ColPyat Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Dangerous times and dangerous games. Personally, the crowd yesterday did outsize the Anti Thaksin rallies from Royal Plaza. There was a lot of fiddling with numbers during the PAD rallies (as there is now, but more in the other direction). Governments may try to downplay, but it should be expected from the media to be neutral and report facts as objective as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glaitong Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Too bad they don't know what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick2k Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I just did an online scan of a number of online newspapers in the usa, and nobody seems to be aware of this anti-junta rally. where are the reporters when you need them? http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/Top50/Top50-CurrentUS.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=...tnG=Search+News Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Sonthi ignores demand by protesters to step down June 10, 2007 : Last updated 03:37 pm (Thai local time) Gen Sonthi Boonyaratglin said Sunday that he would not step down as the chairman of the Council for National Security within a week as demanded by protesters.Sonthi said he had not done anything wrong and he had been serving as the CNS chief for public interest, not personal and vested interests. A demonstration organized by a network led by PTV satellite TV founders demanded Sonthi Saturday night to resign within a week. Sonthi said he doubted whether the protesters had hidden agendas. He said the situation did not warrant an announcement of the state of emergency yet. The Nation yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 *Thai politicians are sometimes refered to as bastards, Do we really need such infantile interruptions of informative discussions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdiver Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 they expect 10,000 it will end with a few hundreds of people protesting, and maybe a taxi driver that will slam his car in protest. tomorrow TRT will say that it was over then expected and that there were over 10,000. you sir are as irrelevant as your rose coloured glasses , industrial strength as they may be . how's sales , Mr Agent ?? i am realy sorry you feel you must attack me personally and find me irrelevant I am sorry i did not answer earlier but it was great sea today and I was out with my yacht sailing around with other friends who could not stop loughing about the "crisis". if you are ever in samui come by and i will take you on a real yacht its a bit biger then the one on your picture. by the way i dont sell anything. i did sell my it company in the good old days of 1999 and then came to thailand to stay for good. I am investing in a few private and boi projects and they are all doing great. what exactly is that you do?? apart from one line whining and dooms day predictions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdiver Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Despite what for Thailand is a reasonable sized rally, all the signs are....1. The draft constitution will be passed at referendum 2. Elections will take place on time 3. the CNS and military will disappear into the hole from where they came... Now that's an outlook a whole lot rosier than 3 months ago... we just have to keep our fingers crossed... true words of wisdom the militery appointed govermant has done exactly what it promised. they are on time with everything they said. its mostly dooms day brigade and defenders of the "thailand is in such a bad state" that are posting all the flaming remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Despite what for Thailand is a reasonable sized rally, all the signs are....1. The draft constitution will be passed at referendum 2. Elections will take place on time 3. the CNS and military will disappear into the hole from where they came... Now that's an outlook a whole lot rosier than 3 months ago... we just have to keep our fingers crossed... true words of wisdom the militery appointed govermant has done exactly what it promised... and then some- appointment of military to key state enterprise management positions- massive increases in military budget- a 14000 member secret police force - another 70000 member snitch force... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdiver Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Despite what for Thailand is a reasonable sized rally, all the signs are....1. The draft constitution will be passed at referendum 2. Elections will take place on time 3. the CNS and military will disappear into the hole from where they came... Now that's an outlook a whole lot rosier than 3 months ago... we just have to keep our fingers crossed... true words of wisdom the militery appointed govermant has done exactly what it promised... and then some- appointment of military to key state enterprise management positions- massive increases in military budget- a 14000 member secret police force - another 70000 member snitch force... wait a second are you talking about USA bush administration, the UK after the terror attacks. or maybe Singapore. what are you saying that the militery govermant is using neportism just as democratic goverments do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 BANGKOK: More than 8,000 Thais rallied in Bangkok yesterday - AFP Thaksin’s allies, who have organised daily anti-junta protests, claimed some 40,000 people joined yesterday’s rally. - AFP ================= yep.... extremely inflated numbers coming out of ADD, PTV, and Thaksinistas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 ''They were using very foul language on the stage, but the authorities are using utmost patience to deal with their provocations.'' - Associated Press Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) Despite what for Thailand is a reasonable sized rally, all the signs are....1. The draft constitution will be passed at referendum 2. Elections will take place on time 3. the CNS and military will disappear into the hole from where they came... Now that's an outlook a whole lot rosier than 3 months ago... we just have to keep our fingers crossed... true words of wisdom the militery appointed govermant has done exactly what it promised... and then some- appointment of military to key state enterprise management positions- massive increases in military budget- a 14000 member secret police force - another 70000 member snitch force... wait a second are you talking about USA bush administration, the UK after the terror attacks. or maybe Singapore. what are you saying that the militery govermant is using neportism just as democratic goverments do? You lost me- care to explain? Oh I get it- if the US uses secret police to monitor foreign based terrorists- the junta is justified in using secret police to monitor supporters of the previously democratically elected government. And if the army seizes power in the interest of cleaning up nepotism it is in some way jusitified in replacing the nepotism of the democratically elected gov't with nepotism of its own. Am I close? Edited June 10, 2007 by blaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 international media appears to have settled for 15, 000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 *Thai politicians are sometimes refered to as bastards, Do we really need such infantile interruptions of informative discussions? My post explaining how Thais paint the name of corrupt politicians on the backs of lizardrs has gone. There was more to it than just your short quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdiver Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 BANGKOK: More than 8,000 Thais rallied in Bangkok yesterday - AFPThaksin’s allies, who have organised daily anti-junta protests, claimed some 40,000 people joined yesterday’s rally. - AFP ================= yep.... extremely inflated numbers coming out of ADD, PTV, and Thaksinistas. ''They were using very foul language on the stage, but the authorities are using utmost patience to deal with their provocations.'' -Associated Press well i dont undertand the Associated Press. why would they say that there were about 8000 if we were told by Thai Visa members that there were 20,000 and TRT claims even 40,000. could it be that Associated Press has failed?? could it be that Associated Press has deliberatly joined the Junta to discredit TV memebers reporting? the same members that happily reported 20,00 and are now willing to sttle for much less is it possible that Associated Press has gone so far as to contridict the dooms day brigade on TV?? wow what a posting. life will definatly change. how can I belive Associated Press again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdiver Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 ''They were using very foul language on the stage, but the authorities are using utmost patience to deal with their provocations.''- Associated Press so this is the Junta that has taken power and uses the force of the army to controll Thailand. I cant remeber anywhere in history that a goverment of any country has allowed such strong verbal abuses as made yeaterdsay go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 well i dont undertand the Associated Press. why would they say that there were about 8000 if we were told by Thai Visa members that there were 20,000 and TRT claims even 40,000.could it be that Associated Press has failed?? could it be that Associated Press has deliberatly joined the Junta to discredit TV memebers reporting? the same members that happily reported 20,00 and are now willing to sttle for much less is it possible that Associated Press has gone so far as to contridict the dooms day brigade on TV?? wow what a posting. life will definatly change. how can I belive Associated Press again You are obviously free to make fun and jokes about yesterday's demonstration. If you would have been there though i believe you would not laugh much anymore. There was violence, a few police officers were hospitalized, and the crowds were massive. I do believe that it was around 20 000 people. I may be wrong, but i don't believe so, but i am sure that yesterday's demonstration did clearly outsize the anti-Thaksin Royal Plaza demonstrations. Also, the potential for violence is far higher now than in those days. The next few months will show who is right - posters such as you who believe that this is nothing and will miraculously go away, or posters such as me, who are very concerned that things will turn nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLah Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Colpyat, I think the same. 20.000 people against a police force of maybe 1000. (In general topics I started the fred about the 1973 video that is out, very interesting to watch). It takes very litlle to turn a crowd from a peacefull one into a violant one. Some people said there were no anti riot troops/meassures at that time but they did have teargass but instead used their RPG's and machine guns. Now I do not compare the situation from 73 with now, but I have my fears that when the big protest (24 June) is going to be held there is a real possibility of things go out of hand. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Colpyat, I think the same.20.000 people against a police force of maybe 1000. Thanks. And yesterday the only thing that prevented the crowd from turning very ugly was the extremely well disciplined police. Nothing else. I was actually the one who mentioned the thing about proper riot gear. That also includes rubber bullets and similar non lethal weapons for riot control. They did not have that, and the proper training, before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 BANGKOK: More than 8,000 Thais rallied in Bangkok yesterday - AFPThaksin’s allies, who have organised daily anti-junta protests, claimed some 40,000 people joined yesterday’s rally. - AFP ================= yep.... extremely inflated numbers coming out of ADD, PTV, and Thaksinistas. ''They were using very foul language on the stage, but the authorities are using utmost patience to deal with their provocations.'' -Associated Press well i dont undertand the Associated Press. why would they say that there were about 8000 if we were told by Thai Visa members that there were 20,000 and TRT claims even 40,000. could it be that Associated Press has failed?? could it be that Associated Press has deliberatly joined the Junta to discredit TV memebers reporting? the same members that happily reported 20,00 and are now willing to sttle for much less is it possible that Associated Press has gone so far as to contridict the dooms day brigade on TV?? wow what a posting. life will definatly change. how can I belive Associated Press again I wasn't there .... and I know of nobody that WAS there! but I saw some great pics of a crowd of less than 10K. Maybe nexttime I won't be out celebrating with friends and will have time to run down there and count <Then again one good aerial shot gives pretty much all the info needed!> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukamar Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 I just did an online scan of a number of online newspapers in the usa, and nobody seems to be aware of this anti-junta rally.where are the reporters when you need them? http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/Top50/Top50-CurrentUS.htm Try the Washington Post, they had an article yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Here a rather comical incident that could have ended tragic. Why on earth would Kraisak walk alone to a demonstration where thousands of people hate his guts for his involvement with the PAD, and not expect to be attacked? Jesus, even in the far more peaceful PAD crowd Thaksin supporters were physically attacked and had to be rescued by the police. Unbelievable... http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30036478 Kraisak alleged protesters provocative with ulterior motives Former senator Kraisak Chonhavan said Sunday that anti-coup protesters were apparently inciting violence with ulterior motives. Kraisak was speaking to a press conference during which he recounted a physical attack against him by some protesters Saturday night. Kraisak said he went to observe the demonstration by the so-called pro-democracy front against dictatorship in front of the Army headquarters Saturday night because he noticed a lot people joined the rally. Kraisak said he wanted to observe the rally because he had sympathy for many former Thai Rak Thai executives who were banned from politics for five years although they had not done anything wrong so he would like to observe whether the rally was related to the ban or not. Kraisak said he was speaking to foreign reporters at the rally site when someone on a mobile public addressing unit shouted that he should go home and leave the rally. He said he walked to the person, telling him that he would like to listen to the speakers of the rally but while he was explaining his stand, a group of young men attacked him by kicking and punching him and throwing objects to him. He said a few policemen rescued him from the scene. He added that he would not file a complaint with police against his attackers. The Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 ANTI-JUNTA RALLY Sonthi rejects calls to resign snipSonthi said he believed the demonstrations would subside when the country was told of the damage caused by the ousted government and the state of affairs that prompted the coup. snip at some time it maybe a fair idea to get on and do that ...................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 OK this is starting to make a bit more sense. I posed in another thread about a day ago that Thaksin would show his true colors in perhaps finding some lame excuse not to return. This is certainly a plausible theory designed to delay justice. It also fits Thaksin’s profile to use violence for his personal advantage. I would guess inciting violence before the first court case starts next week would be a target. It also puts the junta in a bit of a bind and I don’t know what other options they would have to keep this group from having further rallies. A court injunction may work if there is legal framework to support it. The coming days will be very interesting and very unstable to say the least. Unfortunately this supports Sonthi’s position on Thaksin and that he was not over reacting. I see Sonthi and Thaksin a good match for going head to head. If Thaksin can run out the clock on Sonthi and delay things past his retirement then Thaksin will have a clear advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 OK this is starting to make a bit more sense. I posed in another thread about a day ago that Thaksin would show his true colors in perhaps finding some lame excuse not to return. This is certainly a plausible theory designed to delay justice. It also fits Thaksin’s profile to use violence for his personal advantage. I would guess inciting violence before the first court case starts next week would be a target.It also puts the junta in a bit of a bind and I don’t know what other options they would have to keep this group from having further rallies. A court injunction may work if there is legal framework to support it. The coming days will be very interesting and very unstable to say the least. Unfortunately this supports Sonthi’s position on Thaksin and that he was not over reacting. I see Sonthi and Thaksin a good match for going head to head. If Thaksin can run out the clock on Sonthi and delay things past his retirement then Thaksin will have a clear advantage. No, John, you are quite wrong again. The leaders of the present demonstration are second and third tire TRT members, and of other non-TRT groups have allied themselves, some also anti-Thaksin. Most protesters are pro Thaksin though. Most likely Thaksin has very little to do with the demonstrations. Any violence that has occurred was not from the organizers of the event, on the opposite, they have tried their best to stop it. And no, it is very unlikely for Thaksin or his profile to use violence for his advantage. If that would have been the case he could/would have done so already during the Lumphini demonstrations and the royal plaza demonstrations. He could have ordered the police then to disperse the demonstrations. Which he did not. Thaksin used other means for his advantage, and obviously many of them in the grey zone of democracy such as media influence through his money and the threat of lawsuits, etc. Violence was not his method (and no - the drug war was a different situation: it was a concerted effort by all power factions in the Thai elite to combat an existing threat to society with brutal methods that have been used against perceived threats countless times, and also by many people that are part of or closed to this government). TRT was made up from many factions, and some of them definitely were not averse to violence. The violence you see now is not organized violence, especially not from Thaksin. What happened yesterday was simply anger and aggression natural for such a crowd, especially it's make up was far more blue collar (at least the ones who were violent), a class here that anyhow lives in a very violent environment. When you finally start understanding that this is not some sort of epic battle between "good" and "evil", "Thaksin" and "Gen. Sondhi", but a far more complex issue that explains itself through several decades of Thai history (it would really be advantageous to read some books here, in the long form). And no, one dos not need to be a hypnotic profiler to predict that there are some very unstable times ahead. And that will not be just the next days or weeks or months, but many years. We are just at the preliminary rounds of huge social upheavals in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 (edited) Colpyat; I think you are misreading a few things. First all I am saying is I agree with him that it is a possibility. Second I pointed out some of Thaksin’s personality traits that support his theory. The profiling I am doing has nothing at all to do with hypnosis, but is actually psychological criminal profiling done by law enforcement. If I recall correctly you said it was a very unprofessional use of psychology. I hope not too many people in law enforcement were too insulted by your remark about them. I guess you will find out though. I made that point before in another thread but at that time you had just started another holiday so you may have missed it. Based on your insinuation that I need read books on Thai history and I was agreeing with Kraisak, I guess Kraisak also must need to read the same books. However that is a bit of a paradox that I would like for you to explain at some point. If he did not read the books it is fair to assume others in government also did not read the books. So if that is the case what is the relevance of the books you insist on? Edited June 10, 2007 by John K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Will the kamikaze PTV go for broke? People's Television or PTV which was formed by a handful of hardcore former Thai Rak Thai party MPs to oppose the Council for National Security (CNS) has now adopted a new name _ Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship _ to blend in with changing circumstances. The rebranded political pressure group was recently given a big shot in the arm with the participation of dozens of former TRT MPs who openly threatened to mobilise tens of thousands of rural folks to join a protest at Sanam Luang. But more importantly, the mutated PTV has completely dropped all its previous pretensions regarding its political objective. Apparently emboldened by the indecisiveness and weakness of the CNS, the PTV leadership has decided to go for broke, not unlike the kamikaze suicide pilots of the Imperial Japanese Army during the Second World War. They openly call for the overthrow of the CNS, the restoration of democracy and, above all, the return of their dear leader, Thaksin Shinawatra, to lead the country _ not just ''to contribute for the good of the country as a normal citizen'' as he told the Japanese press recently. Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/11Jun2007_news18.php ==================== suicide-obsessed TRT'ers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Rally crashes police lines Around 10,000 anti-junta demonstrators marched on army headquarters Saturday night, breaking through several police barricades to demand the resignationon of the coup leader, the end of Thailand's "military dictatorship" - and in some cases the return of ousted Thaksin Shinawatra. http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=119342 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Leaders incited melee: Kraisak Former senator claims protest has another motive than to support Thai Rak Thai and oust the CNS Former senator Kraisak Chonhavan said yesterday he had been assaulted by protesters at the anti-coup rally on Saturday night, and accused the organisers of inciting violence with ulterior motives. "I've never encountered this kind of incident ... None of the demonstrations against the government saw demonstrators use violence as happened last night," Kraisak said at a press conference. "The leaders of the demonstration did not try to stop the attackers but apparently incited the use of force. So, I would say that the organisers were irresponsible and tried to incite violence." Kraisak said he went to observe the demonstration by the so-called pro-democracy front against dictatorship in front of the Army headquarters because he noticed that a lot of people were taking part. Kraisak said he sympathised with the many former Thai Rak Thai executives who were banned from politics for five years although they had not done anything wrong personally, and he wanted to see whether the protest was related to the ban or not. He said he was speaking to foreign reporters at the rally site when someone shouted at him through a megaphone to leave the rally and go home. He said he walked up to the man and told him that he simply wanted to hear the speakers at the rally but, as he was explaining this, a group of young men started kicking and punching him and throwing things at him. He was rescued by some policemen, but would not file a complaint against his attackers, he said. Kraisak said the organisers of the protest were not fighting for democracy or for justice for former Thai Rak Thai executives. "I believe the demonstrations by this group have other, ulterior motives, and I believe that future rallies could lead to danger," he said. Kraisak said his assault might be related to trips that he and other former senators had made to talk to the media and Thai students abroad about the human rights violations by the Thaksin Shinawatra government. Members of the Shinawatra family had tried to prevent them from making these trips on grounds the former prime minister had given up politics. Also speaking at the press conference, former senator Maleerat Kaewka advised people planning join the anti-government rallies not do so because the organisers could not control the situation. Former Yasothon senator Somboon Thongburan said he had received calls from the northeastern province to say canvassers had hired villagers to take part in the rallies for Bt200 a day. The villagers were being provided with accommodation, food and travel, he said. Somboon said he feared the protest organisers might try to create a situation by having an untoward incident, like a bombing, occur so the government would have to declare state of emergency. He said Thaksin could then cite the state of emergency to seek political asylum and avoid having to return to the country to face corruption charges. - The Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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