Cambodia: Is It A Good Alternative To Thailand?

[tropo]

i just got back from cambodia, I stayed for 1 week and let me tell it is a road to nowhere and hel_l, definetly a 3rd world country and everybody will ask you for money everyday! super hot, dusty, polluted like you cant imagine, i took a plane out of there faster then you can say speedy gonzalez!

I enjoyed a week's vacation there. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

One member said the food was crap. I have to disagree. I found many nice restaurants both in Phnom Penh and Siam Reap.

[DragonQuest]

actually yes, in phnom pen there are some nice vietnamese/khmer restaurants, kinda of pricy but the food was good, gotta find em though, other then that i stayed away from the tap water, o and ankhor wat was fantastic, but thats the only thing cambodia has going for them.

[cdnvic]

I don't care about what it was like two years ago or even one year ago........what is it like now?

The big worry there is that even if it's gotten ten times better you don't have much in the way of stability yet. True, you could get in on the ground floor and make out very well, but I certainly wouldn't bet the farm on it. I'd have a sensible exit strategy in place before arriving.

[duke69]

i just got back from cambodia, I stayed for 1 week and let me tell it is a road to nowhere and hel_l, definetly a 3rd world country and everybody will ask you for money everyday! super hot, dusty, polluted like you cant imagine, i took a plane out of there faster then you can say speedy gonzalez!

I enjoyed a week's vacation there. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

One member said the food was crap. I have to disagree. I found many nice restaurants both in Phnom Penh and Siam Reap.

TROPO, IF YOU LIVE THERE you have to buy groceries and cannot go to restaurant every day.

My statement was not on a tourist point of view, my statement was on a long stay point of view, in thailand you can buy fresh veggies, seafood.....imported meat (Australian, US,.....) all EU/Aussie/USA products, fresh Bufalo Mozzarella made by Italian immigrants better and cheaper than in Italy....every kind of food at every kind of price.

In Cambodia this is not possible.

Then Cambodian food in some nice small and cheap Cambodian restaurant in PP and SR is still possible but not on a LT

[ThaiGoon]

So how are universities in Cambodia? I think that's what JR Texas really wants to know.

Edited July 4, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[kmart]

So how are universities in Cambodia? I think that's what JR Texas really wants to know.

Are the degrees cheaper to buy than here?

[Fred Sanford]

I think the lack of cambodiavisa.com, speaks volumes. The old Asia hands on here would have gone some time ago if the place was viable for anything other than a holiday.

Things do change, but not yet.

lmao. no there is no cambovisa.com but there is a thaivisa.com. why is there a thaivisa.com? because so many people needed a forum to help understand and navigate thru the complicated and restrictive visa regulations in thailand. there is no such prob in cambo, just pay your $300 and get your 6 months visa, repeat

[Fred Sanford]

Land of milk and honey I believe.

Tap water is fantastic I hear.

Indeed it is every bit as good as that in Thailand

[tropo]

i just got back from cambodia, I stayed for 1 week and let me tell it is a road to nowhere and hel_l, definetly a 3rd world country and everybody will ask you for money everyday! super hot, dusty, polluted like you cant imagine, i took a plane out of there faster then you can say speedy gonzalez!

I enjoyed a week's vacation there. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

One member said the food was crap. I have to disagree. I found many nice restaurants both in Phnom Penh and Siam Reap.

TROPO, IF YOU LIVE THERE you have to buy groceries and cannot go to restaurant every day.

My statement was not on a tourist point of view, my statement was on a long stay point of view, in thailand you can buy fresh veggies, seafood.....imported meat (Australian, US,.....) all EU/Aussie/USA products, fresh Bufalo Mozzarella made by Italian immigrants better and cheaper than in Italy....every kind of food at every kind of price.

In Cambodia this is not possible.

Then Cambodian food in some nice small and cheap Cambodian restaurant in PP and SR is still possible but not on a LT

I was replying to duke69 and comparing his week's stay with mine.

[JR Texas]

i just got back from cambodia, I stayed for 1 week and let me tell it is a road to nowhere and hel_l, definetly a 3rd world country and everybody will ask you for money everyday! super hot, dusty, polluted like you cant imagine, i took a plane out of there faster then you can say speedy gonzalez!

I enjoyed a week's vacation there. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

One member said the food was crap. I have to disagree. I found many nice restaurants both in Phnom Penh and Siam Reap.

TROPO, IF YOU LIVE THERE you have to buy groceries and cannot go to restaurant every day.

My statement was not on a tourist point of view, my statement was on a long stay point of view, in thailand you can buy fresh veggies, seafood.....imported meat (Australian, US,.....) all EU/Aussie/USA products, fresh Bufalo Mozzarella made by Italian immigrants better and cheaper than in Italy....every kind of food at every kind of price.

In Cambodia this is not possible.

Then Cambodian food in some nice small and cheap Cambodian restaurant in PP and SR is still possible but not on a LT

I was replying to duke69 and comparing his week's stay with mine.

JR Texas: Thanks again for the posts......just got back from the dentist. It is hard to filter through some of this.....some very useful.....other stuff, well...........

Combining what has been said with my own personal experience, I would have to say that Cambodia is a big risk at the moment........not enough development.......but wins hands down (over Thailand) in terms of visas. My own experience with the food was that it was much better than in Thailand (the Western food) but more expensive (those French!!!).

It was interesting that some person stated that you can't get many Western food items in Cambodia. Wonder how true it is......when I was there PP had an air-conditioned mall with many types of Western foods, all imported from Thailand (and more expensive than in Thailand). And many restaurants are making pretty good farang food......where do they get the ingredients?

I wonder about security issues now..........to go there and get in on the ground floor would be a risk......but the rewards could be great. Maybe, though, Vietnam is a better choice. And, yes, I have thought about Malaysia.....maybe Penang? Again, I am not that fond of religious fanatics or fanatics of any kind. I think many of us probably enjoyed Thailand because of the laid back nature of Buddhism......very different from Christianity and Islam.

Still.......it would be nice to hear from a businessperson/expat who is in Cambodia now......I think many of us would like to get some information about what it is really like starting a business in Cambodia....security issues.....food.....etc.

[bkkmadness]

Do a search on this forum, in recent months been a few threads like this with I think more of the kind of info you are looking for.

[Tod Daniels]

A friend of mine, now back at university in the US, lived in Phnom Penh for over 9 months. He also coordinated a trip for us to the capital, and then on to Angkor as well. I can say without a doubt there are plenty of foreigners making money, as well as investing in the future of Cambodia. They are also doing far better than "paying their bills".

However, as this is the thai visa forum, no one really wants to hear about the benefits of another country, which may have more to offer someone than the glorious "Land 'O Thais" and its ever smiling yet xenophobic inhabitants.

Back to Cambodia;

Sihanoukville I'd forget about, as it's still many light years from a viable tourist destination, whether they have reopened the airport or not. As far as infrastructure, tourist numbers, tourist dollars spent, etc its just not there yet.

Siem Reap may be a place to spend some time looking at opportunities. It is continuously growing, changing, and as it’s the number one tourist destination in Cambodia; year in year out it draws a crowd which has money to spend.

The current PM Samdech Hun Sen, his family and friends have a stranglehold on most industry, all the development, as well as the normal illegal activities like logging, mining, etc. It is much like here with the rampant corruption, illegal logging, smuggling, etc, controlled by a few powerful people. Here those people operate in the shadows, insulated from the limelight. In Cambodia there are no fears of repercussions as they run the country, so it's more in your face and the Khmer people are powerless to do anything for fear of reprisal. Land ownership documentation was destroyed so the government is pushing people off the land they've been on for generations.

I think it is a very hopeful place full of opportunity for the right kinds of businesses, IF you do your homework BEFORE you spend your money. That said; IF you don't take time to cultivate and know someone with at least a modicum of power ie; Police, Military, you leave yourself open to way too many problems doing anything more than a small business with an extremely low profile.

It's cheap to stay in Phnom Penh, with apartments just a short walk from the river being similar in price to Bangkok. High(er) speed internet is far more widely available than even a year ago, and prices are dropping. Food in Phnom Penh is plentiful, and runs the gamut from high end restaurants to street food with similar pricing. I would say the food is easily as good as it is here, IF you know where to eat. The jokes about the water are moot. Who would EVER drink the tap water here? Not even a thai would drink this country’s water...

Unfortunately Cambodia has a negative image which it is trying hard to change. With even more lax visa regulations and enforcement it does attract the dregs of society, much like the areas of Pattaya, Soi Nana, Soi Cowboy and Patpong attract that kind here. Prostitution is as illegal there as it is here, so that should suffice as a comment.

Cambodia is a vibrant country, coming back from one of the worlds worst selective genocides in modern history. Anyone would do themselves a disservice not to at least go see it, and note the changes that have taken place in the last 5 years.

They are on the way to something better. They have the right mindset and work ethic to make a better life for themselves. Is it the glorious “Land ‘O Thais”, thankfully NO. Is it better, worse, equal? Each individual has to decide for themselves, has to see it, judge it, and decide what is ‘better’. The armchair demigods who spout useless wisdom without ever having spent more than a few days in Cambodia should be discounted out of hand as just plain ignorant on the subject.

Good to see Thaigoon (whose post numbers I see are over 1300+) spouting the ever cryptic, but wildly popular; "we-b-thai" comments this forum is known for. Great work there 'goon; you little thai sock puppet you.

Edited twice to correct spelling. ... ...

Edited July 4, 2007 by tod-daniels

[Dr. Burrito]

I've a mate who runs an agricultural operation over there for simple economic reasons vs. Thailand and he is doing quite well.

Hugely long-term leases on property and inexpensive manual labor (some might argue slave labor, I cannot say).

Other industries, I've no idea of.

Dr. B

[bruceboy]

Imagine getting in on the ground floor of the next Pattaya.

I wouldn't wish that fate on any city in the entire world.....

Would any town be desperate enough to want to become the next Pattya?

[DirkGently]

It's ok if you can live with dirt roads. I think it's a place for the people who post on barladies.com.

Cinemas, malls and health care at the standard we enjoy is a few years off.

[bruceboy]

I've a mate who runs an agricultural operation over there for simple economic reasons vs. Thailand and he is doing quite well.

I've got in on the ground floor on a new agricultural venture in Thailand. I've invested a lot but the ease at which I am able to conduct business here is good sign for the future of the venture.

[Fred Sanford]

I do know one positive thing about cambo: the beer situation. You can buy imported beer a lot cheaper than Thailand and the local stuff is pretty good too. A Budweiser there costs $1 or 33 baht, here that same Bud (though stale in thailand) is 115 baht. They have cheap Beer Lao and other brands and the product is fresh not stale as it sells well being so cheap. I suppose it has a lot to do with the country not trying to squash foreign competition in the beer market through exhorbitant taxation, like in Thailand. I guess in that regard it is similar to the easy visa situation

Edited July 4, 2007 by Fred Sanford

[Fred Sanford]

It's ok if you can live with dirt roads. I think it's a place for the people who post on barladies.com.

Cinemas, malls and health care at the standard we enjoy is a few years off.

You have all the classic dvds you could ever want. Malls in Thailand are outrageously expensive so serve no practical purpose other than a little glitz.

[Fred Sanford]

regarding the food situation in cambo: a great thing is the awesome French bread available on every street corner. It is fresh baked daily, large and cost 5 baht for 2. I can live off sandwiches made with that stuff.

[gburns57au]

Checked it out as an alternative a while back...spoke with some local business men at the time....the countries instability and lack of supporting infrastructure would suggest that they are at least twenty years away from being a viable alternative.

Nha Trang loomed as a better deal but that has gone quiet now. Vietnam is far more advanced than Cambodia in regards infrastruture and stability.

But both are risky from an invetment point of view.

Of course it depends on exactly what sort of investment you are planning.

[bendix]

And i think that sums it up, Fred. Cambo is a great place for the type of people who think shopping malls are overpriced luxuries, who prefer to watch dvds because there are no cinemas and who can live off sandwiches made on the street.

If that's your thing, good luck to you.

Me? I prefer choice.

Another poster (JR Texas himself, I think) talked about the airconditioned shopping mall with farang food. The fact that one needs to point out there is ONE shopping mall as if it is a highlight says it all. In Thailand there are numerous supermarkets selling foreign food, particularly in Bkk, Pattaya, CM and Hua Hin. In PP there is a supermarket the size of a large 7/11 and its vastly overpriced.

No choice. No luxury. No laws. But plenty of Thailand's rejected farang.

Good luck

[bendix]

There's a flaw in your methodology. You're not going to get real views. You'll get self-justifications from people who pretend they have gone there for the next frontier, but in fact have failed in Thailand. . . .. .

That's an interesting, though biased theory.

Ummm . . of course it's biased. That's why it's a theory. Show me a theory that isn't biased and I'll show you that rare thing indeed, a scientifically substantiated fact.

[JimmyCA]

Went to Sihanoukville for a few days 2 years ago and stayed a month. December - January time of year. Loved it. Weather was hot but good, beaches are much better than Thailand and the people were friendly, less cunning and didnt act arrogant like thais do. But Sihanoukville is very small and after a month the place runs out of gas. Maybe Cambo can be competition in the future but now 1 month is enough.

[JimmyCA]

I've a mate who runs an agricultural operation over there for simple economic reasons vs. Thailand and he is doing quite well.

I've got in on the ground floor on a new agricultural venture in Thailand. I've invested a lot but the ease at which I am able to conduct business here is good sign for the future of the venture.

Business is tedious in Thailand. Good sign of what, loosing money? Going under?

[tijnebijn]

Cambodia is absolutely incomparable with Thailand . I have been there twice , Seam Reap (means Thailand defeated ) is interesting and always worth a revisit . PP is the most dirty strange weed smoking with ridiculous looking farang city I have ever been . And I have been travelling intensively through all of SE Asia. PP is the worst , Sihanoukville is nothing special.

I cannot understand this would be an alternative for people loving to stay in Asia. I tell you Sumatra is much better(the whole of indonesia) , cheap as well . Luxury is not something everybody needs excessively all year around . It even says something about them ,namely they are not over materialistic , not letting the programmed psychological way of living that most of us know from in the West , over power them in their living truth called happiness.

I personally enjoy having money ,lots of them , but I do not in particularly need this to feel happy(but is part of it) .

On my many travels in the past I enjoyed much of the privileged country side destinations . Large cities and the rapid life I do not enjoy on a constant basis . But of course to live there(coutries like Canbodia) permanently would be out of the question . I prefer both being close( countryside and mediocre city) ,for the change .Everybody has their own preferences ,although some do not have any choice, or in a different perspective

cannot make any choice cause they are low profile .

[ttthailand]

Spent three days in Sihanoukville a little over a year ago. The roads needed some work and the people were for sure poorer then in Thailand. The beaches were great, and the hotels clean and reasonable. Food was fine and many lovely girls in the clubs. Sure it does not have everything that Thailand has but progress in not always good. I too often hear " in the good old days Thailand was great " . Perhaps Cambo is the same as the good old days... I think a move or a long visit could be a good adventure for someone looking for a change from Thailand. Some are worried about the direction Thailand is heading and the new visa regs. My only worry would be Medical. I did not see anything that looked like a state of the art Medical building. If you are young and healthy perhaps not a problem but for older and persons with medical problems it perhaps would not be a good move.

Life is short so why stay in Thailand if you are not happy or you feel unwelcomed. Have an adventure in Cambo and if you find it too difficult you can always come back to Los. I am sure there will be a place to hang your hat when you return, if you do !

[lannarebirth]

So how are universities in Cambodia? I think that's what JR Texas really wants to know.

Are the degrees cheaper to buy than here?

Soon they'll be running the government:

http://www.democracy-project.com/archives/002655.html

[Fred Sanford]

And i think that sums it up, Fred. Cambo is a great place for the type of people who think shopping malls are overpriced luxuries, who prefer to watch dvds because there are no cinemas and who can live off sandwiches made on the street.

If that's your thing, good luck to you.

Me? I prefer choice.

Another poster (JR Texas himself, I think) talked about the airconditioned shopping mall with farang food. The fact that one needs to point out there is ONE shopping mall as if it is a highlight says it all. In Thailand there are numerous supermarkets selling foreign food, particularly in Bkk, Pattaya, CM and Hua Hin. In PP there is a supermarket the size of a large 7/11 and its vastly overpriced.

No choice. No luxury. No laws. But plenty of Thailand's rejected farang.

Good luck

Plenty of farang in Thailand live in places where there is little choice: no malls, no cinemas, no farang food, and certainly no tasty frencn bread. PP has some large supermarkets and prices are comparable to Thailand. The foreign food sold in Thailand at markets is outrageously priced. PP has plenty of choice, light years more than Bendix is saying and far more than Thailand outside of Bangkok and CM. Many foreigners live in PP and they are catered to with restaurants and stores packed with western goods. Some people like to live off street som tam but if I had my choice it would be tasty stuff I could make from that fresh french bread

[jetjock]

Thanks for posting a good topic JR. I have never been to Cambodia other than for a quick visa run so the posts have been very informative. I had to put my Crap Filter into high mode but after that I gained alot of insightful information from members that have actually spent a fair amount of time there. It sounds like it would, at the very minimum, be a good place for my friends and I to spend a few weeks vacation.

[Ping]

Agree with JetJock - interesting thread. May be worth bumping it up in two or three years...