What's The Name... Of That "organisation"

[Cyberstar]

Now, that I've sort of "peacefully" have accepted that I've lost a 25,000 Baht fine due to some Thai moron downloading a Thai music mp3 to one of my computers, I'd like to know who to blame before I post a detailed warning to (everyone, regardless of nationality) who runs public computers in Thailand including Chiang Mai. What are they called, those guys enforcing copyrights on Thai music at Karaoke Bars and last (but not least) Internet cafees and free wifi coffee shop computers?

(The 25,000 baht fine took a lot of of sly negotiation on a late Saturday night at the local policestation, by the way. Starting point was 100,000 baht - just because of a few copyrighted Thai music tracks were located on one computer in your public area).

[Donnyboy]

Now, that I've sort of "peacefully" have accepted that I've lost a 25,000 Baht fine due to some Thai moron downloading a Thai music mp3 to one of my computers, I'd like to know who to blame before I post a detailed warning to (everyone, regardless of nationality) who runs public computers in Thailand including Chiang Mai. What are they called, those guys enforcing copyrights on Thai music at Karaoke Bars and last (but not least) Internet cafees and free wifi coffee shop computers?

(The 25,000 baht fine took a lot of of sly negotiation on a late Saturday night at the local policestation, by the way. Starting point was 100,000 baht - just because of a few copyrighted Thai music tracks were located on one computer in your public area).

I think its DIP But I could be wrong. MPA is the DVD equivilant of DIP.

Bad luck Cyber. How did the police know that you had some thai music in your computer? Set up perhaps? At least you managed to get the fine down.

[tigerbeer]

Now, that I've sort of "peacefully" have accepted that I've lost a 25,000 Baht fine due to some Thai moron downloading a Thai music mp3 to one of my computers, I'd like to know who to blame before I post a detailed warning to (everyone, regardless of nationality) who runs public computers in Thailand including Chiang Mai. What are they called, those guys enforcing copyrights on Thai music at Karaoke Bars and last (but not least) Internet cafees and free wifi coffee shop computers?

(The 25,000 baht fine took a lot of of sly negotiation on a late Saturday night at the local policestation, by the way. Starting point was 100,000 baht - just because of a few copyrighted Thai music tracks were located on one computer in your public area).

I think its DIP But I could be wrong. MPA is the DVD equivilant of DIP.

Bad luck Cyber. How did the police know that you had some thai music in your computer? Set up perhaps? At least you managed to get the fine down.

its extremely difficult to deal with this kind of situation. like donnyboy said, a set up? it kinda makes u wonder how secure your router is. although we are dealing with a cybercafe here. sorry to hear of your misfortune cyber.

[TheWalkingMan]

... What are they called, those guys enforcing copyrights on Thai music at Karaoke Bars and last (but not least) Internet cafees and free wifi coffee shop computers?

Try these guys...

1stopmusic.com Download the information leaflet and contact them by phone.

And get some Ghosting Software if you are running an internet shop or have a PC in a public area! Each time someone uses the machine it should be re-booted and any new files (mp3's, etc) added would be deleted per the Ghosting Software settings.

TheWalkingMan

[singa-traz]

Now, that I've sort of "peacefully" have accepted that I've lost a 25,000 Baht fine due to some Thai moron downloading a Thai music mp3 to one of my computers, I'd like to know who to blame before I post a detailed warning to (everyone, regardless of nationality) who runs public computers in Thailand including Chiang Mai. What are they called, those guys enforcing copyrights on Thai music at Karaoke Bars and last (but not least) Internet cafees and free wifi coffee shop computers?

(The 25,000 baht fine took a lot of of sly negotiation on a late Saturday night at the local policestation, by the way. Starting point was 100,000 baht - just because of a few copyrighted Thai music tracks were located on one computer in your public area).

That's sound quite expensive for a few songs.

Wonder how much would it have cost you if they brought you to court.

[Donnyboy]

Now, that I've sort of "peacefully" have accepted that I've lost a 25,000 Baht fine due to some Thai moron downloading a Thai music mp3 to one of my computers, I'd like to know who to blame before I post a detailed warning to (everyone, regardless of nationality) who runs public computers in Thailand including Chiang Mai. What are they called, those guys enforcing copyrights on Thai music at Karaoke Bars and last (but not least) Internet cafees and free wifi coffee shop computers?

(The 25,000 baht fine took a lot of of sly negotiation on a late Saturday night at the local policestation, by the way. Starting point was 100,000 baht - just because of a few copyrighted Thai music tracks were located on one computer in your public area).

That's sound quite expensive for a few songs.

Wonder how much would it have cost you if they brought you to court.

it may have been as much, but the time and effort plus lawyers would also be a hassle.

The Thai authorities come down heavily on piracy on thai IP due to support from the local companies. Thai DVD copies are harder to find than your farang equivilant here.

[Cyberstar]

Thanks for the sympathy... So, Thailand actually has a "Department of Intellectual Property"? - I'm surprised.

Well, a setup is very likely. But I doubt it was a setup done by the police. Besides, I can think of at least one other plausible explanation. It all went like this:

Last Saturday around 9.00 PM eight plain cloth Thais, politely presenting themselves as police entered my shop, politely showing id long enough for me to memorize the number and politely asking for permission to check my computers. The permission was granted of course - had nothing to hide, I thought.

The group consisted of one older, local cop (who just sat down looking bored, not participating at all) and a youngish taskforce of five from Bangkok. The remaining two (also youngish) guys weren't police, but from some "company" which I never found out was of what character. These also just sat down, obviously not part of the taskforce. The two guys in charge of the taskforce, went straight to the one computer, they found stuff on (it was even turned off at that time, but they patiently waited until it was up rather than starting to check the machine next to it).

When I said "downloading a Thai music mp3" I weren't exact. There must have been at least hundred titles, which would have taken too long to download from the web - more likely they were copied from a dvd or multi GB memory stick, and certainly enough for an accusation of organized copying to hold.

My wife recognized the two guys from the "company". They had been in our shop 2 times - about a week earlier and the day before. We don't have that many youngish male Thai customers, so my wife even remembered which computer they sat at. The first time they first sat at one computer then made a switch to the one "infected". The second time - guess where they sat? ... Their story was that they found the music files at their first visit, and since the files still were there a week later, they got the police going.

For all I know, they - themselves - could have "infected" both computers at their first visit. I do have driveimages of each PC in a state, where noone but I have ever touched them, which I restore whenever things seem a bit messed up, but until last Saturday not on a daily basis. The first computer they sat at had been restored meanwhile.

So, a setup done by the "company" is very likely. However, another reason can't be completely disposed of. The harddisk of a public computer is an excellent medium for file sharing for people who don't have computers - only mobile phones and mp3-players. The last month we've had several unknown youngish Thai males coming around. Until then, the only Thai patrons we'd had were females or older males of the kind that wouldn't feel comfortable in a gaming cafe... So, my computer could actually have been used as a server for sharing copyrighted files. But - pretty much a coincidence, timewise. Those other guys, could as well have been guys getting a bonus for infecting harddisks. Maybe 5-6 computers had been restored through the preceding two weeks, which might have saved me from even worse. (Got a 50,000 baht discount because there only was one computer infected).

Well, one thing I'm glad about is that the eventual setup wasn't aimed neither at me nor foreigners in particular. At the policestation, there were two other Internet cafe owners both 100% Thai, in the same situation. As my wife spreads the story around, she gets told similar stories in return. Last year a couple of Thai cafees in the near neighbor had to pay and the same thing happens in places like Phrae and Lampang.

[realthaideal]

Way harsh Cyber. Sorry you had to go thru that. Imagine 100k baht... = 100 x 1000 bhat dinners, one for every fourth night of the year. Ouch! I smell a major racket here. I have friends in Kad Luang and the Night Bazaar, and when the IP people are doing knock-off goods crackdowns, they already have a network of somebody back at the station who tips them off - for appropriate tea money of course. This assures that nobody ever gets busted hardly. What happens is that the call is placed. The key shopowner that gets notified does a phone tree to all of his/her friends, and the word spreads. Everybody either closes or puts all the counterfeit merch under counters and in the back. And fast !! Just like the scurrying that happens outdoors when rain starts pouring, everyone snaps into action. By the time the cops arrive in a half hour or so, everything's hidden, except for the unlucky couple people who aren't part of the network or new to the vending area. They are the sacrificial lambs who get fined n busted. There's inevitably a picture or two taken, especially of the haul, so that they can show they were out on patrol and doing their jobs, though in reality everyone knows lots more fo the stuff was everywhere.

Never heard of this b4. Sorry for the Thai owners too. Glad it's not an anti-Farang conspiracy. But disturbed if it was planted as it may have been.

When I got my computer built a few years back at com plaza...and those ARE some well off shops, it came loaded with all kinds of pleng Thai. I had hundreds of files. Just imagine it.......but agina, maybe they don't get busted as they keep someone in their pockets.

[singa-traz]

Out of curiosity, with which party did you negotiate and settle a discount on the fine?

[cmsally]

I don't know about the legalities of this , but was wondering it must be so difficult to control what people are downloading, would some sort of disclaimer notice protect you.

Such as It is illegal to download copyrighted material onto our computers .... the management takes no responsibility etc etc

I know there is such a thing to protect bar and hotel owners about drugs and if they have such a notice warning people, they are not responsible.

This might be something to check with a lawyer to see if it could protect you in the future

[Donnyboy]

Thanks for the sympathy... So, Thailand actually has a "Department of Intellectual Property"? - I'm surprised.

Well, a setup is very likely. But I doubt it was a setup done by the police. Besides, I can think of at least one other plausible explanation. It all went like this:

Last Saturday around 9.00 PM eight plain cloth Thais, politely presenting themselves as police entered my shop, politely showing id long enough for me to memorize the number and politely asking for permission to check my computers. The permission was granted of course - had nothing to hide, I thought.

The group consisted of one older, local cop (who just sat down looking bored, not participating at all) and a youngish taskforce of five from Bangkok. The remaining two (also youngish) guys weren't police, but from some "company" which I never found out was of what character. These also just sat down, obviously not part of the taskforce. The two guys in charge of the taskforce, went straight to the one computer, they found stuff on (it was even turned off at that time, but they patiently waited until it was up rather than starting to check the machine next to it).

When I said "downloading a Thai music mp3" I weren't exact. There must have been at least hundred titles, which would have taken too long to download from the web - more likely they were copied from a dvd or multi GB memory stick, and certainly enough for an accusation of organized copying to hold.

My wife recognized the two guys from the "company". They had been in our shop 2 times - about a week earlier and the day before. We don't have that many youngish male Thai customers, so my wife even remembered which computer they sat at. The first time they first sat at one computer then made a switch to the one "infected". The second time - guess where they sat? ... Their story was that they found the music files at their first visit, and since the files still were there a week later, they got the police going.

For all I know, they - themselves - could have "infected" both computers at their first visit. I do have driveimages of each PC in a state, where noone but I have ever touched them, which I restore whenever things seem a bit messed up, but until last Saturday not on a daily basis. The first computer they sat at had been restored meanwhile.

So, a setup done by the "company" is very likely. However, another reason can't be completely disposed of. The harddisk of a public computer is an excellent medium for file sharing for people who don't have computers - only mobile phones and mp3-players. The last month we've had several unknown youngish Thai males coming around. Until then, the only Thai patrons we'd had were females or older males of the kind that wouldn't feel comfortable in a gaming cafe... So, my computer could actually have been used as a server for sharing copyrighted files. But - pretty much a coincidence, timewise. Those other guys, could as well have been guys getting a bonus for infecting harddisks. Maybe 5-6 computers had been restored through the preceding two weeks, which might have saved me from even worse. (Got a 50,000 baht discount because there only was one computer infected).

Well, one thing I'm glad about is that the eventual setup wasn't aimed neither at me nor foreigners in particular. At the policestation, there were two other Internet cafe owners both 100% Thai, in the same situation. As my wife spreads the story around, she gets told similar stories in return. Last year a couple of Thai cafees in the near neighbor had to pay and the same thing happens in places like Phrae and Lampang.

sounds like a set up to me.

A gang of cops from the Big smoke doing the rounds of all internet cafes, bars, karaoke joints with a list of which computers are infected. Would be a nice little earner doing this circuit.

Anything not taxed by BIB?

[Cyberstar]

Out of curiosity, with which party did you negotiate and settle a discount on the fine?

That was a woman from the taskforce, but she left the room a couple of times, so it could have been on anyone's behalf.

I'm not sure 'negotiations' is a fitting term, though. The woman didn't speak any English and my Thai isn't good enough for situations like that. At first I weren't considered an involved party at all. They took the computer and my wife to the policestation. When I got there 20 minutes later, the amount was already reduced to 50,000. However, that money was supposed to be paid on spot - otherwise my wife would be kept in custody and later transferred to Bangkok for further processing of the case.

Well, the cafe is officially owned and run by a company. Licenses, bills, etc. all in company name. I had brought along the whole pile of docs and the 'negotiation' consisted of me showing them off and pointing here and there, while playing too stupid to understand what we were doing at that policestation at all. So they had found some copyrighted Thai songs on a company computer and now they wanted to fine the company? Fine, thats just part of doing business. The issue can be handled by the company lawyer during regular office hours on Monday.

It obviously was important for them to get the money right away. Don't know if i could've stretch it any further, but I didn't dare to try. Could envision them hauling the whole set of computers down to Bangkok for a closer look.

[wadsy]

I just posted this in the general topics but I see that you got stung Saturday Cyberstar. And you know, the same deal as you, they went to a pc that she said a Thai customer that she has never seen before, sat at that morning. No doubt in my mind a setup but I suppose at least this time no bride but I think its gonna cost in the long run what with lawyer fees and fines.

My g/f owns a small internet cafe in Chiang Mai. Yesterday a mixture of 8-10 police and 'music company representatives' turned up unannounced demanding to go through all the PC's looking for Thai Music. This has happened to her before we were together and one time it cost her 10,000 and the next time they demanded 50,000. Both times and again yesterday, they dragged her (and our six year old daughter) down to the Police Station. She called me and I told her to not pay them anything and you will let the Court handle it. The police were actually very good about all this and took her aside in a locked room and said to her to not pay them and that to deny all the things that they were saying as well.

Anyway she got charged and fingerprinted and I had to go and bail her out. 30,000 baht later (which the police gave her a receipt for and told her that she will have it all returned when she goes to Court) and she was allowed to go but she told me that the music company pr*&ks were not happy one little bit!

Heres the thing though, she has a program on the PC's that ensures that when you switch the PC off or restart it, everything that is downloaded to it gets wiped and it starts again. She got this program because of the trouble before with these a#$holes. That would mean that someone has come into her cafe sometime yesterday morning and 'downloaded' music and then they have turned up and 'found' it yesterday afternoon. This is bs and she has to go to the police station next week and make a statement apparently.

Has anyone else on TV had any experience with this or can offer any advice other than talking to a lawyer which btw my g/f is doing this week. I can't understand how she can legally held accountable under copyright laws if she can show the Court that she has done all she can to ensure that illegal downloads do not happen i.e installed the memory wipe program. Its not as if she was getting any benefit or financial reward in any way.

Thanks in advance for any constructive replies..........

[Cyberstar]

Heres the thing though, she has a program on the PC's that ensures that when you switch the PC off or restart it, everything that is downloaded to it gets wiped and it starts again. She got this program because of the trouble before with these a#$holes. That would mean that someone has come into her cafe sometime yesterday morning and 'downloaded' music and then they have turned up and 'found' it yesterday afternoon.

So, now we're at least 6 Internet cafees in central Chiang Mai that has been hit within the last year... It seems like this kind of computer attack evolves as any other computer attack. When the attacked protect themselves, the attackers become meaner.

I'm in the process of preparing for the next level of meanness - you know: some guy sits down at a computer, two minutes later DIP or whomever enters. Most of my PC's are already on Linux and the rest is to follow. One good thing about Linux is that it's easy to lock and write protect whatever you want to lock and write protect. So I'm going to write protect the client PC's completely. The only writable folder will be a shared folder on the server, which can be wiped the very second those guys step up the front porch. (Another benefit by this approach is that they won't be able to plant anything during the search, if one write protects the shared folder after wipe).

Edited September 17, 2007 by Cyberstar

[wadsy]

Yeah I tend to agree with you Cyber. We just down the road from you so might drop by and have a chat. Such a pain in ass that this is, not to mention the expense.

Cheers,

Dave

[technocracy]

Sounds a real lucrative scam this one! Obviously they must be pluging in a USB memory stick with music and copying it in bulk - quick and very discreet.

It would be interesting to see if the two guy on here if they still have a copy of the file to compare the files found - identical or not!

The shared folder on a server and sod all access to anything else is certainly the way to go! Also ensure web browsers are given only 1meg of space for cache (don't need anything else).

It'd be amusing if an IP group ever started here in Laos nearly all CD and DVD stores in the country would be in severe trouble!!

[realthaideal]

This topic is always timely I suppose. I told my Kad Luang friend about it and she said that it's hard to get a bead on what the BKK officials will do. I'm very intrigued by all the prevention postings by other people that concern the actual computer safety/information aspects of things. But I also recommend trying to chat up whoever might work in the chain of enforcement command.

Just this last Saturday, it turned out that it was the birthday of a high up officer who does the enforcing on licensed goods like I mentioned in my previous post. All the girls made sure to show up at his party at some club across from Niyom Panit. Each person was sure to bring a present and also bring bottles of JW Red, and Black. They celebrated with the officer and his friends and made sure to be very well noticed as his friends for the coming year. It's defense Thai style. I take it all in with a grain of salt, but pay very close attention to how it works nevertheless.

[Donnyboy]

This topic is always timely I suppose. I told my Kad Luang friend about it and she said that it's hard to get a bead on what the BKK officials will do. I'm very intrigued by all the prevention postings by other people that concern the actual computer safety/information aspects of things. But I also recommend trying to chat up whoever might work in the chain of enforcement command.

Just this last Saturday, it turned out that it was the birthday of a high up officer who does the enforcing on licensed goods like I mentioned in my previous post. All the girls made sure to show up at his party at some club across from Niyom Panit. Each person was sure to bring a present and also bring bottles of JW Red, and Black. They celebrated with the officer and his friends and made sure to be very well noticed as his friends for the coming year. It's defense Thai style. I take it all in with a grain of salt, but pay very close attention to how it works nevertheless.

I call it ground work.

prevention is better than the cure, esp in this case where lost time and the fines and lawyers fees involved if it went that far, and possibly a spot in the nations media as the latest IP crim