Best Way In ?

[wolf5370]

I have a friend who lives in the UK. He is English with a Thai wife (married about 10 years). He has a son from a preceeding marriage who is a farang too; and two kids with his Thai wife. They were wed legally in LOS, all of them have British passports (she also has a valid Thai one).

He is in his early 30's and currently works in the IT Industry. They are fairly wealthy (not £millionaires).

They are looking to move to LOS at some point over the next few years. The aim is that he does not need to work. They will buy a property on the outscirts of Chiang Mai. He beleives he can live quite comfortable on the interest from his lump sum.

The question he asked me - and I've passed the buck - is what Visa's should he apply for. The Farang Noi can get Thai passports I suppose, so its really him and his Farang son. As he does not intend to work, presumeabvly he does not need a work permit. If they apply for a marriage visa, then the rules state he has to show his work permit etc? Is this waved if he can prove income from interest. He is warry of putting all his money in Thai banks or investing in Thai companies.

He also wants to do this straight, that isn not on a tourist visa with 3 month border runs.

The long term aim is residency and perhaps citizenship. Any ideas?

[teelac888]

firstly, the Thai lady already has or soon will (at least as soon as the neighbors squeal to the police when they get back here) give up her land rights, because she has married a farang. so, buying that property around chiang mai will be tricky.

the other negative thing is that under no circumstances should he think he can ever get thai citizenship because he won't. there seems to be plenty of lawyers who will take your money forever based on that promise but there are never any results.

probably the best thing to do would be to set up a low-cost joint venture. since he already has 3 of the thais he needs closeby and trustworthy it will be easy (he needs a mixture of thai and farang owners but there must always be one more thai than farangs). this would give him several things: 1. a way to buy that house, 2. a one-year visa, 3. a way to do hassle-free business because someone that young isn't going to retire forever.

check out my favorite lawyer boonsom kongsri at 66 soi asoke in bangkok. guy has a long reputation of honesty and the highest standing. started with a desk in a travel agency on soi nana and runs a large office now.

good luck

[Phil Conners]

I believe the "Thai wife married to farang can't buy land" restriction was removed some time ago.

Citizenship isn't all that interesting. You can try for a residence permit after 3 years uninterrupted visas but there are a lot of strings attached. Search for it here.

The loophole of using a company to buy land is being cracked down on as we speak.

He needs to get a Non-immigrant "O" visa prior to getting here. Once here he can apply for a one year extension to that on the basis of marriage to a Thai. Again, it has been discussed extensively here, search for it.

Before starting a company be sure you understand all the costs involved. Not only is there a charge to open the company, there is an equally big cost to have it closed down should you want to, and finally there is an annual cost of maintaining the company (i.e. having the books made and paying taxes). Two words: Don't bother.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

firstly, the Thai lady already has or soon will (at least as soon as the neighbors squeal to the police when they get back here) give up her land rights, because she has married a farang. so, buying that property around chiang mai will be tricky.

the other negative thing is that under no circumstances should he think he can ever get thai citizenship because he won't. there seems to be plenty of lawyers who will take your money forever based on that promise but there are never any results.

probably the best thing to do would be to set up a low-cost joint venture. since he already has 3 of the thais he needs closeby and trustworthy it will be easy (he needs a mixture of thai and farang owners but there must always be one more thai than farangs). this would give him several things: 1. a way to buy that house, 2. a one-year visa, 3. a way to do hassle-free business because someone that young isn't going to retire forever.

check out my favorite lawyer boonsom kongsri at 66 soi asoke in bangkok. guy has a long reputation of honesty and the highest standing. started with a desk in a travel agency on soi nana and runs a large office now.

good luck

If you are going to guess the answers DO NOT REPLY. All wrong info.

[wolf5370]

Hi guys,

I have already given him the info on property etc - I have a fair amount myself.

His wife owns the land (he signs to form to say he has no inherritance rights). A contract between wife and husband (and a will) - land goes to kids. He owns house.

They have been married a long time, he has many more assets than worrying about her kicking him out and keeping the land.

The question I can't answer is can he have his Marriage Visa without a work permit. Can he just live on his foreign earnings - interest - if he still covers the bank balance rules in LOS? (I don't mean physically, that his business, I mean legally). The Visa forms, and info I've seen everywhere, talks about work permits and needing a job in order to support the family - he believes he does not need a job. He basically want to retire and live on his interest, but he's too young for a retirement visa.

I understand that citizenship takes 5 years if you go the residency route (in addition to the 3 year min for res). However, I understand that residency is not required for citizenship; you can go straight there - does anyone know the lead time foor this? (I guess 5-10 years).

Cheers all,

Wolf

PS: Setting up a Ltd company is not inexpesive - it will cost around 150k Baht once everything is paid (capitalisation charges etc) - it also means maintaining an office (and virtual one don't work). Maybe half this if completely Thai hands, but then what is the point.

[lopburi3]

The question I can't answer is can he have his Marriage Visa without a work permit. Can he just live on his foreign earnings - interest - if he still covers the bank balance rules in LOS? (I don't mean physically, that his business, I mean legally).

If he can keep the required bank deposit and show regular deposits from overseas it should not be a problem. It is when local money is used that a work permit is required.

[Digger]

The loophole of using a company to buy land is being cracked down on as we speak.

Before starting a company be sure you understand all the costs involved. Not only is there a charge to open the company, there is an equally big cost to have it closed down should you want to, and finally there is an annual cost of maintaining the company (i.e. having the books made and paying taxes). Two words: Don't bother.

Madscere - what have you heard about land owning companies? I have just had tax investigation on me and in particular one of my companies in Chonburi who own and rent out a property. All rent has been declared and tax paid on it - tax authorities were extremely satisfied and said that there are no problems.

Secondly, owning a company is not difficult or cumbersome compared to the West. If you do it properly, its still the best way to protect your assets and the costs by western standards are tiny.

For my perspective, I would tend to suggest this guy goes for an elite card - then no issue with company, visa runs, work permits etc. small price to pay for peace of mind (unles of course another govt comes into power but I cant see that happening next time around nor can I see one coming into power that is more Thai-centric than TRT)

[LivinLOS]

The Elite card !!! Please stop.. I am laughing too hard !!!

1m Baht for a few discounted rounds of golf on the most expensive courses and a 5 year visa.. The 'right' to put the land title in the name of a private company that could go bust so you sorta / maybe own it (in the same way you could have a company and own it)..

As far as I can see the elite cards have failed miserably.. They have come no where near thier target of what they needed to sell and the project looks doomed to failure and to be shut down. Its a privately held company (is my understanding) and how long until the close the doors on it ?? 5 years ?? 10 ?? who knows but I sure as ###### would not want my land title held by anyone who I know nothing about and have no control over.

In true local logic I heard that as they had sold so few of them and not atttracted the quality tourists they thought they would, they were considering making them 2m instead !!!

As said by others, the option for a O visa on the basis of your marrige and proof of 40k month coming in should suffice your permanent stay, your wife can own land and you can own any property on it, you could also get a 3x 30 year lease from the landowner (your wife) though there are some legal questions on the 2 and 3rd extensions of this depending on who you talk to.

Then again I suspect you are in a stable long term marriage with a respectable Thai lady and not jumpin in feet first with a girl of unknown background etc (I would not even point this out if it was not for the high rate of these issues in Thailand)... In your case it all sounds very possible and best of luck with the relocation.

[Phil Conners]

Digger, all I know is I had a call from my lawyer asking me what I was using my company for, double checking I hadn't bough a house with it. Asking why the reply I got was that it would have meant trouble. Could just have been a matter of taxation I suppose, didn't pursue the issue as I hadn't.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Digger, all I know is I had a call from my lawyer asking me what I was using my company for, double checking I hadn't bough a house with it. Asking why the reply I got was that it would have meant trouble. Could just have been a matter of taxation I suppose, didn't pursue the issue as I hadn't.

I hear that farang run companies are being looked at by authorities, to establish whether or not the companies do own property, and if they do own property, what is the purpose of the ownership.

[LivinLOS]

Yes I have also heard that simply incorporating a co to own the land that a house is then based on is going to start to cause problems... This has always been a rule (eg a companies sole purpose cannot be a shell to own land) but largely ignored.

[Digger]

Digger, all I know is I had a call from my lawyer asking me what I was using my company for, double checking I hadn't bough a house with it. Asking why the reply I got was that it would have meant trouble. Could just have been a matter of taxation I suppose, didn't pursue the issue as I hadn't.

I hear that farang run companies are being looked at by authorities, to establish whether or not the companies do own property, and if they do own property, what is the purpose of the ownership.

Interesting observations. That would be consistent to a degree with what they were investigating - seems many are not making proper returns on these land owning companies. Some are making returns and paying taxes and then some who own and rent are making full declarations and paying rental and corporation tax on the rental income as a normal business.

Still, if this goes much deeper there might be a very large number of wealthy farang who thought they were playing by the rules suddenly coming unstuck with their property assets in Thailand. Won't do much or the property boom either in Pattaya and Phuket given that almost everyone I know who owns property here has it set up in exactly the same way via company ownership

[astral]

Some are making returns and paying taxes and then some who own and rent are making full declarations and paying rental and corporation tax on the rental income as a normal business.

If you own property through a company you need a back to back rental agreement whereby you lease the house from your company.

You need to do annual tax returns and pay a minimal amount of tax.

My total annual bill is around 15,000 baht (lawyer/accountant/tax)

However, remember the golden rule.

Do not invest more in Thailand than you are prepared to walk away from!!

Edited July 6, 2004 by astral