No Accountability

[teejay]

I've always had an issue with the lack of accountability here in LOS. The roots of the problem may lay within the structure of the education system, culture, or any variety of factors... an analysis of that, however, is not the purpose of this post.

I'm posting because I'm a bit ticked about the lack of accountability in a particular situation that has occurred over the past few months:

Long story short - I like cars. I have many and I particularly like SAABs. I found myself a 3-door classic and decided to restore it to day 1 condition.

Restoration involved copying the bodykit also to fit a 4-door classic that i have as well. For this job, I went to a particular guy who has previously added a 100K body kit and re-spray on another of my SAABs.

He recommended his brother's paint shop (which was used in the first restoration) and I agreed. The copies of the kits came out ok, and with some fitting, they worked out. The guy does these cars for me more as a favor and as a side-job for him because he likes SAABs as well. He can copy Honda Civic parts all day long and put em on cars in 1 hour for a 10K profit 100x before he can get a SAAB right, it's just that tough. But he accepeted the job.

After some time, 4 months or so, I get both of my cars back, one with the copied bodykit. There were things wrong and he accepts full responsibility and fixes to his best ability.

My main car came back from the paint shop (full body re-spray from red to black, aka change of color). It was terrible. Red shows (which means they didn't sand to the metal, and just sprayed over), and it just looks awful.

I call up my guy and he knows it's bad, because when he dropped it off he noticed some problems, but upon more intense inspection I found it just to be heinous.

Meanwhile, lots of other details and problems with the leather restoration, etc.

In the end, I tell my guy that I'm not paying for the re-spray. (they also cracked my windshield top to bottom when painting, 20k baht from SAAB). He says he understands and says that I should talk to the painter himself to sort it out. The painter calls me, angry while I'm being perfectly polite, and in the end he basically said, "if you're not going to pay, why should i come see it." ( I had requested to have him come see the car so I could point out to him how bad it really was, although my mechanic at SAAB said there is no way the guy would come because he already knows how bad the job is).

My response to the "why should i come see it?" was that he needs to come see the car so he can avoid doing a shitty job in the future for other customers-to-be. If it was him, or another worker in the shop, somebody needs to be held accountable for the mistakes. It doesn't have anything to do with the money, it's the concept of responsibility and accountability of a shop owner to know exactly what is wrong and how it should be fixed so as to not to be a continuing problem.

That conversation was going nowhere, so he just hung up and I called my guy that was over-seeing my restoration. He accepted that he was accountable for the job indirectly by sending my car to the particular paint shop (his cousin's). This guy is a completely stand-up guy and offered to return my money for all that I had done (new body kit, new leather seats, respray, broken window, etc.). Essentially, I would pay nothing. (Actually, he didn't offer to return my money per se, because I haven't paid it yet, but he accepted my non-payment because nothing came out as I ordered it). It was a shame that he was caught in the middle of the bad paint shop guy who had no accountability whatsoever and the customer (me). However, I was impressed at how much of a stand-up guy he was. Very very very very few people in Thailand would do what he did, essentially not charging me for over 100k worth of work.

The problem is, that here in LOS, the stand-up guys are very few and far between, ESPECIALLY in the car business. Almost all of the time, once they've taken your money, that's it. Any problems and they pretend as if they don't even know you. The lack of accountability goes way deeper and spreads far and wide throughout the country, from food services to travel services.... I've had so many situations where "i don't know" was the only answer somebody could give me for a problem. That doesn't cut it for a country which is trying to progress out of the Third World.

Long post, I'm sorry. Just peeved and wanted to get it off my chest.... but lack of accountability is a very real problem in Thailand, and it needs to be addressed before Thailand is to become a true World City.

[Jing-jo]

Hey TeeJay

what would be good is if you post the guy who done good details on here so you can kinda reward him with more business and maybe (not sure if forum would allow this name the shirker who did the crap paint job so he loses work.

then when he sees his cousin doing well then maybe it will sink in

or am I being naive given that TIT ?

[Johpa]

The problem is, that here in LOS, the stand-up guys are very few and far between, ESPECIALLY in the car business. Almost all of the time, once they've taken your money, that's it. Any problems and they pretend as if they don't even know you. The lack of accountability goes way deeper and spreads far and wide throughout the country, from food services to travel services.... I've had so many situations where "i don't know" was the only answer somebody could give me for a problem. That doesn't cut it for a country which is trying to progress out of the Third World.

Long post, I'm sorry. Just peeved and wanted to get it off my chest.... but lack of accountability is a very real problem in Thailand, and it needs to be addressed before Thailand is to become a true World City.

I don't know about your experience elsewhere, but it took me decades to find a "stand-up" auto shop here in the US. I believe that auto shops rate number one in customer complaints in my home country. At least they did not take your money. But this particular matter is not something with which to judge Thailand. Not that Thais are quick to accept responsibility when things go wrong, it being a loss of face, but auto shop screwups and bad work are just too common to be noteworthy.

Besides, there has long been a trend in the corporate world to avoid individual responsibility by having all projects become "team" projects where nobody takes responsibility when things get fubared. Such corporate think (also known as idiot think) has even found its way into our school systems in the US where team projects are emphasized at the request of the corporations.

[Solosiam]

I've always had an issue with the lack of accountability here in LOS. The roots of the problem may lay within the structure of the education system, culture, or any variety of factors... an analysis of that, however, is not the purpose of this post.

I'm posting because I'm a bit ticked about the lack of accountability in a particular situation that has occurred over the past few months:

Long story short - I like cars. I have many and I particularly like SAABs. I found myself a 3-door classic and decided to restore it to day 1 condition.

Restoration involved copying the bodykit also to fit a 4-door classic that i have as well. For this job, I went to a particular guy who has previously added a 100K body kit and re-spray on another of my SAABs.

He recommended his brother's paint shop (which was used in the first restoration) and I agreed. The copies of the kits came out ok, and with some fitting, they worked out. The guy does these cars for me more as a favor and as a side-job for him because he likes SAABs as well. He can copy Honda Civic parts all day long and put em on cars in 1 hour for a 10K profit 100x before he can get a SAAB right, it's just that tough. But he accepeted the job.

After some time, 4 months or so, I get both of my cars back, one with the copied bodykit. There were things wrong and he accepts full responsibility and fixes to his best ability.

My main car came back from the paint shop (full body re-spray from red to black, aka change of color). It was terrible. Red shows (which means they didn't sand to the metal, and just sprayed over), and it just looks awful.

I call up my guy and he knows it's bad, because when he dropped it off he noticed some problems, but upon more intense inspection I found it just to be heinous.

Meanwhile, lots of other details and problems with the leather restoration, etc.

In the end, I tell my guy that I'm not paying for the re-spray. (they also cracked my windshield top to bottom when painting, 20k baht from SAAB). He says he understands and says that I should talk to the painter himself to sort it out. The painter calls me, angry while I'm being perfectly polite, and in the end he basically said, "if you're not going to pay, why should i come see it." ( I had requested to have him come see the car so I could point out to him how bad it really was, although my mechanic at SAAB said there is no way the guy would come because he already knows how bad the job is).

My response to the "why should i come see it?" was that he needs to come see the car so he can avoid doing a shitty job in the future for other customers-to-be. If it was him, or another worker in the shop, somebody needs to be held accountable for the mistakes. It doesn't have anything to do with the money, it's the concept of responsibility and accountability of a shop owner to know exactly what is wrong and how it should be fixed so as to not to be a continuing problem.

That conversation was going nowhere, so he just hung up and I called my guy that was over-seeing my restoration. He accepted that he was accountable for the job indirectly by sending my car to the particular paint shop (his cousin's). This guy is a completely stand-up guy and offered to return my money for all that I had done (new body kit, new leather seats, respray, broken window, etc.). Essentially, I would pay nothing. (Actually, he didn't offer to return my money per se, because I haven't paid it yet, but he accepted my non-payment because nothing came out as I ordered it). It was a shame that he was caught in the middle of the bad paint shop guy who had no accountability whatsoever and the customer (me). However, I was impressed at how much of a stand-up guy he was. Very very very very few people in Thailand would do what he did, essentially not charging me for over 100k worth of work.

The problem is, that here in LOS, the stand-up guys are very few and far between, ESPECIALLY in the car business. Almost all of the time, once they've taken your money, that's it. Any problems and they pretend as if they don't even know you. The lack of accountability goes way deeper and spreads far and wide throughout the country, from food services to travel services.... I've had so many situations where "i don't know" was the only answer somebody could give me for a problem. That doesn't cut it for a country which is trying to progress out of the Third World.

Long post, I'm sorry. Just peeved and wanted to get it off my chest.... but lack of accountability is a very real problem in Thailand, and it needs to be addressed before Thailand is to become a true World City.

Its because they are driven out of business by paying for others mistakes, obviously you didn't let him pay 100k out of his own pocket for trying his very best to help you, right?

[teejay]

Yes Jing-Jo I suppose I could mention his name and shop since he is really a sincere guy that just got caught in the middle. He always calls me "Khun" even tho we are well-acquainted, he has great manners and is very customer-oriented. However, he does not fix cars, he just does body kits for Hondas, Mazdas, and a few other brands. He also has molds for some Ferarris and Lambos (you didn't think the owners are driving around with their "real" bumpers on, did you? Making a copy and fitting it on allows you to scratch and bash and keep your original part nice and pristine ) His latest customer ordered a 500,000 baht Mazda kit from the Fast and the Furious (Veilside) yet he treats me and my little SAAB kits as he would treat the Veilside kit or a Lambo kit. That's another character trait hard to find, not just in Thailand, but anywhere.

His name is Khun Jim. His shop is Valencia Auto Parts on Ramkamhang 164 (actually right before 164). It's a 5 story building with "Valencia" written on top. Can i post a website here? it's http://www.valencia2005.com/ The first car i did with him is the white saab viggen on the website and it came out very nicely which is why i came to him for the 2nd and 3rd restorations.

It's just the paint shop that is the problem, a problem he's gotta sort out soon, because my SAABs are well known in our little SAAB community and the last one is giving him a bad name. But he is detail-oriented, and doesn't think like a thai (interpret that as you will), so i trust him with my cars. Compounded with the paint shop problem, he just had heart surgery, which is a reason i didn't want to bring up the paint issue with him today, but it came up anyway. I didn't wanna stress him out because his surgery was just a week ago.

The japanese kits he does very well and has many molds from the original kits. Too bad mine just came out terrible, but then again it's the paint shop's fault. I challenge you to find a guy in Thailand that will erase a 100K baht bill because the customer is not satisfied. Stand-up guy.

Just tell him Khun Tom the Saab guy sent you and he will give you a very fair deal. Sorry mods if i broke any rules posting the website, but i think it's fair.

[teejay]

Its because they are driven out of business by paying for others mistakes, obviously you didn't let him pay 100k out of his own pocket for trying his very best to help you, right?

of course not. We came to a fair resolution for his work and effort. Just the fact that he was willing to clear the entire bill was motivation for me to pay him in full. Had he not accepted responsibility, he would not have received a dime. We both knew money wasn't the issue as we're both well-off, but it was the principle of responsibility and accountability, something that he understood and that i greatly appreciate.