On A Serious Note, What's The Deal With All These Suicides In Pattaya?

[Weho]

I'm the first to admit that I love the articles about the drunk Scandanavian the gets into a fight with a Uzbek hooker, or the drunk guy from Grimsby who gets into a fight with a baht bus driver... but if what they are saying about a high number of "suicides in paradise" is true, something has to be done.

They talk about a very bad LOW SEASON, and a "broken heart" being a deadly combination... they say the main reasons for the farang suicides are:

1. Thai girlfriend leaves

2. financial problems

3. Visa problems/fear

4. illness

They sort of forgot to mention that the one common factor in all of these suicides is alcohol, but that alone is usually not the reason for a suicide. They did mention that lonely people, who haven't made friends or stay inactive, or don't join clubs or don't have other activities, are usually at risk people. I would guess this is true.

I am of the belief that financial problems can be a prime reason... and it makes me a bit angry when one realizes the attitude of the Thai government over the past year or so, which has been anti-farang, anti-easy of Visa, etc., discouraging long-stay farangs who want to spend money here, it's no wonder fewer people want to come this year. It has been a very bad low season, financially, for many, and I believe that is the primary reason there are just fewer tourist/long stay people here this year.

And some people here have multiple problems at the same time, and some are here alone, without family or real friends.

I haven't seen reliable statistics if there are really more suicides here than anywhere else... but I would guess there is some truth to what was written.

They gave some reasonable advice to stay active and make friends and join clubs, etc. They also mention a website that I don't know, but it's www.mentanoia.org/suicide/ where at risk people can get mental advice, presumably at no charge.

Naturally, the article had no less than 11 mostly disturbing and grisley photos... if someone is seriously considering suicide, the article may upset them further. But if you can handle the photos, I think it's worth reading in its entirety.

On this board, it seems most people like to have a good time, but it's clear that not all farangs in Pattaya are having a good time here. Of course we don't know if they had been in their home country, maybe they would have committed suicide years ago, and maybe being in Pattaya has kept them alive a while longer. We don't know. But there are definately some people in pain here, that need a little compassion.

[DirkGently]

Lest we forget Weho, the kind of people taht are drawn to Pattaya. Whilst many of the real expats are decent guys, the fact that it also attracts the lowest scraps of western society.

Losers arrive in Pattaya. Losers kill themselves over a girl. No mystery why people kill themselves.

[dee123]

quite right LEGO what exactly are you doing in Thailand?

[Weho]

Lest we forget Weho, the kind of people taht are drawn to Pattaya. Whilst many of the real expats are decent guys, the fact that it also attracts the lowest scraps of western society.

Losers arrive in Pattaya. Losers kill themselves over a girl. No mystery why people kill themselves.

It's strange: I can understand how someone would want to kill themself over financial problems, but I don't get it over "losing" a girl. If some girl wanted to leave someone, I think that person should be HAPPY, knowing the relationship wasn't sincere, and the farang is now free... Doesn't it make sense to want to get rid of those that don't REALLY want to be around you? If a girl wants to leave a farang, the farang should be THRILLED.

[dee123]

Over my lifetime I've had two good friends commit suicide!....and both of them I would describe as "good guys"....so I don't equate LEGO'S comment with actual fact.....Its just a shame the compassionless bad guy's like lego don't give it a try!

[davethailand]

Lest we forget Weho, the kind of people taht are drawn to Pattaya. Whilst many of the real expats are decent guys, the fact that it also attracts the lowest scraps of western society.

Losers arrive in Pattaya. Losers kill themselves over a girl. No mystery why people kill themselves.

Oh dear

Over my lifetime I've had two good friends commit suicide!....and both of them I would describe as "good guys"....so I don't equate LEGO'S comment with actual fact.....Its just a shame the compassionless bad guy's like lego don't give it a try!

I've known a few people here in Pattaya that have done it since i've lived here and I agree that its sad and unfortunate to read daft comments like that.

[dee123]

Thanks Dave.

[taxexile]

from "pattaya people"

Most of us consider Pattaya and Thailand the closest you can get to living in Paradise. Fantastic climate, low living expenses, great food, lots of activities to do (time passes so fast) and most of all wonderful Thai people. So why may you ask would anyone even think about committing suicide in such a nice and pleasant environment?

if the journalists are so delusional as to be able to pen the above sentences and expect its readers to take them seriously then what hope is there for the small but increasing numbers of unstable and misguided souls who visit pattaya.

they find themselves a long way from paradise and in so many cases , preyed on by some of the least likeable people to be found in this kingdom.

at home these people , due to their psychologically weak nature , would be conditioned , controlled and kept in place by their domineering wives and girlfriends , but in pattaya, having escaped from and freed themselves of these (necessary) control mechanisms , they are like fish out of water , in an environment so alien to them until eventually it all catches up with them , they just cant cope with the freedoms and craziness available there and they end up in a stew of alcohol , heartache and depression.

there is nothing sadder than reading about a lonely or depressed persons suicide.

[suiging]

It's often said but you very rarely loose a girl here..... Just your place in the line.

On a serious note. Most on here enjoy a good time but are also worldly wise enough to " enjoy" short term relationships for what they are. Or mature enough to wade through the masses, find the right girl ( or boy) and settle down.

Sadly Patters does attract many who do not fall into either of those afore mentioned groups.

Many believe they are " a sexy man" and the line " I love you forever" sends them into raptures and visits to the nearest Estate Agent to buy a " condo" in Nud's name, shortly before the run to UPS, to send money for auntie's operation and medicine for the sick buffalo

These poor folk often get their heart broken through no other fault than naivety.

Hand out information sheets at the airport ?

Edited July 24, 2007 by suiging

[Weho]

But I'm wondering if in OTHER expat retirement places, or long stay "vacation" places, or just places lots of expats choose to live, do those places have the same PROPORTION of these suicides as Pattaya does? Or is there something special about HERE? For example, in a place with expats, but a bit less of a party ambiance like say Hua Hin, or Chiang Mai, or maybe even Phuket... do they also have lots of farang suicides?

And I still wonder, if someone is determined to kill themself, they will do it here or in their farang country just the same... but what is it about HERE that pushes them over the edge to actually DO it?

I would guess there are few good warning signs... it's easy to say "join a group of friends", but my hunch is that's as good advice as you can give, but it probably won't be heeded.

I've always felt that the KIND of farang that would pack up and leave their home country, to come here, is probably someone who is daring, free-spirited, adventureous, a bit of a gambler, in other words, someone who can PROBABLY deal with different situations... they are PROBABLY reasonably intelligent too... so WHY do they fall for some guy or gal here, so much so, that they are willing to KILL themself? I just don't get it...

I repeat: if someone wanted to leave me, even after I bought them say a condo, I would be THRILLED that they left, showing/proving they really didn't want to be with me in the first place... I would feel I was cheated, but I would want to get them OUT of my live, and MOVE ON.

Maybe I'm naive.

[farangfool]

Does the data on suicides include the "assisted suicides" as well? Farangs falling off high rise balconies like apples from a tree do not really count as suicides in my book.

On the other hand, the high rise balconies are a needed detail helping some people saving serious cash and avoid trouble. The poor lady from Tak who had to get her husband shot because he lived in a house would fully concur with this point.

[Weho]

Does the data on suicides include the "assisted suicides" as well? Farangs falling off high rise balconies like apples from a tree do not really count as suicides in my book.

On the other hand, the high rise balconies are a needed detail helping some people saving serious cash and avoid trouble. The poor lady from Tak who had to get her husband shot because he lived in a house would fully concur with this point.

Not sure if you can count those suposedly "accidently" falling off a balcony... I would guess it's part accident, and part suicide... what kind of person would get so drunk, that they would not have the sense to climb up onto a balcony? But even if you take those away from whatever statistics, however unreliable as they may be, there are still a lot of farang suicides.

And is there some kind of 24 hour "help line", that people can call, in farang languages? I don't necessairly believe it will help someone who really is at the END, but it might help someone who is at the mid point of their depression. Where can they call?

Part of the problem has to be that desperate people have absolutely nowhere easy or convenient to turn to here. I know their local embasies and consulates are too busy networking and party planning for their own private social events, "honoring" each other, and giving fake awards to each other...

[DirkGently]

Cry me a river!

[davethailand]

Then hopefully you'll fall in it?

[roietjimmy]

My apologies for jumping into your forum but the post is most interesting. I live in Isaan and there does not seem to be the proportion of suicides you have in Pattaya. Many of the expats in Pattaya are there because to a great degree it is an anything goes party atmosphere. As your comments point out, some people are just not wired to be able to survive in an environment without rules. So put anyone in that atmosphere and it follows the suicide rate would be higher. Is there a higher proportion of suicides among Thais as well? I'd guess there is but probably not as widely publicised.

According to the "experts" 90% of all suicides are caused by depression. Depression is caused by a number of things but revolve around loss, loneliness and helplessness. Your idea of a help line might work to prevent a few suicides. Not much a help line can do about loss of a partner, job or money but can deal with loneliness and helplessness.

[luckyluke]

My apologies for jumping

[Kaojai]

and it makes me a bit angry when one realizes the attitude of the Thai government over the past year or so, which has been anti-farang, anti-easy of Visa, etc., discouraging long-stay farangs who want to spend money here,

So, you're saying that the Thai government is at fault for the suicide rate and that they should provide financial incentives for every farang who is too poor to live in his own country and whose own country fails to provide for him/her in retirement??

I fail to see why every problem faced by any farang always comes down to being the fault of the Thai people or the Thai government.

The highest suicide rates are in the world: Country, year of data, male rate per 100,000, female rate, total rate

1. Russia 2002 69.3 11.9 38.7

2. Lithuania[3][4] 2005 68.1 12.9 38.6

3. Belarus 2003 63.3 10.3 35.1

4. Kazakhstan 2002 50.2 8.8 28.8

5. Slovenia 2003 45.0 12.0 28.1

6. Hungary 2003 44.9 12.0 27.7

7. Estonia 2002 47.7 9.8 27.3

8. Ukraine 2002 46.7 8.4 26.1

9. Latvia 2003 45.0 9.7 26.0

10. Japan 2002 35.2 12.8 23.8

11. Sri Lanka 1996 NA NA 21.6

12. Belgium 1997 31.2 11.4 21.1

13. Finland 2003 31.9 9.8 20.6

14. Croatia 2004 30.2 9.8 19.6

15. Serbia and Montenegro 2002 28.8 10.4 19.3

16. Switzerland 2001 26.5 10.6 18.4

17. Cuba 1996 24.5 12.0 18.3

18. Austria 2003 27.1 9.3 17.9

19. Republic of Korea 2002 24.7 11.2 17.9

20. France 2001 26.6 9.1 17.6

I assume the blame for all of these lies somehow with the Thai government too?

There are a lot of old, lonely, poor, sick, mentally unstable farangs who have come to Thailand, especially Pattaya. They bring their baggage with them. It's hardly the responsibility of Thai people or the government.

If you're so concerned, start some outreach programme in conjunction with one of the Pattaya Expat clubs and/or a local church. Start walking around chatting up elderly farang on the beach and listen to their problems (and solve them). Of course, as is true of so many problems, it's far easier to make a speech, blame someone else, and then feel all warm & self-congratulatory for your useless rant.

Any retirement community largely populated by elderly people, especially people who are no longer connected to their families, is going to have a high incidence of depression, despair and suicide. People who have cut themselves off from families or who have not been able to save properly for retirement or who think happiness will come from friendships based solely on money are going to face even more problems than those faced by people in more stable situations who are aging.

Thailand is one of the most accomodating places in the world. People are far more pleasant to the elderly here than in most places. They are still not responsible for looking after everyone who pitches up here for a cheap retirement.

[terryp]

Without a doubt the underlying factor is the realization that their dream is over…lack of money is the most common factor..

There are a lot of very gullible and lonely people in this World…many of the males are pulled towards Pattaya like the sirens’ pulling ships onto rocks

The dramatic realization that they are not the handsome man anymore due to NO Money…sends many over the edge…literally

[terryp]

And I still wonder, if someone is determined to kill themself, they will do it here or in their farang country just the same... but what is it about HERE that pushes them over the edge to actually DO it?

I think someone is more prone to commit suicide here due to the illusion of being far far away from family or friends back home…possibly in a way trying to protect them from the grief

[britmaveric]

I think its the realization that problems in the home country don't magically disappear when they come to thailand. Lack support, no dosh only fuels the flames and add alcohol - you've got a lethal mixture.

[Meg_2003]

Many believe they are " a sexy man" and the line " I love you forever" sends them into raptures and visits to the nearest Estate Agent to buy a " condo" in Nud's name, shortly before the run to UPS, to send money for auntie's operation and medicine for the sick buffalo

SO true!!!

[Weho]

and it makes me a bit angry when one realizes the attitude of the Thai government over the past year or so, which has been anti-farang, anti-easy of Visa, etc., discouraging long-stay farangs who want to spend money here,

So, you're saying that the Thai government is at fault for the suicide rate and that they should provide financial incentives for every farang who is too poor to live in his own country and whose own country fails to provide for him/her in retirement??

I fail to see why every problem faced by any farang always comes down to being the fault of the Thai people or the Thai government.

The highest suicide rates are in the world: Country, year of data, male rate per 100,000, female rate, total rate

1. Russia 2002 69.3 11.9 38.7

2. Lithuania[3][4] 2005 68.1 12.9 38.6

3. Belarus 2003 63.3 10.3 35.1

4. Kazakhstan 2002 50.2 8.8 28.8

5. Slovenia 2003 45.0 12.0 28.1

6. Hungary 2003 44.9 12.0 27.7

7. Estonia 2002 47.7 9.8 27.3

8. Ukraine 2002 46.7 8.4 26.1

9. Latvia 2003 45.0 9.7 26.0

10. Japan 2002 35.2 12.8 23.8

11. Sri Lanka 1996 NA NA 21.6

12. Belgium 1997 31.2 11.4 21.1

13. Finland 2003 31.9 9.8 20.6

14. Croatia 2004 30.2 9.8 19.6

15. Serbia and Montenegro 2002 28.8 10.4 19.3

16. Switzerland 2001 26.5 10.6 18.4

17. Cuba 1996 24.5 12.0 18.3

18. Austria 2003 27.1 9.3 17.9

19. Republic of Korea 2002 24.7 11.2 17.9

20. France 2001 26.6 9.1 17.6

I assume the blame for all of these lies somehow with the Thai government too?

There are a lot of old, lonely, poor, sick, mentally unstable farangs who have come to Thailand, especially Pattaya. They bring their baggage with them. It's hardly the responsibility of Thai people or the government.

If you're so concerned, start some outreach programme in conjunction with one of the Pattaya Expat clubs and/or a local church. Start walking around chatting up elderly farang on the beach and listen to their problems (and solve them). Of course, as is true of so many problems, it's far easier to make a speech, blame someone else, and then feel all warm & self-congratulatory for your useless rant.

Any retirement community largely populated by elderly people, especially people who are no longer connected to their families, is going to have a high incidence of depression, despair and suicide. People who have cut themselves off from families or who have not been able to save properly for retirement or who think happiness will come from friendships based solely on money are going to face even more problems than those faced by people in more stable situations who are aging.

Thailand is one of the most accomodating places in the world. People are far more pleasant to the elderly here than in most places. They are still not responsible for looking after everyone who pitches up here for a cheap retirement.

I agree it's not the fault of the Thai government/people... but they have created/permitted a magnet here for people to come... they make a lot of money based on the foreigners they allow to live here... it works both ways: they benefit, and so do the farangs... But I think it is reasonable for them to provide a public service, maybe like a "help line", so desperate people have at least somewhere to turn to. And yes, if the home country doesn't properly help people set up for their retirement, it doesn't mean Thailand should pay/absorb any of those costs... but it almost seems like a blind eye is being turned...

Farangs jump off buildings, the Thais clean up the mess, and wait for the next farang suicide... it's as if NOTHING is being done. All I'm suggesting, at a minimum, is to have some trained people, for desperate people to turn to, to be able to talk to and get some advice... If the Thais did that, I would say they could have a clear conscience about at least TRYING, or doing SOMETHING... maybe not much, but at least SOMETHING... right now, NOTHING is being done. And the Thais bear some responsibility for that.

And your statistics of suicide rates has nothing to do with foreigners living in a foreign country. That was all meaningless information. The only relevant statistics would be comparing foreign suicides in Thailand, to say foreign people who moved TO the U.K. or USA to retire, and how many of THOSE people committed suicide... it's probably a BIG difference, with many more suicides in Thailand by foreigners living here.

[Jersey_UK]

Only lonely, broke and sad people commit suicide? LOL

Alcohol can prompt the action, but it doesn't create the desire and the reasons do not have to be based on anything that others (and even the person themselves) would call rational. Although often it does seem to be rational.

Problem a) G/f left with all yer money. Answer = go down the pub and worry about it tommorow.

Problem This time it's Wednesday. Answer = a couple of drinks and a skydive.

Edited July 24, 2007 by Jersey_UK

[MisterFingers]

There are a few good reasons why Pattaya seems to be a place where tourists/expats seem to take there own lives more than elsewhere:

1) People away from home:

- people tend to want to do it away from home so their body isn't discovered by a loved one or friend

- many people leave their home town to end their life

- there's an island in Japan that's even worse than Pattaya where young Japanese women go, but I forget the name

2) Pattaya addiction syndrome:

- many people have a hard time leaving Pattaya, the easiest place in the world to get laid

- they stay until the funds get dry and give themselves three options; stay in Pattaya broke, go home, end it all

3) Pattaya is a magnet for mentally disturbed people:

- need I say more?

4) Suicides make the daily front page:

- suicides and deaths by natural causes make the front page headlines, pictures and all, so long as police were called to a location

- is there anywhere else in the world that does this?

[farangfool]

i m not sure at all that all these suicides are suicides. The falling off balcony stories etc. are perfect pretexts to close investigations and then that's it.

Seeing all the big investments going up along beach rd and in jomtien, there is a strong desire to present pattaya as something better than it actually us. Thus, suicides keep the ugly crime rate low and dont create such a mess like the recent shooting of the German ex-bib.

I recall reading how 1 person jumped off his balcony in jomtien and then another farang moved into his place living with the dead man's ex-gf. Makes me wonder if this is occurring more often. Running out of money could simply mean that the money and gf is gone when he touches ground.

Perhaps more thorough investigations would throw a different light on all these depressions etc.

[Weho]

I think there is basic agreement on WHY these suicides happen... but not a lot of information on what to do to help, if it is even possible.

I read that there is apparently a group, presumably associated with the Pattaya Expats Club, called "F.A.S.T." Farang And & Support Team.

It's for some kind of emergency help, not sure what kind. They give a phone: 038 416 693 and a website, www.fastaid.co.th

They have some kind of office in the carpark of Jomtien Soi 5, at the left side of the Immigration Office, at the end beside the main building.

They also list a U.K. representative for emergencies, Barry Kenyon, or his assistant Khun Sasamon Khempookeau: cell 08 1782 7363, who apparently is at the Meesen Restaurant by the Immigration car park, 9 to 9:30 AM monday to fridays.

There is a U.S. Embassy local Pattaya representive for emergencies: Gary Hacker: 089 803 0388.

I have no idea what these people/groups do, but presumably, if you have nowhere else to turn to, you might contact them.

And if there is someone who is hurting is reading this: don't dispair... If you end it all, you'll miss out on reading things like the cruton shortage, or the fights the Regatta Developers are having, and the View Talay fights are good too...

Plus I may have a report in November or December on my trip through the Middle East. I don't think you want to miss that.

[popshirt]

Plus I may have a report in November or December on my trip through the Middle East. I don't think you want to miss that.

Oh please do, I wouldn't miss it for the world. You are the reason I read the Pattaya Forum (especially since Libya's disappearance).

By the way I have only just returned from Bahrain; believe me you will find much to write about in the Middle East.

WeLuvWeHo !

[Weho]

Plus I may have a report in November or December on my trip through the Middle East. I don't think you want to miss that.

Oh please do, I wouldn't miss it for the world. You are the reason I read the Pattaya Forum (especially since Libya's disappearance).

By the way I have only just returned from Bahrain; believe me you will find much to write about in the Middle East.

WeLuvWeHo !

Are you saying that IF you were the kind of person that was going to kill themself, the prospect of a future travelogue from ME, would keep you from KILLING yourself? If that it what you mean, please address that... as it may inspire others that there IS a reason to continue, no matter how bleak the future may look.

I am thinking of going to the Middle East soley for the purpose of monitoring and policing buffet lines. I am not ashamed to admit that I do enjoy that, and often find it more worthwhile than visiting fake touristy sights, like the Dubai gold souk. Puh-leese...

[R123]

Have to say travelling around Pattaya one sees a high number of elderly, seemingly lonely looking males around.

A lot of them give the impression of being bitter and resentful.

Many are shabbily dressed so wonder if anyone has done the statistic's of how many millionaires or well off farangs in Pattaya are committing suicide?

And it if someone comes to Pattaya without resources or adequate funds,or is stupid enough to lose what they have, whose fault is that?

[vegas]

Does the data on suicides include the "assisted suicides" as well? Farangs falling off high rise balconies like apples from a tree do not really count as suicides in my book.

On the other hand, the high rise balconies are a needed detail helping some people saving serious cash and avoid trouble. The poor lady from Tak who had to get her husband shot because he lived in a house would fully concur with this point.

Are you referring to the guy that 'jumped' from the balcony of his apartment in Pattaya while tied hand and foot to his wheelchair?