Jai Dee Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 Many of you are insulting Prem, you should know that this is grounds for Les Majeste. Lese majeste is an offence against the "dignity of the sovereign". The Privy Councilor is not part of the Royal Family, only an advisor. As such, it is my belief that criticism and comments about him or his actions are not subject to charges of lese majeste. This is also demonstrated in the Thai press by way of cartoons and comics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flysiam Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I enjoy watching people debate a metaphor. Agreed, its interesting watching people make a mountain out of a molehill. Or perhaps I should say anthill Well, and i beg to disagree. In Thai politics, and especially such elated levels of society, metaphors do carry far more meaning than in the west. May i just remind you of another metaphor uttered by another privy council member that initiated huge turbulences - the one about comparing soldiers with horses... People in the privy council are neither stupid, nor do they casually say things they don't mean in public. If they would they would not make it to that for a commoner highest reachable position in Thailand. What a member of the privy council says in public should be noted, in all its subtleties. Why should anyone expect any less......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raslin Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I for one expect less from them. Privy Councellors are there to councel His Majesty not to advise the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSquare123 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 This is false. Privy Councellors are some of the most intelligent men in Thailand and the Thai people welcome their opinions. I would imagine that many Thais will understand their role in the 'anthill' of Thailand and work accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 Privy Councellors are some of the most intelligent men in Thailand and the Thai people welcome their opinions. I would imagine that many Thais will understand their role in the 'anthill' of Thailand and work accordingly. This is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I just can't understand how they do it--they advise a nation to do something and I can't even get a small class of students to do anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSquare123 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 minimum wage workers in the West are miserable. they think they deserve more money. they do everything with the attitude that there boss is a jerk. alot of you seem to be advocating this same communistic attitude. the advice being offered here is inline with buddhism. if his anthill ideology eats you up so much, just go back to your country where cynicism is the number one human trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiG16 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Privy Councellors are some of the most intelligent men in Thailand and the Thai people welcome their opinions. there are lots of intelligent men and women out there in the world....to me true intelligence is more about being able to yes listen to advice, think along, but it is EQUALLY IMPORTANT to be able to question the logic /ideas proposed, even by the so-called intelligent men the way I see it...even when it comes to ideas proposed by the King....and I say this with respect....before anyone starts.....I am a thai.....but the King himself has said it......ideas need to be tried out, sometimes they work, sometime they dont. nothing is perfect. and in some cases, people /government try to conveniently hide behind the Les Majeste law......simply by saying that it is the King's idea and hence cannot be criticised. this is misleading. IF the government plans to adopt a philosophy /idea initiated by the King, it is still the task of the government and responsible agencies to develop those ideas into concrete implementation steps. and these SHOULD and NEED TO BE subject to questions and debates as to the merits of the action plan government is accountable to the people, and CANNOT adopt any policy without justification, no matter whose idea the policy was borrowed off slightly off topic in discussing the government in addition to the privy council I suppose.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclub75 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I just can't understand how they do it--they advise a nation to do something and I can't even get a small class of students to do anything! Irony ? It's because you need to talk to them with... metaphores. Another advice : use the expression sufficiency economy, along with some other keywords like father and children. And last thing : put on TV some DVDs of old "Kung <deleted>" TV serie with David Carradine. "X-Files" or "The Invaders" could work too, albeit on a very different registre. If the unrest and/or the undercurrents prove to be still alive, then use your ultimate joker : show them your shiny Jatukam amulet. You'll see... you'll become a respected and an efficient teacher ! Afterall, this is what it's all about, right ? Effi-cien-cy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I enjoy watching people debate a metaphor. Agreed, its interesting watching people make a mountain out of a molehill. Or perhaps I should say anthill Well, and i beg to disagree. In Thai politics, and especially such elated levels of society, metaphors do carry far more meaning than in the west. May i just remind you of another metaphor uttered by another privy council member that initiated huge turbulences - the one about comparing soldiers with horses... People in the privy council are neither stupid, nor do they casually say things they don't mean in public. If they would they would not make it to that for a commoner highest reachable position in Thailand. What a member of the privy council says in public should be noted, in all its subtleties. Guess you misunderstood my post I seriously doubt there are many people here (myself included) who are capable of interpreting what Privy Councillors are on about. And any farang on here who claims they can would make me seriously doubt their validity. Several (plural) of us have had those same doubts for about a year now. btw... John K et al are right. It is enjoyable to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Privy Councellors are some of the most intelligent men in Thailand and the Thai people welcome their opinions. I would imagine that many Thais will understand their role in the 'anthill' of Thailand and work accordingly. This is true. I completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Haven't you guys been to any team building exercises? No society, team, group, community can function without defining and separating each member's role and position and the group hierarchy. Anarchism doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermin on arrival Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 (edited) minimum wage workers in the West are miserable. they think they deserve more money. they do everything with the attitude that there boss is a jerk. alot of you seem to be advocating this same communistic attitude. the advice being offered here is inline with buddhism. if his anthill ideology eats you up so much, just go back to your country where cynicism is the number one human trait. Oh c'mon Siam Square. So now, if we don't like what Prem says, we are communists or communists sympathisers who should leave the country? Please. It's interesting that you should equate the individualism that is really being expressed by American workers when they think the boss is a jerk to communism. Although I think it might be good for thais to work harder, if Thailand became a society of worker drones as Prem suggests here, it really would be the opposite of the Thailand which I believe that most of us expats saw and fell in love with when we first came to Thailand, a very relaxed/relaxing place to live. However, maybe that view might have been the result of a very limited understanding of the country; maybe it was relaxing and relaxed for us, but not for the average Thai. In the end, even though this acceptance of a hierarchical view of society might be in line with buddhism, it is not in line with a healthy functioning democracy. It is in line with various kinds of authoritarian states though. Communist societies express the same viewpoint that Prem seems to be expressing-work hard, know your place in society and don't question your leaders. Please don't infer from this that I'm accusing Prem of being a communist. Edited June 5, 2007 by vermin on arrival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Traveller Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 To add some context:- New ant museum offers a lesson in ethics and order in modern life APINYA WIPATAYOTIN Thailand's first ant museum is now open to visitors who are curious about how the ''super-organism'' can teach humans lessons about life. ''An ant's nature is simple but full of order and ethics, which human beings can learn from,'' said Ant Museum curator Decha Wiwatwittaya. ... Privy councillor Amphon Senanarong, who presided over the opening, said unity was a very important trait in the tiny creature from which Thai people can learn a lot. ''An ant colony is a super-organism, which has inherited this amazing behaviour from generation to generation for a hundred million years,'' the privy councillor said in a speech entitled Ant Management and Sufficiency Economy. ''If Thais perform our duty and hold on to morality as firmly as do the ants, our country will be filled with happiness and development,'' he said. ... Ants & Thailand Bangkok Post Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Traveller Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 (edited) Further to above, whilst appreciating the power of metaphor, the reality is that the supposed ant 'ethic's 'morality' etc. all come from simple algebra, there is no intelligence. What is perceived as such is the interaction of simple almost binary functions, light/dark, heat/cold, sweet/salt. Sorry but as a human with the ability to process considerably more data then that, I would be somewhat insulted by it being suggested that my role model should be such a creature. The culture {or super-organism} of ants is as I have already said is an emergent property, in other words an illusion. Regards /edit formatting + clarification// Edited June 5, 2007 by A_Traveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Guess you misunderstood my post I seriously doubt there are many people here (myself included) who are capable of interpreting what Privy Councillors are on about. And any farang on here who claims they can would make me seriously doubt their validity. It's not that difficult to decipher a lot of their public statements, given their personal histories, and which views they represent (there is a rather wide range of individuals sitting there - ranging from slightly progressive conservatives to extreme right wing relics of Thailand's dark ages). There is more than enough literature available on Thai political history that goes into those subjects. Public statements are there to be understood, and not the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermin on arrival Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 There is more than enough literature available on Thai political history that goes into those subjects. ColPyat, Could you please reference some of these books for me? I would be interested in reading them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larvidchr Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Privy Councellors are some of the most intelligent men in Thailand and the Thai people welcome their opinions. I would imagine that many Thais will understand their role in the 'anthill' of Thailand and work accordingly. This is true. I completely agree. Please dont take this to serius. I have always wantet to be intelligent , it has been an uphill struggle, now I think I se the light , I thought there was more to it, but maby I was wrong so here goes: I want all TV members to be like Bees, fly out and collect nectar, spread pollen ewerywhere you go for future richer harvests, circulate to show others where to get nectar, and when you have collected enough, PM me for an account number to deposit the honey. Now how about that then, room for one more in the privi counsel Lets not take life to serius, we wont get out alive anyway Have a real nice day everybody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 It wasn't Prem who was talking about ants, and even if it was, there was an analogy. I supposed majority of posters here understand what analogy is, and also understand that any analogy has its limits. They are not asking us to grow extra pair of legs, everybody accepts that, but for some reason people think that they are asking us to determine everyone's position from their birth alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 but for some reason people think that they are asking us to determine everyone's position from their birth alone. now that that's out there , perhaps you'd like to take a stab at disproving it , using ants in your explanation ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsears Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I think I finally realized the problem here. It was what siamsquare123 said about the government being the father. This is why politics don't work here. The government is not a father or an authoritative figure. The people are the father and the authoritative figure. The government is the child, the representative of the people. The government is supposed to do what the people tell it to do. If it doesn't, it is then punished as in not re-elected. The problem is that the governments that have been in power here have felt that they are in power over the people instead of being the puppet of the people as it is supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahmburgers Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Arguably the world's foremost authority on ants (he's been studying them for decades, and written encyclopaedic books about them - though I can't remember the guy's name) - he says we have to be cautious about being to quick to find similarities between ants and humans. He did, however, concede one glaring similartiy: ants are always ready to fight neighboring ants, and people do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 After the govt is selected (elected), it IS the father and the mother and the baby sitter. That's the definition of the govt. In democracies people can change their governments, that's all, it doesn't mean they can live without the governments, or that they can ignore them. The government and the autority and all its weight is always there, selected, elected, appointed - whatever. Mid, I don't quite undestand your request - you want me to disprove that the Privy Councilor didn't mean that people's destiny should be predermined from their birth, like that of ants? He certainly didn't say that, ask posters who came up with this idea, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafval Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 doesnt really make much difference what these people say, altho I guess they get paid extremely well and its an excuse for there existence, some kind of pragmatism rather then poetry might help the people of Thailand, but if he was opening an ant museum I guess it was an ok thing to suggest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafval Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 democracies didnt happen by chance, they happened because people revolted against dictatorships and if the people dont keep the preasure on the government thats what they will revert back to After the govt is selected (elected), it IS the father and the mother and the baby sitter. That's the definition of the govt. In democracies people can change their governments, that's all, it doesn't mean they can live without the governments, or that they can ignore them. The government and the autority and all its weight is always there, selected, elected, appointed - whatever. Mid, I don't quite undestand your request - you want me to disprove that the Privy Councilor didn't mean that people's destiny should be predermined from their birth, like that of ants? He certainly didn't say that, ask posters who came up with this idea, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 After the govt is selected (elected), it IS the father and the mother and the baby sitter. That's the definition of the govt. Again you are making up a definition as you go. Any link from a reputable source that supports this rather fascinating definition of a democratically elected government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSquare123 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I think I finally realized the problem here. It was what siamsquare123 said about the government being the father. This is why politics don't work here. The government is not a father or an authoritative figure. The people are the father and the authoritative figure. The government is the child, the representative of the people. The government is supposed to do what the people tell it to do. If it doesn't, it is then punished as in not re-elected. The problem is that the governments that have been in power here have felt that they are in power over the people instead of being the puppet of the people as it is supposed to be. is there really democracy in america or any other western country? or is it just a choice of which candidate is the lesser evil? as simon and garfunkel said "anyway you look at it you lose. the only difference between the west is the polititions are better at hiding their corruption. regardless, the privy council and those in power definitely do not agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 (edited) I think I finally realized the problem here. It was what siamsquare123 said about the government being the father. This is why politics don't work here. The government is not a father or an authoritative figure. The people are the father and the authoritative figure. The government is the child, the representative of the people. The government is supposed to do what the people tell it to do. If it doesn't, it is then punished as in not re-elected. The problem is that the governments that have been in power here have felt that they are in power over the people instead of being the puppet of the people as it is supposed to be. is there really democracy in america or any other western country? or is it just a choice of which candidate is the lesser evil? as simon and garfunkel said "anyway you look at it you lose. the only difference between the west is the polititions are better at hiding their corruption. regardless, the privy council and those in power definitely do not agree with you. Would it be safe to say that you have no use for democracy as it is practiced in the west- as well as the east? If that's the case, what form of government would you think is best suited to modern mass societies? Edited June 5, 2007 by blaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSquare123 Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I think I finally realized the problem here. It was what siamsquare123 said about the government being the father. This is why politics don't work here. The government is not a father or an authoritative figure. The people are the father and the authoritative figure. The government is the child, the representative of the people. The government is supposed to do what the people tell it to do. If it doesn't, it is then punished as in not re-elected. The problem is that the governments that have been in power here have felt that they are in power over the people instead of being the puppet of the people as it is supposed to be. is there really democracy in america or any other western country? or is it just a choice of which candidate is the lesser evil? as simon and garfunkel said "anyway you look at it you lose. the only difference between the west is the polititions are better at hiding their corruption. regardless, the privy council and those in power definitely do not agree with you. Would it be safe to say that you have no use for democracy as it is practiced in the west- as well as the east? If that's the case, what form of government would you think is best suited to modern mass societies? i think thailand's system works well. whenever a govenrment gets too powerful, they sweep in and start things over. for the most part, things are out in the open in thailand. i guess i disagree that democratic elections are a fundamental part of a democracy. in the usa you get the choice between person 1 and person 2. some choice that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tettyan Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 i think thailand's system works well. whenever a govenrment gets too powerful, they sweep in and start things over. for the most part, things are out in the open in thailand. i guess i disagree that democratic elections are a fundamental part of a democracy. Fascinating conclusion. Is that why things work here so well? How there's no corruption? How Thailand is poorer than Malaysia and most of Latin America? How income disparaties are so wide? How the masses of the population are poorly educated? How the ones who do have a chance at a decent education also cheat their way through the system. I once was blind to the harsh realities of this country. That is, until I saw Thaksin sweep to power. The current system that you admire is what led to Thaksin in the first place. And there will be more Thaksin's in the future ... and we might not get as luck with them. As you said yourself, it's about more than just the candidates, the men. The whole system is rotton. The coup will only perpetuate this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
.thumb.jpg.bc523c85a8d558dbc282dca7a2e602c9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now