Cambodia: Is It A Good Alternative To Thailand?

[JR Texas]

Agree with JetJock - interesting thread. May be worth bumping it up in two or three years...

JR Texas: Thanks for the posts.......very informative. I have a lot invested in Thailand now, so it is not easy to leave, even with the crazy visa/business rules (xenophobic) trying hard to push expats out and prevent them from starting small scale businesses.

For those who keep thinking I am interested in Cambodian universities, think again. The students are, in fact, superior to those in Thailand (smarter and far less spoiled). But I am tired of academia......been there and done that big time. Now, I just want to explore some business ideas.

For those who think they have it made in Thailand because they work for an MNC (that cares nothing about them) and have to kiss the bosses #$% each day and live in a cesspool called Bangkok.........that is far from my concept of "having it made."

I like what Ping said: "Maybe worth bumping it up in two to three years." He was talking about the thread, but it really applies to making the move to Cambodia. But, if places like Sihanoukville are set to take off in the right direction, now is the time to go, not three years from now.

GOOD LUCK!

[duke69]

I fully agree with JR, students in Cambodia are 100 times better than the ones in Thailand, more serious and motivated.

But the students in Thailand are crap and all suck (in every sense of the word).

To move to Cambodia on a LT basis you need to have guts and be ready to face all possible scenario, LoS is much simplier

[astral]

Who would EVER drink the tap water here? Not even a thai would drink this country’s water...

You do not seem to know much about Thailand...............

[bendix]

[

For those who think they have it made in Thailand because they work for an MNC (that cares nothing about them) and have to kiss the bosses #$% each day and live in a cesspool called Bangkok.........that is far from my concept of "having it made."

What a stupid statement. What does that have to do with the discussion? I work for an MNC, and am about to move to Hua Hin where I am semi-retiring and working only three days a week, working every now and again while I sit by my (private) swimming pool and play golf for the rest of the time.

Good luck in Cambo, and be careful of the landmines now. It sounds like you have it made.

[tropo]

but wins hands down (over Thailand) in terms of visas.

I think many of us probably enjoyed Thailand because of the laid back nature of Buddhism......very different from Christianity and Islam.

Regarding visas in the Philippines. Don't have to leave the country. In a year you'll need to do 6 trips to the immigration office to renew (i.e. 60 days x 6). It adds up to about 9,000 baht per annum.

You mentioned Buddhism compared to Christianity. Definitely in the Philippines there is far more freedom. There is no internet censorship and you can talk and say anything you want about anyone. No standing up before in the cinema before a movie is a distinct advantage too, along with widespread English useage.

Cambodia has possibilities, but if faced with a Philippines/Cambodia choice, I'd go with the former.

Malaysia is hard to work out. The first time I went there I really liked it, but the second time around I didn't enjoy it much.

I think it's a good idea to hang loose for at least 3 to 6 months in a new country to test the waters before you get too committed.

[tropo]

There's a flaw in your methodology. You're not going to get real views. You'll get self-justifications from people who pretend they have gone there for the next frontier, but in fact have failed in Thailand. . . .. .

That's an interesting, though biased theory.

Ummm . . of course it's biased. That's why it's a theory. Show me a theory that isn't biased and I'll show you that rare thing indeed, a scientifically substantiated fact.

Let me try to make this less ambiguous for you.

In a number of replies on this thread you have shown an extreme distaste for Cambodia therefore you consider that anyone who choses to move there has failed in Thailand. No theory should be based on such extreme bias.

Presenting theories that openly insult a large number of people don't serve a purpose in the discussion initiated by the OP and don't amount to much more than thinly disguised flame.

Edited July 5, 2007 by tropo

[YaiJung]

Well, I have been to Cambodia many times over the years and personally quite like it over there. That said, I don't think I could live there long term. It is a relatively small country with not that much to keep me occupied for yrs on end. I suppose if I were running a business I wouldn't have as much free time and might look at it differently.

The visa situation is very much friendlier than Thailand. I also find the people more sincere and less likely to give me a fake, sh#t-eating smile like here in Thailand. Also I have found the level of english to be a bit better in Cambodia.

Like has already been said before in this thread, there is plenty of western food and excellent western restaurants. As far as I am concerned there is enough good food in both countries to make a fat ass out of anybody who wants to eat all day. There might be loads of western places to get a bite to eat in thailand, but much of it is absolute crap made by dreamers who are trying to hang on any way they can and stay with thier "tilak". If one is looking for fine-dining, they won't be disappointed in Cambodia. The french taught the Khmers a few lessons about "class" that the Thais missed out on.

Cambodia is a poor country with all the hassles of the 3rd world, but at least one can find an address in PP easily enough as the city is laid out on a grid like I am used to at home. Get the address and go, unlike BKK where a newcomer needs to hire a local to lead them around the maze of unplanned streets. Might need to hire a local to drive u though, as the traffic is a nightmare in both places.

I would say Cambodia has potential for somebody who is up for taking risks, not unlike Thailand in that aspect. U can make money, or lose it all in either place. It might not be for the faint of heart, but its different and could be a breath of fresh air after so many yrs in Thailand. One positive is that the "los" "know-it-alls" who spend all day and night on this forum obsessively complaining and whinging about every little thing or mincing about in aircon malls(yes there are grown men in thailand who are known to walk the malls regularly)usually don't have the balls to make it over there.

Both places will have their ups and downs.

Good luck with whatever you may choose. Life is short and there are many places out there other than Thailand.

[bendix]

Far from it tropo. I like Cambodia. To visit.

I just can't believe anyone seriously thinks it's a better place to live than Thailand.

Anyway, what's wrong with extreme bias? It keeps the thread alive ;-)

[JR Texas]

Far from it tropo. I like Cambodia. To visit.

I just can't believe anyone seriously thinks it's a better place to live than Thailand.

Anyway, what's wrong with extreme bias? It keeps the thread alive ;-)

JR Texas to Bendix: OK, sorry Bendix.......you knew who my post was directed at. I thought you were a 40 something, suit and tie, right wing conservative working for an MNC in Bangkok (making big money....that is good), but still, working and having to kiss.....well, you know.

Good luck in Hua Hin.......by the way, I retired at a very young age for about 10 years ago.....sat on various beaches doing almost nothing......traveled all over.......but then the market crash back in 2000 changed all of that and forced me to return to academia. Have fun looking at the water.........but it can eventually get boring (at least for some people).

And for the record, I want all people to be rich. I have nothing against people with money..........I prefer having money to not having money........I just don't like it when those who are temporarily at the top of the mountain take a piss on those who are temporarily at the bottom of it.

[tropo]

Cambodia is absolutely incomparable with Thailand . I have been there twice , Seam Reap (means Thailand defeated ) is interesting and always worth a revisit . PP is the most dirty strange weed smoking with ridiculous looking farang city I have ever been . And I have been travelling intensively through all of SE Asia. PP is the worst ,

When did you go to PP? What did you mean by "farang city"?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

These photos were taken in November last year. I didn't find the city too dirty.

[tropo]

Far from it tropo. I like Cambodia. To visit.

I just can't believe anyone seriously thinks it's a better place to live than Thailand.

Anyway, what's wrong with extreme bias? It keeps the thread alive ;-)

Yes, it does keep the thread alive. Keep up the good work.

I think comparing Cambodia with Thailand in a blanket way is impossible. There are good and bad places in both countries.

I'm sure a rural farm community in Northern Cambodia would not be much different to the same type of communities in the Issan District. When you walk across the border not much would change, not even the language in the border provinces.

The population of Cambodia is only 20% that of Thailand. They need a little more time to grow up and repopulate, but I believe they are more foreigner friendly than Thailand and great opportunities abound.

Thailand with its countless military coups is hardly a good role model, and it's surprising that so many people are touting Thailand as more stable for business investment. Tell that to my landlord who stresses daily about maybe having to walk away from his 1/2 million GBP investments in the future.

[tropo]

Hugely long-term leases on property and inexpensive manual labor (some might argue slave labor, I cannot say).

How much do these manual laborers make? Do you have figures?

[tropo]

Who would EVER drink the tap water here? Not even a thai would drink this country’s water...

You do not seem to know much about Thailand...............

He hasn't seen the yellowy-brown liquid coming from faucets in Pattaya.

Edited July 5, 2007 by tropo

[bendix]

Far from it tropo. I like Cambodia. To visit.

I just can't believe anyone seriously thinks it's a better place to live than Thailand.

Anyway, what's wrong with extreme bias? It keeps the thread alive ;-)

JR Texas to Bendix: OK, sorry Bendix.......you knew who my post was directed at. I thought you were a 40 something, suit and tie, right wing conservative working for an MNC in Bangkok (making big money....that is good), but still, working and having to kiss.....well, you know.

I am all the above, except the bits about suit and tie and having to kiss. . . . . well, you know.

[chinthee]

Far from it tropo. I like Cambodia. To visit.

I just can't believe anyone seriously thinks it's a better place to live than Thailand.

Anyway, what's wrong with extreme bias? It keeps the thread alive ;-)

JR Texas to Bendix: OK, sorry Bendix.......you knew who my post was directed at. I thought you were a 40 something, suit and tie, right wing conservative working for an MNC in Bangkok (making big money....that is good), but still, working and having to kiss.....well, you know.

I am all the above, except the bits about suit and tie and having to kiss. . . . . well, you know.

I also "retired" as a forty something in Thailand some years ago, not after an MNC life, but after an entrepreneur career owning & operating businesses. Regardless, it sucks to retire early. I hung around reading on the beach, rode my motorcycle, played golf and generally went nuts. I was back in the business world a year later. Now, I never want to fully retire. Call me an A type, I guess. I look at guys like , Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Steve Jobs, still running empires in their fifties, and much older dudes like Li Ka-shing, Rupert Murdoch, etc..as examples of enjoying life but still working and being productive till you can't move. Keeps you engaged and young.

I would be very open to running to Cambo to start a business if it got hot, but I wouldn't want to live there.

Bendix, don't fully retire in your 40s or you'll be climbing the walls if you have the enthusiam for your profession that you exhibit in this forum. JR, good luck on finding a new opportunity, even later in life. Academia can be a cruel background for entrepreneurial endeavours, but good luck.

Everyone else, don't think early retirement is all it's cracked up to be. I can understand it for those who have worked hard in a non-fulfilling job their whole life, but for those of you who have created things don't do it.

[Jingthing]

People have enough trouble accurately predicting what will make themselves happy in the future. How is it that other people think they can do that for others? We do the best we can and see what happens. Many early retirees are plenty happy. You won't really know until you try it. End of sermon.

[Fred Sanford]

Far from it tropo. I like Cambodia. To visit.

I just can't believe anyone seriously thinks it's a better place to live than Thailand.

Anyway, what's wrong with extreme bias? It keeps the thread alive ;-)

JR Texas to Bendix: OK, sorry Bendix.......you knew who my post was directed at. I thought you were a 40 something, suit and tie, right wing conservative working for an MNC in Bangkok (making big money....that is good), but still, working and having to kiss.....well, you know.

Good luck in Hua Hin.......by the way, I retired at a very young age for about 10 years ago.....sat on various beaches doing almost nothing......traveled all over.......but then the market crash back in 2000 changed all of that and forced me to return to academia. Have fun looking at the water.........but it can eventually get boring (at least for some people).

And for the record, I want all people to be rich. I have nothing against people with money..........I prefer having money to not having money........I just don't like it when those who are temporarily at the top of the mountain take a piss on those who are temporarily at the bottom of it.

JR texas is right on the money about that beach thing getting boring real fast. It's one thing to visit but after you move all your crap there and yourself, it'll hit you, smack you in the face and at that point, turning back is a pain in the ass but you do it

[Fred Sanford]

Cambodia is absolutely incomparable with Thailand . I have been there twice , Seam Reap (means Thailand defeated ) is interesting and always worth a revisit . PP is the most dirty strange weed smoking with ridiculous looking farang city I have ever been . And I have been travelling intensively through all of SE Asia. PP is the worst ,

When did you go to PP? What did you mean by "farang city"?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

These photos were taken in November last year. I didn't find the city too dirty.

Nice pics tropo. I agree that PP is not that dirty, certainly no dirtier than BKK

[JR Texas]

Cambodia is absolutely incomparable with Thailand . I have been there twice , Seam Reap (means Thailand defeated ) is interesting and always worth a revisit . PP is the most dirty strange weed smoking with ridiculous looking farang city I have ever been . And I have been travelling intensively through all of SE Asia. PP is the worst ,

When did you go to PP? What did you mean by "farang city"?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

These photos were taken in November last year. I didn't find the city too dirty.

Nice pics tropo. I agree that PP is not that dirty, certainly no dirtier than BKK

JR Texas: Thanks for the comments, Fred Samford and Chintee and others, also thanks for the pics, Tropo, and many useful comments. About the pics......I remember those places....all along the waterfront. Lots of good places to eat and some very nice hotels. Not shown are the beggars and some of the scenes from the backstreets (many are dirty....maybe that was where the one poster that portrayed PP as total filth was hanging out). But I am talking about three years ago.

It is getting better.......maybe at some point some corporations and a lot of small scale entrepreneurs will start recognizing the potential of the Cambodian people and start pouring more dollars into the country. Now there are way too many NGOs doing nothing and too many UN officials doing too much talking (but I like the UN). What is needed to turn things around is a receptive government and lots of risk takers. The workforce is there.........

If that happens in Sihanoukville, watch out.........because the beaches are beautiful. I rented a motorcyle and drove all over the area and found nice, virtually empty beaches with white sand (most clean!). But there wasn't much there at that time except a lot of potential. The good news about Sihanoukville, for those that love Thailand, is that it is so close to Thailand. Eventually, I am sure, there will be daily flights from Thailand to the airport in Sihanoukville.....that will change things.

[bendix]

Completely agree about the retiring early thing. I'm downsizing my commitment to my existing employer and having a lifestyle shift by working from home. The great thing about my job is that I travel for a week every month all around Asia, and sometimes over the US too, so it would be hard to get bored. I've also got a contractual option of reverting to full-time at any time i want to.

Ironically word on myplan has got out and I'm already getting approaches for consulting assignments, one of which I accepted 30 minutes ago. I can see this relaxing thing is gonna be hard work :-)

As for the pics you posted tropo . they're great, but possibly tinged with 'extreme bias'. Now show us the pics of the streets covering in trash 50 metres behind the riverfront , the hoardes of beggars just out of camera who stick their handless limbs out asking for a dollar while you're having breakfast, and the slums and $2 brothels just across out of view on the other side of the river.

Anyway, as I said before, PP has some nice parts. Some lovely trendy streets with cafes and shops too. I'm exaggering by dissing it so much cos I enjoy a short break there now and again. It it wasn't full of sanctimonious NGO jerks and - at the opposite end of the extreme - very dodgy sex tourists, it would be liveable in.

[tijnebijn]

Cambodia is absolutely incomparable with Thailand . I have been there twice , Seam Reap (means Thailand defeated ) is interesting and always worth a revisit . PP is the most dirty strange weed smoking with ridiculous looking farang city I have ever been . And I have been travelling intensively through all of SE Asia. PP is the worst ,

When did you go to PP? What did you mean by "farang city"?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

These photos were taken in November last year. I didn't find the city too dirty.

Nice pics tropo. I agree that PP is not that dirty, certainly no dirtier than BKK

Hi guys , these pictures certainly is not the same PP when I visited it last time . I must admit that the last visit to PP is over 7 years by now . They must have cleaned up massively . What I remember were the shady guesthouses at the lake , the small streets , and all those garbage next to the markets , tons of them . There came a guy with an uzi , angry about something at the gueshouse next where I stayed . Was really scary i can tell you , I liked PP on the other side as well , but to live is something I cannot imagine back then . Looks totally different now , by the way Bangkok I would never think ever to live in as well . Tropo , I meant nothing with ' farang city ' , I meant with many shady looking farang in the city . My English is not 100 procent . But if PP is much better now , I apologise for making a misstatement for how it being now , but for sure how it was then.

[waldpyk]

i like your reply

it's like fresh air in a muggy little room

[Fred Sanford]

The bottom line for me is that I love PP and I love Bangkok. Pattaya is OK for a visit but I dont want to live there. Snookville I have not been to but PP I know like the back of my hand. I'll take either capital and be happy

[dog412]

i have no doubt i'll be spending more time in Cambo. loved the beaches. i found wine, cheese, cigs., beer, and other high duty items much cheaper. stay at a french run guesthouse and you will eat meals of higher quality, at a fraction of what you get in Bkk. it is certainly a different world, but one that i am currently giving much more thought.

[JR Texas]

i have no doubt i'll be spending more time in Cambo. loved the beaches. i found wine, cheese, cigs., beer, and other high duty items much cheaper. stay at a french run guesthouse and you will eat meals of higher quality, at a fraction of what you get in Bkk. it is certainly a different world, but one that i am currently giving much more thought.

JR Texas: On the positive side (positive for Cambodia), Thailand misfits are doing everything in their power to ruin the economy, destroy any elements of freedom and democracy, prevent foreigners from investing in small scale businesses, and prevent a large segment of the tourism industry from thriving (the segment that caters to the budget tourists). Cambodia is not!

If, in the future, Cambodia gets its act together (mainly reducing corruption and developing infrastructure), it will no doubt start to seriously compete with Thailand for businesses, jobs, and tourism. It is situated between Thailand and Vietnam--pretty good place to be. It has Angkor Wat (magnificent), PP (really has potential), and Sihanoukville (will someday become the a small Phuket with a deep water harbor, an airport, casinos, and fantastic beaches.....someday with great condos and maybe a place for yachts).

Now....well.....maybe it is a good time to get in on the ground floor. Maybe! Risky.......maybe too risky? Lots to think about. I suppose for those who have simply had it with Thailand (a growing number of expats, in my view), it is a good place to check out along with the Philippines and Vietnam.

I just can't see the logic in starting any business in a country like Thailand that clearly does not want foreigners to start businesses......do this, do that, now go there, no go over there.......no, sorry, this week you have to go to this country.....ooopppsss.....that place is closed.....this week you have to.......on and on and on.......no stability or security or ability to plan for the future.

The visa/business rules in Thailand are stupid beyond imagination!

[bendix]

Well, it sounds like we're losing another valuable member to the Khmer Rouge. Sad . . i kinda like the old Texan's posts :-)

[chinthee]

Well, it sounds like we're losing another valuable member to the Khmer Rouge. Sad . . i kinda like the old Texan's posts :-)

That's hard to visualize. A big strapping guy in a ten gallon hat and cowboy boots, with a six-gun strapped to his hip- speaking khmer??

[JR Texas]

Well, it sounds like we're losing another valuable member to the Khmer Rouge. Sad . . i kinda like the old Texan's posts :-)

JR Texas to Bendix: Not so fast.......might decide to open up a JR-something in Hua Hin just so I can talk politics with you in person.......pistols or swords? Good luck Bendix!

[threelegcowboy]

BigTex,

A good plan of action would be to go to the locations you are interested in. Lets say Shinookvile and spend some serious time there just observing. You gather info from falang owners and get a good feel for what you might want. Many business fail, I am sure you can pick up one on the cheap. If you spend some time there first you still have the option of doing nothing.

I have heard and seen many failures. Timing and luck will carry more weight than you might think. There arent that many Americans there with a business and I think there is a good reason for that.

My own personal opinion is that if you have a small business and keep your head down then you might scrape by. If you are very successful then someone will come after you.

LLL

[JR Texas]

BigTex,

A good plan of action would be to go to the locations you are interested in. Lets say Shinookvile and spend some serious time there just observing. You gather info from falang owners and get a good feel for what you might want. Many business fail, I am sure you can pick up one on the cheap. If you spend some time there first you still have the option of doing nothing.

I have heard and seen many failures. Timing and luck will carry more weight than you might think. There arent that many Americans there with a business and I think there is a good reason for that.

My own personal opinion is that if you have a small business and keep your head down then you might scrape by. If you are very successful then someone will come after you.

LLL

JR Texas: That could have more than one meaning.....come after me in the sense of having a hostile intent? come after me in the sense of seeing something become successful and wanting to get in on the action? Could actually have a third meaning but I am not into that......... :D Hopefully the woman I am with is also not into that :D