10,000 Anti-coup Demonstrators Expected At Sanam Luang Rally

[ColPyat]

But strangely now the villains are saying he was drunk .... yet the foriegn press didn't report that

oh wait a guy with a Mic points him out to the crowd .... but they were not inciting violence .... oi!

Not just the "villains" but also today's "daily news" stated that. As you can read Thai, you can easily reconfirm that.

It is entirely possible that a small mobile loudspeaker car pointed him out, there was one by the Noc Pilab Khao group closed by positioned. But i don't think that these guys belong to the organizers, they always run their own side shows. He was though protected by police and main organizers than came running by. The main loudspeaker car with all the main leaders asked people not to go there, loud and clear.

Also, i would like to remind you - my estimate of about 20 000 people has been mentioned by the Bangkok Post, while other sources seem to have mentioned 15 000. I think you should have a look at your areal image again, or maybe the partying of the previous evening did inhibit your senses. Which would be understandable.

It seems that my guess was not that far off, doesn't it?

Edited June 11, 2007 by ColPyat

[sriracha john]

Pro-Thaksin rally hopes 60,000 will join

Leaders of Supporters of Thaksin Against Dictatorship group expect to draw some 60,000 protesters to rally against Council for National Security.

- Bangkok Post / June 8, 2007

============

so, all in all, pretty much an unmitigated flop, then?

[ando]

And why wouldnt the Thai underclass feel like they are being taken for a ride against the course of democracy?

It is the Thai underclass who make up the majority of voters and therefore decide who will be the political rulers of their country. It is the Thai underclass who put the TRT in power simply because it offered them and their children the best hope for a better life. Now that hope is being taken away from them by men in military uniform armed with guns and tanks.

We can argue here about the technical points of law and the micro-concepts involved in every little stage of this sagas development, but when you step back and look at the big picture its plain to see that the coup was intended solely to oppose democracy and impose a replacement government through a pseudo-democratic process against the wishes of the majority of voters.

Just take a look at the sequence of events so far.

1. The military take over the legitimate government by force of arms.

2. The military impose martial law on the land, lifting it only in places where they have political support and maintaining it in places where people are angered by this slight on democracy.

3. The military bans all political activity from all parties, but writes a new constitution to suit their needs and calls for fresh elections in a years time.

4.. The military appoints a tribunal of judges who dissolve the countries most popular political party and bans its executives from political activity for 5 years.

5. Only days after banning the countries most popular political party, the military junta then allows political activity from the non-banned parties.

One doesn't have to be too bright to see the military's plan to wrestle political power away from the peoples popular choice and towards one of the militaries choice. This is an absolute perversion of democracy and the majority of Thailand's population can see it quite clearly.

However, historically, there has been a long list of military coups in Thailand. And historically, the underclass has always been powerless to overthrow military regimes imposed on them. This current situation is no different. We have martial law still imposed on provinces where resistance to the military regime is considered a threat. We have censorship of the electronic media (TV). We have road blocks preventing mass transport of the rural poor from getting to Bangkok to protest against this perversion of democracy. And, of course we have the fact that the vast majority of the countries underclass who oppose the military junta, and its plan to pervert the course of democracy, are simply too poor to neglect their daily duty to try and feed a family to go to Bangkok and protest. Add into that equation the fact that poor in Thailand have been downtrodden by a ruling elite backed by military force since pre-history, and you get a culture of acceptance from many of the countries rural underclass that resistance is futile. However, the one thing that Thaksin and the TRT gave the Thai underclass, and especially the rural poor, was hope. Hope that their voice in a democracy counted for something. And hope for a better life and perhaps a little greater share in the countries wealth.

It seems certain that the military juntas plan to pervert the course of democracy in Thailand is well on track and will probably succeed in the short term. However, the poor underclass have seen hope. They have had a small taste of democracy. And this current repressive regime can not hold back that desire for equality and freedom in the long term.

Unless Thailand regresses permanently to a repressive military regime like Burma, democracy and the will of the people will eventually triumph over the military dictatorship and perversion of democracy they try to impose on the people.

However true democracy holds some challenges for Thailand. Not only would better wages and conditions for the underclass poor upset the traditional balance of power between the minority elite ruling class and the majority poor, but it would also have economic ramifications for the country as a whole. A redistribution of wealth in Thailand would mean that the cost of labour to produce cheap export commodities would not be competitive with other developing Asian nations. But one has to ask the question, -- is it really in Thailand's interest to maintain a peasant underclass, simply to compete with less developed nations in the region and to provide an opulent lifestyle for the elite? Is that really in Thailand's best interests long term, or is it just in the best interests of those individuals in power in Thailand at the moment?

[ColPyat]

so, all in all, pretty much an unmitigated flop, then?

What would i know? The only thing that i know was that my guess it that it was about 20 000 protesters, and that is has out sized the both Royal Plaza demonstrations, and that it was a number that many people here on the board would have never thought possible. If you go back a few months i have stated several times that the at that time only a few hundred protesters at most were only a beginning, after which i was ridiculed by you, Plus, etc.

Personally, i think that this number of people shows clearly that these protests are not going away anymore, that it finally has reached a momentum to be reckoned with, and should be countered with a compromise, urgently.

You may ridicule it, if it satisfies you for some unknown reason, but i am very worried that things will get out of hand.

[Mid]

Protests start to multiply

(Agencies)

Thousands of monks and supporters blocked traffic and started a one-day hunger strike in front of Parliament on Monday to demand that Buddhism be declared the national religion in the new constitution.

The campaign is the latest in a growing number of protests that the Council for National Security, as the coup leaders now call themselves, are being forced to address.

The Post Publishing Public Co

[Jai Dee]

Chart Thai leader wants PTV mobs to abide by the law

Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silpa-archa says he would like the People’s Television (PTV) demonstrators to accept and abide by the law.

Mr. Banharn says he is worried about the PTV rallies, especially on June 17th and 24th because many people are expected to join them. He is afraid that violence will occur and spread to other areas. Therefore, he would like the leading PTV members to stay within the framework of law. At the same time, he asks police and army officers to carry on their duties patiently.

Mr. Banharn says he feels for the executives of political parties who have been barred from politics. However, he would like them to accept the Constitutional Tribunal’s verdict. He also asks the government to quickly propose the Political Party Act to the National Legislative Assembly (NLA) in order to ease the political tension.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 11 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

PM affirms Govt. to stick to reconciliation means when dealing with protestors

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont affirms the government will stick to reconciliation means with protestors. However he has warned that protestors and chaos may lead to negative impact on the Kingdom.

Regarding the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship's major rally on June 16th, PM says he has instructed security units to try to compromise with the demonstrators and affirms they can stage the rally as long as they abide by laws and have no intentions to create violence.

Gen.Surayud also says there is still no need to enforce emergency decree to control the situation.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 11 June 2007

[ando]

Does it seem ironic to anyone else but me that the current military dictatorship is calling for people to abide by the law and not to resort to violence when they, themselves seized power using armed soldiers. Given, it was a bloodless coup, but the threat that any resistance would be shot or otherwise violently overcome was quite obvious. I am quite sure that if the peaceful protests get too big the military dictators would have no qualms in suppressing them by stirring up violent confrontations.

Of course such violent confrontations and political oppression would all be in the name of promoting peaceful reconciliation in the country, -- all be it at the point of a gun.

[Siripon]

And why wouldnt the Thai underclass feel like they are being taken for a ride against the course of democracy?

It is the Thai underclass who make up the majority of voters and therefore decide who will be the political rulers of their country. It is the Thai underclass who put the TRT in power simply because it offered them and their children the best hope for a better life. Now that hope is being taken away from them by men in military uniform armed with guns and tanks.

We can argue here about the technical points of law and the micro-concepts involved in every little stage of this sagas development, but when you step back and look at the big picture its plain to see that the coup was intended solely to oppose democracy and impose a replacement government through a pseudo-democratic process against the wishes of the majority of voters.

Just take a look at the sequence of events so far.

1. The military take over the legitimate government by force of arms.

2. The military impose martial law on the land, lifting it only in places where they have political support and maintaining it in places where people are angered by this slight on democracy.

3. The military bans all political activity from all parties, but writes a new constitution to suit their needs and calls for fresh elections in a years time.

4.. The military appoints a tribunal of judges who dissolve the countries most popular political party and bans its executives from political activity for 5 years.

5. Only days after banning the countries most popular political party, the military junta then allows political activity from the non-banned parties.

One doesn't have to be too bright to see the military's plan to wrestle political power away from the peoples popular choice and towards one of the militaries choice. This is an absolute perversion of democracy and the majority of Thailand's population can see it quite clearly.

However, historically, there has been a long list of military coups in Thailand. And historically, the underclass has always been powerless to overthrow military regimes imposed on them. This current situation is no different. We have martial law still imposed on provinces where resistance to the military regime is considered a threat. We have censorship of the electronic media (TV). We have road blocks preventing mass transport of the rural poor from getting to Bangkok to protest against this perversion of democracy. And, of course we have the fact that the vast majority of the countries underclass who oppose the military junta, and its plan to pervert the course of democracy, are simply too poor to neglect their daily duty to try and feed a family to go to Bangkok and protest. Add into that equation the fact that poor in Thailand have been downtrodden by a ruling elite backed by military force since pre-history, and you get a culture of acceptance from many of the countries rural underclass that resistance is futile. However, the one thing that Thaksin and the TRT gave the Thai underclass, and especially the rural poor, was hope. Hope that their voice in a democracy counted for something. And hope for a better life and perhaps a little greater share in the countries wealth.

It seems certain that the military juntas plan to pervert the course of democracy in Thailand is well on track and will probably succeed in the short term. However, the poor underclass have seen hope. They have had a small taste of democracy. And this current repressive regime can not hold back that desire for equality and freedom in the long term.

Unless Thailand regresses permanently to a repressive military regime like Burma, democracy and the will of the people will eventually triumph over the military dictatorship and perversion of democracy they try to impose on the people.

However true democracy holds some challenges for Thailand. Not only would better wages and conditions for the underclass poor upset the traditional balance of power between the minority elite ruling class and the majority poor, but it would also have economic ramifications for the country as a whole. A redistribution of wealth in Thailand would mean that the cost of labour to produce cheap export commodities would not be competitive with other developing Asian nations. But one has to ask the question, -- is it really in Thailand's interest to maintain a peasant underclass, simply to compete with less developed nations in the region and to provide an opulent lifestyle for the elite? Is that really in Thailand's best interests long term, or is it just in the best interests of those individuals in power in Thailand at the moment?

Did you listen to Surayud's speech on TV last night? I believe it was printed in the English newspapers today.

He explained the reasons for the coup, the need to see laws especially in relation to corruption obeyed and consequently a real democracy.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent members of TRT from forming a new party. Surely with a voter base of 14 million they can find enough candidates to run? Already Suwat is talking about using his wife to run, Somsak may have to look further as his wife was an MP too, but there must be people of high enough calibre to enter the race. And if they win they can alter the constitution if they don't like it, or they can vote no for the present constitution as it looks like the army have said they will use the 1997 one with a few amendments if the proposed one is rejected.

[ando]

Did you listen to Surayud's speech on TV last night? I believe it was printed in the English newspapers today.

He explained the reasons for the coup, the need to see laws especially in relation to corruption obeyed and consequently a real democracy.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent members of TRT from forming a new party. Surely with a voter base of 14 million they can find enough candidates to run? Already Suwat is talking about using his wife to run, Somsak may have to look further as his wife was an MP too, but there must be people of high enough calibre to enter the race. And if they win they can alter the constitution if they don't like it, or they can vote no for the present constitution as it looks like the army have said they will use the 1997 one with a few amendments if the proposed one is rejected.

The reasons for the coup are the same as the reasons for any coup,--- to overthrow the government and install a government of the militarises liking.

As to your assumption that the majority of voters who previously supported TRT will have a viable alternative to represent their needs in the next few months, I think you are either insincere or naive.

Trouble is that in the military dictators rush to push through a pseudo-democracy as fast as possible before the TRT or another party of the popular peoples choice can reform, the country may end up with a government that is neither popular with the people nor the military. And you know what that means,-- -- another coup. And another setback to democracy in Thailand.

[tettyan]

Does it seem ironic to anyone else but me that the current military dictatorship is calling for people to abide by the law and not to resort to violence when they, themselves seized power using armed soldiers.

The sad thing about the "rule of law" (or lack thereof) in Thailand is that the law here has never existed to protect people's rights. Rather, the law has always been seen by all as a tool of the authorities to control the populace and impose their will. Unless people begin understanding that the law exists as a tool to protect them, they're not going to respect it any more.

Repeated calls by the authorities for those unhappy with the military gov't to respect the "rule of law" is only going to reinforce people's cynicism toward the law.

Without the "rule of law," there's no way to guard against future Thaksin's (or whatever their names may be) from rising to power. Unfortunately Thailand is farther away from the "rule of law" today than it ever was.

When the Thai version of Hugo Chavez or Robert Mugabe rises to power in the future, I think some of us will start to miss Thaksin a little more.

[Insight]

Just had a call from the missus who was supposed to be attending English lessons at Thammasat Uni near Sanam Luang. Apparently the lessons have been called off and they've been told to evacuate with a haste - related to protests kicking off regarding today's decision by the AEC.

Not sure if there are protests kicking off, or it's just a precaution (I hope!). Just hope I get a phone call soon to tell me she's on the boat out of there.

[hammered]

If the protests turn violent support for them will decrease as long as the authorities are not seen overreacting. If it looks like mobs attacking the police the authorites position will be strengthened. If on the other hand the authorities overeact or are seen as starting it the sympathy for the protestors will increase. A dangerous game.

The old 2bangkok report pretty much summed it up on their front page today

The AEC freezing of the assets will no doubt crank tension up a notch.

Edited June 11, 2007 by hammered

[Insight]

Just made contact, all good. Still unsure as to what the panic was about though - will report back later if anything noteworthy.

[Johpa]

Personally, i think that this number of people shows clearly that these protests are not going away anymore, that it finally has reached a momentum to be reckoned with, and should be countered with a compromise, urgently.

You may ridicule it, if it satisfies you for some unknown reason, but i am very worried that things will get out of hand.

I also worry that the hand that kept such untidyness from getting too far out of control is losing sway and is perhaps out of touch with political reality. This is not a time for octogenarians like Prem to be taking leading roles.

[Edonista]

they expect 10,000

it will end with a few hundreds of people protesting, and maybe a taxi driver that will slam his car in protest.

tomorrow TRT will say that it was over then expected and that there were over 10,000.

howis the kool aid highdiver, still sipping it i see, well let me pour you another glass

you are right, it is not 10,000 it is more....

Thailand: 13,000 protest military-backed rule

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

in one post they said 20,000

in your post you said 13,000 however your link to jpost says 10,000

the nation also quates 10,000

bangkok post quates around 10,000

as I said before ....a few hundred protestors all dressed up and shouting led by a corrupt politician.

the remaing people are the ones who are usualy on the streets and are just following to see the action as there is nothing better to do.

as with any facts given about any rally in any country the figures are always exegerated as they make good headlines.

now run a long and get me that ale. and make sure it has a lot of ice...

Are you really this obtuse or are you on Junta payroll to deny the evidence ?

[Tony Clifton]

The man was assaulted. Both BP and the Nation said he was talking to foreign journalists when the trouble started.

And several reports said that he appeared to be intoxicated, including the "daily news".

Was that before or after getting kicked in the head?

[ColPyat]

The man was assaulted. Both BP and the Nation said he was talking to foreign journalists when the trouble started.

And several reports said that he appeared to be intoxicated, including the "daily news".

Was that before or after getting kicked in the head?

Before.

[Edonista]

Despite what for Thailand is a reasonable sized rally, all the signs are....

1. The draft constitution will be passed at referendum

2. Elections will take place on time

3. the CNS and military will disappear into the hole from where they came...

Now that's an outlook a whole lot rosier than 3 months ago... we just have to keep our fingers crossed...

true words of wisdom

the militery appointed govermant has done exactly what it promised. they are on time with everything they said.

its mostly dooms day brigade and defenders of the "thailand is in such a bad state" that are posting all the flaming remark.

Astonishing.

You remember me Saddam Hussein's Minister of Information, the guy stating each day Iraq was winning big time and Allied troops were on the run....how things ended we all know.

[ColPyat]

Personally, i think that this number of people shows clearly that these protests are not going away anymore, that it finally has reached a momentum to be reckoned with, and should be countered with a compromise, urgently.

You may ridicule it, if it satisfies you for some unknown reason, but i am very worried that things will get out of hand.

I also worry that the hand that kept such untidyness from getting too far out of control is losing sway and is perhaps out of touch with political reality. This is not a time for octogenarians like Prem to be taking leading roles.

More and more voices from even very unexpected quarters are asking similar questions.

[SiamSquare123]

it is amazing how many of you clowns are convinced that Thai people are anti-junta. Do you NOT realize that TRT supporters did not finish grade school, do not read, do not understand politics and are being paid to come to bangkok to protest, the same way they were paid to vote in the first place??

[Siripon]

Did you listen to Surayud's speech on TV last night? I believe it was printed in the English newspapers today.

He explained the reasons for the coup, the need to see laws especially in relation to corruption obeyed and consequently a real democracy.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent members of TRT from forming a new party. Surely with a voter base of 14 million they can find enough candidates to run? Already Suwat is talking about using his wife to run, Somsak may have to look further as his wife was an MP too, but there must be people of high enough calibre to enter the race. And if they win they can alter the constitution if they don't like it, or they can vote no for the present constitution as it looks like the army have said they will use the 1997 one with a few amendments if the proposed one is rejected.

The reasons for the coup are the same as the reasons for any coup,--- to overthrow the government and install a government of the militarises liking.

As to your assumption that the majority of voters who previously supported TRT will have a viable alternative to represent their needs in the next few months, I think you are either insincere or naive.

Trouble is that in the military dictators rush to push through a pseudo-democracy as fast as possible before the TRT or another party of the popular peoples choice can reform, the country may end up with a government that is neither popular with the people nor the military. And you know what that means,-- -- another coup. And another setback to democracy in Thailand.

Don't generalise about coups. This coup was about disgust with Thaksin, middle class support was overwhelming, I never saw families supporting the troops in 1991.

Tell me why TRT cannot form a new party if they have 14 million supporters?

Regarding Thaksin, I think he's got 3 strategies in mind:

1. Provoke Sonthi and the army to react violently, ie resign in a week or else! The TRT diehards want a fight and Thaksin naturally will provide the funds; constant goading and acts of violence to force a state of emergency or hopefully a second coup could provide useful in claims of political asylum and hence invalid charges of corruption etc, because the government were a military dictatorship!

2 If plan 1 fails, pay nominees of TRT to set up a party and contest the election.

3. As with the present PTV who copy the PAD rallies, 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery' right boys?, copy The Democrats and boycott the next election ,there's no way the Democrats can get 20% of the votes in Issan. Under the proposed constitution only 95% of constitutencies need to have elected members, unlike the previous constitution which required 100%, but it's still enough to cause the whole process to collapse.

Therefore I urge the Democrats, Chart Thai and Mahachon to set up friendly parties to run in Issan to avoid the 20% rule.

[ColPyat]

Therefore I urge the Democrats, Chart Thai and Mahachon to set up friendly parties to run in Issan to avoid the 20% rule.

...and doing more or less the exact same thing that TRT has done to avoid the opposition boycott, resulting in their dissolution. But i guess when the Democrats are doing it, it is all right.

[SiamSquare123]

step 1 - become a champion of the disenfranchised, poor who have been getting screwed over by those in the cities

step 2 - now that you are in power, rob the country blind and destroy the countries check and balances

Step 3 - (oops, the Thai Coup was Step 3)

Edited June 11, 2007 by SiamSquare123

[Edonista]

And why wouldnt the Thai underclass feel like they are being taken for a ride against the course of democracy?

It is the Thai underclass who make up the majority of voters and therefore decide who will be the political rulers of their country. It is the Thai underclass who put the TRT in power simply because it offered them and their children the best hope for a better life. Now that hope is being taken away from them by men in military uniform armed with guns and tanks.

We can argue here about the technical points of law and the micro-concepts involved in every little stage of this sagas development, but when you step back and look at the big picture its plain to see that the coup was intended solely to oppose democracy and impose a replacement government through a pseudo-democratic process against the wishes of the majority of voters.

Just take a look at the sequence of events so far.

1. The military take over the legitimate government by force of arms.

2. The military impose martial law on the land, lifting it only in places where they have political support and maintaining it in places where people are angered by this slight on democracy.

3. The military bans all political activity from all parties, but writes a new constitution to suit their needs and calls for fresh elections in a years time.

4.. The military appoints a tribunal of judges who dissolve the countries most popular political party and bans its executives from political activity for 5 years.

5. Only days after banning the countries most popular political party, the military junta then allows political activity from the non-banned parties.

One doesn't have to be too bright to see the military's plan to wrestle political power away from the peoples popular choice and towards one of the militaries choice. This is an absolute perversion of democracy and the majority of Thailand's population can see it quite clearly.

However, historically, there has been a long list of military coups in Thailand. And historically, the underclass has always been powerless to overthrow military regimes imposed on them. This current situation is no different. We have martial law still imposed on provinces where resistance to the military regime is considered a threat. We have censorship of the electronic media (TV). We have road blocks preventing mass transport of the rural poor from getting to Bangkok to protest against this perversion of democracy. And, of course we have the fact that the vast majority of the countries underclass who oppose the military junta, and its plan to pervert the course of democracy, are simply too poor to neglect their daily duty to try and feed a family to go to Bangkok and protest. Add into that equation the fact that poor in Thailand have been downtrodden by a ruling elite backed by military force since pre-history, and you get a culture of acceptance from many of the countries rural underclass that resistance is futile. However, the one thing that Thaksin and the TRT gave the Thai underclass, and especially the rural poor, was hope. Hope that their voice in a democracy counted for something. And hope for a better life and perhaps a little greater share in the countries wealth.

It seems certain that the military juntas plan to pervert the course of democracy in Thailand is well on track and will probably succeed in the short term. However, the poor underclass have seen hope. They have had a small taste of democracy. And this current repressive regime can not hold back that desire for equality and freedom in the long term.

Unless Thailand regresses permanently to a repressive military regime like Burma, democracy and the will of the people will eventually triumph over the military dictatorship and perversion of democracy they try to impose on the people.

However true democracy holds some challenges for Thailand. Not only would better wages and conditions for the underclass poor upset the traditional balance of power between the minority elite ruling class and the majority poor, but it would also have economic ramifications for the country as a whole. A redistribution of wealth in Thailand would mean that the cost of labour to produce cheap export commodities would not be competitive with other developing Asian nations. But one has to ask the question, -- is it really in Thailand's interest to maintain a peasant underclass, simply to compete with less developed nations in the region and to provide an opulent lifestyle for the elite? Is that really in Thailand's best interests long term, or is it just in the best interests of those individuals in power in Thailand at the moment?

Great post.

Thank heavens there is someone on this site that fights the horrible disinformation spred by "members" <edit>

My thanks go also to ColPyat for all the noble efforts he has shown in this thread

Edited June 11, 2007 by Totster
Removed names

[palm]

it is amazing how many of you clowns are convinced that Thai people are anti-junta. Do you NOT realize that TRT supporters did not finish grade school, do not read, do not understand politics and are being paid to come to bangkok to protest, the same way they were paid to vote in the first place??

Spot on.

[Siripon]

Therefore I urge the Democrats, Chart Thai and Mahachon to set up friendly parties to run in Issan to avoid the 20% rule.

...and doing more or less the exact same thing that TRT has done to avoid the opposition boycott, resulting in their dissolution. But i guess when the Democrats are doing it, it is all right.

Tongue in cheek, colonel....

[Edonista]

it is amazing how many of you clowns are convinced that Thai people are anti-junta. Do you NOT realize that TRT supporters did not finish grade school, do not read, do not understand politics and are being paid to come to bangkok to protest, the same way they were paid to vote in the first place??

But they understand their empty stomachs

[SiamSquare123]

you must be a huge fan of what hugo chavez is doing in venezulea right now.

[younghusband]

And why wouldnt the Thai underclass feel like they are being taken for a ride against the course of democracy?

It is the Thai underclass who make up the majority of voters and therefore decide who will be the political rulers of their country. It is the Thai underclass who put the TRT in power simply because it offered them and their children the best hope for a better life. Now that hope is being taken away from them by men in military uniform armed with guns and tanks.

We can argue here about the technical points of law and the micro-concepts involved in every little stage of this sagas development, but when you step back and look at the big picture its plain to see that the coup was intended solely to oppose democracy and impose a replacement government through a pseudo-democratic process against the wishes of the majority of voters.

Just take a look at the sequence of events so far.

1. The military take over the legitimate government by force of arms.

2. The military impose martial law on the land, lifting it only in places where they have political support and maintaining it in places where people are angered by this slight on democracy.

3. The military bans all political activity from all parties, but writes a new constitution to suit their needs and calls for fresh elections in a years time.

4.. The military appoints a tribunal of judges who dissolve the countries most popular political party and bans its executives from political activity for 5 years.

5. Only days after banning the countries most popular political party, the military junta then allows political activity from the non-banned parties.

One doesn't have to be too bright to see the military's plan to wrestle political power away from the peoples popular choice and towards one of the militaries choice. This is an absolute perversion of democracy and the majority of Thailand's population can see it quite clearly.

However, historically, there has been a long list of military coups in Thailand. And historically, the underclass has always been powerless to overthrow military regimes imposed on them. This current situation is no different. We have martial law still imposed on provinces where resistance to the military regime is considered a threat. We have censorship of the electronic media (TV). We have road blocks preventing mass transport of the rural poor from getting to Bangkok to protest against this perversion of democracy. And, of course we have the fact that the vast majority of the countries underclass who oppose the military junta, and its plan to pervert the course of democracy, are simply too poor to neglect their daily duty to try and feed a family to go to Bangkok and protest. Add into that equation the fact that poor in Thailand have been downtrodden by a ruling elite backed by military force since pre-history, and you get a culture of acceptance from many of the countries rural underclass that resistance is futile. However, the one thing that Thaksin and the TRT gave the Thai underclass, and especially the rural poor, was hope. Hope that their voice in a democracy counted for something. And hope for a better life and perhaps a little greater share in the countries wealth.

It seems certain that the military juntas plan to pervert the course of democracy in Thailand is well on track and will probably succeed in the short term. However, the poor underclass have seen hope. They have had a small taste of democracy. And this current repressive regime can not hold back that desire for equality and freedom in the long term.

Unless Thailand regresses permanently to a repressive military regime like Burma, democracy and the will of the people will eventually triumph over the military dictatorship and perversion of democracy they try to impose on the people.

However true democracy holds some challenges for Thailand. Not only would better wages and conditions for the underclass poor upset the traditional balance of power between the minority elite ruling class and the majority poor, but it would also have economic ramifications for the country as a whole. A redistribution of wealth in Thailand would mean that the cost of labour to produce cheap export commodities would not be competitive with other developing Asian nations. But one has to ask the question, -- is it really in Thailand's interest to maintain a peasant underclass, simply to compete with less developed nations in the region and to provide an opulent lifestyle for the elite? Is that really in Thailand's best interests long term, or is it just in the best interests of those individuals in power in Thailand at the moment?

Did you listen to Surayud's speech on TV last night? I believe it was printed in the English newspapers today.

He explained the reasons for the coup, the need to see laws especially in relation to corruption obeyed and consequently a real democracy.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent members of TRT from forming a new party. Surely with a voter base of 14 million they can find enough candidates to run? Already Suwat is talking about using his wife to run, Somsak may have to look further as his wife was an MP too, but there must be people of high enough calibre to enter the race. And if they win they can alter the constitution if they don't like it, or they can vote no for the present constitution as it looks like the army have said they will use the 1997 one with a few amendments if the proposed one is rejected.

It wasn't a bad speech and quite cleverly put together, and much more specific than hitherto on the Thaksin offence slate.Interesting that he mentioned some TRT policies were excellent and would become a permanent part of Thai policy, notably Thaksin's universal health care initiative.Interesting also he emphasized the frightening gap betwen the haves and have nots, which he correctly identified as the root cause of today's tragic political divisions in Thailand.Interesting for what he did not mention, the absurd self sufficiency "why rich feudalists think the poor should remain poor" economic theory, for example.Finally he laid great stress on the rule of law, but it's obviously difficult to sustain credibility on that front when you are the leader of government that has illegally seized power from a government with majority support.But against my better judgement I rather like this guy, a decent cove who obviously is keen for a personal sayonara.The old booby is I suspect nevertheless fully aware that sermonising on democracy by the boys who burned down the barn is probably going to have limited impact.