Thai Higher-ups Want To Cull Out Undesirables -

[bendix]

How long is it before someone comes up with the classic line: "Thailand needs farangs to survive economically"?

[ThaiGoon]

How long is it before someone comes up with the classic line: "Thailand needs farangs to survive economically"?

Or "Houses in Thailand aren't getting sold because farangs are leaving the country." (Apparently only farangs and a very very small number of Thais can afford houses.)

[calibanjr.]

I think the core reason for the reforms, was to clamp down on the ability of undesirables - read terrorists - to basically come and stay in Thailand indefinetly. Hambali was a huge wake up call to the lax system of immigration governance. Whatever you say about transperency and democracy here, the last thing the Thai goverment wants is their country to be a haven or easy hiding ground for terrorrists and other criminals. The geopolitical situation in SE Asia has changed...Indonesia and the relative instability there is a huge concern to all its neighbours.

I think the second reason was to formalise the system some more. Thailand had perpetual visa runners who while not breaking the law, were definetly undermining the spirit of the law. For the most part, any nation needs to know who is within its borders and for what reason - especially long termers. Visa running meant that a significant minority of people were basically out of sight of the Thai govenment. In a country where everyone has an ID card and a permanent house registration, and any legitimate long term stayer has to report every 90 days, under the radar visa runners were clearly unacceptable.

EVERY level of Visa and/or VOA registers you with the Thai computer system as in the country. The immigration white card number is attached to your passport number and Imm. knows of your presence in the country, even if you do infinite 30-day exemptions. Is there any time you can check in/check out without a valid passport and an immigration card filled out?

Just addressing this one point. If you entered the country at a border, rather than swim in, they know you are here, if they care to run a report.

[gordonbennett]

I don't agree with those who say these new laws are targeted at farangs. They're not. I have Japanese and Korean friends who are having to jump thru the same hoops we are, and they're not happy either. Several of them have left and taken their money with them, so it's not only the farangs that are leaving and so not spending money in Thailand.

I also know a lot of Thais who own businesses and every one of them is complaining that business is down, money is tight, no one is buying and their farang customers and Asians from other countries are also not buying from them because so many of them have left Thailand.

I'm also one of those farangs that is leaving. I've been here for years, contributed to the economy, paid my taxes (even got my nice tax refund yesterday which I'll be taking with me OUT of Thailand :-)), rented an apartment, supported local businesses etc. But me and the money I have made in Thailand will be exiting this country in the next few weeks. Because I see a distinct anti-foreigner sentiment in Thailand, mostly coming from the government and the hi-so's. And if they don't want me, I sure as heck don't need them - I have a life, friends and family, I have money, I own a house, I have a nice car - all waiting for me in the US. Don't need to waste any more of my life in a third world country that is going backwards.

Thailand is wonderful for a holiday but, with the present government and the anti-foreigner sentiment, you couldn't PAY me to live here.

[Gary A]

I'm one of the fortunate guys who qualifies for a retirement visa. I'm also legally married to a Thai lady and could go with the marriage visa but choose to stick with my retirement visa. And, before anyone corrects me, I know there are no such things as a retirement visa or a marriage visa. That's a little confusing too because that's what they actually are.

My heart goes out to the old pensioners who have been living here for years and no longer qualify. Many have given up on having any sort of visa and are living under the threat of being caught and then what? Eventually they will get caught. Now I'll get flamed by the young guys but that's okay too. You young guys can always go home and get a job, the old guys cannot.

I really don't understand why an old pensioner who can easily live here for less than 20,000 baht per month has to have many times the income of the average Thai. I too don't like the direction this thing is headed in.

i fully agree with you Gary but i could verify two cases where old pensioners (both germans) got their "retiree visa" renewed recently although they have neither the required amount of money in the bank nor do they have an income of 65,000 Baht per month. there seem to be still some immigration officers who possess a heart.

The one old guy who I worry about happens to be a Brit. Ne never did qualify for a retirement visa and always made visa runs. He is afraid to appeal to the immigration office because he thinks they will force him to leave the country. I'd say that he is most likely correct. The old fart has a Thai wife. She doesn't live with him but he still gives her money every month. WHY? That's just the way he is. Now he is afraid to stop giving her money because he is afraid that she will turn him into immigration. He is over 80 years old.

[samran]

I think the core reason for the reforms, was to clamp down on the ability of undesirables - read terrorists - to basically come and stay in Thailand indefinetly. Hambali was a huge wake up call to the lax system of immigration governance. Whatever you say about transperency and democracy here, the last thing the Thai goverment wants is their country to be a haven or easy hiding ground for terrorrists and other criminals. The geopolitical situation in SE Asia has changed...Indonesia and the relative instability there is a huge concern to all its neighbours.

I think the second reason was to formalise the system some more. Thailand had perpetual visa runners who while not breaking the law, were definetly undermining the spirit of the law. For the most part, any nation needs to know who is within its borders and for what reason - especially long termers. Visa running meant that a significant minority of people were basically out of sight of the Thai govenment. In a country where everyone has an ID card and a permanent house registration, and any legitimate long term stayer has to report every 90 days, under the radar visa runners were clearly unacceptable.

EVERY level of Visa and/or VOA registers you with the Thai computer system as in the country. The immigration white card number is attached to your passport number and Imm. knows of your presence in the country, even if you do infinite 30-day exemptions. Is there any time you can check in/check out without a valid passport and an immigration card filled out?

Just addressing this one point. If you entered the country at a border, rather than swim in, they know you are here, if they care to run a report.

You mean putting down that you stay at the XYZ hotel on the first night is sufficient for the purposes of knowing who is staying where for the next 29 days? For me, I'm not so sure.

I've said it before, I'd actually like to see Thailand issue temporary ID cards for long term residents in the same way HK or Singapore does for work permit holders. Thailand actually does a similar thing already for Burmese migrant workers. It it would be useful for a number of reasons, but especially for formalising peoples stay and bringing them into the system more effectively - eg opening bank accounts, paying bills etc etc.

[jdinasia]

I don't agree with those who say these new laws are targeted at farangs. They're not. I have Japanese and Korean friends who are having to jump thru the same hoops we are, and they're not happy either. Several of them have left and taken their money with them, so it's not only the farangs that are leaving and so not spending money in Thailand.

I also know a lot of Thais who own businesses and every one of them is complaining that business is down, money is tight, no one is buying and their farang customers and Asians from other countries are also not buying from them because so many of them have left Thailand.

I'm also one of those farangs that is leaving. I've been here for years, contributed to the economy, paid my taxes (even got my nice tax refund yesterday which I'll be taking with me OUT of Thailand :-)), rented an apartment, supported local businesses etc. But me and the money I have made in Thailand will be exiting this country in the next few weeks. Because I see a distinct anti-foreigner sentiment in Thailand, mostly coming from the government and the hi-so's. And if they don't want me, I sure as heck don't need them - I have a life, friends and family, I have money, I own a house, I have a nice car - all waiting for me in the US. Don't need to waste any more of my life in a third world country that is going backwards.

Thailand is wonderful for a holiday but, with the present government and the anti-foreigner sentiment, you couldn't PAY me to live here.

I am confused ..... this doesn't mesh with you making visa runs with jack golf .... being required tickets etc Could it be that it is not true?

[brahmburgers]

from the "nobody asked me, but....." Dept:

I suggest Thai Imm completely revamp their visa structure:

and add the following new categories for one year visas:

1. "Pay-As-You-Go visa" cost Bt.30,000 annually. Any age, married or not married. (forget the 'Elite Program' - it's on life-suport).

or

2. "Volunteer Service visa" pay annual Bt.6,000 and do 3 hours of tangible volunteer service each week. Suggest: teach English or computer skills at local library or school. If service not performed diligently, visa is revoked at that time - or not reissued at renewal time.

caveat: applicants assessed on a case by case basis - with one appeal allowed if turned down.

[Jimjim]

Anyway, as a result, the home purchase by farangs has deceased greatly. Since a very small % of the Thai population can afford to spend several million baht for a home and farangs can't purchase them, who is purchasing them.

Sure the housing market may take a hit for farangs who buy homes, but I think some people severely overestimates the impact of farangs on the housing market. It's elitist to think that not many Thais can afford these homes. There are plenty who can.

[ThaiGoon]

I don't agree with those who say these new laws are targeted at farangs. They're not. I have Japanese and Korean friends who are having to jump thru the same hoops we are, and they're not happy either. Several of them have left and taken their money with them, so it's not only the farangs that are leaving and so not spending money in Thailand.

I also know a lot of Thais who own businesses and every one of them is complaining that business is down, money is tight, no one is buying and their farang customers and Asians from other countries are also not buying from them because so many of them have left Thailand.

I'm also one of those farangs that is leaving. I've been here for years, contributed to the economy, paid my taxes (even got my nice tax refund yesterday which I'll be taking with me OUT of Thailand :-)), rented an apartment, supported local businesses etc. But me and the money I have made in Thailand will be exiting this country in the next few weeks. Because I see a distinct anti-foreigner sentiment in Thailand, mostly coming from the government and the hi-so's. And if they don't want me, I sure as heck don't need them - I have a life, friends and family, I have money, I own a house, I have a nice car - all waiting for me in the US. Don't need to waste any more of my life in a third world country that is going backwards.

Thailand is wonderful for a holiday but, with the present government and the anti-foreigner sentiment, you couldn't PAY me to live here.

I am confused ..... this doesn't mesh with you making visa runs with jack golf .... being required tickets etc Could it be that it is not true?

[Pakboong]

Goal posts change - and that is a soveriegn right of any country to do that...whether we like it or not. Nations do so to protect their national interests, and their national interests don't necessarily align with what what is ones personal interests.

I think, to be pefectly fair to people here, from what I see the 90/180 day rule has been applied haphazardly, with little consistency...at least in the intial phase. When goal posts change, the RTG isn't exactly the best manager of disemination of information, nor of consisent application.

On the other side of the coin, I also think that people are unfairly thinking that the change of rules is somehow designed to deter farangs here. I think it is grossly unfair, uninformed and somewhat egotistical to think that the RTG is somehow targeting the poor little white man. It simply isn't.

I think the core reason for the reforms, was to clamp down on the ability of undesirables - read terrorists - to basically come and stay in Thailand indefinetly. Hambali was a huge wake up call to the lax system of immigration governance. Whatever you say about transperency and democracy here, the last thing the Thai goverment wants is their country to be a haven or easy hiding ground for terrorrists and other criminals. The geopolitical situation in SE Asia has changed...Indonesia and the relative instability there is a huge concern to all its neighbours.

I think the second reason was to formalise the system some more. Thailand had perpetual visa runners who while not breaking the law, were definetly undermining the spirit of the law. For the most part, any nation needs to know who is within its borders and for what reason - especially long termers. Visa running meant that a significant minority of people were basically out of sight of the Thai govenment. In a country where everyone has an ID card and a permanent house registration, and any legitimate long term stayer has to report every 90 days, under the radar visa runners were clearly unacceptable.

These restrictions forced people who wanted to be here into making a choice. They either had to leave, or make Thailand their permanent home under a number of categories, whether it be Work Permits, Business ownership, Spousal stay, retirement, or guardian of a Thai national. In otherwords, you were out if you didn't have a family link to thailand, or you weren't prepared to regularise yourself in the Thai economy (by not just spending money, but being proactively creating value to the Thai economy - and paying tax). As far as I can see, this is the standard that most governments hold, espeically governemnts in countries most of us hail from.

But hold on you say....the Thai government is splitting up families? Really? How?

As far as I can see, especially on the family front, laws were RELAXED to allow easier terms of stay, especially for foreign male spouses married to Thai's. How is that you ask? Well for starters, instead of the foreign male having to earn 40K per month, the burden has been spread so that it applies to husband/wife combined income.

How unfair you might protest! What right does Thailand have to tell me that I MUST be able to support my family??!!?? Well in fact it has every right. And if any of you find yoursleves in the position of shipping your family back home to your own countries, you can be very sure that your home government is going to require that YOU (not your wife) provide evidence that you are able to support your family - usually without recourse to public funds/welfare.

But you doth protest more! 40,000 baht? Why 40,000 baht ($1300, 900 Euros, 600 pounds). A MONTH? Just a personal opinion, but if you going to have a life here, save for a retirement, send your kids to a half way decent school so they get a good start in life, pay for medical insurance etc etc...then 40,000 baht is a ridiclously low amount per month to support a family. But that is a personal opinion.

But dammit you say, I'm not married...how can I stay? Well, get a job in a capcity where you can contribute to the economy to help in grow. I know plenty of people who come here and do well for themselves, but they get out there and hunt around and do wind up with jobs. Unlike other countries, Thailand doesn't restrict the overall numbers of work permits issued. But, please, have a skill which is useful.

But I work for myself! Well that is fine too, start a business, provide some employment to Thai's...and off you go. It is possible, and there are thousands of farangs here successfully doing the same thing.

Thailand isn't in the business (anymore) of letting people just come and set up shop...especially the ones who aren't wanting to formalise their stay. But, if you are likely to be economically productive, or show that you have the basic capcity to support your family, then I don't think the rules are too unfair at all.

ฺฺิิิิิิิิby far the most sensible post on this subject I have read

[samran]

from the "nobody asked me, but....." Dept:

I suggest Thai Imm completely revamp their visa structure:

and add the following new categories for one year visas:

1. "Pay-As-You-Go visa" cost Bt.30,000 annually. Any age, married or not married. (forget the 'Elite Program' - it's on life-suport).

or

2. "Volunteer Service visa" pay annual Bt.6,000 and do 3 hours of tangible volunteer service each week. Suggest: teach English or computer skills at local library or school. If service not performed diligently, visa is revoked at that time - or not reissued at renewal time.

caveat: applicants assessed on a case by case basis - with one appeal allowed if turned down.

1) Roll up, roll up. Come stay in Thailand for less than $1000 per year. Geez, my gym membership is more than that.

2) Administrative nightmare....the RTG doesn't have either the financial or human resources to administer such a programme. Even if they did, the efficacy and the impact of such a programe would be debatable too.

Case by case basis justs adds increased subjectivity to the process, at a time when I think most posters are crying out for increase objectivity, consistency and transperency in applying the rules.

[ThaiGoon]

[steveromagnino]

I think they should have a green card lottery type system.

Any farangs (I will restrict to farangs, as I don't know any Japanese/Koreans/Chinese etc that spend this long moaning about this) have the right to enter a lucky draw.

Each entry costs 100b, and is accompanied by a hand written letter about why they think they should be allowed to stay, no more than 200 words. It must be written in Thai.

A game show runs weekly, and as hosts, Samran and I will butcher the prose and attempt to read out without mistakes.

Using SMS voting, viewers can vote on 3 categories:

- most useful to Thailand

- most amusing letter

- most idiotic

The top 10 in each category, then come onto the show, and have to do a number of 'Thai tasks' including wai khru, dtok bplar, dtok baird, dtok tong, that sort of thing. We get them to say tongue twisters in Thai. We get them to do voice over for nung kai yah, that sort of thing. Second round of academy fantasia/weakest link SMS voting.

Each category winner gets immediate PR, a HILUX pickup truck and a case of red bull. Also rans become famous and hopefully can marry some of Nana Plaza's finest. Someone can put out a single Tom tom where you go today, I lub Muang Tong Thani, I like bpoo patpong guree.

The show is funded through ad revenues, SMS revenue share and sponsors.

I can see this being possibly the best thing, since Samran attempted to speak Kiwi.

Milbun - Capital of Victoria

Peck - To fill a suitcase

Pissed aside - Chemical which kills insects

Pigs - For hanging out washing

Pug - Large animal with curly tail

Nin tin dough - Computer game

Munner stroney - Soup

Min - Male of the species

Mess Kara - Eye makeup

McKennock - Person who fixes cars

Mere - Mayor

Leather - Foam produced from soap

Lift - Departed

Kiri Pecker - Famous Australian businessman

Kittle crusps - Potato chips

Ken's - Cairns

Jumbo - Pet name for someone called Jim

Jungle Bills - Christmas Carol

Inner me - Enemy

Guess - Vapour

Fush - Marine creatures

Fitter cheney - Type of pasta

Ever cardeau - Avocado

Fear hear - Blonde

Ear - Mix of nitrogen and oxygen

Ear roebucks - Exercise at gym

Duffy cult - Not easy

Amejen - Visualise

Day old chuck - Very young poultry

Bug hut - Popular recording

Bun button - Been bitten by an insect

Beard - A place to sleep

Chully bin - Esky

Sucks peck - Half a dozen beers

Ear New Zealand - An extinct airline

Beers - Large savage animals found in U.S. forests

One doze - Well known computer program

Sex - One less than seven

Iggs ecktly - Precisely

Beggage chucken - Place to leave your luggage at the earport

[wolfmanjack]

There is 90% more paper work and a lot more money involved in getting a visa to the USA than there is for Thailand.

A huge number of poor people are trying to get into the USA and that is what the USA is trying to stop. This is because the USA does not want it's welfare programs to be any more over run than they already are.

Now do you want to compare the USA visa regs with thailand's some more ????

How many times has the regs changed in the last 8 years? How many times has thailands ??

The USA requires a family income of 125% of poverty level for you to bring your spouse to be a permanent resident and work in the USA? Also this can be supplemented by an affidavit of support by others. Thailand requires 40 times the poverty level and it has to be shown again every year.

The USA give 50,000 green cards per year in a lottery and the only requirement is a high school level education. No income requirement.

Sure it takes longer to get approved but once you are approved you are done except for having to convert your temporary green card to a permanent one after 2 years. How long do you have to wait for your extension based on marriage to be approved by bangkok when you apply from chaing mai ? About the same as it takes for your application to be approved by the USA. Thailand allows you to stay in thailand while you are waiting is the only difference. If I had to stay out of the country and wait for 6 months to be able to stay for the rest of my life with no hassles and no fear of the rules being changed I would gladly do it.

[wolfmanjack]

I think the core reason for the reforms, was to clamp down on the ability of undesirables - read terrorists - to basically come and stay in Thailand indefinetly. Hambali was a huge wake up call to the lax system of immigration governance. Whatever you say about transperency and democracy here, the last thing the Thai goverment wants is their country to be a haven or easy hiding ground for terrorrists and other criminals. The geopolitical situation in SE Asia has changed...Indonesia and the relative instability there is a huge concern to all its neighbours.

I think the second reason was to formalise the system some more. Thailand had perpetual visa runners who while not breaking the law, were definetly undermining the spirit of the law. For the most part, any nation needs to know who is within its borders and for what reason - especially long termers. Visa running meant that a significant minority of people were basically out of sight of the Thai govenment. In a country where everyone has an ID card and a permanent house registration, and any legitimate long term stayer has to report every 90 days, under the radar visa runners were clearly unacceptable.

EVERY level of Visa and/or VOA registers you with the Thai computer system as in the country. The immigration white card number is attached to your passport number and Imm. knows of your presence in the country, even if you do infinite 30-day exemptions. Is there any time you can check in/check out without a valid passport and an immigration card filled out?

Just addressing this one point. If you entered the country at a border, rather than swim in, they know you are here, if they care to run a report.

You mean putting down that you stay at the XYZ hotel on the first night is sufficient for the purposes of knowing who is staying where for the next 29 days? For me, I'm not so sure.

I've said it before, I'd actually like to see Thailand issue temporary ID cards for long term residents in the same way HK or Singapore does for work permit holders. Thailand actually does a similar thing already for Burmese migrant workers. It it would be useful for a number of reasons, but especially for formalising peoples stay and bringing them into the system more effectively - eg opening bank accounts, paying bills etc etc.

So would I.

[wolfmanjack]

I'm one of the fortunate guys who qualifies for a retirement visa. I'm also legally married to a Thai lady and could go with the marriage visa but choose to stick with my retirement visa. And, before anyone corrects me, I know there are no such things as a retirement visa or a marriage visa. That's a little confusing too because that's what they actually are.

My heart goes out to the old pensioners who have been living here for years and no longer qualify. Many have given up on having any sort of visa and are living under the threat of being caught and then what? Eventually they will get caught. Now I'll get flamed by the young guys but that's okay too. You young guys can always go home and get a job, the old guys cannot.

I really don't understand why an old pensioner who can easily live here for less than 20,000 baht per month has to have many times the income of the average Thai. I too don't like the direction this thing is headed in.

Wait until immigration doubles the amount for retirees like they did for the marriage visa.

[Penkoprod]

Wait until immigration doubles the amount for retirees like they did for the marriage visa.

Just out of interest, does anyone know the requirement figures previous to it being 65K/ month?

Is there any historical data anywhere i mean?

Penkoprod

[tijnebijn]

I'm one of the fortunate guys who qualifies for a retirement visa. I'm also legally married to a Thai lady and could go with the marriage visa but choose to stick with my retirement visa. And, before anyone corrects me, I know there are no such things as a retirement visa or a marriage visa. That's a little confusing too because that's what they actually are.

My heart goes out to the old pensioners who have been living here for years and no longer qualify. Many have given up on having any sort of visa and are living under the threat of being caught and then what? Eventually they will get caught. Now I'll get flamed by the young guys but that's okay too. You young guys can always go home and get a job, the old guys cannot.

I really don't understand why an old pensioner who can easily live here for less than 20,000 baht per month has to have many times the income of the average Thai. I too don't like the direction this thing is headed in.

Wait until immigration doubles the amount for retirees like they did for the marriage visa.

I thought that a while ago they allready made the amount for retirees considerably higher,or am I wrong??

And with the appreciating baht,everything's going automatically higher,especially the US dollar.

Would be outregeous if they would do this,I think the americans will take their bags rapidly,with heads up!

[Gary A]

I'm one of the fortunate guys who qualifies for a retirement visa. I'm also legally married to a Thai lady and could go with the marriage visa but choose to stick with my retirement visa. And, before anyone corrects me, I know there are no such things as a retirement visa or a marriage visa. That's a little confusing too because that's what they actually are.

My heart goes out to the old pensioners who have been living here for years and no longer qualify. Many have given up on having any sort of visa and are living under the threat of being caught and then what? Eventually they will get caught. Now I'll get flamed by the young guys but that's okay too. You young guys can always go home and get a job, the old guys cannot.

I really don't understand why an old pensioner who can easily live here for less than 20,000 baht per month has to have many times the income of the average Thai. I too don't like the direction this thing is headed in.

Wait until immigration doubles the amount for retirees like they did for the marriage visa.

I thought that a while ago they allready made the amount for retirees considerably higher,or am I wrong??

And with the appreciating baht,everything's going automatically higher,especially the US dollar.

Would be outregeous if they would do this,I think the americans will take their bags rapidly,with heads up!

The only change in the retirement visa that I can remember is they lowered the age to 50. It has been the 800,000 in the bank or 65,000 per month for a long time. I have never seen anyone use the combination of both used but that supposedly is doable.

If they decide to double the money requirements, then I will have to change to the marriage visa. If that is drastically changed my wife and I will be headed for the US.

[vermin on arrival]

There is 90% more paper work and a lot more money involved in getting a visa to the USA than there is for Thailand.

A huge number of poor people are trying to get into the USA and that is what the USA is trying to stop. This is because the USA does not want it's welfare programs to be any more over run than they already are.

Now do you want to compare the USA visa regs with thailand's some more ????

How many times has the regs changed in the last 8 years? How many times has thailands ??

The USA requires a family income of 125% of poverty level for you to bring your spouse to be a permanent resident and work in the USA? Also this can be supplemented by an affidavit of support by others. Thailand requires 40 times the poverty level and it has to be shown again every year.

The USA give 50,000 green cards per year in a lottery and the only requirement is a high school level education. No income requirement.

Sure it takes longer to get approved but once you are approved you are done except for having to convert your temporary green card to a permanent one after 2 years. How long do you have to wait for your extension based on marriage to be approved by bangkok when you apply from chaing mai ? About the same as it takes for your application to be approved by the USA. Thailand allows you to stay in thailand while you are waiting is the only difference. If I had to stay out of the country and wait for 6 months to be able to stay for the rest of my life with no hassles and no fear of the rules being changed I would gladly do it.

Good post. People are always commenting how hard it is to get a visa to the US, but they don't mention the huge problem that there is with illegal aliens in the country(more than 10,000,000 at least), and that there are hordes more lining up to come in. However, once you pass, you get aheck of a lot more than here. I have known many people who get tourist visas to the US that are ten year multiple reentry. Wouldn't it be nice to get one like that for Thailand?

If you get married to a US citizen or have kids in country, you don't have to muddle through all the costs and visa application nonsense that you get in Thailand, and you're on the track for green card and citizenship.

[vermin on arrival]

The only change in the retirement visa that I can remember is they lowered the age to 50. It has been the 800,000 in the bank or 65,000 per month for a long time. I have never seen anyone use the combination of both used but that supposedly is doable.

If they decide to double the money requirements, then I will have to change to the marriage visa. If that is drastically changed my wife and I will be headed for the US.

Gary,

In the early part of Thaksin's first government, they doubled the income requirements for the retirement and marriage visa if I remember correctly, and all financial requirements for all visas went up.

Edited June 7, 2007 by vermin on arrival

[tijnebijn]

Yes,thats what I thought to remember also.The prices,doubled,are allready been done with.

Thanks for the remeber Vermin

[JR Texas]

I'm one of the fortunate guys who qualifies for a retirement visa. I'm also legally married to a Thai lady and could go with the marriage visa but choose to stick with my retirement visa. And, before anyone corrects me, I know there are no such things as a retirement visa or a marriage visa. That's a little confusing too because that's what they actually are.

My heart goes out to the old pensioners who have been living here for years and no longer qualify. Many have given up on having any sort of visa and are living under the threat of being caught and then what? Eventually they will get caught. Now I'll get flamed by the young guys but that's okay too. You young guys can always go home and get a job, the old guys cannot.

I really don't understand why an old pensioner who can easily live here for less than 20,000 baht per month has to have many times the income of the average Thai. I too don't like the direction this thing is headed in.

Wait until immigration doubles the amount for retirees like they did for the marriage visa.

I thought that a while ago they allready made the amount for retirees considerably higher,or am I wrong??

And with the appreciating baht,everything's going automatically higher,especially the US dollar.

Would be outregeous if they would do this,I think the americans will take their bags rapidly,with heads up!

The only change in the retirement visa that I can remember is they lowered the age to 50. It has been the 800,000 in the bank or 65,000 per month for a long time. I have never seen anyone use the combination of both used but that supposedly is doable.

If they decide to double the money requirements, then I will have to change to the marriage visa. If that is drastically changed my wife and I will be headed for the US.

JR Texas: The OP wrote "cull out undesirables." Maybe so......sure seems that way. The myth is that the changes (mostly the result of TOXIN) were necessary to prevent crime. The reality is far different.

The visa runners, for example, were not doing anything illegal because they were doing precisely what the immigration police told them to do (in so many words). They were also security checked more than other types of visa holders. Each month they did a "run" and passed through four security checks (exiting Thailand, entering a foreign country, exiting a foreign country, and entering Thailand).

Raising the bar on Thai-Farang families has nothing to do with preventing crime and smacks of xenophobia.

One can make the argument that eliminating the investment visa was designed to prevent mafia crime, but that argument is bogus (unless the people who made that decision are extraordinarily stupid).

Mafia types have many ways of staying in Thailand. And if they are serious about getting rid of the mafia, we all know where to look first, and that is not among farangs.

Really, I do not think I could create a worse and more confused visa system if I deliberately set out to do it. It is beyond stupid.........it is the Three Stooges in action. Actually, they could do a better job.

The reality is that the visa rules are pushing good people out of Thailand and breaking up families and hurting children........and costing the country loads of dollars.

The rules and regulations are not just impacting the farangs that are here now........people outside of Thailand are looking at them, scratching their heads, and deciding that something is wrong. Many, not all, do not like what they see.

There is a very easy solution to the issue of visa runners: a) allow them to get unlimited tourist visas without having to fly all over the planet to get them, and/or allow them to pay for 1, 3, 6, 12 month visa extensions without having to leave the country.

If crime is an issue, then a certified copy of a criminal background check issued from a local embassy should be sufficient to convince immigration that "you are clean."

One more thing: Enlightened countries try hard to attract both low-income (budget) and high-income tourists. The United States, Australia and New Zealand do this. Why? Because they know that most people/tourists are not rich.

Most countries want a thriving tourist industry and the jobs that go with it. They know that a small minority of rich tourists (most of whom only stay for very short periods) will not provide them with what they need and want. There are only a few exceptions (e.g., Switzerland, Monaco).

The visa and business rules must be changed soon..........Thailand simply cannot afford to lose foreign capital to places like Vietnam, the Philippines, and Cambodia, among others.

[wolfmanjack]

There is 90% more paper work and a lot more money involved in getting a visa to the USA than there is for Thailand.

A huge number of poor people are trying to get into the USA and that is what the USA is trying to stop. This is because the USA does not want it's welfare programs to be any more over run than they already are.

Now do you want to compare the USA visa regs with thailand's some more ????

How many times has the regs changed in the last 8 years? How many times has thailands ??

The USA requires a family income of 125% of poverty level for you to bring your spouse to be a permanent resident and work in the USA? Also this can be supplemented by an affidavit of support by others. Thailand requires 40 times the poverty level and it has to be shown again every year.

The USA give 50,000 green cards per year in a lottery and the only requirement is a high school level education. No income requirement.

Sure it takes longer to get approved but once you are approved you are done except for having to convert your temporary green card to a permanent one after 2 years. How long do you have to wait for your extension based on marriage to be approved by bangkok when you apply from chaing mai ? About the same as it takes for your application to be approved by the USA. Thailand allows you to stay in thailand while you are waiting is the only difference. If I had to stay out of the country and wait for 6 months to be able to stay for the rest of my life with no hassles and no fear of the rules being changed I would gladly do it.

Good post. People are always commenting how hard it is to get a visa to the US, but they don't mention the huge problem that there is with illegal aliens in the country(more than 10,000,000 at least), and that there are hordes more lining up to come in. However, once you pass, you get aheck of a lot more than here. I have known many people who get tourist visas to the US that are ten year multiple reentry. Wouldn't it be nice to get one like that for Thailand?

If you get married to a US citizen or have kids in country, you don't have to muddle through all the costs and visa application nonsense that you get in Thailand, and you're on the track for green card and citizenship.

Thanks. I've posted similar on other threads and got arguments from people. Just waiting for the arguments to show up here.

And if you qualify for citizenship you don't get rejected. If I remember right, correct me if i'm wrong, it is 2 years temporary residence before you can switch to permanent. Then 2 more years before you can go fore citizenship. Total of 4 years.

I mention the retirement income because someone from immigration mentioned it in passing. Immigration is contemplating 1.5 million baht for retirement visa. The guy may have been yanking my chain since I said I only had a few years to go but I would not put it past them.

[tijnebijn]

I'm one of the fortunate guys who qualifies for a retirement visa. I'm also legally married to a Thai lady and could go with the marriage visa but choose to stick with my retirement visa. And, before anyone corrects me, I know there are no such things as a retirement visa or a marriage visa. That's a little confusing too because that's what they actually are.

My heart goes out to the old pensioners who have been living here for years and no longer qualify. Many have given up on having any sort of visa and are living under the threat of being caught and then what? Eventually they will get caught. Now I'll get flamed by the young guys but that's okay too. You young guys can always go home and get a job, the old guys cannot.

I really don't understand why an old pensioner who can easily live here for less than 20,000 baht per month has to have many times the income of the average Thai. I too don't like the direction this thing is headed in.

Wait until immigration doubles the amount for retirees like they did for the marriage visa.

I thought that a while ago they allready made the amount for retirees considerably higher,or am I wrong??

And with the appreciating baht,everything's going automatically higher,especially the US dollar.

Would be outregeous if they would do this,I think the americans will take their bags rapidly,with heads up!

The only change in the retirement visa that I can remember is they lowered the age to 50. It has been the 800,000 in the bank or 65,000 per month for a long time. I have never seen anyone use the combination of both used but that supposedly is doable.

If they decide to double the money requirements, then I will have to change to the marriage visa. If that is drastically changed my wife and I will be headed for the US.

JR Texas: The OP wrote "cull out undesirables." Maybe so......sure seems that way. The myth is that the changes (mostly the result of TOXIN) were necessary to prevent crime. The reality is far different.

The visa runners, for example, were not doing anything illegal because they were doing precisely what the immigration police told them to do (in so many words). They were also security checked more than other types of visa holders. Each month they did a "run" and passed through four security checks (exiting Thailand, entering a foreign country, exiting a foreign country, and entering Thailand).

Raising the bar on Thai-Farang families has nothing to do with preventing crime and smacks of xenophobia.

One can make the argument that eliminating the investment visa was designed to prevent mafia crime, but that argument is bogus (unless the people who made that decision are extraordinarily stupid).

Mafia types have many ways of staying in Thailand. And if they are serious about getting rid of the mafia, we all know where to look first, and that is not among farangs.

Really, I do not think I could create a worse and more confused visa system if I deliberately set out to do it. It is beyond stupid.........it is the Three Stooges in action. Actually, they could do a better job.

The reality is that the visa rules are pushing good people out of Thailand and breaking up families and hurting children........and costing the country loads of dollars.

The rules and regulations are not just impacting the farangs that are here now........people outside of Thailand are looking at them, scratching their heads, and deciding that something is wrong. Many, not all, do not like what they see.

There is a very easy solution to the issue of visa runners: a) allow them to get unlimited tourist visas without having to fly all over the planet to get them, and/or allow them to pay for 1, 3, 6, 12 month visa extensions without having to leave the country.

If crime is an issue, then a certified copy of a criminal background check issued from a local embassy should be sufficient to convince immigration that "you are clean."

One more thing: Enlightened countries try hard to attract both low-income (budget) and high-income tourists. The United States, Australia and New Zealand do this. Why? Because they know that most people/tourists are not rich.

Most countries want a thriving tourist industry and the jobs that go with it. They know that a small minority of rich tourists (most of whom only stay for very short periods) will not provide them with what they need and want. There are only a few exceptions (e.g., Switzerland, Monaco).

The visa and business rules must be changed soon..........Thailand simply cannot afford to lose foreign capital to places like Vietnam, the Philippines, and Cambodia, among others.

Well written,this is how the things are in reality.But if the thai will see this soon enough..........Eventually!

[bendix]

I'm confused. It happens sometimes.

What, exactly, is wrong with the proposition that - to use the OPs own words - the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'.

Sounds like exactly the right thing to do. What should they be doing - welcoming undesirables with a red carpet?

Does anyone else see the delicious irony in a poster calling himself 'vermin on arrival' complaining about immigration policies?

[Mid]

I'm confused. It happens sometimes.

What, exactly, is wrong with the proposition that - to use the OPs own words - the Thai Higher-Ups wanting to cull 'undesirables'.

Sounds like exactly the right thing to do. What should they be doing - welcoming undesirables with a red carpet?

Does anyone else see the delicious irony in a poster calling himself 'vermin on arrival' complaining about immigration policies?

just this once , after this get your own Cliff notes ................

nothing wrong with culling the undesirables , the problem is the haphazard implementation of legislation and the unfortunate desirables who get caught in the resulting mess .

your welcome .

[tijnebijn]

If 1.5 million baht would be the thing to come......I doubt it,cause not long ago they doubled it allready.

Would not suprise me though.So if this really is happening,not that I want to go further ,cause still a rumour I guess,then the people with the old rules will be grandfathered?I reckon that a lot,I mean a lot of people considering a retirement visa should apply soon,if not there retirement plan could go totally wrong.

For now I keep it as a rumour.

[wolfmanjack]

I'm one of the fortunate guys who qualifies for a retirement visa. I'm also legally married to a Thai lady and could go with the marriage visa but choose to stick with my retirement visa. And, before anyone corrects me, I know there are no such things as a retirement visa or a marriage visa. That's a little confusing too because that's what they actually are.

My heart goes out to the old pensioners who have been living here for years and no longer qualify. Many have given up on having any sort of visa and are living under the threat of being caught and then what? Eventually they will get caught. Now I'll get flamed by the young guys but that's okay too. You young guys can always go home and get a job, the old guys cannot.

I really don't understand why an old pensioner who can easily live here for less than 20,000 baht per month has to have many times the income of the average Thai. I too don't like the direction this thing is headed in.

Wait until immigration doubles the amount for retirees like they did for the marriage visa.

I thought that a while ago they allready made the amount for retirees considerably higher,or am I wrong??

And with the appreciating baht,everything's going automatically higher,especially the US dollar.

Would be outregeous if they would do this,I think the americans will take their bags rapidly,with heads up!

The only change in the retirement visa that I can remember is they lowered the age to 50. It has been the 800,000 in the bank or 65,000 per month for a long time. I have never seen anyone use the combination of both used but that supposedly is doable.

If they decide to double the money requirements, then I will have to change to the marriage visa. If that is drastically changed my wife and I will be headed for the US.

JR Texas: The OP wrote "cull out undesirables." Maybe so......sure seems that way. The myth is that the changes (mostly the result of TOXIN) were necessary to prevent crime. The reality is far different.

The visa runners, for example, were not doing anything illegal because they were doing precisely what the immigration police told them to do (in so many words). They were also security checked more than other types of visa holders. Each month they did a "run" and passed through four security checks (exiting Thailand, entering a foreign country, exiting a foreign country, and entering Thailand).

Raising the bar on Thai-Farang families has nothing to do with preventing crime and smacks of xenophobia.

One can make the argument that eliminating the investment visa was designed to prevent mafia crime, but that argument is bogus (unless the people who made that decision are extraordinarily stupid).

Mafia types have many ways of staying in Thailand. And if they are serious about getting rid of the mafia, we all know where to look first, and that is not among farangs.

Really, I do not think I could create a worse and more confused visa system if I deliberately set out to do it. It is beyond stupid.........it is the Three Stooges in action. Actually, they could do a better job.

The reality is that the visa rules are pushing good people out of Thailand and breaking up families and hurting children........and costing the country loads of dollars.

The rules and regulations are not just impacting the farangs that are here now........people outside of Thailand are looking at them, scratching their heads, and deciding that something is wrong. Many, not all, do not like what they see.

There is a very easy solution to the issue of visa runners: a) allow them to get unlimited tourist visas without having to fly all over the planet to get them, and/or allow them to pay for 1, 3, 6, 12 month visa extensions without having to leave the country.

If crime is an issue, then a certified copy of a criminal background check issued from a local embassy should be sufficient to convince immigration that "you are clean."

One more thing: Enlightened countries try hard to attract both low-income (budget) and high-income tourists. The United States, Australia and New Zealand do this. Why? Because they know that most people/tourists are not rich.

Most countries want a thriving tourist industry and the jobs that go with it. They know that a small minority of rich tourists (most of whom only stay for very short periods) will not provide them with what they need and want. There are only a few exceptions (e.g., Switzerland, Monaco).

The visa and business rules must be changed soon..........Thailand simply cannot afford to lose foreign capital to places like Vietnam, the Philippines, and Cambodia, among others.

Well written,this is how the things are in reality.But if the thai will see this soon enough..........Eventually!

Good post JR. You and I seem to agree on a lot these days.

Bendix. You are right. The OP should not have used the word undesirable if for not other reason than to prevent confusion. It should have been clarified that the higher ups consider all non thais undesirable and only the wealthy are to be tolerated. At least this is the impression that many of us get from the raising of the bar.

Edited June 7, 2007 by wolfmanjack