Somepeople Just Don't Get It

[H2oDunc]

Popped out with Mrs H2o for a shandy to the local bar in town last night. The bar is a transit point for people going to or coming from the islands,Tao KPG or Samui. A guy who had been on KPG was asking about the bike. He mentioned that he didn't ride them as he had trouble going round corners. I tried to explain that there are a few ways of cornering on a bike as in leaning, turning the handlebars or a combination of the two. Where most people go wrong in cornering at speed is they turn the handlebars the wrong way and end up going straight on! At speed centrifugal forces mean that if you turn the bars to the left, the bike will go right and if you turn right the bike will go left. The guy just thought I was taking the mick. His friends also thought the same. They must have had a few too many mushroom shakes I think. The same guy who was berating me for riding such a big bike, I got the impression he was a bit of a tree hugger,due to global warming etc couldn't grasp the fact that if all the icebergs melted the sea level would not rise 1 mm. I again tried to explain about a guy called Archimedes and about displacement but again might as well have been talking to the bar cat.

Do they not teach anything in school these days ??

[Carmine6]

So the guy is going to fly out on a plane and somehow that's environmentally ok? Reminds me of my vegetarian friend who wears leather jackets.

[lazeeboy]

So the guy is going to fly out on a plane and somehow that's environmentally ok? Reminds me of my vegetarian friend who wears leather jackets.

got the iceburg bit ,but turning left to go right

[hiromj]

So the guy is going to fly out on a plane and somehow that's environmentally ok? Reminds me of my vegetarian friend who wears leather jackets.

got the iceburg bit ,but turning left to go right

I didn't get it either and I ride everyday.

[chavy]

Do they not teach anything in school these days ??

Obviously nothing of any use

[pgrin]

Popped out with Mrs H2o for a shandy to the local bar in town last night. The bar is a transit point for people going to or coming from the islands,Tao KPG or Samui. A guy who had been on KPG was asking about the bike. He mentioned that he didn't ride them as he had trouble going round corners. I tried to explain that there are a few ways of cornering on a bike as in leaning, turning the handlebars or a combination of the two. Where most people go wrong in cornering at speed is they turn the handlebars the wrong way and end up going straight on! At speed centrifugal forces mean that if you turn the bars to the left, the bike will go right and if you turn right the bike will go left. The guy just thought I was taking the mick. His friends also thought the same. They must have had a few too many mushroom shakes I think. The same guy who was berating me for riding such a big bike, I got the impression he was a bit of a tree hugger,due to global warming etc couldn't grasp the fact that if all the icebergs melted the sea level would not rise 1 mm. I again tried to explain about a guy called Archimedes and about displacement but again might as well have been talking to the bar cat.

Do they not teach anything in school these days ??

Counter-Steering

[Maigo6]

So the guy is going to fly out on a plane and somehow that's environmentally ok? Reminds me of my vegetarian friend who wears leather jackets.

got the iceburg bit ,but turning left to go right

I didn't get it either and I ride everyday.

[hiromj]

Popped out with Mrs H2o for a shandy to the local bar in town last night. The bar is a transit point for people going to or coming from the islands,Tao KPG or Samui. A guy who had been on KPG was asking about the bike. He mentioned that he didn't ride them as he had trouble going round corners. I tried to explain that there are a few ways of cornering on a bike as in leaning, turning the handlebars or a combination of the two. Where most people go wrong in cornering at speed is they turn the handlebars the wrong way and end up going straight on! At speed centrifugal forces mean that if you turn the bars to the left, the bike will go right and if you turn right the bike will go left. The guy just thought I was taking the mick. His friends also thought the same. They must have had a few too many mushroom shakes I think. The same guy who was berating me for riding such a big bike, I got the impression he was a bit of a tree hugger,due to global warming etc couldn't grasp the fact that if all the icebergs melted the sea level would not rise 1 mm. I again tried to explain about a guy called Archimedes and about displacement but again might as well have been talking to the bar cat.

Do they not teach anything in school these days ??

Counter-Steering

Hmmm. I guess I stand corrected

[MrSnrang]

It this like a feint of scandanavian flick?

[jumnien]

It's always good to have a few tricks up your sleave like this when you are half-crocked and want to get into righteous indignation in a verbal barfight.

[PeaceBlondie]

Not counting my bicycles, I bought my first motorized two wheeler in 1961, and I still don't "get it" about gyroscopic precession. I read several m/c magzines per month for many years, and never understood "countersteering." I just read Mr. Davis' article and still don't understand what the heck these guys have been on about all these years. 300,000 kilometers on two wheels, and every time I consciously tried to push the right handgrip to the left, the bike didn't go right.

However, if you wish to get in a bar argument over IRC code subsection 6229(d), or 6653(a)(1)(, and their interplay with 6621© formerly 6621(d), I can humiliate you until you pay for my Diet Coke, and I can walk smugly out and get onto my CBR150R and ride off without countersteering.

But oh yes, may God rescue us from those gosh darned tree huggers, and may we all drive 2.3 liter motorcycles and 9.9 liter SUV's to the ecology meetings.

[crockett]

http://www.turborider.com/trailer.htm

Download Trailer 4 on how to ride a bike properly.

cheers,

crockett

[H2oDunc]

So the guy is going to fly out on a plane and somehow that's environmentally ok? Reminds me of my vegetarian friend who wears leather jackets.

got the iceburg bit ,but turning left to go right

I didn't get it either and I ride everyday.

Try it the next time you ride down a straight road. Turn the bars to the left and the bike will go to the right and vise versa. Did nobody here do the experiment at school . You take a cycle wheel on a long axle which you hold at arms length. Somebody spins the wheel till its spinning fast then tilt the thing to the left and see what happens.

[chownah]

Counter steering....to turn right you must lean right....to turn right quickly you must lean right quickly. If you just lean your body to the right you will slowly lean the bike to the right and you will slowly turn right but there is a limit as to how fast you can make the bike lean by just leaning your body. If you want the bike to lean to the right quickly then what you can do is to make the bike move to the left while you also lean to the right....the bike moves out from under you so to speak and the result is that the bike leans very very quickly.....after the corrct amount of lean is established you ease up on the steering force and the result is a very very quickly initated right turn.....think of the counter steer as being just the very beginning of the turning movement...something that just gets you leaning in the right direction very quickly..........it can get much more sophisticated than this though....if you find a road with a bunch of linked turns and you are going the right speed then the counter steer and recovery can set you up for the conter steer and recovery for the next turn which can set you up for the next counter steer etc.....so what you've got is a series of hard fast turns with a moment of seeming weightlessness between!!!!!!!!!!.........now we're flying!!! !!bouncing!!!! !!!!!!flying!!!! !!!bouncing!!!! !!!flying!!!!!!!. ........just don't bounce too hard and be sure you are flying in the right direction!

Chownah

Edited September 4, 2007 by chownah

[JimsKnight]

Had H2Os spiel explained to me a while back (on Koh Tao) I didn't believe it either at first, but I thought 'Lets put it to the test!'

So off I rode towards Mae Haad and tried to turn the handlebars into first sharp turn... Nearly crashed as the forward momentum can almost jerk it the opposite way!

However at very slow speeds you can disregard the rule of opposites, but only at sub 10 mph etc.

That bar in Chumpon (farang bar?), yeah I've had some proper fruitcakes in there trying to tell me that the main ferry sank one week and was recovered by the farang divers on Koh Tao! What are these morons taking?

What size cc was it you ride H2O? 400?

[duratanium]

Counter steering....to turn right you must lean right....to turn right quickly you must lean right quickly. If you just lean your body to the right you will slowly lean the bike to the right and you will slowly turn right but there is a limit as to how fast you can make the bike lean by just leaning your body. If you want the bike to lean to the right quickly then what you can do is to make the bike move to the left while you also lean to the right....the bike moves out from under you so to speak and the result is that the bike leans very very quickly.....after the corrct amount of lean is established you ease up on the steering force and the result is a very very quickly initated right turn.....think of the counter steer as being just the very beginning of the turning movement...something that just gets you leaning in the right direction very quickly..........it can get much more sophisticated than this though....if you find a road with a bunch of linked turns and you are going the right speed then the counter steer and recovery can set you up for the conter steer and recovery for the next turn which can set you up for the next counter steer etc.....so what you've got is a series of hard fast turns with a moment of seeming weightlessness between!!!!!!!!!!.........now we're flying!!! !!bouncing!!!! !!!!!!flying!!!! !!!bouncing!!!! !!!flying!!!!!!!. ........just don't bounce too hard and be sure you are flying in the right direction!

Chownah

Sounds like some type of new wonder drug for heavy metal bikers ... brilliant Chownah

[Ricardo]

I ride a bicycle, so can't comment, on the motorbikes, except that 2 wheels are better than 4 !

And a melting iceberg does of course already displace a similar volume of sea water, so it will have no effect, when it melts.

But he might have been talking about the non-floating icebergs, or glaciers, standing on Greenland or the Antarctic, which are apparently melting & ready to slide into the sea. These are very real cause for concern ! See Al Gore's film for more details. Scary

[H2oDunc]

Had H2Os spiel explained to me a while back (on Koh Tao) I didn't believe it either at first, but I thought 'Lets put it to the test!'

So off I rode towards Mae Haad and tried to turn the handlebars into first sharp turn... Nearly crashed as the forward momentum can almost jerk it the opposite way!

However at very slow speeds you can disregard the rule of opposites, but only at sub 10 mph etc.

That bar in Chumpon (farang bar?), yeah I've had some proper fruitcakes in there trying to tell me that the main ferry sank one week and was recovered by the farang divers on Koh Tao! What are these morons taking?

What size cc was it you ride H2O? 400?

400cc Jim no I have the PLEASURE of owning 2,300cc of British engineering excellence in the Triumph Rocket 3. A truly awesome machine. 140 bhp, 145 electrically limited MPH, pulls 1.2g under acceleration. more torque at tickover than a Honda Blackbird at 8,500rpm the list goes on. Needless to say gives me more smiles per mile than any bike I've ever had and believe me 've had a few.

[helitool]

"And a melting iceberg does of course already displace a similar volume of sea water, so it will have no effect, when it melts."

Actually the ice they are woried about covers the land portion of the arctic and is not submerged in water so if it melted it would raise the ocean level about 50cm or so. not much but enough to remove BKK and many other coastal areas from the livability equation.

[H2oDunc]

I ride a bicycle, so can't comment, on the motorbikes, except that 2 wheels are better than 4 !

And a melting iceberg does of course already displace a similar volume of sea water, so it will have no effect, when it melts.

But he might have been talking about the non-floating icebergs, or glaciers, standing on Greenland or the Antarctic, which are apparently melting & ready to slide into the sea. These are very real cause for concern ! See Al Gore's film for more details. Scary

Ricardo I've seen the film and its political propaganda. The world has been warming and cooling since it began life. Watch the Great global warming swindle here

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites...ndle/index.html

All this global warming crap is just an excuse to tax you till you squeek. British tax payers paid 29 billion pounds in GREEN TAX. Which is a great deal more han to offset the " SUPPOSED " warming. Those that have been brainwashed wont be told any different.

[Ricardo]

"And a melting iceberg does of course already displace a similar volume of sea water, so it will have no effect, when it melts."

Actually the ice they are woried about covers the land portion of the arctic and is not submerged in water so if it melted it would raise the ocean level about 50cm or so. not much but enough to remove BKK and many other coastal areas from the livability equation.

Sorry, I agree and said that, I must have been unclear in my previous post.

Al Gore claims, in his film 'An Inconvenient Truth', that a 20-foot rise world-wide will result, if either the Greenland or the Antarctic glaciers melt.

Suddenly my decision not to buy land within 100 feet af a Thai beach seems more forward-seeing than I had thought at the time I made it !

[PeaceBlondie]

Indeed, I'm reading my big Hammond Atlas based on National Geographic's map series of Antarctica, which shows an icecap a thousand km in diameter, two or three kilometers high, which equates to a trillion decillion squillion quadrillion liters of water which would not be displaced by anything except hot air.

I stopped trying to outsmart big liars at the bar when a young kid in a new sports car started telling us about the dashboard of the latest Jaguar. That was the month his father inherited the American East Coast distributorship for most English car marques. I bought my racing Triumph three years later, which was still back in the Dark Ages, when the Triumph legacy included total undependability.

[seonai]

When I first started riding a motorbike I used to think it was going to fall over on corners

[youbet]

You take a cycle wheel on a long axle which you hold at arms length. Somebody spins the wheel till its spinning fast then tilt the thing to the left and see what happens.

this is the old "which way does the water go down the plug hole trick". Try the same wheel spinning experiment in Lima and see which way it turns - left!

Edited September 4, 2007 by youbet

[Carmine6]

I ride a bicycle, so can't comment, on the motorbikes, except that 2 wheels are better than 4 !

And a melting iceberg does of course already displace a similar volume of sea water, so it will have no effect, when it melts.

But he might have been talking about the non-floating icebergs, or glaciers, standing on Greenland or the Antarctic, which are apparently melting & ready to slide into the sea. These are very real cause for concern ! See Al Gore's film for more details. Scary

Ricardo I've seen the film and its political propaganda. The world has been warming and cooling since it began life. Watch the Great global warming swindle here

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites...ndle/index.html

All this global warming crap is just an excuse to tax you till you squeek. British tax payers paid 29 billion pounds in GREEN TAX. Which is a great deal more han to offset the " SUPPOSED " warming. Those that have been brainwashed wont be told any different.

Here's a site with a bit more scientific content. Scroll all the way to the bottom for the takeaways if the content is too boring, but really it is a good read. Unfortunately probably 90+% of reporters and media wouldn't understand the content.

http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/

[hiromj]

O.K. I tested the handlebar theory last night and again this morning. Now, keep in mind that I have an awsome ride to work. I ride along the ocean, then up over a mountain, then down to the port where I get off my bike and onto the ferry boat, and rarely see another car. So, I have at least a half dozen "hairpin curves" and numerous "S" curves. I always noticed that when I turned right, for example, I could "feel it" in my right arm. I just assumed that it was because gravity was forcing my weight on my right arm. Now that I have finally paid attention, I have noticed that I am actually pushing the right handlebar (counter steering). This revelation sure has changed the way I ride, it's much more fun now. This is one if the few times that I actually wish I went to college to learn something. Again, I stand corrected. My thanks to the OP for pointing this out.

Cheers.

Edited September 5, 2007 by hiromj

[technocracy]

I get it completely.

As it plain and simple the only way your knee is gonna touch the ground is a combination of leaning your arse right off the seat AND counter-steering put together and *SCRAPE* *SCRAPE* goes the knee slider . . . pity I never get the chance anymore!

I think I might have to return to UK just to do a track day with hired bikes.

On this note I was at the IOM TT the other year and Honda were there with this supposeable 'GP Simulator' (not an arcade game) it had a full size bike (albeit plastic) and you leaned everything as you would a real bike however first corner I lean the bike and instictively countersteered . . . it seemed they didn't emulate countersteering and the computerised bike went completely opposite direction and crashed! At that point I just got of the thing and let some other sucker play!

Edited September 5, 2007 by technocracy

[phibunmike]

If you ride along a flat, straight road, with no traffic...

Instead of holding the handle bars, just gently rest the flat of your palms or fingers on them; then gently push with the right hand; the bike leans right and turns right - you don't have to do anything else (except straighten up again, of course, because this was a straight road - remember?).

Coriolis' force cause the lean, and the lean causes the steer.

Cheers,

Mike

[Dustoff]

Not counting my bicycles, I bought my first motorized two wheeler in 1961, and I still don't "get it" about gyroscopic precession. I read several m/c magzines per month for many years, and never understood "countersteering." I just read Mr. Davis' article and still don't understand what the heck these guys have been on about all these years. 300,000 kilometers on two wheels, and every time I consciously tried to push the right handgrip to the left, the bike didn't go right.

However, if you wish to get in a bar argument over IRC code subsection 6229(d), or 6653(a)(1)(, and their interplay with 6621© formerly 6621(d), I can humiliate you until you pay for my Diet Coke, and I can walk smugly out and get onto my CBR150R and ride off without countersteering.

But oh yes, may God rescue us from those gosh darned tree huggers, and may we all drive 2.3 liter motorcycles and 9.9 liter SUV's to the ecology meetings.

A fun post but actually if you ride at all, you countersteer all the time just like everyone else. Try it the way that is recommended and push right on the right handgrip, not left. The bike immediately turns to the right even though you are actually turning the front wheel to the left.

I bought my first motorcycle in 1958, an old '51 Harley, and the older biker who sold it to me gave me some lessons and valuable safety tips, one of which was about countersteering. It is the fastest way to rapidly avoid unexpected obstacles or potholes in the road while simple leaning is a far, far slower way to get the bike to turn, especially at high speeds.

Check it out; when you are in a really tight turn, you will find that you are automatically pushing down on the lower handgrip, effectively turning the front wheel in the opposite direction. I consciously use countersteering every time I ride and have never put a bike down, and every riding school or professional racer knows about it.

Don't buy the 'earth's coriolus' forces having any effect. The bike response exactly the same in either hemisphere.

If this thread continues on a global warming slant, its going to get really ugly...

[Dustoff]

So the guy is going to fly out on a plane and somehow that's environmentally ok? Reminds me of my vegetarian friend who wears leather jackets.

got the iceburg bit ,but turning left to go right

I didn't get it either and I ride everyday.

Good pic and that says it about as well as anything. Note the front wheel is not turned to the left but even slightly to the right.

The over-lean that the drivers are using is fine on a track that is kept scrupulously clean but public roads are no such thing. Leaning like that in a really tight turn helps take some of the pressure off the arms in maintaining the countersteer but on the highway if you hit an oil patch, gravel, sand whatever, you are in poor position to get the bike back upright in an unexpected slide.

I use countersteer almost exclusively, especially in town traffic where you want quick steering responses from your machine. Simple leaning just doesn't do it and I usually lean only to stay centered over the bike's center of gravity - which of course is not leaning at all in reference to the bike itself. On questionable roads and blind corners, I actually push the bike down even more and keep my body in a more upright position in reference to the road. When/if you hit something slick, you have a far higher chance of using your own weight to haul the bike up and out of a potential dump. Been there, done that and still haven't scratched paint/me in over 50 years of riding...