installing new 205 QS Mitsubishi pump

[poobear]

Hello I just installed a new pump attached to an underground tank and my wife said the instruction told her to remove the spring under the screw cap on the inlet manifold on top of the tank. Does this sound correct?   Also when you install your pump do you use a brass fitting or plastic. When I tape and install the brass fittings they almost always leak and require a couple of redos. Any advise on how you do this here is appreciated. Thanks

[couchpotato]

PVC fittings is fine.

Your wife is reading the instructions wrongly. The pump actually has to be water primed before using for the first time. I sometimes by loosen the spring cap to release any trapped air.

The instructions usually have little diagrams along with the print. Happy pumping.

[poobear]

We are priming the pump with waterbefore starting but my wife insist the instructions say to remove spring permanently  if you are pumping from underground tank. The pump seems to work but does not sound right to me. No helpful diagram.

[carlyai]

I've an underground tank in the Pattaya house and never removed the spring to my Mitsbishi pump. 

You could try it with the spring and without the spring and see what happens.

I can vaguely remember people saying remove the pump spring, but can' remember why. Anyway I didn't and pump works fine.

With the white tape: Just wind heaps on. When you think you have enough, wind some more on. The more the merrier.

I always wind it on clockwise. (You may get someone to say I'm wrong, if so then wind it anticlockwise.) ????

[poobear]

thanks the manual says to remove the spring if the tank is underground but I will also try to run it with the spring in so I don't lose it as I probably switch to an above ground tank. Thanks

[carlyai]

7 minutes ago, poobear said:

thanks the manual says to remove the spring if the tank is underground but I will also try to run it with the spring in so I don't lose it as I probably switch to an above ground tank. Thanks

Depending on the size of your land, but for a small house block size, an underground tank saves space.

[Encid]

8 hours ago, carlyai said:

Depending on the size of your land, but for a small house block size, an underground tank saves space.

And your water stays cooler... ideal in those stinking hot weeks around Songkran time.

[unheard]

22 minutes ago, Encid said:

And your water stays cooler... ideal in those stinking hot weeks around Songkran time.

An underground tank has a number of disadvantages:

 

Difficult to maintain

Susceptible to float (pushed out by ground water) when near empty

Always at risk of contamination through the lid

Very laborious to replace when the time comes

Edited December 1, 2022 by unheard

[Encid]

5 minutes ago, unheard said:

An underground tank has a number of disadvantages:

 

Difficult to maintain

Susceptible to float (pushed out by ground water) when near empty

Always at risk of contamination through the lid

Very laborious to replace when the time comes

We have one at our current house in Najomtien... built 15 years ago.

We have never needed to maintain it.

We built a Thai kitchen on top of it so the lid has a heavy concrete and tile cover over it... no contamination is possible.

We are connected to the local municipal water supply which is never off for more than a few hours so our tank is never empty.

Why would we need to replace it "when the time comes"?

It never needs maintenance and it doesn't get contaminated.

[carlyai]

'Always at risk of contamination through the lid' I'd agree with this.

[unheard]

1 hour ago, Encid said:

It never needs maintenance and it doesn't get contaminated.

You've never cleaned it??? ????

[Encid]

1 minute ago, unheard said:

You've never cleaned it??? ????

Never needed to.

It doesn't get any sunlight so no algae growth, and there's minimal silt at the bottom of the tank (visible by shining a strong LED torch down into the darkness).

Even the original float valve is still functioning perfectly after 15 years.

 

What cleaning would be needed?

 

Apologies to the OP for going off-topic, but it's just a wee bit off-topic, and possibly of interest as the OP has an underground tank too.

[unheard]

5 minutes ago, Encid said:

What cleaning would be needed?

 

Apologies to the OP for going off-topic, but it's just a wee bit off-topic, and possibly of interest as the OP has an underground tank too.

My apologies as well for hijacking the thread....

Just two more questions.

Aren't you concerned with a layer of sediments accumulated over 15 years, being stirred up and going into suspension every time you refill the tank?

Which water usage purposes?

[Encid]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

Aren't you concerned with a layer of sediments accumulated over 15 years, being stirred up and going into suspension every time you refill the tank?

The tank is never empty so the sediments are never stirred up.

It is really clear water except for when the local water authority cuts a line to add a new branch or something, then we get cloudy water in the supply line for a few hours, but the sediments settle to the bottom... it is probably less than 1 mm thick.

Filled from the top.

 

Clean it out?

How?

Dropping a submersible pump into the tank to suck out the sediment and water from the bottom of the tank is more likely to stir up the sediment than remove it.

 

As you can see I am a big advocate of underground domestic water tanks with only positive experience over 15 years.

And as I said earlier, the temperature differential is noticeable particularly during the hot months.

 

1 hour ago, unheard said:

Which water usage purposes?

Domestic use... showering and washing clothes, filling the pool, watering the garden, NOT for drinking.

We buy 20L bottled water for drinking and cooking purposes.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Encid

[unheard]

22 hours ago, Encid said:

Clean it out?

How?

Domestic use... showering and washing clothes, filling the pool, watering the garden, NOT for drinking.

That's exactly why I call it a disadvantage - from very difficult to impossible to flush sediments out.

But If after 15 years of service the layer of sediment accumulation is only 1 mm thick then it's safe to assume that your provider supplies exceptionally clean water.

Rarely the case in the non-urban Thailand.

That makes an underground tank IMHO to be a viable option only in the areas with clear water supplies.

Edited December 2, 2022 by unheard

[Encid]

48 minutes ago, unheard said:

That's exactly why I call it a disadvantage - from very difficult to impossible to flush sediments out.

But If after 15 years of service the layer of sediment accumulation is only 1 mm thick then it's safe to assume that your provider supplies exceptionally clean water.

Rarely the case in the non-urban Thailand.

That makes an underground tank IMHO to be a viable option only in the areas with clear water supplies.

Fair enough comment.

 

I will keep that in mind for when we do relocate to rural Thailand, and are reliant on bore water and rain water only.

The bore water is solar powered pump driven, and the rainwater will be collected and directed to an above-ground tank.

There is no municipal water supply where we will be building our house.

 

As our water supply will be predominantly stored in above ground tankage then pumped to our house location, I was thinking that an underground tank (about 3,000 litre capacity) would serve us well. We will have a dedicated water pump for the house... we want strong water pressure so PPE piping and probably a Grundfos Scala 2 pump.

 

Underground tanks maintain a cooler temperature in the hot summer months (most of the year) and stay warmer in the cool season (be it ever so short) due to the insulation that the soil around them provides.

 

We could locate it say in the garage (not near the cars are parked where contamination from oil could occur) or a walkway under a RC floor (which would stop it from floating in the unlikely event that it was ever emptied) and any suspended solids or sediment in the feed water would be precipitated out in the above ground storage tanks before reaching our underground storage tank.

 

Filters will be used to remove any calcium hardness and any bacterial load.

(We have not tested our bore water yet... probably next week or the week after).

I repeat... the water will ONLY be used for dishwashing / showers / clothes washing, and NOT for drinking.

 

Thoughts?

[carlyai]

20 minutes ago, Encid said:

Fair enough comment.

 

I will keep that in mind for when we do relocate to rural Thailand, and are reliant on bore water and rain water only.

The bore water is solar powered pump driven, and the rainwater will be collected and directed to an above-ground tank.

There is no municipal water supply where we will be building our house.

 

As our water supply will be predominantly stored in above ground tankage then pumped to our house location, I was thinking that an underground tank (about 3,000 litre capacity) would serve us well. We will have a dedicated water pump for the house... we want strong water pressure so PPE piping and probably a Grundfos Scala 2 pump.

 

Underground tanks maintain a cooler temperature in the hot summer months (most of the year) and stay warmer in the cool season (be it ever so short) due to the insulation that the soil around them provides.

 

We could locate it say in the garage (not near the cars are parked where contamination from oil could occur) or a walkway under a RC floor (which would stop it from floating in the unlikely event that it was ever emptied) and any suspended solids or sediment in the feed water would be precipitated out in the above ground storage tanks before reaching our underground storage tank.

 

Filters will be used to remove any calcium hardness and any bacterial load.

(We have not tested our bore water yet... probably next week or the week after).

I repeat... the water will ONLY be used for dishwashing / showers / clothes washing, and NOT for drinking.

 

Thoughts?

Get a map of your aquifer from the Changwat.

See exactly how deep you need the bore and where to locate it.

 

[unheard]

55 minutes ago, Encid said:

Thoughts?

I do see the perceived advantages of the underground storage and yet would never consider having one myself.

In my view the downsides outweigh any advantages

I've just replaced an above ground water tank that's been fed by the village water supply. It's been in service for about 10 years.

The source of water being deep bore wells.

The tank has never been cleaned due to a difficult location which resulted in accumulation of a thick layer of sediment. I'd say at least 5 cm thick.

My private well feeds a different above ground tank which I normally clean once a year.

I also collect rain water which is being stored in another huge above ground concrete tank. I only use it for garden irrigation.

Would never consider it for any other use.

Possibly with good filtering just for dish washing and maybe showering and only if deep well water becomes unavailable.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Encid said:

As our water supply will be predominantly stored in above ground tankage then pumped to our house location, I was thinking that an underground tank (about 3,000 litre capacity) would serve us well. We will have a dedicated water pump for the house... we want strong water pressure so PPE piping and probably a Grundfos Scala 2 pump.

Unless you have an extremely reliable power source I would consider having a ready use thank (500~1000 litres) high enough to provide water flow when the power is out. Our tank isn’t high enough to give great pressure but is high enough to provide enough to continue a shower, fill the toilets and provide hand/plate washing water. This flows because we have used 32mm pipe and 45 degree bends everywhere only dropping down to 12mm at the outlets

[Encid]

16 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Unless you have an extremely reliable power source I would consider having a ready use thank (500~1000 litres) high enough to provide water flow when the power is out. Our tank isn’t high enough to give great pressure but is high enough to provide enough to continue a shower, fill the toilets and provide hand/plate washing water. This flows because we have used 32mm pipe and 45 degree bends everywhere only dropping down to 12mm at the outlets

Our plan is to install an on-grid hybrid PV solar system with (initially) 10kWh of ESS, so I'm hoping that power will not be a problem.

I like the idea of a head tank for emergency use, but it won't suit our building plans.

We will definitely be using 32mm PPR pipe and 45° bends as you suggest, reducing only at the outlets.

[carlyai]

1 minute ago, Encid said:

Our plan is to install an on-grid hybrid PV solar system with (initially) 10kWh of ESS, so I'm hoping that power will not be a problem.

I like the idea of a head tank for emergency use, but it won't suit our building plans.

We will definitely be using 32mm PPR pipe and 45° bends as you suggest, reducing only at the outlets.

I think if you're using a 2 HP submersible you don't need to worry about 45 degree bends.

[sometimewoodworker]

10 minutes ago, carlyai said:

I think if you're using a 2 HP submersible you don't need to worry about 45 degree bends.

The 45 degree bends are not very important for pumped water neither is using 32mm pipe.

 

The importance of the large supply pipe and shallow bends come into play when the power is cut, Then you will find out exactly the benefits and why it’s a really good idea.

 

13 minutes ago, Encid said:

We will definitely be using 32mm PPR pipe and 45° bends as you suggest, reducing only at the outlets.

don’t forget these

without them you have a difficult job DAMHIKT 

[bunnydrops]

Back to the springs. There is something in the instructions about removing the spring. I just looked at my instructions and your wife is correct, for underground the spring should be removed

[poobear]

Thank you very much for bringing the topic around to my original questions.

[Saanim]

On 12/1/2022 at 7:50 PM, Encid said:

Clean it out?

How?

Dropping a submersible pump into the tank to suck out the sediment and water from the bottom of the tank is more likely to stir up the sediment than remove it.

Sure, the submersible pump cannot suck all the dirt unless the bottom does not have a certain small pit 2-3cm deep for placing the pump in and a proper floor slope that brings in the last cms of the water including the dirt.  

 

The same is very advisable to have it at an OverFlow tank of OF swimming pool - that surely needs to clean up more often than after 15 years ????.

 

Not only the underground tanks cleaning is a problem, same is at any tank that is not properly prepared for the draining and flushing. That we experience at all plastic tanks available here in Thailand where the draining outlet (the second one found at the bottom) is not really at the bottom and the bottom is not really in a slope. So, even with a strong spraying thru the top opening the dirt does not go easily out unless the whole tank is moved somehow.

 

Back to the tank sediment: yes, any water system brings a water that is not really H₂O.  So, with the storage and subsequent oxidation something will get down to the bottom. One will be quite surprised seeing it after one year.  That especially when the water source is overly provided with chlorine that speeds up the oxidation. 

 

In my case recently, the chlorination of the city water is so strong, smelling it at every water opening, something like this I do not smell in my swimming pool.  That forces me to fill alternatively 2 tanks, one always keep airing for few days without a discharge into house.

 

Whether a tank needs a cleaning? That's left to one's consideration...

 

[poobear]

In the end, after fixing all the normal thai leaky valves ,facets ect we found that the pump was still cycling every 15 minutes with the outlet valve off. The Mitsubishi service came and reinstalled the spring saying that the spring acted as to force a non return valve sending water back to the tank. He reinstalled the spring and the pump stoped cycling on its own. Mitsubishi says take it out, we call warranty service they put it in. 

 

However the real problem was how many times the pump cycled when I flushed the toilets, at least ten. Spare me the suggestions on how to fix that we heard it all and tried it all. Pipes to short pipes to long, too many bends, pump to small pump too big, put a valve on the intake and lower intake pressure, bleed tank, clean toilet valves ect. ect.ect.    I kept asking if I put in a constant pressure pump would I have the same problems. No yea maybe

 

Today i just switched out the new wp 205 automatic pump with the constant pressure from my old house and problem solved. No constant cycling when we flush the toilets, no leaks , steady pressure all good. 

 

[KhaoYai]

As regards your problems with thread tape - most times when I see a problem is because too much tape has been applied - 4 to 6 cycles should be sufficient.  There is only one way to apply the tape - clockwise, but that depends on how you look at it.  Put simply - the cut end of the tape should face towards the direction of travel when tightening the coupling.  Otherwise the nut will unwind the tape as you turn it.  Be sure to just 'nip' the fitting up - no need to over-tighten when you use thread tape.

 

If you still have problems - I'd suggest buying the liquid version but you will have to thoroughly clean the threads if you dismantle the joint again.

[In the jungle]

On the subject of underground tanks:

 

1.  I clean and sterilise the tank every two years.  In fact I sterilise the entire water system including all pipework downstream of the pump.

 

2.  The water pickup pipe in the tank is a flexible pipe with the pick up point suspended on a float.  The flexible pipe is armoured.  This way the water is taken from approximately 20cm below the water level and the pick up moves up and down depending on the season.  This minimises the possibility of picking up sediment.

 

Water source is ground water from a 6 metre deep well that was dug by hand approximately 40 years ago.  A deeper well would be nice but I am not about dig it. 

[poobear]

I want to thank everyone for their input on underground or above ground tanks, sterilization, sediment temperature, flexible pipe, chlorination of the city water, tanks not properly prepared for the draining and flushing, on-grid hybrid PV solar systems,  perceived advantages of the underground storage, deep bore wells, collecting rain water, a map of your aquifer from the Changwat, relocation to rural Thailand, algae growth, private wells, good filtering, first man on the moon, values of currency in india, calcium hardness and any bacterial load, contamination, oh and that stupid pump and spring question. Hijacked Again!!!

[Saanim]

On 12/11/2022 at 7:35 PM, poobear said:

I want to thank everyone for their input on underground or above ground tanks, sterilization, sediment temperature, flexible pipe, chlorination of the city water, tanks not properly prepared for the draining and flushing, on-grid hybrid PV solar systems,  perceived advantages of the underground storage, deep bore wells, collecting rain water, a map of your aquifer from the Changwat, relocation to rural Thailand, algae growth, private wells, good filtering, first man on the moon, values of currency in india, calcium hardness and any bacterial load, contamination, oh and that stupid pump and spring question. Hijacked Again!!!

And you didn't get an advice what to do when the wife is missing - perhaps hijacked - and your money as well?