Golden Retrievers

[Tywais]

My wife pointed out something to me that I somehow managed to miss. Our Golden seems to have lost quite a bit of hair, not patches, just general overall thinner layer. Looks like an entire layer is/has come off. Looking at his tail, the hair is less bushy at the last two thirds of it. Also, seems to be less glossy and a little stiffer then normal. He is about 4 years old now and was wondering if it may be his first major annual molt? Looking on the Internet there are references to hyperthyroidism, which makes me nervous. However he has no other symptoms - still bright, playful, energetic but seems a little thinner then before (maybe because of less hair though). My wife thinks we need to change his diet, less pork or perhaps vitamin additives?

Just checking other members opinions/experiences first before deciding if he needs to go see a vet.

[elfe]

hi

might be many reasons, you could make a blood test for thyroidism at the vet to be sure.

how about his diet, does he eat the same amounts as before? maybe you try more variety (if not already), fish works wonders for skin and coat, like one mackerel per day or a fishdish every few days already can make lots of difference!

[lannarebirth]

Hi Tywais,

My dog is shedding a lot of hair right now as well. I think it's just the regular seasonal shedding. Back in the states I used to have a shedding blade:

http://www.prodoggroomingsupplies.com/shedding_blade.htm

which was the best tool I've ever found for dog grooming. I forgot to pack it when I moved here and non of my relatives can find it amongst the things I left behind. I'd be very interested if someone could tell me where I could find one in LOS.

[elfe]

Hi Tywais,

My dog is shedding a lot of hair right now as well. I think it's just the regular seasonal shedding. Back in the states I used to have a shedding blade:

http://www.prodoggroomingsupplies.com/shedding_blade.htm

which was the best tool I've ever found for dog grooming. I forgot to pack it when I moved here and non of my relatives can find it amongst the things I left behind. I'd be very interested if someone could tell me where I could find one in LOS.

hi i've seen the shedding blade here in samui somewhere, so they have it here in thailand. just check out shamushamu or other petstores/suppliers

[Tywais]

how about his diet, does he eat the same amounts as before? maybe you try more variety (if not already), fish works wonders for skin and coat, like one mackerel per day or a fishdish every few days already can make lots of difference!

Since my wife's sister has taken over feeding him daily and my wife and myself working, I'm not sure. May be just coincidental, but it seems to have started after she took over feeding him where before I was doing it. We usually alternate between various types of pork and chicken mixed in with dry dog food (Alpo). Will see about adding more fish to the diet also, thanks for that info. My wife thinks he is getting too much fat in the diet, so perhaps leaner cuts would be better.

[elfe]

guess that's the reason... but fatty meats would make him more fat?! maybe too much alpo and not much of the meats... alpo is not good anyway, change to a quality kibble if you have to feed it at all...

add eggs, oils, fish, no rice and you will see a difference very soon

maybe you should prepare the food for doggie by yourself

[Tywais]

guess that's the reason... but fatty meats would make him more fat?! maybe too much alpo and not much of the meats... alpo is not good anyway, change to a quality kibble if you have to feed it at all...

add eggs, oils, fish, no rice and you will see a difference very soon

maybe you should prepare the food for doggie by yourself

Funny thing, before the sister moved in and when my wife was out of town for extended times, when she returned she complained he was too fat now. Though to me he looked very good, I kept telling her it was just the thick hair. I switched from Pedigree to Alpo after the thread I started on "What do you feed your pets", but would prefer a higher quality but will have to look around for it.

Often when I prepare the meal myself I did add an egg & oils to it, so maybe just need to teach the sister how to do it. I spent more time preparing the dog's meal then mine.

[Mobi]

On the subject of food, as many of you know I feed Cookie Eukanuba, which was recommended to me by the breeder/vet who reared her and shows Goldens.

Cookie is always the picture of health, and I never feed her anything else - no scraps - tid bits - nothing. She did get a bit fat at one time (I think it was connected to me feeding her the puppy version of Eukanuba as I couldn't get the adult version) and she was over 33 kilos. I switched back to the adult food, cut down a little, and made sure she had a 25 minute power walk every day, plus lots of ball chasing. She is now down to 30 kilos and looks fine. Goldens should be kept a little on the lean side to protect their joints and increase their active lives.

As for moulting - well Cookie is very long haired - coming up to 2 years old, I think it is still growing longer - and I brush her every day, removing about 3 brush loads of hair at each session. She never seems to stop this constant moult, but she has never shed an entire coat or anything like that.

Tywais, I strongly suggest you have your golden checked out by a good vet.

[Nienke]

Hi Tywais,

Shedding the coat can have several reasons as said before. I have changed one dog from dryfood to raw and now he is shedding a lot, for the better though, as the new coat is already there and the coat structure has changed for the better.

You say that you are willing to change to good quality dog food. As I assume you're not in to feed raw I strongly suggest to feed Nutro. The difference is magnificent!

I had a dog on very long-term boarding last year. He had a huge skin and coat problem when he came in. The owner fed him also alpo, pedigree and the like mixed with pork, sometimes chicken, table left-overs etc. After changing to Hill's Science diet, the problem disappeared ... almost.

Now he is back in boarding. I was soooo pleasantly surprised to see him in splendid health with a thick dense coat and no irregularities on his skin whatsoever. I asked them what they fed him now and they said Nutro. I give Hill's at the kennel. Within two weeks he developed some scaly skin, itch and hair loss. He is back on Nutro and the problems are disappearing again.

Also another customer dog who's fed on Nutro looks absolutely fabulous, dense shining coat and beautiful white and deep red color. I called the owner, as she is planning to put him in boarding again. Explained about the abovementioned dog. And now she will provide the Nutro over the period he will be with me. (This is NOT a sales talk for Nutro, btw, just sharing my experiences Hill's is good, but Nutro is just better.) Nutro you can buy at Ran Rak Sath Overseas Petshop. One branch in the parking lot of Central Airport Plaza, ground level, and another in between Carrefour and Makro. 100 baht per kilo, or better to buy a big back of 18.1 kilo or 40 lb for 1,500 baht. At least, that's what I've paid.

If the shedding is not climate or food related, then I suggest to first check his thyroid. From what I've read there are worldwide many goldens with a thyroid problem. You can check at Ban Mha Ka Meaw Animal Hospital (Mahidol Road, entrance CM Land, 053 204 215). They need to check the free T4, Free T3, T4, T3 and the TSH. It's 500 baht each. If money is a problem, then you can also only do free T3, freeT4, and T4., but all 5 is much better. To be even more sure and specific on the thyroid issue, you can send the results to Dr. Jean Dodds:

www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ThryoidDisease.htm

As for the being-fat issue: over-weight is when the dog has no or hardly any line and the ribs are difficult to feel, obese means when the dog is like a barrel and no ribs can't be felt due to a thick fat layer. Good weight means that when you strike over the ribs you must still be able to feel them, but there must be sufficient material over the ribs. Also above his hips, there must be so much material that you can still fel the bones just a little bit. Rib and hip bones should not be visible.

Many dogs are overweight, so when one sees a slender dog one is quickly intended to think the dog is skinny, which in fact, the dog is perfectly on weight.

Overweight

Too skinny, you can see the hip bones

Kept slightly underweight due to weak back, not really skinny, though

Good

Well .....

Hope this helps,

Nienke

[Nienke]

As for moulting - well Cookie is very long haired - coming up to 2 years old, I think it is still growing longer - and I brush her every day, removing about 3 brush loads of hair at each session. She never seems to stop this constant moult, but she has never shed an entire coat or anything like that.

Continuous shedding in such an amount is a sign there is something not correct.

Nienke

[Tywais]

Nutro you can buy at Ran Rak Sath Overseas Petshop. One branch in the parking lot of Central Airport Plaza, ground level, and another in between Carrefour and Makro. 100 baht per kilo, or better to buy a big back of 18.1 kilo or 40 lb for 1,500 baht. At least, that's what I've paid.

If the shedding is not climate or food related, then I suggest to first check his thyroid. From what I've read there are worldwide many goldens with a thyroid problem. You can check at Ban Mha Ka Meaw Animal Hospital (Mahidol Road, entrance CM Land, 053 204 215).

Great information Nienke! Will take a drive over to the Airport Plaza and pick up a bag of Nutro. My wife only uses the above mentioned hospital for him now after some poor experiences at the University vet hospital (which surprises me, thought they would be one of the best). Since she handles the vet issues, will get her to take him over. And money isn't an issue for me to keep him healthy.

[Mobi]

As for moulting - well Cookie is very long haired - coming up to 2 years old, I think it is still growing longer - and I brush her every day, removing about 3 brush loads of hair at each session. She never seems to stop this constant moult, but she has never shed an entire coat or anything like that.

Continuous shedding in such an amount is a sign there is something not correct.

Nienke

I may have misled you with my cavalier use of the word 'moult' - probably more like mnormal hair shedding - but maybe not?

Here is a typical daily '3 brushes load'

Would you say that is excessive?

[Nienke]

I may have misled you with my cavalier use of the word 'moult' - probably more like mnormal hair shedding - but maybe not?

Here is a typical daily '3 brushes load'

Would you say that is excessive?

If this is on a daily basis, I'd rather see it a little less. My GSD sheds hardly, except when it's shedding time. First her undercoat lets loose in big tussles (is that correct English?) and then the uppercoat. Just before shedding her coat gets ugly dull and dusty like. Then I know it's time. Once shedded a beautiful new dense and shiny coat appears and she hardly sheds again.

At the moment there's is a husky who's loosing his undercoat. Lots of grooming

The golden I have in boarding doesn't shed that much as well. He does have a skin conditon, though, but that's caused by chronic stress due to his very nervous behavior

Nevertheless, not many dog owners (me included) groom their dog everyday. With all the respect

Nienke

[Mobi]

Thanks Nienke,

Her undercoat hardly sheds at all. It's mainly from her back and sides, and also 'tufts' from her rear end where her coat is very fluffy and bushy.

There's no signs of her being unhealthy and her coat looks shiny and nice. As I said, she is very long haired, and if I don't brush her daily it gets tangled quite quickly and she gets hairy 'lumps' which I have to cut out, but daily brushing seems to prevent this happening. If I didn't brush her daily, apart from the tangling, she would shed a bit - not too much, but enough to upset the wife, and probably mess up the pool a bit.

Do you think the daily brushing is accelerating the shedding or I should get her checked out?

[Nienke]

Thanks Nienke,

Her undercoat hardly sheds at all. It's mainly from her back and sides, and also 'tufts' from her rear end where her coat is very fluffy and bushy.

There's no signs of her being unhealthy and her coat looks shiny and nice. As I said, she is very long haired, and if I don't brush her daily it gets tangled quite quickly and she gets hairy 'lumps' which I have to cut out, but daily brushing seems to prevent this happening. If I didn't brush her daily, apart from the tangling, she would shed a bit - not too much, but enough to upset the wife, and probably mess up the pool a bit.

Do you think the daily brushing is accelerating the shedding or I should get her checked out?

Sorry, every Sunday afternoon it's Talad Nad here and my weekly dose of Crepe chocolate with vanilla needed to be refilled or I'll end up with those typical shiver and shaky signs. :D

As for the daily brushing opinions differ, some say its good others say its not. It also depends how you groom. If the brush one uses has metal pins and brushes to deep, it can hurt the skin. I don't have the impression that you do that as you wrote that Cookie loves the grooming sessions.

Best way is the grap the skin just above the place you put your brush and then in short tugs you brush small patches. Always just behind your other hand as there's the skin tight. Less inconvenient and/or painful to the dog. Also when one does it this way the skin can be checked for irregularities better. In case there are (little) tangles it's important to again hold the skin tight and start at combing or brushing at the tip of the hairs and not (what i sometimes see happening) at the place where the hair comes out of the skin. On the back, the sides and the paws, after making sure there are no tangles brushing with a rubber brush is good. If done well, same as described above, the skin will be massaged, the blood circulation stimulated and also old hair comes out.

Normally short haired dog should be brushed only with a rubber brush.

Bathing I recommend only once per month or even up to two months. In the meantime only brushing and combing. If there's quite some dust, then the coat can be wiped with a moist towel. In this way you keep the natural skin oils.

What is very beneficial to a dog's skin, among other things is, on a daily basis coconut oil (2 tsps) or (easier) grinded coconut meat (2 tbsps).

I have a biting dog that started having small bold patches. As it is slightly difficult to treat these spots , I've tried with just adding the coconut to his meals. Now 2 weeks later, the spots has almost disappeared and the coat is much more shiny. It's just amazing.

Nienke

[Mobi]

Thanks again Nienke

Here's the brush I use;

I brush quite carefully and gently to avoid hurting her, and as you rightly say, she seems to love it. As soon as she sees me go for the brush she comes running and stands patiently while I brush. Then when I have finished her back and sides, I tell her to sit, and she immediately rolls on her back so that I can brush her tummy. I don't do her tummy every day, as she sheds very little there, but it does get tangled if I leave it too long.

She is soooo.... hairy

here she is, just now:

I shall try the coconut oil - thanks for the tip.

BTW would you recommend I change from Eukanuba to Nutro (if I can find it), or not change a winning formula?

Sorry Tawais, for hijacking your thread.

[Nienke]

Cookie looks so lovely on the pic's. A typical Golden look and a wise look on the last pic, as if she knows exactly what is going on and beyond that. Just look carefully to her eyes on that pic when it is enlarged.

I used to give Eukanuba before changing to Hill's. I'm just little more pleased with Hill's, although I have had dogs that didn't do well on Hill's and better on Eukanuba or another dog food brand, but they were exceptions.

All Nutro fed dogs that I've seen are just fabulous, however. And the reports from the States that i've read on the different dog foods (and those are not from the companies that sell them) all say that Hill's and Eukanuba are medium grade and Nutro is top grade. About the same rank as Innova, which seems to be a splendid dog brand (still I prefer raw above a dog food brand though )

And the brush you use is one I use on dogs with such a coat, and in the way as I've described it. Although, my brush doesn't have those white things, I just avoid touching the skin when I groom.

Nienke

[Tywais]

Sorry Tawais, for hijacking your thread.

No need to apologize, good to see this kind of information here. Cookie is gorgeous, I won't let Jedi look at the pictures.

[lannarebirth]

I give egg and chicken and beef along with the dry food (I'll be switching to Nutro this week), but what types of oils are being recommended as food additives and in what amount and frequency? TIA

[lannarebirth]

Hi Tywais,

My dog is shedding a lot of hair right now as well. I think it's just the regular seasonal shedding. Back in the states I used to have a shedding blade:

http://www.prodoggroomingsupplies.com/shedding_blade.htm

which was the best tool I've ever found for dog grooming. I forgot to pack it when I moved here and non of my relatives can find it amongst the things I left behind. I'd be very interested if someone could tell me where I could find one in LOS.

hi i've seen the shedding blade here in samui somewhere, so they have it here in thailand. just check out shamushamu or other petstores/suppliers

Thanks for the recommendation elfe, but this is what I found when looking for that website:

"shamushamu.com expired on 06/28/2007 and is pending renewal or deletion."

If anyone knows the proprietors, they may wish to notify them that their website is offline.

[Nienke]

I give egg and chicken and beef along with the dry food (I'll be switching to Nutro this week), but what types of oils are being recommended as food additives and in what amount and frequency? TIA

The only things I regularly supplement is Vit C and coconut and coconut more than Vit C. But then I give Science Diet and many dogs that come in boarding are fed at home something else. Those that show some minor or bigger skin problems get coconut in their food, with quite interesting results.

I believe (now) that when Nutro is fed supplementing is not necessary. Actually, the danger exist that with supplementing over-supplementation can occur which can effect the health in a negative way (especially with oils such as cod liver oil. And many dogs are allergic to {brewer's} yeast). Also, it is not advisable to feed eggs, chicken and beef with the dryfood as these need other enzyms to digest the food than the kibble. I assume that's because kibble has cereals in there. But to give this as an extra next to the kibble, I think is good though.

My daily amount of coconut (oil) is based on own experience/observation and on what other people give as read on the net.

Nothing scientifically proven, to my present knowledge, as these kind of researches often do not get sponsored by the pharmaceutical industry, so most is anecdotal

Nienke

[Old Man River]

Since Mobi has hijacked this thread and is inquiring about dog food, I want to ask does anyone feed their dog Regal dog food? I have always fed my dogs Eukanuba, but when the dog food scare hit the US, I went to Regal because it does not use any imported products (imported into the US). It is owned by US Grains which also makes food for race horses. So far (about a month), both my dogs are finding it as tasty as Eukanuba. I don't know if it is better or worse than Eukanuba (or the same), hence, my asking if anyone has had any experience with this brand of dog food.

[MrSnrang]

My parents used to use "Mira-coat" for their dogs. It worked wonders and ensured a trophy from the show.

[cmsally]

My Golden is fed Eukonoba Premium - don't ask me what the premium is for but there's 2 types - thought premium sounded better! Her coat is really thick, probably a thicker coat than the 1 in the picture above. We alternate with different types between Eukonoba so she doesn't get bored. Then every now and then she has a Thai day with rice mixed with chicken or egg - that's her treat - she would love to be a THai dog!

The Eukonoba smells very fishy so maybe it is good for the coat?

[Gary A]

I haven't noticed any difference in my Cookie's coat. The only diet supplement I give him is egg yolks. I like eggs but only eat one yolk a day. Cookie loves them. As far as his diet he hates Pedigree dry dog food and doesn't like Alpo either. He did like the Strongheart beef flavor but Tesco Lotus no longer sells it. He will eat the Tesco brand beef flavor so thats what he gets now.

[draggons]

this one was brought up on pork liver (cooked), rice, chicken, and loves sardines. Got a really good coat on him, spends most of the day outside rooting about the garden or pulling lotus flowers out of the pots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[elfe]

this one was brought up on pork liver (cooked), rice, chicken, and loves sardines. Got a really good coat on him, spends most of the day outside rooting about the garden or pulling lotus flowers out of the pots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

beautiful golden and how much i know these dirty/wet faces