Derogatory Or Not?

[pampal]

The real questions are:

Why is the question of race so important?

Why would anyone care?

[kat]

Pampal:

I find your very serious, very reflective questions alongside your avatar freakin' hilarious!

But on a serious note, in answer to your question:

Why do we care if we are male or female, English, French, or American, *Trekkies or non-Trekies? *(as in Star Trek fans)

Because these markers are an essential part of our identities, and indentity informs experience. When things get scarce or a little bit flaky in society, these differences are easy markers for people to exploit, use and blame.

Hence, the reason why race is important.

Edited June 8, 2007 by kat

[qwertz]

The real questions are:

Why is the question of race so important?

Why would anyone care?

Because the question exists.

Because nobody is born a racist.

Because non racists are affected by the question too.

[dantilley]

What amazes me is that nearly 42% of voters think it's a non-offensive word. I mean, OK, you always expect a few ignorant people around but 42%... ?!

[farang prince]

I love Americans. Love everywhere I've been and worked there. Sorry, NR, but the Brits do look down on us folks from the colonies. I know. I worked with Brits for several years.

and the Americans don't?

They think they are pretty much superior to everyone else on the planet............

Don't you think that both of you are guilty of extreme generalizations? I'm Canadian/American and I don't feel "pretty much superior" to everyone else on the planet. There are plenty of people who are white/brown/black/asian who are smarter than I am. I just happen to be smart enough to realize it.

[qwertz]

Most Europeans come from cultures where it's customary to introduce yourself formally before you address somebody.

In Germany , for instance it's quite the norm to offer a handshake and state your name.

If people talk about you and not to you in your presence it's safe to ignore them as it's a clear sign of bad manners.

If they don't know you, then they'll use words like "farang, stranger, round eyes", or whatever else makes clear that you are not one of them.

I was born of Irish immigrant parents in England and, although I know next to nothing of Ireland, my family and I were often called "micks".

[mikethevigoman]

What about "<deleted>" never hear that saying used any more. (rightly so I might add)

Iwas told it stood for western oriental gentleman ! .any of you lot remember alf garnet ?

[November Rain]

Don't the British refer to the American English language at "Basta*d" English? If so, that is a rather nice glimpse of how the British feel about America or Americans in genearal.

That ok with me, because I have my own views too regarding the british English usage.

Ta Ta

How lovely for you.

Everyone from every class or strata of society will find someone to look down on. I bet even the "untouchables" in India have someone they can rag on...

Mmmm.

It seems to me that our cousins from across the Atlantic (is that term acceptable?) who have such a problem with "all" Brits looking down on them might have a bit of a chip on their shoulders that makes them perceive things in that light. If you expect to see something, you can go searching for signs that you are right in that expectation.

As for the English language, or specifically the American version of it, Brits would tend to use the term "bastardised", not "bastard" - subtle difference in meaning. Whatever your views on British English, Dakhar, you have to remember it did evolve (from many other languages, brought in mainly by being conquered & living with occupying forces for much of our early history) in England (not even in Britain, as Celtic & Gaelic were used in the other British countries). So, British English is the earliest & thus original form of the English language.

I'm sorry NM, but I really have to take exception to your comment. I am amazed that while English society is capable of some of the most virulent forms of anti-American bashing, many can STILL blame us for it or condescendingly remark that it is our "chip."

This denial to me is no different than white people who deny obvious patterns of racism to people of color and tell them they are "overreacting." Anti-american bashing is EVERYWHERE in English society: in your media (please refer to a newspaper poll last year in which an overwhelming majority of the English public voted Americans to be "vulgar" among other things; openly condescending remarks that I have heard even on serious news shows on the BBC; go back and read comments on this forum or any other in which Americans and English interact, and then take your own tally on who is harboring the chips.

I have met and known a lot of English friends, many of whom I still count as such, but I am pretty much fed up with blatant English superiority trips and their lack of responsibility for it.

Pardon?

Forgive me for not knowing about the latest British newspaper polls; I've been in Asia for the last 13 years & I don't read British newspapers - no interest in them.

I'm so sorry that I came across as condescending. Perhaps it's because I don't like being accused of a trait that I don't possess by people I've never met. I do not America bash. You probably wouldn't know that, as you don't come on here that often now, but Jet (whom most of that post was addressed to,) does. I defy anyone to find a single post of mine where I have done that. I take people as I find them & I have found wonderful people & absolute tw@ts from many different countries. None of that seems to be nationality specific.

I'm afraid I do think that people (of any nationality) that have a problem with "all" (and yes, that word was used) of the people of another nationality because they "all" have a specific, undesirable trait, tend to have a chip on their shoulder that makes them seek signs of that trait, whether it is present in an individual, or not.

NR

[Pepe']

Just curious.

Is there a derogatory term just for Thais? Maybe Burmese people say it. What might it be? Something like yumbos related to tom yum goong and rhymes with dumbo? Or how about smileys?

You can't shorten Thai like you can for Pakistanis. Th doesn't cut it as a slur.

In case you can't tell, I am trying to be humorous. If the Thais don't have a slur, maybe they are missing out on something. After all, if some people don't hate you, you hardly exist.

----------------------------

I believe Kwai will do as a good slur. Try it!

[Pepe']

I have spent lots of time in India and have had a lot of dealings with local Pakis.

Can you explain that please?

-------------------------

Back in the late 70's I had many extended visits to India, 3 to 4 months at a time.

While living there I had many dealings business and social with Indians and Pakis.

[Pepe']

Don't the British refer to the American English language at "Basta*d" English? If so, that is a rather nice glimpse of how the British feel about America or Americans in genearal.

That ok with me, because I have my own views too regarding the british English usage.

Ta Ta

How lovely for you.

Everyone from every class or strata of society will find someone to look down on. I bet even the "untouchables" in India have someone they can rag on...

---------------------------

Quite right. They rag on the Brits...

[Pepe']

I love Americans. Love everywhere I've been and worked there. Sorry, NR, but the Brits do look down on us folks from the colonies. I know. I worked with Brits for several years.

and the Americans don't?

They think they are pretty much superior to everyone else on the planet............

-------------------------------

And don't forget it...

[sukanyacondo]

Don't the British refer to the American English language at "Basta*d" English? If so, that is a rather nice glimpse of how the British feel about America or Americans in genearal.

That ok with me, because I have my own views too regarding the british English usage.

Ta Ta

How lovely for you.

Its funny you can almost imagine an alien race looking down on us and calling us "Earthies" We've all got to live here it doesnt matter one jot where we come from or what colour we are.

Everyone from every class or strata of society will find someone to look down on. I bet even the "untouchables" in India have someone they can rag on...

Mmmm.

It seems to me that our cousins from across the Atlantic (is that term acceptable?) who have such a problem with "all" Brits looking down on them might have a bit of a chip on their shoulders that makes them perceive things in that light. If you expect to see something, you can go searching for signs that you are right in that expectation.

As for the English language, or specifically the American version of it, Brits would tend to use the term "bastardised", not "bastard" - subtle difference in meaning. Whatever your views on British English, Dakhar, you have to remember it did evolve (from many other languages, brought in mainly by being conquered & living with occupying forces for much of our early history) in England (not even in Britain, as Celtic & Gaelic were used in the other British countries). So, British English is the earliest & thus original form of the English language.

I'm sorry NM, but I really have to take exception to your comment. I am amazed that while English society is capable of some of the most virulent forms of anti-American bashing, many can STILL blame us for it or condescendingly remark that it is our "chip."

This denial to me is no different than white people who deny obvious patterns of racism to people of color and tell them they are "overreacting." Anti-american bashing is EVERYWHERE in English society: in your media (please refer to a newspaper poll last year in which an overwhelming majority of the English public voted Americans to be "vulgar" among other things; openly condescending remarks that I have heard even on serious news shows on the BBC; go back and read comments on this forum or any other in which Americans and English interact, and then take your own tally on who is harboring the chips.

I have met and known a lot of English friends, many of whom I still count as such, but I am pretty much fed up with blatant English superiority trips and their lack of responsibility for it.

[Pepe']

'Paki' is the new 'Nigger'.

These terms have been used for ages as an offensive term for those we dislike. However, it seems to be the case that British Pakistanis are using the term themselves in the same way American blacks refer to eachother as 'nigger' or, it would seem from album covers, 'Nigga'.

Personally I don't care for the terms. Once they have shown me that they don't act in ways that I dislike I can look past their difference.

-----------------------

"Let's get jiggy my Paki hoe wit da street heat beat" - MC Hammers (new song)

[Pepe']

I have met and known a lot of English friends, many of whom I still count as such, but I am pretty much fed up with blatant English superiority trips and their lack of responsibility for it.

Have you ever thought why we English have these 'superiority trips'? It is because we are!

------------------------

The George Washington and "minute men" would beg to differ...

[Pepe']

Hello. my name is Pepe' and I am a Wop. I was raised with a bunch of Spics, Spooks,

Kikes, a few Wasps and oh yeah other grease ball Wops...

[farang prince]

Hello. my name is Pepe' and I am a Wop. I was raised with a bunch of Spics, Spooks,

Kikes, a few Wasps and oh yeah other grease ball Wops...

No honkies?

[mcgriffith]

I think we ALL have some intrinsic prejudices about some particular nationality, racial group, etc.

Much as we don't like to admit it.

I can't stand evangelical Christian Republicans from the Deep South in the USA.

There, I said it.

I feel better now, admitting it.........

Just for the record, I'm a secular kind of Episcopalian from California.

Thanks for letting me vent!

"Paki" is offensive. It is like saying "dot head" for an Indian.

I lived in both Pakistan and India (and myriad other places).

Let's at least TRY to not put demeaning tags on people.....

[zaza]

Some US soldiers call Iraqi kids (Iraqipaki) although there is no mixed blood ppl of those 2 races in Iraq ,till now I wanna find out why they had used that term to call those miserable kids.

so its really common to be degraded or insulted by racist slurs as (Macaca) just for being not from a certain race or religion.

Edited June 8, 2007 by zaza

[sonnyJ]

Some US soldiers call Iraqi kids (Iraqipaki) although there is no mixed blood ppl of those 2 races in Iraq ,till now I wanna find out why they had used that term to call those miserable kids.

so its really common to be degraded or insulted by racist slurs as (Macaca) just for being not from a certain race or religion.

That truly is a derogatory and offensive term by its connotation. And they (the cogs of the great USA machinery of war) are still wondering why nobody likes us here? After all we are helping these people...

Edited June 8, 2007 by sonnyJ

[kat]

Don't the British refer to the American English language at "Basta*d" English? If so, that is a rather nice glimpse of how the British feel about America or Americans in genearal.

That ok with me, because I have my own views too regarding the british English usage.

Ta Ta

How lovely for you.

Everyone from every class or strata of society will find someone to look down on. I bet even the "untouchables" in India have someone they can rag on...

Mmmm.

It seems to me that our cousins from across the Atlantic (is that term acceptable?) who have such a problem with "all" Brits looking down on them might have a bit of a chip on their shoulders that makes them perceive things in that light. If you expect to see something, you can go searching for signs that you are right in that expectation.

As for the English language, or specifically the American version of it, Brits would tend to use the term "bastardised", not "bastard" - subtle difference in meaning. Whatever your views on British English, Dakhar, you have to remember it did evolve (from many other languages, brought in mainly by being conquered & living with occupying forces for much of our early history) in England (not even in Britain, as Celtic & Gaelic were used in the other British countries). So, British English is the earliest & thus original form of the English language.

I'm sorry NM, but I really have to take exception to your comment. I am amazed that while English society is capable of some of the most virulent forms of anti-American bashing, many can STILL blame us for it or condescendingly remark that it is our "chip."

This denial to me is no different than white people who deny obvious patterns of racism to people of color and tell them they are "overreacting." Anti-american bashing is EVERYWHERE in English society: in your media (please refer to a newspaper poll last year in which an overwhelming majority of the English public voted Americans to be "vulgar" among other things; openly condescending remarks that I have heard even on serious news shows on the BBC; go back and read comments on this forum or any other in which Americans and English interact, and then take your own tally on who is harboring the chips.

I have met and known a lot of English friends, many of whom I still count as such, but I am pretty much fed up with blatant English superiority trips and their lack of responsibility for it.

Pardon?

Forgive me for not knowing about the latest British newspaper polls; I've been in Asia for the last 13 years & I don't read British newspapers - no interest in them.

I'm so sorry that I came across as condescending. Perhaps it's because I don't like being accused of a trait that I don't possess by people I've never met. I do not America bash. You probably wouldn't know that, as you don't come on here that often now, but Jet (whom most of that post was addressed to,) does. I defy anyone to find a single post of mine where I have done that. I take people as I find them & I have found wonderful people & absolute tw@ts from many different countries. None of that seems to be nationality specific.

I'm afraid I do think that people (of any nationality) that have a problem with "all" (and yes, that word was used) of the people of another nationality because they "all" have a specific, undesirable trait, tend to have a chip on their shoulder that makes them seek signs of that trait, whether it is present in an individual, or not.

NR

No, I didn't mean to accuse you of this attitude, but only to take exception to what I thought was your denial of its existence. I didn' t mean to come across so strongly specifically to you as a target. I have complicated feelings on the matter, because I have English friends, but I have also been affected and knocked off kilter by English hatred, which I truly feel is very distorted.

Sorry.

[mr_hippo]

Kat, you accuse the English of having 'superiority trips' therefore you must feel that you are inferior. How long have you had this inferiority complex? Have you ever thought about seeking help?

[kmart]

I don't think the first generation of Asians into Britain (for example) minded being called a "Paki" at all. They were usually fleeing religious persecution, brutality, political repression, inhuman living conditions; etc. Guess what? Nothing has changed in their homelands since...

Just curious if this assumption is based on knowledge? ie have you ever asked any Pakistani immigrants how they felt about being called "paki"?

Mate, I grew up with a lot of Pakistani kids in Leeds, England in the Seventies. There is a great film, called "East Is East" that sums up the era perfectly. It is a brilliantly funny and accurate depiction of the culture clashes you'd expect.

[Jet Gorgon]

Hey jet, i lived in cedarbrae ,calgary in the 80s, there was a pub on mccloud trail called the dirty duck, underneath it an indian restuarant,,there was me, brit,tommy, scotland,and noel, ireland, we used to play the indians at poole it was " the brits versus the colonies " and they loved it.it was great fun and no one got offended,. it aint what you say, its how you say it,.

That's it! Brill, Mike. Ah, Calgary...I do love the chuckwagon races at the Stampede. Now, to your post, when everyone knows these words are said in kind jest, no prob. I used to call an old boyfriend nigger when he pi*sed me off. He'd say honky, we'd both laugh and then all was fine. An American friend died when I was on Samui, and a Thai restaurant girl we both knew was crying about it. I said, "That b*tch, she up and died on us, and didn't find you the boyfriend she promised you." I laughed. I was not being nasty. That was exactly the attitude my friend would have wanted, and the Thai girl got the point immediately and lightened up. Hey, if I play poker I call the hand winner a dog (if it's not me). It all depends on the scenario.

[phibunmike]

Yes, it's racist. It's not the same as calling an Australian, "aussie", because the connotation is different. The word "Aussie" is used in a friendly way. I've never heard the word "Paki" be used in a way that wasn't hostile, dismissive or downright derogatory. Therefore it is racist.

Absolutely agree when talking about people, "Paki" is a racist and derogatory and should never be used.

However, in some parts of the UK the the corner shop was (is?) sometimes referred to as "the Paki", and I think this usage is not derogatory. e.g. "I'm going to pop down to the Paki to buy some milk".

Cheers,

Mike

[Sir Burr]

[

Paki is definitely a derogatory word and anybody caught using it is obviously a racist. Absolutely no room on this forum for people like that.

Sadly 45% of the votes show that there is plenty of room on this forum for "people like that"!! !!

I' m one of the 45% and Sir Burr calls me a OBVIOUS racist - "Bullshlt"! I can have an opinion without being one: - Poms, Kiwis, Yarpies, Cannooks, Yanks, Aussies, Pakis, etc. etc. Most all of us come from countries or areas where the citizens have a common nick name. So long as it is not prefixed with a snide remark where' s the problem?

It's either black or white, are both Paki and Aussie are acceptable or not?for people

Is political correctness getting out of control?

Edit: Clarity

Lets get something straight here. This poll was started by Smartecosse because he objected to some one else using the word Paki.

I posted that just because a person used that word didn't mean he was racist. I got a bunch of insults for my view and he started this poll to get some ammo.

My post on this thread saying that there "was no room on the forum" for people who used the word Paki was a mild dig at Smartecrosse, just trying to take the wind out of his sails.

I now accept that the word Paki could be deemed racist and now "stand corrected".

The storm in this teacup started in the Phuket forum about good Indian take-aways if anyone is interested.

So, bdenner, I'm actually on your side of the discussion.

Edited June 9, 2007 by Sir Burr

[canuckamuck]

Call us what you like, Canadians are actually the superior race; we are just too polite to admit it - even amongst ourselves. But we all know it’s true. Our plan for world domination is nearly complete. We have total control over the North Pole, and the coveted Northwest Passage. And we will now begin to dismantle the world economy through the manipulation of Maple syrup distribution. We apologize in advance for our success.

[Pepe']

Hello. my name is Pepe' and I am a Wop. I was raised with a bunch of Spics, Spooks,

Kikes, a few Wasps and oh yeah other grease ball Wops...

No honkies?

--------------------------

Actually, good question. To hear the racial slur honkie in Newark was unusual. That seemed more common down south or maybe in Chicago or New York.

We were more affectionately called greasers, grease balls, guinea bastards or "eyetalian" piece of s_it.

Still Wop was the all time favorite.

The trick in Newark was to smack 'em and knock 'em out before they could finish their sentence.

Ah the good old days...

[OxfordWill]

I love Americans. Love everywhere I've been and worked there. Sorry, NR, but the Brits do look down on us folks from the colonies. I know. I worked with Brits for several years.

No, they looked down on you, not on -all- Americans.

p.s. sorry to hear that.

[sukanyacondo]

I don't think the first generation of Asians into Britain (for example) minded being called a "Paki" at all. They were usually fleeing religious persecution, brutality, political repression, inhuman living conditions; etc. Guess what? Nothing has changed in their homelands since...

Just curious if this assumption is based on knowledge? ie have you ever asked any Pakistani immigrants how they felt about being called "paki"?

Mate, I grew up with a lot of Pakistani kids in Leeds, England in the Seventies. There is a great film, called "East Is East" that sums up the era perfectly. It is a brilliantly funny and accurate depiction of the culture clashes you'd expect.

Ah you mean like eating sausages and bacon when the Father was out? Or the dancing in the back yard with the brooms or the Father hitting the wife!!!!!!