Sueann Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Does anyone have information as to the odds of an expat being hired as a lawyer/consultant in a law firm in BKk? What are the requirements and what will a good indication of the remuneration/salary package be like? Will a Masters' degree from say a UK University like Cambridge or Oxford help in any way? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldAsiaHand Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 There are a great many foreign lawyers working for the numerous foreign law firms in Bangkok under the guise of 'practicing foreign law.' Since most of these firms are of Brit origin rather than American origin, I would think your qualifications would be spot on. Now, before you ask, I have no list of these firms at hand, nor do I have any idea as to whether any of them are currently recruiting; but do some reseach on the net and through the usual sources. You ought to be able to compile a pretty good list of suitable places to submit your resume without a lot of effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkohler Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 For a list of firms, look into the yellow pages of thailand its a huge directory. Yellow Pages of Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sueann Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 Thanks everyone for replying! What I have heard from my friends is this: law in Thailand is a highly protected market in that for every foreign practicing lawyer, there must be a certain number of locally trained lawyers as well. Is this true and is this a problem in reality? Another thing, i can't speak thai (much less write thai) and i will think that my lack of language skills will be a fairly large problem as well. If this problem is circumvented, will I be right to assume that my chances of being employed will improve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sueann Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 dkhloer, i have tried going onto the thai yellow pages as well. but no goal, because i can't read thai. unless there's a english version of the thai yellow pages somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Talk to Tilleke Gibbins. There are a number of expat lawyers there and even if they can't help you themselves, I am sure they'd give you some advice. TEL 02 234 0821 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogmo1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Along with another American lawyer, I work as a "consultant" for six Thai lawyers and the Thai general counsel of a subsidiary of a major American corporation. The work and working conditions couldn't be better and the salary (although modest by American standards) is generous by Thai standards. With your qualifications,you may find employment in the corporate section as well as with law offices. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Talk to Tilleke Gibbins. There are a number of expat lawyers there and even if they can't help you themselves, I am sure they'd give you some advice. TEL 02 234 0821 Baker McKenzie is also worth a go. The ' real ' boss is an Aussie lawyer by the name of John Hancock. He was grandfathered and is a real practitioner in the Kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PvtDick Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 All the foreign firms will be members of either the American Chamber of Commerce or the British Chamber of commerce, or both. Both chambers have listings on their websites. Amcham is at www.amchamthailand.com I believe. You can google for the Britcham one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sueann Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 Thank you, everyone has been really nice in proffering really useful advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sueann Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 Hiyo, i have another query. Is it difficult for a foreigner to get a work permit in the legal profession? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PvtDick Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Hiyo,i have another query. Is it difficult for a foreigner to get a work permit in the legal profession? Thanks No, there is nothing especially difficult about getting work permits relating to the law profession. You will be termed a "legal consultant" rather than a lawyer, though, since only Thai citizens (or those foreigners who have been around long enough to be grandfathered in, like John Hancock of Baker & McKenzie and David Lyman of Tilleke & Gibbins) can technically work as "lawyers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sueann Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 does anyone have a fair idea as to what a junior to mid-level legal consultant can expect in terms of remuneration? some sort of a minimum amt or a range will be a good ball-park figure for me to look at! thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunbelt Asia Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 We pay one legal consultant 40,000 Baht a month plus a portion of 10% revenue sharing (which is divided among a team of Thai lawyers and legal secretaries.) www.sunbeltasia.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PvtDick Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 30 - 40,000 would be fair for a Thai legal consultant. A foreigner could initially command two to three times that, I would imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sueann Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 oh dear, that's a bit lower than what i expected! i'm taking home more than 70 K now, but I suppose that's after the conversion........... hmmmm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogmo1 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 30 - 40,000 would be fair for a Thai legal consultant. A foreigner could initially command two to three times that, I would imagine. I'd agree, plus perks, such as decent health insurance, 20 days paid vacation, 13 paid holidays, and for some, a driver. That's more baht and benefits than most junior Thai attorneys without graduate degrees receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PvtDick Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Just to clarify, that's baht per month...not dollars per year! I do know some higher-power expat lawyers on salaries of 500,000 to 1 million baht a year. These are lawyers who are skilled rainmakers, or with a proven track record in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkohler Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 dkhloer, i have tried going onto the thai yellow pages as well.but no goal, because i can't read thai. unless there's a english version of the thai yellow pages somewhere? Hi there... If you just follow my link again to: Yellow Pages you will find on the right upper side of the start page a link called "ENG" this means english. Just click on it and you have the english version in front of you... Hope it helps.. Cheers Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumitr Man Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Sueann: The questions you need to be considering: (1) will I be a local or foreign hire - local hire, your salary will be much less than as a foreign hire; (2) what area will I be practising - corporate and projects/banking - OK. All else, forget it. (3) do I really want to be working for a law firm in Thailand - bearing in mind that FF has just announced it will be closing down its offie here at the end of this year [see: www.thelawyer.com for recent article on this] But, to the question in hand, assuming you are a "local" hire, are not merely a professional support lawyer (PSL) but are a fee earner (on which point, you do not say whether or not you are licensed to practice law in England), you should be earning somehwere near 150k p.c.m. Question will be whether or not you'll be getting benefits, such as housing. As a foreign hire (i.e. hired overseas), you should be looking to get approx. 50 -70k (GBP) plus benfits such as housing. One note of caution - most international firms in Asia (not just Thailand) are not looking to hire. Times are tough. You'll have to be very special and qualified (i.e. licensed) otherwise you'll fall into the local Thai market. However, even here you really ought to be looking to get around 100k (bt.) p.c.m. - not the 40k that someone on here was talking about. Finally, keep in mind that if you are looking to relocate AFTER Thailand, e.g. you just want to spend a few years here, time on CV for Thailand experience counts for nothing! It is not a good career move... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumitr Man Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I should have added, sources to look at: Martindale Hubbel Legal 500 Asia Pacific Legal 500 Find Law British Embassy Bangkok website Other than that: English Law firms in Thailand include: Clifford Chance A&O Linklaters Norton Rose Herbert Smith (at least they were) Other noteworthy law firms Siam Premier Tilleke & Gibbens Chandler & Thong-Ek JSM B&M White & Case And a few others. All have internet sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paully Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Yes, Sueann, Sumitr Man's quite right (Hi Sumitr, by the way!): many international law firms are cutting back in Bangkok and in Asia generally because of the perceived lack of profit potential here. My old employer, Denton Wilde Sapte, an international English law firm, has decided to close all of its Asia offices, which seems a bit extreme. Partners and their short-term profits... As others have said, your best bet may be to try the leading international law firm here in Bangkok: Baker & McKenzie, whose offices are in the Abdulrahman Building on Rama IV Road near Silom. You won't be offered an 'expat' salary unless you are recruited from abroad and have previous experience and rainmaking capabilities to offer. You can try for a local hire, though: why not pitch your salary request to at least that required under the new rules to acquire a work permit: 60,000 baht a month if you're from the US or Canada or 50,000 baht a month if you're from the UK. I believe Herbert Smith also have offices in the Abdulrahman Building, try them. Apart from those firms Sumitr mentioned, Watson, Farley & Williams, an English international shipping law firm, opened an office in Bangkok a few years ago: may still be there. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sueann Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 Hi guys, I agree that now is probably not the best time to move into BKK, what with the 'exodus' of international law firms. Yupz, I heard that freshfields is moving away. But my move to BKK now or in the future will be due to personal reasons anyway. I'm from Singapore by the way, so I'm not actually called to the English Bar, although I'll probably try for this and mebbe the NY bar soon after completing my LLM. Thanks for the great advice. You all did point me in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sueann Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 what do you guys think - oxford or cambridge for LLM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumitr Man Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 SueAnn: Neither - go to LSE! Seriously, depends on what subject you are studying. Cambridge always "used" to be better at the Employment/labour law issues. Actually, for an LLM, overall I would have thought Cambridge - out of those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caughtintheact Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 You might also want to contact Bangkok International Associates (BIA), 17th Floor ITF Tower II, Silom Road, 02-231-6201 Khun Ronachai Krisda-olarn - he's an American born lawyer who has taken Thai nationality after being in the legal profession here since the 1970's. Usually if you call the above number and ask for Khun Ron, he will be on the phone in a few seconds....no questions asked and no secretary run-arounds. I do not work for the firm, am not a lawyer, but have known Ron for over 20 years. Straight talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbkudu Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 dkhloer, i have tried going onto the thai yellow pages as well.but no goal, because i can't read thai. unless there's a english version of the thai yellow pages somewhere? Click 'Eng" in the right hand corner. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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