Koh Samui Voted 14th Down From 6th Last Year

[chinthee]

Alright, let's take this argument to its absurd conclusion. Do all of you waving the flag for BKA think that they should have an absolute and irrevocable monopoly forever? Can you envision 20 years on, and they are still the only carrier flying to Samui controlling the only airport? Is that what serves the interests of all best?

Monopolies make decisions that maximize their own profits. Nothing wrong with this as long as they can get away with it. There will be a point where it has to stop. Period.

[womble]

Seems there is two schools of thought, one that believes they have the right to charge what they want and get paid for it as they buillt the airport........

and others who believe monopolies should only be allowed to operate for a set number of years as they generally consider no one but the company and shareholders.

We are not going to find a consensus on the issue, we shall have to agree to disagree.

[Prakanong]

Seems there is two schools of thought, one that believes they have the right to charge what they want and get paid for it as they buillt the airport........

and others who believe monopolies should only be allowed to operate for a set number of years as they generally consider no one but the company and shareholders.

We are not going to find a consensus on the issue, we shall have to agree to disagree.

I agree you are probably not going to get consensus on this issue - its probably comlicated as when someone gets a concession its usually limited in time ie build a road bridge and you get a concession to operate it for so many years in a PPP

Thing is though BKA did not apply or need to get a time limited concession and of couse they want to continue to have the monolpoly and gain "Extraordinary" profits - its the rational economic action for them.

As for ticket prices - I thought they were set by the govt - is this not the case or is it just for TG domestically?

[highdiver]

Alright, let's take this argument to its absurd conclusion. Do all of you waving the flag for BKA think that they should have an absolute and irrevocable monopoly forever? Can you envision 20 years on, and they are still the only carrier flying to Samui controlling the only airport? Is that what serves the interests of all best?

Monopolies make decisions that maximize their own profits. Nothing wrong with this as long as they can get away with it. There will be a point where it has to stop. Period.

chintee I beg to differ and suport what Gator was saying before.

BKA has a monopoly in its own airport. it does not have a monopoly on Samui.

Samui is not a private island as such the air transport has to be addressed by the goverment who have allready agreed to have a public airport in Samui. however untill today not private nore AOT have come to even start designing one.

As per your question the answer is YES.

if BKA were given goverment land to devlop an airport as the govermant does not have money then you are right and in such cases the govermnent can determine a period of so and so yers for the consession.

but this is clearly not the case. BKA has aquired private lands for good money and they own the land privately. they then applied to build a private airport to service BKA planes. they were granted the permit and even allowed to charge airport tax above the flight ticket to cover the investment of the airport.

the Samui airport is a misleading name... it should have been called BKA private ar fild Koh Samui and then there were no arguments.

your sugestion is like sugesting that if you buy land and the govermant allows you to build a business on your land it should be for a limited set time.. you as a buisness man can understand that the goverment must respect your private property.

[chinthee]

highdiver, I'm absolutely an unashamed free-trade, pro-business advocate. However, the issue here is that there are some things that must fall in the public domain for regulation, and usually airports, and public transport in general end up in that category. I'm not faulting BKA for squeezing every baht they can out of this. That's good old capitalism at work.

I do see your argument that as no concession was granted it is simply a private company operating on their own land. Does this mean that the air traffic controllers, and everything at the airport is owned and controlled by BKA? If so, I guess I agree with you, that if the government wants to build their own airport they are free to do so, and at that point the monopoly ends, and that would be the only way BKA would face competition. However, governments end up "taking" private property in these types of situations all the time.

I'm curious to watch how high the fares will go as I expect BKA to push the envelope to determine where the price elasticity is.

[highdiver]

highdiver, I'm absolutely an unashamed free-trade, pro-business advocate. However, the issue here is that there are some things that must fall in the public domain for regulation, and usually airports, and public transport in general end up in that category. I'm not faulting BKA for squeezing every baht they can out of this. That's good old capitalism at work.

I do see your argument that as no concession was granted it is simply a private company operating on their own land. Does this mean that the air traffic controllers, and everything at the airport is owned and controlled by BKA? If so, I guess I agree with you, that if the government wants to build their own airport they are free to do so, and at that point the monopoly ends, and that would be the only way BKA would face competition. However, governments end up "taking" private property in these types of situations all the time.

I'm curious to watch how high the fares will go as I expect BKA to push the envelope to determine where the price elasticity is.

i am glad to see you now have the whole picture

just o complete... BKA aiport is totlay done by BKA including runway maintence, airtrafic controler, landing systems, and even the emergency and fire units are all employees of BKA. the only goverment officials are the imigration on the international routes.

As you said if the goverment wishes to buid an aiport they are free to do so.

As for prices... I agree with you.. they will push the envelope untill they get the higest possible rate.

[John 1]

The air traffic controllers are not Bkk Airways staff, this is done by Aero Thai.

[Prakanong]

The air traffic controllers are not Bkk Airways staff, this is done by Aero Thai.

And if a second airport was built what would happen then - surely it would have to be one air traffic controller group doing it?

[Samuian]

... it does not have a monopoly on Samui.

Samui is not a private island

...certainly YES!

I wonder what would happen if access to Bkk-Airport, to CNX, to U-Tapao, to Puket etc. would be denied, because of the cirumstances regarding landing fees and concessions for samui by other (competing) airlines?

BKA has aquired private lands for good money and they own the land privately. they then applied to build a private airport to service BKA planes.

Well, if there wouldn't be this tiny but... what was there, @the Airport BEFORE it became "private grounds" of the then just newly founded "BKA Airport"? and why this particular route was - for quite some time, the only route being serviced by BKA?

What was the background of the CEO's ? Who where the initial founders, where was their career originally rooted?

After all, I still think that it is absolutely not fair to take advantage of this situation in the way it is done! It hurts the tourism and hospitality-Industry - while this Company is making Top-Bucks!

It is about high-time that this situation is changed!

Why to build a new one?

What would be the cost and the impact on samuis environment be?

Why didn't get Tesco/Lotus an absolut monopoly?

Edited September 11, 2007 by Samuian

[womble]

The air traffic controllers are not Bkk Airways staff, this is done by Aero Thai.

Customs officials are also not bkk airways staff.

[Mark Wolfe]

I don't know what the circumstances were when the airport on Samui was opened in 1989, but clearly the situation needs to be addressed.

Eminent domain (compulsory purchase) needs to be applied here, I believe.

I am surprised that the business owners haven't been screaming bloody murder (have they? Is any real action being taken?) about this. Perhaps they need to be hit in the pocketbook harder for them to stir.

The reason that the tourist numbers are falling (and they are in Lamai for sure) isn't only because of the ridiculously high airfares to Samui, but they certainly are significant.

[BlackWolf]

Sorry to interupt, but I recon this topic started with Samui has been votet down from 6. to 14. place as the best tourist island in the world. But this had ended up with a discussion for or against BKA. It seem to me somebody is more interested in their opinion in this matter instead of come up with some ideas why Samui as been votet down and also have some new ideas what can be done to increas to be top of the pop.

[ClaudeFeller]

Why voted down?

Look at trip-advisor or others similar web-projects. Samui has nothing special in the middle-class-range - overpriced and bad service by lazy, low paid and unskilled stuff (main problem for Thailand).

The 5-stars-resorts here have a very good reputation, but that is not the big market.

BTW, Thai Air will start a closer business relationship with BKK Air, ex. mileages won on a Thai-Air-BKK Air ticket can be used for Star-Alliance benefits. Maybe this will reduce the price to come here. Of course it will not touch the quality of the island itself.

[keepsamuiclean]

Thinking that it is already too late to become "top of the pop". Even if NOW the construction rules were kept we have too many big buildings on Samui which often are also too close to the next plot. In lots of hotel/island reviews the ongoing constructions are a big minus; sitting in a nice 4 star resort and on both sides of it is construction work is not too pleasant. Access to the beaches is difficult if not passing through resorts. There should be more public paths between resorts. We have too many cars etc. on the road as the development of a public transportation system has been neglected.

I decided not to put high season rates for July/August 2008 and offer now low season rates from mid of April till mid of December. Phuket had a very good low season, Samui a quite bad high season so that this might be an idea to compete better with Phuket.

[BlackWolf]

Why voted down?

Look at trip-advisor or others similar web-projects. Samui has nothing special in the middle-class-range - overpriced and bad service by lazy, low paid and unskilled stuff (main problem for Thailand).

The 5-stars-resorts here have a very good reputation, but that is not the big market.

BTW, Thai Air will start a closer business relationship with BKK Air, ex. mileages won on a Thai-Air-BKK Air ticket can be used for Star-Alliance benefits. Maybe this will reduce the price to come here. Of course it will not touch the quality of the island itself.

[BlackWolf]

I belive quality is the main word, not quantity. I visited Samui first time 6 years ago, and what I have seen up til now is a large increase in resorts, construction, people, cars,trucks, pollution 7/11 and Family Marts. But is this really a benifit for people who livs her or for tourists. It may be a benifit for rich people who invests money and only seek to make more of it. I belive to have read that samui accomulate about 20 bil. bath a year. These money goes to Bangkok who gives a share to Surrathani who again givs peanuts back to Samui. As long as the TAT the goverment and the authoriatives at Samui do nothing about this, and instead canalises more money to Samui the island will loose a lot more tourists in the future.....

[LaoPo]

Why didn't get Tesco/Lotus an absolute monopoly?

Not enough space for a plane to land...?

LaoPo

[suegha]

Why didn't get Tesco/Lotus an absolute monopoly?

Not enough space for a plane to land...?

LaoPo

Funny!

[keepsamuiclean]

Took some recent quotes out of tripadvisor Koh Samui hotel reviews. Guessing we can take these few as indicators WHY Samui dropped:

I am not sure if I would stay at this hotel again. Perhaps if the prices were reduced by half and if I decided I needed to come to Koh Samui again (which is doubtful, probably my least favorite place of the entire vacation). 11.9.07

Obviously with the restaurant being predominantly open air the risk of rain is ever present. When this risk did present its self we were rushed inside so as not to disturb the delicate flavours of our illustrations of God knows what we were eating. Fine my girlfriend and I thought. Only for it not to rain at all and instead of our table being offered back to us the useless maîtred’ offered the table to another couple and left us inside. This is just dreadful service and quite insulting.

7.9.07

By the way... there appears to be a few resorts under construction along this beach so it's hard to say how much longer this area will be "quiet" 5.9.07

Beautiful, quiet, clean beach (hard to find in Koh Samui these days). 1.9.07

Unfortunately, I haven't anything too nice to say about Chaweng itself. 31.8.07

the location of this resort is great, because it is away from the busiest part of town, therefore it is not too noisy at night.

31.8.07

Too bad they don't clean the beach once in a while for broken glass. 31.8.07

[Mark Wolfe]

why Samui as been votet down

Indeed.

And whoever has this list, where are the places that moved up? What did they do to "improve"?

[keepsamuiclean]

Mark Wolfe - this thread started with "this list" - but no indications what other islands DID to improve. It is a customers voting as said in a "luxury travel bible". Samui has to find the way - for some years the luxury travel against backpackers got promoted. It failed; who likes to pay 650 US$ per night incl. breakfast and get bothered with a bill for each egg they had for breakfast? Samui should be promoted to normal people with some money in their pockets and some brain as well as love for nature. And nature we still have; going into the jungle is a relief - there is still nature.

The ongoing constructions should be monitored closely and if necessary stopped, new constructions should be not permitted when they are against building laws - what we seem to have.