odd times when expenses outstrip income and there's the need to borrow a few hundred baht here and there, but that's about it.

One of the problems in saving money--and it's not unique to Thais--is that SEE the money first. Most westerners who have retirement funds, savings funds etc., often have such funds either taken directly out of their paycheck or some other mechanism by which they don't actually get the money. And that is how they get started saving.

Until I was getting quite old, I was completely unable to save any money that I actually had. If I could readily get my hands on it, it was spent. I finally set up a savings account at a different bank without an ATM card and in two names. That money has stayed because it's such a hassle to get it out!! I am better about saving than I was.

There probably isn't a lot of difference between "us" and "them". The other factor people need to remember is the age difference. A lot of foreigners have quite a number of years of experience on their partners. You might need to think back to how you were when you were young and dumb!

[peridot]

My boyfriend has always made it very clear that he wasn't interested in me for my money. When we first moved in together, we agreed that he would continue to pay what he had paid for his own room, and I would pay the rest. This was about a 30/70 split. He often pays for small things, like bus fares, while I pay for most meals and big ticket items. He also comments about expense when I want to eat at a nice restaurant, or buy something that I don't need. I am happy for his guidance and reminders that I don't need this stuff, and that it won't make any lasting difference in my life. Now we both save money. I put more money into savings than I ever have, and he saves most of his income -- everything he doesn't send to his family.

The biggest argument we have ever had was after I found out he had money in the bank. He had told me when we met that he had no savings. Then I saw his bank balance one day, and saw he had a chunk saved. It took a lot of conversation before I finally realized that he had been saving gradually since we met. He didn't say anything to me because he was very afraid that I would think he was taking money from me. This seemed very convoluted to me, but I didn't yet understand Thai face saving. He was so afraid that I would have a false opinion of him that he kept his actions hidden. Once I let him know I was proud of his ability to save, and that it increased my respect for him, we both breathed much easier.

Since I learned that he is saving money, I have been happy to pay all of the rent. It is a small difference in my monthly expenses, and it really helps him to know he is saving money. He is the only person in his family to work off of the farm in Isaan, and therefore he is expected to pay for any major family expenses. I think it really makes him feel better knowing he has the means to do that now.

[RAMPAGE]

My boyfriend has always made it very clear that he wasn't interested in me for my money. When we first moved in together, we agreed that he would continue to pay what he had paid for his own room, and I would pay the rest. This was about a 30/70 split. He often pays for small things, like bus fares, while I pay for most meals and big ticket items. He also comments about expense when I want to eat at a nice restaurant, or buy something that I don't need. I am happy for his guidance and reminders that I don't need this stuff, and that it won't make any lasting difference in my life. Now we both save money. I put more money into savings than I ever have, and he saves most of his income -- everything he doesn't send to his family.

The biggest argument we have ever had was after I found out he had money in the bank. He had told me when we met that he had no savings. Then I saw his bank balance one day, and saw he had a chunk saved. It took a lot of conversation before I finally realized that he had been saving gradually since we met. He didn't say anything to me because he was very afraid that I would think he was taking money from me. This seemed very convoluted to me, but I didn't yet understand Thai face saving. He was so afraid that I would have a false opinion of him that he kept his actions hidden. Once I let him know I was proud of his ability to save, and that it increased my respect for him, we both breathed much easier.

Since I learned that he is saving money, I have been happy to pay all of the rent. It is a small difference in my monthly expenses, and it really helps him to know he is saving money. He is the only person in his family to work off of the farm in Isaan, and therefore he is expected to pay for any major family expenses. I think it really makes him feel better knowing he has the means to do that now.

I believe if a Thai bf has the ability to work, i.e. is not physically or intellectually disabled, he should always be encouraged to do so. Its not just about giving your bf some self-respect; its about your own peace of mind as well. Those farangs who insist on keeping their bf at home eventually bore of looking at the same person 24/7 and it puts an unneccessary strain on the relationship. My bf works very hard, full time, shift work and we usually only see each other on weekends. Our time together is precious and we make the most of it. I'd go crazy if he was in my face 24/7 even though we love each other more today (after four years) than ever.

[Brodsky]

"thai boys need an incentive".... it would be easy to rise to this bait.

personally, (i should add im single and heading out of thailand for a period) but... the guys i've dated here, and there haven't been many, have more often than not had higher incomes than me, in considerably more respectable professions! I wonder if somewhere they are talking about how i needed an incentive to work and earn more. who knows, maybe.

I think i've had a different perspective from many because im not into the bar scene. I don't mean this in an arrogant way (as some people undoutbedly do), but it's just not for me, and im far too much of an impatient character to really try and develop lasting relationships with people with whom i dont share at least a degree of language fluency. One of my faults for sure, and maybe i'd missed out on some treasured experiences. Any Seinfeld fans will know what i mean when i say that if a date doesnt at least "make the move to the wallet", then im not bothered!

It's an obvious point, but im going to make it anyway, not all gay thais are uneducated and therefore prejudiced against in the country and lacking real opportunities, resulting in their poverty being exploited. There are also, just like anywhere in the world, gay thais earning their own money and not 'seeking' a rich boyf (farang or otherwise).

[FranklyNoMore]

It\'s an obvious point, but im going to make it anyway, not all gay thais are uneducated and therefore prejudiced against in the country and lacking real opportunities, resulting in their poverty being exploited. There are also, just like anywhere in the world, gay thais earning their own money and not \'seeking\' a rich boyf (farang or otherwise).

I know a couple of Thai guys earning over 40,000 a month and both are seeking trophy boyfriends, someone they can show off. The bfs they seek have to be ok looking and rich. One dated a Thai who drove a Honda CRV and was a potential bf until he found out he had 10 million baht of debt. He was then dropped like a lead weight. The other is seeing a guy who drives a Merc. They wont entertain a younger guy unless its for sex. I do wonder where love fits into the equation but i dont think its high on the list. I think bfs for many Thais are trophies and it all comes down to the size of their bank balances, what cars they drive etc etc. It\'s all about the look but then again thats are very Thai buddhist thing, isnt it?!!!!