Farangs And Falangs

[garro]

Hi Keestha, I agree with you and of course it is better to follow the local pronunciation to get understood. My point is about writing a Thai ร in roman script and that the accepted form for this is 'r'.

[qwertz]

Speaking the fully correct Thai, saying krap and not kap, and farang instead of falang, would make you less well understood. An unwritten set of rules has developed when to pronounce the ร raw reua as an L and when as an R in informal everyday conversation. In the word karakadakom (july) it is an R, in falang it is an L. Sure it depends on where in Thailand you are, also. But I have seen Thais frowning their eyebrows, really having to concentrate understanding a foreigner who learned his oh so correct Thai in a language school.

Oh well, speaking a foreign language has its own psychology I guess. When I am speaking German, which is not my native language, I am sticking more closely to the correct grammar than the native speakers do. Speaking a foreign language you really want to speak it perfectly, whilst you are quite slack handling your own language.

I think this underlines what Bendix really asked, if it's at all possible to get inside his head.

Like Keeestha, I speak German as a foreign language and don't follow the North German pronuciation.

So when they say "moin" I say "morgen" and "dass" instead of "det".

Bendix is a little academic in his thinking so he might be basing his experiences on "King's Thai"

BTW, I wonder if HIs Majesty says "falang".

[SwaziBird]

Why oh why do people say 'falang' when it is obviously 'farang'?

Would a foreigner unable to pronounce the letter 'r' and calls a rabbit a 'wabbit' also write 'wabbit' in a letter or a forum post? No, I think not. So copy this mispronunciation, both verbally and in writing? Why 'falang'?

I have a theory.

The type of farang who uses the word 'falang' has spent too much time around Thai's who can't say 'farang'. Read into that what you will . ..

Bendix,

The question you pose has not been answered. Will there EVER be a satisfactory answer when nobody seems to have a clue about this madness .

I hesitate to suggest that I am infuriated ( because that indicates weakness) but I'm pretty amazed at the system which invites us to read names on street signs and map bearings etc in English script when the "authorities"concerned use "r"s whilst the locals pronounce the words with "l""s.

Especially infuriating ( scrub ïnfuriating") amazing, is the pronunciation of English words such as "Grand Hotel" as ...well you know what ! I just can't bring myself to say it or write it !

Did I say a "madness"???

[pop3]

Farang or falang who cares ? its a derogatory term anyway. just like calling someone a Pakki or a Nigger. but rolls off the tongue better than Chow tang chat.

[meemiathai]

Farang or falang who cares ? its a derogatory term anyway. just like calling someone a Pakki or a Nigger. but rolls off the tongue better than Chow tang chat.

May I ask just where exactly did you learn that the term was derogatory? I just can't understand why people insist on saying that it is a derogatory term! Did your thai friends or your thai teacher tell you that?

[lazeeboy]

Happy birthday Bendix !

You slipped that in discretely you shy bugger you.

PS

I was thinking of slipping off to a neighbouring nation where the term is "barang".

If I pronounce that with an 'l' will people mark me down as a low-life?

PPS

Is there any country where the term for foreignor is "borrocks" ?

like it

[pop3]

Farang or falang who cares ? its a derogatory term anyway. just like calling someone a Pakki or a Nigger. but rolls off the tongue better than Chow tang chat.

May I ask just where exactly did you learn that the term was derogatory? I just can't understand why people insist on saying that it is a derogatory term! Did your thai friends or your thai teacher tell you that?

Yes.

[Maigo6]

Yes.

No.

pop 3, you are totally wrong, I will not accuse you of being a Troll cos you've been a member for years, but after all these years, you should know better.

Maybe you've just become Jaded, bitter and twisted. ( all three ? )

Flights back to Europe at 18000 Baht I heard.

[meemiathai]

Farang or falang who cares ? its a derogatory term anyway. just like calling someone a Pakki or a Nigger. but rolls off the tongue better than Chow tang chat.

May I ask just where exactly did you learn that the term was derogatory? I just can't understand why people insist on saying that it is a derogatory term! Did your thai friends or your thai teacher tell you that?

Yes.

Thanks for the answer.

But was it one thai friend or all thai friends? Was it one thai teacher or many thai teachers?

I simply cannot understand how people can live in thailand but still cannot understand the usage of the word "farang"?

[phutoie2]

My next door neighbour on Samui was called Giles. I still tease my wife that "I am meeting Giles at the Jet garage"

[pop3]

<br />

Farang or falang who cares ? its a derogatory term anyway. just like calling someone a Pakki or a Nigger. but rolls off the tongue better than Chow tang chat.

<br />May I ask just where exactly did you learn that the term was derogatory? I just can't understand why people insist on saying that it is a derogatory term! Did your thai friends or your thai teacher tell you that?<br />

<br /><br /><br />Yes.<br />

<br />Thanks for the answer. <img src="style_emoticons/default/jap.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="jap.gif" /> <br /><br />But was it one thai friend or all thai friends? Was it one thai teacher or many thai teachers? <br />I simply cannot understand how people can live in thailand but still cannot understand the usage of the word "farang"?<br /> <img src="style_emoticons/default/huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="huh.gif" /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

The Thais that tell me its derogatory are Thai friends that I have had for years, well educated Thai Chinese. when ever Ive asked them about this they just smile in an awkward way and say yes it is derogatory but its so much easier to say than chow tang chat, and they don't mean to be derogatory to me personally. Now to me thats admitting its not a nice name to be calling us.

I have often thought of a derogatory name for the Thai race to say back to them but have never managed to come up with one. Anybody here know one ? I bet the Cambodians have a few !

[technocracy]

There is absolutely nothing derogatory about falang in Lao - so I don't see why it would be in Thai.

Sounds like your 'friends' are taking the piss!

[meemiathai]

<br />

Farang or falang who cares ? its a derogatory term anyway. just like calling someone a Pakki or a Nigger. but rolls off the tongue better than Chow tang chat.

<br />May I ask just where exactly did you learn that the term was derogatory? I just can't understand why people insist on saying that it is a derogatory term! Did your thai friends or your thai teacher tell you that?<br />

<br /><br /><br />Yes.<br />

<br />Thanks for the answer. <img src="style_emoticons/default/jap.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="jap.gif" /> <br /><br />But was it one thai friend or all thai friends? Was it one thai teacher or many thai teachers? <br />I simply cannot understand how people can live in thailand but still cannot understand the usage of the word "farang"?<br /> <img src="style_emoticons/default/huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="huh.gif" /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

The Thais that tell me its derogatory are Thai friends that I have had for years, well educated Thai Chinese. when ever Ive asked them about this they just smile in an awkward way and say yes it is derogatory but its so much easier to say than chow tang chat, and they don't mean to be derogatory to me personally. Now to me thats admitting its not a nice name to be calling us.

I have often thought of a derogatory name for the Thai race to say back to them but have never managed to come up with one. Anybody here know one ? I bet the Cambodians have a few !

What your friends are saying does not even make sense. "Khon tang chat" does not even hold the same meaning with "farang". Is it one group of thai friends or is it quite a few different friends? You are getting wrong information! Do you watch thai TV? Do you ever hear the word farang on TV? If the word "farang" is being said all the time on television, how would it be considered derogatory? Are you saying the thais are blatantly insulting westerners everyday?

It is quite annoying really seeing westerners taking offense all the time of the use of the term "farang" when it is in fact used innocently.

[Neeranam]

<br />

Farang or falang who cares ? its a derogatory term anyway. just like calling someone a Pakki or a Nigger. but rolls off the tongue better than Chow tang chat.

<br />May I ask just where exactly did you learn that the term was derogatory? I just can't understand why people insist on saying that it is a derogatory term! Did your thai friends or your thai teacher tell you that?<br />

<br /><br /><br />Yes.<br />

<br />Thanks for the answer. <img src="style_emoticons/default/jap.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="jap.gif" /> <br /><br />But was it one thai friend or all thai friends? Was it one thai teacher or many thai teachers? <br />I simply cannot understand how people can live in thailand but still cannot understand the usage of the word "farang"?<br /> <img src="style_emoticons/default/huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="huh.gif" /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

The Thais that tell me its derogatory are Thai friends that I have had for years, well educated Thai Chinese. when ever Ive asked them about this they just smile in an awkward way and say yes it is derogatory but its so much easier to say than chow tang chat, and they don't mean to be derogatory to me personally. Now to me thats admitting its not a nice name to be calling us.

I have often thought of a derogatory name for the Thai race to say back to them but have never managed to come up with one. Anybody here know one ? I bet the Cambodians have a few !

What your friends are saying does not even make sense. "Khon tang chat" does not even hold the same meaning with "farang". Is it one group of thai friends or is it quite a few different friends? You are getting wrong information! Do you watch thai TV? Do you ever hear the word farang on TV? If the word "farang" is being said all the time on television, how would it be considered derogatory? Are you saying the thais are blatantly insulting westerners everyday?

It is quite annoying really seeing westerners taking offense all the time of the use of the term "farang" when it is in fact used innocently.

It has become derogatory in many Thai places. If I meet an Isarn farmer and he calls me farang, I laugh.

If I met a Thai Chinese in Bk and he calls me farang I don't laugh - I probably call him 'Jek'.

Jek used not to be derogatory, but now is.

Kaek used not to be derogatory, but now usually is.

Paki used not to be but now is.

Njgger used not to be then was and now isn't.

Farang used not to be and now widely is.

It has a lot to do with the stress and intonation of the word 'farang'.

[realthaideal]

"The type of farang who uses the word 'falang' has spent too much time around Thai's who can't say 'farang'. Read into that what you will . .."

Dude. It's just formality vs informality. If we were all on national tv, or addressing some superiors, fine, roll the 'r', but other wise YOU read into it whatever YOu will, but it's not about more superior - or 'gone Thai' than thou.

If you go around in general life speaking like they teach you in the language academies (saying chan, di-chan, rolling r') you're gonna sound like a chump. BTW really I could've written 'going to' but I wanted you to hear it just how I wanted you to hear, c'est ca.

I see those folks around sometimes asking tao rai, saying mai pen rai, di-chan, etc, it's good for a laugh... though I'm glad they're trying.

And actually, as I end this post, bo pen yang. Not worth my time.

[garro]

"The type of farang who uses the word 'falang' has spent too much time around Thai's who can't say 'farang'. Read into that what you will . .."

Dude. It's just formality vs informality. If we were all on national tv, or addressing some superiors, fine, roll the 'r', but other wise YOU read into it whatever YOu will, but it's not about more superior - or 'gone Thai' than thou.

If you go around in general life speaking like they teach you in the language academies (saying chan, di-chan, rolling r') you're gonna sound like a chump. BTW really I could've written 'going to' but I wanted you to hear it just how I wanted you to hear, c'est ca.

I see those folks around sometimes asking tao rai, saying mai pen rai, di-chan, etc, it's good for a laugh... though I'm glad they're trying.

And actually, as I end this post, bo pen yang. Not worth my time.

What a strange sense of humour you have. If hearing people pronounce the 'r' sound makes you laugh you must be in hysterics when you watch Thai TV or travel around different regions of Thailand.

[chrisspursbkk1]

Read into that what you will . ..

I'll read into it as a waste of time, why worry how its said? as long as you understand it. Do you understand it? if so then why would it bither you?

[mr_hippo]

Farang or falang? Personally, I am English and not any form of foreigner! Farang seems to be the most used and falang appears to be the pidgin version of it. I know I am generalising here but tend to put all those who say 'falang' in the group that uses pidgin when speaking to other native speakers and who try to impress others dropping the occasional foreign word into their speech - wasn't there a thread something like "How much is a Baan บ้าน?"?

[garro]

I think the great thing about living in Thailand for a few years is that you lose the need to impress others with your Thai language skills. It just becomes a means of comunication.

[mr_hippo]

I think the great thing about living in Thailand for a few years is that you lose the need to impress others with your Thai language skills. It just becomes a means of comunication.

Why not just say "How much is a house?"?

[garro]

I suppose in a way it is quite clever, because even though it annoyed you it made you notice the thread.

[geriatrickid]

Some "english" speaking folks think aks is an appropriate pronounciation of ask and he workin' is acceptable instead of he is working etc. These people are not going to be the movers and shakers in a society where english is the primary language. When a person who's native tongue is english, uses incorrect pronounciations, the person is perceived to either be stupid or undeducated, unless that person is amongst those of a similar background.

Some Thais do indeed say falang instead of farang, just as many chinese say "remon" instead of lemon. No doubt my pronounciation of thai must make Thais cringe, however, they take it within the context that I am a foreigner. It reflects poorly upon the english speaker when he or she emulates the foreign or poor pronounciation of english words.

All languages rely on accepted syntax and grammar rules. Flagrant disrespect by a native speaker for those rules simply announces that the native speaker or writer is either; uneducated, illiterate, stupid, lazy or a combination thereof. (Emphasis on native speaker and flagrant.)

[pop3]

It has become derogatory in many Thai places. If I meet an Isarn farmer and he calls me farang, I laugh.

If I met a Thai Chinese in Bk and he calls me farang I don't laugh - I probably call him 'Jek'.

...............................................

Exactly.

The fact farang is used on tv ? yes its used on Thai soaps. If you look at any Thai government tv or anything from the King then we’re Chow tang chat.

It seems its only Neeranam who is aware of this and the rest of you are blinded by the smile as the educated Thai’s use the derogatory term.

[JetsetBkk]

If you look at any Thai government tv or anything from the King then we’re Chow tang chat.

Can you write that in Thai please?

[Neeranam]

ชาวต่างชาติ

[garro]

I like the new avatar Neeranam. I think a lot of posters here suffer from both the conditions you mention in it.

[WaiWai]

These people are not going to be the movers and shakers in a society where english is the primary language.

How do you explain GWB then ?

[Travel2003]

Wonder how many countries where they use "l" instead of "r".

Remember my fist time to Hong Kong, about 15 years ago, on a ship yard.

The local service man told me " Thel is an ellol he. betleen the magletic and the gylo".

I said huh?

He repeated himself 2-3 times, and I finally got it.

Had to turn around not to be rude and laugh when he looked at me.

Later I learned to appreciate these little differences in the various countries.

Today, I think back how little I knew about the world and how much I have come to love the different ways we speak/write.

[Neeranam]

I like the new avatar Neeranam. I think a lot of posters here suffer from both the conditions you mention in it.

[meemiathai]

It has become derogatory in many Thai places. If I meet an Isarn farmer and he calls me farang, I laugh.

If I met a Thai Chinese in Bk and he calls me farang I don't laugh - I probably call him 'Jek'.

...............................................

Exactly.

The fact farang is used on tv ? yes its used on Thai soaps. If you look at any Thai government tv or anything from the King then we’re Chow tang chat.

It seems its only Neeranam who is aware of this and the rest of you are blinded by the smile as the educated Thai’s use the derogatory term.

Can people get stupider than that? So you think if the educated thais really wanted to insult you, they have no other words than the word farang to use? Is that your logic?

You can be Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese, American or British.......................................with any skin colour as a "khon tang chat". But to refer to you as farang, you are a white! Caucasion!