Rugby Rules And Strategy

[lordofdelusion]

U.S. ex-pat here. I have been watching and enjoying the Rugby action in an attempt to broaden my sports horizons. Beats soccer all to hel_l but that is a different thread.

I've read the rules online and had an English friend give me a little primer. Could someone explain to me:

why, if the ball must be released immediately, and the tackler release immediately upon hitting the ground, is there need of a ruck? Can't someone just pick up the ball and take off?

why isn't the drop kick used more often?

after a mishandle, it is only the player that dropped the ball that can recover ? if someone touches it from the other team is it then again live?

Why do Australia and New Zealand seem to be from another planet than the rest of the teams?

Serious questions, not trolling. Just want to enhance my enjoyment of the action.

Cheers!

[Donnyboy]

U.S. ex-pat here. I have been watching and enjoying the Rugby action in an attempt to broaden my sports horizons. Beats soccer all to hel_l but that is a different thread.

I've read the rules online and had an English friend give me a little primer. Could someone explain to me:

will try to the best of my knowledge, but there many rules to the game.

why, if the ball must be released immediately, and the tackler release immediately upon hitting the ground, is there need of a ruck? Can't someone just pick up the ball and take off?

usually when the tackler and ball carrier hit the ground the ball is buried amongst them, so its hard for any other players to pick the ball up, hence the ruck is formed and the tackler must try and move away from the area and not play or kill the ball. Also the ball carrier must release the ball so it can be played.

If the ball is played back by the ball carrier, by all means any player coming from an onside position can pick up the ball and run.

why isn't the drop kick used more often?

I guess it depends on the situation. If a team is on attack and there seems unlikely theyre making any opprortunities to score a try, and they are within range, a drop goal would be desirable. However, if a team on attack keeps making ground and string many phases of rucks together and a try looks likely, the better option would be to attempt a try instead, as it is worth more plus the chance to convert an extra 2 points.

In tighter games you will probably see the drop goal used more I would imagine, esp towards the end of the game.

after a mishandle, it is only the player that dropped the ball that can recover ? if someone touches it from the other team is it then again live?

mishandle? you mean knock-on or knock forward? Yes.

If a player knocks on, the referee may play advantage to the opposing side, if they get the ball- and thus it is still live.

If no advantage is gained, the ref will call them for a scrum with the opposing team getting the put in.

Why do Australia and New Zealand seem to be from another planet than the rest of the teams? I guess its a mixture of things,the blend of players that we have and being our national sport. The South Africans play well too. And I think its Wales national sport, but theyre not so good.

Serious questions, not trolling. Just want to enhance my enjoyment of the action.No worries, hopefully, you can pick up more when watching the games and listen in to what the referee says, and become a big rugby fan like me!

Cheers!

[Donnyboy]

you can find more rules here

[lordofdelusion]

you can find more rules here

Thanks for your replys. I think I'm getting the hang of it.

[miltonbentley]

Welcome to rugby Lordofdelusion - best sport in the world.

As Donnyboy has said there are many rules, some of which are very technical. Even people familiar wit the game don't know them all and there are often small changes and modifications. Also different referees interpret some rules differently or put different emphasis on things particularly in the scrum and other contact areas.

The more you watch the more you will pick things up and soon you will screaming at referees that there are hands in the ruck with the rest of us.

Enjoy

[Pink Mist]

hands in the ruck is a kiwi specialty

[miltonbentley]

hands in the ruck is a kiwi specialty

Yes for a team that expresses a belief in free flowing, quick rugby they sure do their best to slow things up

[lordofdelusion]

hands in the ruck is a kiwi specialty

Yes for a team that expresses a belief in free flowing, quick rugby they sure do their best to slow things up

OK experts. Definition please????? Hands in the ruck? Doesn't sound good whatever.

[calibanjr.]

Watching a pretty rugged Wales/Canada game right now.

Wish the American team was more fun to watch, but all our NFL linebackers (which the large portion of rugby players look like size, toughness, and skill-wise) are busy (and not used to 80 minutes on the field).

Edited September 9, 2007 by calibanjr.

[calibanjr.]

Canada 17 Wales 16, 56th minute, great game

[Pink Mist]

hands in the ruck is a kiwi specialty

Yes for a team that expresses a belief in free flowing, quick rugby they sure do their best to slow things up

OK experts. Definition please????? Hands in the ruck? Doesn't sound good whatever.

it means they are raking with their hands instead of a foot, the kiwis are masters of doing this and other infractions and hiding them from the referee

[track61]

Here's one more American sold on rugby. I have really enjoyed 3 of the last 4 world cups. I even made 5000 baht the year So. Africa won. Was working in the U.S. during the last one and the only TV feed I could get was "private" to like sports bars and

[Donnyboy]

hands in the ruck is a kiwi specialty

Yes for a team that expresses a belief in free flowing, quick rugby they sure do their best to slow things up

OK experts. Definition please????? Hands in the ruck? Doesn't sound good whatever.

it means they are raking with their hands instead of a foot, the kiwis are masters of doing this and other infractions and hiding them from the referee

McCaw is the master at the breakdown & many believe he is cheating, but he gets there quick and wins the ball fairly imo

[track61]

I don't know why my whole post didn't make it but:

Here's one more American sold on rugby. I have really enjoyed 3 of the last 4 world cups. I even made 5000 baht the year So. Africa won. Was working in the U.S. during the last one and the only TV feed I could get was "private" to like sports bars and cost 5 thousand US, so missed it. Did watch 2 day delay re-runs on some obscure channel and since no US stations covered the cup, it was like live for me. I played American football from 6 years old to 21 and wish I would have had rugby available. It is a much more athletic game and as little as I know of it I can see where the stratagies and requied skills are very similar. I have had some problems with grasping the rules because even when watching with knowledgable fans they can't explain some things, which now I understand may have been a nuance of some particular ref. What a great addition that adds to any game, for fan participation at least, right? There is not a doubt in my mind if this game was promoted, financed, and presented properly to the American sports fan it would be embraced. Remember, I say this as an American football fan, rugby is more exciting, faster, tougher, and more artistic. I will always love American football but I have plenty of room for Rugby. A great game, they only negative thing I can say about it is that I found myself rooting for France once.

This year I've decided I will root for Wales, just because of the above comment. Look forward to it.

[Pink Mist]

hands in the ruck is a kiwi specialty

Yes for a team that expresses a belief in free flowing, quick rugby they sure do their best to slow things up

OK experts. Definition please????? Hands in the ruck? Doesn't sound good whatever.

it means they are raking with their hands instead of a foot, the kiwis are masters of doing this and other infractions and hiding them from the referee

McCaw is the master at the breakdown & many believe he is cheating, but he gets there quick and wins the ball fairly imo

donny your nose is growing :D

[Donnyboy]

hands in the ruck is a kiwi specialty

Yes for a team that expresses a belief in free flowing, quick rugby they sure do their best to slow things up

OK experts. Definition please????? Hands in the ruck? Doesn't sound good whatever.

it means they are raking with their hands instead of a foot, the kiwis are masters of doing this and other infractions and hiding them from the referee

McCaw is the master at the breakdown & many believe he is cheating, but he gets there quick and wins the ball fairly imo

donny your nose is growing

maybe he does push the law abit but no more than Burger or George Smith

[Pink Mist]

hands in the ruck is a kiwi specialty

Yes for a team that expresses a belief in free flowing, quick rugby they sure do their best to slow things up

OK experts. Definition please????? Hands in the ruck? Doesn't sound good whatever.

it means they are raking with their hands instead of a foot, the kiwis are masters of doing this and other infractions and hiding them from the referee

McCaw is the master at the breakdown & many believe he is cheating, but he gets there quick and wins the ball fairly imo

donny your nose is growing

maybe he does push the law abit but no more than Burger or George Smith

george is as honest as the day is long

[lordofdelusion]

I don't know why my whole post didn't make it but:

Here's one more American sold on rugby. I have really enjoyed 3 of the last 4 world cups. I even made 5000 baht the year So. Africa won. Was working in the U.S. during the last one and the only TV feed I could get was "private" to like sports bars and cost 5 thousand US, so missed it. Did watch 2 day delay re-runs on some obscure channel and since no US stations covered the cup, it was like live for me. I played American football from 6 years old to 21 and wish I would have had rugby available. It is a much more athletic game and as little as I know of it I can see where the stratagies and requied skills are very similar. I have had some problems with grasping the rules because even when watching with knowledgable fans they can't explain some things, which now I understand may have been a nuance of some particular ref. What a great addition that adds to any game, for fan participation at least, right? There is not a doubt in my mind if this game was promoted, financed, and presented properly to the American sports fan it would be embraced. Remember, I say this as an American football fan, rugby is more exciting, faster, tougher, and more artistic. I will always love American football but I have plenty of room for Rugby. A great game, they only negative thing I can say about it is that I found myself rooting for France once.

This year I've decided I will root for Wales, just because of the above comment. Look forward to it.

FRANCE!!??? You are no American. Come on, where are you from really?

I'm enjoying this action myself but nothing new will get a foothold in the US. HUGE, HUGE amounts of money are involved in the big 3 along with all the fantasy sports. I love ice hockey too but that even suffers in attendence in many markets. The UFC is the only thing that has come along in the last 15 years to gain attention and that took away from boxing.

[miltonbentley]

george is as honest as the day is long

In Finland in winter

Edited September 9, 2007 by miltonbentley

[Donnyboy]

I don't know why my whole post didn't make it but:

Here's one more American sold on rugby. I have really enjoyed 3 of the last 4 world cups. I even made 5000 baht the year So. Africa won. Was working in the U.S. during the last one and the only TV feed I could get was "private" to like sports bars and cost 5 thousand US, so missed it. Did watch 2 day delay re-runs on some obscure channel and since no US stations covered the cup, it was like live for me. I played American football from 6 years old to 21 and wish I would have had rugby available. It is a much more athletic game and as little as I know of it I can see where the stratagies and requied skills are very similar. I have had some problems with grasping the rules because even when watching with knowledgable fans they can't explain some things, which now I understand may have been a nuance of some particular ref. What a great addition that adds to any game, for fan participation at least, right? There is not a doubt in my mind if this game was promoted, financed, and presented properly to the American sports fan it would be embraced. Remember, I say this as an American football fan, rugby is more exciting, faster, tougher, and more artistic. I will always love American football but I have plenty of room for Rugby. A great game, they only negative thing I can say about it is that I found myself rooting for France once.

This year I've decided I will root for Wales, just because of the above comment. Look forward to it.

FRANCE!!??? You are no American. Come on, where are you from really?

I'm enjoying this action myself but nothing new will get a foothold in the US. HUGE, HUGE amounts of money are involved in the big 3 along with all the fantasy sports. I love ice hockey too but that even suffers in attendence in many markets. The UFC is the only thing that has come along in the last 15 years to gain attention and that took away from boxing.

is American Idol a sport there?

[Donnyboy]

george is as honest as the day is long

In Finland in winter

[EdgeCarver]

U.S. ex-pat here. I have been watching and enjoying the Rugby action in an attempt to broaden my sports horizons. Beats soccer all to hel_l but that is a different thread.

I've read the rules online and had an English friend give me a little primer. Could someone explain to me:

why, if the ball must be released immediately, and the tackler release immediately upon hitting the ground, is there need of a ruck? Can't someone just pick up the ball and take off?

why isn't the drop kick used more often?

after a mishandle, it is only the player that dropped the ball that can recover ? if someone touches it from the other team is it then again live?

Why do Australia and New Zealand seem to be from another planet than the rest of the teams?

Serious questions, not trolling. Just want to enhance my enjoyment of the action.

Cheers!

Here's a useful article from The Times last week:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rug...icle2409879.ece

It's about Nigel Melville., former England scrum half now CEO of Rugby USA.

In a previous article that I can't find he is quoted as saying that only 5% of collegiate football players make the professional draft. That leaves 95% available for Rugby, if only an effective professional set-up can be created. The International Rugby Board is putting a lot of money into the USA to achieve that and in the hope that TV will offer some coverage that will encourage the take-up of the sport.

After seeing the Eagles against England I'm very positive about the future of the game in the US.

[lordofdelusion]

U.S. ex-pat here. I have been watching and enjoying the Rugby action in an attempt to broaden my sports horizons. Beats soccer all to hel_l but that is a different thread.

I've read the rules online and had an English friend give me a little primer. Could someone explain to me:

why, if the ball must be released immediately, and the tackler release immediately upon hitting the ground, is there need of a ruck? Can't someone just pick up the ball and take off?

why isn't the drop kick used more often?

after a mishandle, it is only the player that dropped the ball that can recover ? if someone touches it from the other team is it then again live?

Why do Australia and New Zealand seem to be from another planet than the rest of the teams?

Serious questions, not trolling. Just want to enhance my enjoyment of the action.

Cheers!

Here's a useful article from The Times last week:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rug...icle2409879.ece

It's about Nigel Melville., former England scrum half now CEO of Rugby USA.

In a previous article that I can't find he is quoted as saying that only 5% of collegiate football players make the professional draft. That leaves 95% available for Rugby, if only an effective professional set-up can be created. The International Rugby Board is putting a lot of money into the USA to achieve that and in the hope that TV will offer some coverage that will encourage the take-up of the sport.

After seeing the Eagles against England I'm very positive about the future of the game in the US.

Good info. Yes, there are many football programs across the US. It's in the hundreds when you include the small colleges as well as division 1A. Plenty of bodies but the key is exposure. TV coverage with a lot of education and info about the game would be needed. Still a long hard road to gain a market share. If only there was a forward pass in Rugby!!

[TokyoT]

The one thing I cannot seem to pin down is the rule(s) regarding play for the ball after the tackle. I know the player that has been tackled is suppose to release the ball and I understand calls related to the team in possession “holding” on to the ball or not releasing the ball. What I don’t full grasp are the rules regarding the opposing teams options after the tackle in regard to attempting to gain possession of the ball after the tackle has been made?

Many times the ball just lies there behind the ruck while the team with possession decides what they will do next?

Or even inside the ruck what can the opposing teams do inside the ruck (while the ball is still inside the ruck) to attempt to gain possession of the ball? Many times it seems like the opposition makes it too easy for the player that has been tackled to release the ball back towards his own players.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

As for the Eagles / England game – certainly a better showing by the Eagles than excepted but hard to say if the Eagles have really stepped up their game or if England just played that bad. England challenged line-out after line-out and pretty much controlled every scrum. IMHO the biggest up side for the Eagles was that things did not seem to deteriorate as the game wore on.

Compare that to the Canada/ Wales game; Canada gave Wales everything they could take for the first 50/60 min. After Canada scored that try after opening the second half it looked like they might actually have a shot. But as the game wore on Wales pulled away, and away, and away.

[miltonbentley]

The one thing I cannot seem to pin down is the rule(s) regarding play for the ball after the tackle. I know the player that has been tackled is suppose to release the ball and I understand calls related to the team in possession “holding” on to the ball or not releasing the ball. What I don’t full grasp are the rules regarding the opposing teams options after the tackle in regard to attempting to gain possession of the ball after the tackle has been made?

Many times the ball just lies there behind the ruck while the team with possession decides what they will do next?

Or even inside the ruck what can the opposing teams do inside the ruck (while the ball is still inside the ruck) to attempt to gain possession of the ball? Many times it seems like the opposition makes it too easy for the player that has been tackled to release the ball back towards his own players.

Anyone care to enlighten me? Once the ruck is formed and the ball released sitting on the ground the defending team can go for the ball but have to go through the ruck, they cannot go from the side. This is very difficult as there are normally 2 or 3 hulking great big opposing forwards in the way. It rarely happens against 2 well matched side although it did appear to happen in the Samoa game for their disallowed try. I am still at a loss as to why that try was not awarded and the TV coverage has been appalling with regard to replays and an explanation from the commentators, which does not help people trying to learn the game

As for the Eagles / England game – certainly a better showing by the Eagles than excepted but hard to say if the Eagles have really stepped up their game or if England just played that bad. England challenged line-out after line-out and pretty much controlled every scrum. IMHO the biggest up side for the Eagles was that things did not seem to deteriorate as the game wore on.

Compare that to the Canada/ Wales game; Canada gave Wales everything they could take for the first 50/60 min. After Canada scored that try after opening the second half it looked like they might actually have a shot. But as the game wore on Wales pulled away, and away, and away.

[lordofdelusion]

The one thing I cannot seem to pin down is the rule(s) regarding play for the ball after the tackle. I know the player that has been tackled is suppose to release the ball and I understand calls related to the team in possession “holding” on to the ball or not releasing the ball. What I don’t full grasp are the rules regarding the opposing teams options after the tackle in regard to attempting to gain possession of the ball after the tackle has been made?

Many times the ball just lies there behind the ruck while the team with possession decides what they will do next?

Or even inside the ruck what can the opposing teams do inside the ruck (while the ball is still inside the ruck) to attempt to gain possession of the ball? Many times it seems like the opposition makes it too easy for the player that has been tackled to release the ball back towards his own players.

Anyone care to enlighten me? Once the ruck is formed and the ball released sitting on the ground the defending team can go for the ball but have to go through the ruck, they cannot go from the side. This is very difficult as there are normally 2 or 3 hulking great big opposing forwards in the way. It rarely happens against 2 well matched side although it did appear to happen in the Samoa game for their disallowed try. I am still at a loss as to why that try was not awarded and the TV coverage has been appalling with regard to replays and an explanation from the commentators, which does not help people trying to learn the game

OK, how about before a ruck is formed.. can anyone pick up a released ball? What about trailing players, those left behind after a long run for instance. Can they enter the play from behind?

I agree about the coverage. The commentators are like 2 guys just sitting in the stands chating with each other.

As for the Eagles / England game – certainly a better showing by the Eagles than excepted but hard to say if the Eagles have really stepped up their game or if England just played that bad. England challenged line-out after line-out and pretty much controlled every scrum. IMHO the biggest up side for the Eagles was that things did not seem to deteriorate as the game wore on.

Compare that to the Canada/ Wales game; Canada gave Wales everything they could take for the first 50/60 min. After Canada scored that try after opening the second half it looked like they might actually have a shot. But as the game wore on Wales pulled away, and away, and away.

[Pink Mist]

the poms played ordinary rugby as the defending world champs and the yanks played inspired rugby as an emerging rugby team

well done yanks and goodbye world cup to the poms

[steveromagnino]

The one thing I cannot seem to pin down is the rule(s) regarding play for the ball after the tackle. I know the player that has been tackled is suppose to release the ball and I understand calls related to the team in possession “holding” on to the ball or not releasing the ball. What I don’t full grasp are the rules regarding the opposing teams options after the tackle in regard to attempting to gain possession of the ball after the tackle has been made?

Many times the ball just lies there behind the ruck while the team with possession decides what they will do next?

Or even inside the ruck what can the opposing teams do inside the ruck (while the ball is still inside the ruck) to attempt to gain possession of the ball? Many times it seems like the opposition makes it too easy for the player that has been tackled to release the ball back towards his own players.

First up, when the player with the ball goes to ground in a tackle, then he must release the ball; the only person allowed to directly take it is the tackling player IF he is still on his feet. Macaw and other Kiwis are pretty decent at tackling, rolling the guy over and then staying on their feet to strip the ball.

As soon as another player comes in (I think) or if both players go to ground, then a maul/ruck occurs. At this time, each additional player coming in most enter behind the hind most feet of their own players, so you cannot come in from the side. Players in the ruck/maul on the ground must not handle the ball or hold the ball, but must release it; using some generous foot technique including spurs into people's faces, the ball is then controlled to the players on their feet at the back of the ruck, and can be played from there.

The aim of tackling a player is to either take him down and strip the ball yourself, or to tackle him preferably in a field position and at a speed that enables you to roll him onto your side of the ruck as your supporting players come over to hold the ruck and the ball on their side. Another alternative is to punish him by ensuring he cannot release the ball at all, and the team with possession going in then gives it up - a use it or lose it situation. As the player tackled, you want to do the opposite, so may try to slow down the release a little to give your own guys a chance to roll the ruck back the other way and to go to ground in control in a good position to release the ball on your own side of the ruck.

When the ball is still in the ruck (in front of the hindmost feet I think is the test, and still on the ground) then the opposition cannot come around the sides as it is still in the ruck rather than in open play; the halfback or number 8 will usually carefully consider options; pass, run or kick - they may throw some fakes as well but are conscious that if they can hold position of the ruck with fewer players, then that leaves an overlap somewhere. If the defense of the other team are very flat, then kick behind, if the defense are leaving holes then pass to that side, if the defense are sitting deep, then send the ball in a pass to a hard runner like Jerry Collins who can use the battering ram approach and gain yards. As soon as the ball comes out, the side can come forward; the wrong choice can leave the ball carrier stationary with big guys running onto him close to the ruck, and then they are in all kinds of trouble; rugby as it is now is a game of possession and momentum; if you start getting pushed back, it is very tough to stop the rot, as you have to keep running further back them coming forward again.

If the team without possession sees that the numbers in the ruck are short, then putting a big push on can sometimes get a turn over. But most of the ruck technique between decent teams (i.e. Aussie, Kiwi, SA, Irish possibly) involves the initial tackle, speed of the defenders/attackers to get to the breakdown and then a choice of options from the side with possession; mistakes here cause turnovers.

No idea what you are talkin' about Bronco, there was never a Kiwi to say a wrong word or commit the slightest infraction. Since the glory days of Fitzpatrick and Loe to now, all Kiwis are just good honest players. Especially the half of the team coming courtesy of the pacific islands

Not sure why USA are not so hot at rugby but they played their hearts out against UK for sure. They have the numbers, but my mates who played over there reckoned that the ferocity isn't there compared to the typical rugger game in NZ; in the words of Kiwi icon Jake the Muss, too many weights, not enough speed work.

[miltonbentley]

Good explanation steveromagnino

[Donnyboy]

Good explanation steveromagnino

yip clear as mud