The Role Of A Wife In Thai Society

[FarangNoi21]

I think that for Thai men, the most important factor in choosing a wife is her status. By choosing a high status Wife #1 it sends a signal out to all of the other women in the country that you are a high status kind of guy. If you were good enough for her, then you are good enough for them.

The second role of a wife is raising your children, however for wealthy Thais this becomes less important because they can afford an Isaan nanny.

The final role of the wife is to be caring and and take care of her husband emotionally and physically.

[londonthai]

a poor state of affairs - wife not more as a toy for the husband. It's still a patriarchal system and even with polygamy and slavery abolished in thailand some years ago - it's still entrenched in the society.

I would blame an educational system as well as religious believes

[fletchsmile]

I think that for Thai men, the most important factor in choosing a wife is her status. By choosing a high status Wife #1 it sends a signal out to all of the other women in the country that you are a high status kind of guy. If you were good enough for her, then you are good enough for them.

The second role of a wife is raising your children, however for wealthy Thais this becomes less important because they can afford an Isaan nanny.

The final role of the wife is to be caring and and take care of her husband emotionally and physically.

It varies across individuals - but those 3 would be high on most Thai guys lists tho'. Particularly status/face and what the family/others thinks of her, plus a bit of a trophy and a possession.

For me. as a non-Thai, her role used to be largely what she tells me it is... These days her main role is a mother tho' which she really does throw 100% into as a main priorty. Perhaps like western women a few decades back.

Now we have a little female boss who defines both our roles, I'm just waiting til she gets a little older, so I can infuence her to influence her mother...

Edited September 22, 2007 by fletchthai68

[qualtrough]

I think that for Thai men, the most important factor in choosing a wife is her status. By choosing a high status Wife #1 it sends a signal out to all of the other women in the country that you are a high status kind of guy. If you were good enough for her, then you are good enough for them.

The second role of a wife is raising your children, however for wealthy Thais this becomes less important because they can afford an Isaan nanny.

The final role of the wife is to be caring and and take care of her husband emotionally and physically.

I don't see any evidence at all for reason number one. Where in the world did you come up with that idea?

[rainman]

I have to disagree with you. It's not Thai men choosing a higher class wife to elevate themselves. It's more like the other way around. Low class Thai men have very little to no chance of getting married to a Thai woman that is of a higher class than they are.

[geriatrickid]

Perhaps the observations are true for those of limited economic means or education, but it does not hold true for many others. It is no different than the west. A successful Thai woman is not going to marry a tuk tuk driver, no matter how cute he is, anymore than a western lady is going to marry a taxi driver. Seriously now, when is the last time anyone actually saw a senior male exec from a foreign based company marry a Thai hawker or retail clerk? When's the last time a uni prof, married the groundskeeper, anywhere? It may happen, but it's a rarity.

The problem with these TV sociological observations is that they are given from the perspective of the cloistered expat community. For those expats that are high end in terms of employment or education, their chances of meeting high end members of the opposite sex are far greater than that of the old guy who's social life consists of visiting girlie bars in Pattaya.

[farang prince]

Perhaps the observations are true for those of limited economic means or education, but it does not hold true for many others. It is no different than the west. A successful Thai woman is not going to marry a tuk tuk driver, no matter how cute he is, anymore than a western lady is going to marry a taxi driver. Seriously now, when is the last time anyone actually saw a senior male exec from a foreign based company marry a Thai hawker or retail clerk? When's the last time a uni prof, married the groundskeeper, anywhere? It may happen, but it's a rarity.

The problem with these TV sociological observations is that they are given from the perspective of the cloistered expat community. For those expats that are high end in terms of employment or education, their chances of meeting high end members of the opposite sex are far greater than that of the old guy who's social life consists of visiting girlie bars in Pattaya.

Who cares about the social status of your wife or lover? The most important thing is how strong is your relationship and how happy and content you are within that social framework. People that use marriage as a means of social climbing are shallow and repulsive. You better be more concerned with whether she will clean up your bed after you mess it up when you are 85.

[sbk]

I know a Thai man from a well-to-do local family so he was considered a good catch on the island. As a single man, he had several approaches from other girls' families for an arranged marriage, which he turned down. The girls' families also had significant land holdings so it was considered a good match.

Well-to-do families also expect a high sin sot for marriage to their daughters as well as marriage to a man who comes from the same or higher (preferably higher) social class than their own.

So, we could turn it around and ask, what is the role of the husband in these matches?

[JetsetBkk]

For those expats that are high end in terms of employment or education, their chances of meeting high end members of the opposite sex are far greater than that of the old guy who's social life consists of visiting girlie bars in Pattaya.

...and posting on internet forums.

Bugger. I must get out more.

[GuestHouse]

I think there are as many reasons why a Thai man chooses a certain Thai woman to marry as there are Thai men married to or getting marriied to Thai women.

I think the reasons are broadly similar to the reasons why English guys choose their wives, likewise French guys, Italian guys or guys the world over.

I also believe that in more than a few cases it is the woman who does the choosing.

[torrenova]

Seriously now, when is the last time anyone actually saw a senior male exec from a foreign based company marry a Thai hawker or retail clerk? When's the last time a uni prof, married the groundskeeper, anywhere? It may happen, but it's a rarity.

Would that include an investment banker marrying a former kitchen hand, market stall assistant and wig maker ?

If so, include me. I have no qualms about what people think. I broke into the investment banking world without connections or a private eduation and succeeded on merit. I know many who are there by birthright, some good, many incompetent. They would probably love an exotic wife like myself but will marry someone of their own status because they haven't the balls to act like an individual.

[naka]

I think there are as many reasons why a Thai man chooses a certain Thai woman to marry as there are Thai men married to or getting marriied to Thai women.

I think the reasons are broadly similar to the reasons why English guys choose their wives, likewise French guys, Italian guys or guys the world over.

I also believe that in more than a few cases it is the woman who does the choosing.

That sounds about right. Boy meets girl, boy likes girl, girl likes boy.

Naka.

[Johpa]

a poor state of affairs - wife not more as a toy for the husband. It's still a patriarchal system and even with polygamy and slavery abolished in thailand some years ago - it's still entrenched in the society.

I would blame an educational system as well as religious believes

In reality, outside the Chinese dominated cities in Thailand, traditional Thai culture is not patriarchal, but is certainly moving in that direction. Traditional Thai culture is matrilocal with husbands moving in with their wives family and the wife having a significant say in family matters as she will be backed up by her sisters and parents and her hubby would have been dependent upon his new father-in-law for padi land. Many rural villages still have clusters of sisters living in close proximity. So traditionally, hai women were not mere toys for their husbands. The husbands were toys of the rulers, the chao chiwits, who took the men away for several months a year as corvee laborers.

Chinese culture is patriarchal and patrilineal. And as the prestigious economic elite in Thailand, the Thai Chinese have long been influencing traditional Thai culture towards their own social norms. Skinner got it arse backwards.

[FarangNoi21]

"The problem with these TV sociological observations is that they are given from the perspective of the cloistered expat community. For those expats that are high end in terms of employment or education, their chances of meeting high end members of the opposite sex are far greater than that of the old guy who's social life consists of visiting girlie bars in Pattaya."

you have no idea what you are talking about. a wife is a status symbol for thai men with money. btw, i have no idea what my most has to do with pattaya or farang. if it helps you, i have spent an entire 2 days in pattaya my entire life. it seems like you have some sort of bent, maybe you should just go post in one of the many i hate farang with bar girl topics.

Edited September 22, 2007 by FarangNoi21

[ColPyat]

In reality, outside the Chinese dominated cities in Thailand, traditional Thai culture is not patriarchal, but is certainly moving in that direction. Traditional Thai culture is matrilocal with husbands moving in with their wives family and the wife having a significant say in family matters as she will be backed up by her sisters and parents and her hubby would have been dependent upon his new father-in-law for padi land. Many rural villages still have clusters of sisters living in close proximity. So traditionally, hai women were not mere toys for their husbands. The husbands were toys of the rulers, the chao chiwits, who took the men away for several months a year as corvee laborers.

Chinese culture is patriarchal and patrilineal. And as the prestigious economic elite in Thailand, the Thai Chinese have long been influencing traditional Thai culture towards their own social norms. Skinner got it arse backwards.

Thank you for a bit of educated reality on the cultural background here.

Obviously in modern Thailand many of those traditions are watering down slowly, especially have so in the last ten years. Both in the newly urban worker classes (hardly researched yet) and in the middle classes more and more marriages are love based, and also in the villages this becomes more the norm now.

[Briggsy]

There is no uniform rule here but there are trends. It is difficult to analyse as urban Sino merchant families have little in common ethnic Thai rural political-connected families etc.

My observation of one family was husband from rich family (military background though he himself was not military) finds capable middle-class Thai with good degree from similar ethnic background. Husband's family provide connections and capital for business. Wifey runs it as husband can't be bothered. Husband spends the profits. So the wife shored up the missing chink in the husband's armour. Marry for future success, happiness and prosperity.

[FarangNoi21]

I have to disagree with you. It's not Thai men choosing a higher class wife to elevate themselves. It's more like the other way around. Low class Thai men have very little to no chance of getting married to a Thai woman that is of a higher class than they are.

status is important to both parties, but women dont seek more partners after marriage.

[taxexile]

Would that include an investment banker marrying a former kitchen hand, market stall assistant and wig maker ? ........They would probably love an exotic wife like myself but will marry someone of their own status because they haven't the balls to act like an individual.

what is so different about a former thai kitchen hand , market stall assistant and wig maker marrying a foriegn investment banker that makes her any more , or less , "exotic" than a former thai female investment executive who marries another foriegn investment executive ?

exotic means "foriegn" and "strangely beautiful" and has nothing to do with perceived status in society.

i'm not sure i get the point of your post .

[gburns57au]

A Thai woman would rarely marry below her class.

If she did she would lose face with her family.

[taxexile]

A Thai woman would rarely marry below her class.

If she did she would lose face with her family.

i have seen many thai women , from the so called "lower classes" of thai society who have married falangs from classes much much lower , but the women probably werent aware of that at the time !

[IMA_FARANG]

I think that for Thai men, the most important factor in choosing a wife is her status. By choosing a high status Wife #1 it sends a signal out to all of the other women in the country that you are a high status kind of guy. If you were good enough for her, then you are good enough for them.

The second role of a wife is raising your children, however for wealthy Thais this becomes less important because they can afford an Isaan nanny.

The final role of the wife is to be caring and and take care of her husband emotionally and physically.

Not to be impolite, but how long have you been in Thailand? I have heard the myth that the wife is secondary and the man is pre-eminent in the Thai family. From what I have seen this is a male sponsored myth, that the ladies go along with as they well know they have the real power no matter what the husband thinks.

As you mention the two roles "assigned" to the wife are family care/take care of children and "status" for the husband. In Thai society, especially in a family structure this is very important. And the women are in charge of that part of the family. That gives them, in reality, a lot of power. No Thai man would interfere in the proper raising of children and their schooling because that would be below their elevated position in the family. For that reason the wife's or woman's word runs that part of the family, and therefore women have the real power in the family (even though they let the husband 'think" he is the boss, the wife has the real power.) No Thai man would lower himself to question the women's role in raising the children, spending the money to get a "proper" schooling and raising of the children, and making sure that the children have the proper religious/moral upbringing in a proper Thai family. Since that is the backbone of a proper Thai family, the women actually run the family, even if they are smart enough to let the men imagine otherwise. Haven't you seen that yet?

Edited September 23, 2007 by IMA_FARANG

[Gary A]

My Thai wife chose me. For a long time I simply wasn't interested but I was flattered. Over time we got to know each other and I knew that I could do much worse. She always told my friends that I was her boyfriend even though she wouldn't go out with me. Many of my friends asked her out but she always had the same story. She already has a boyfriend. When she thought the time was right, she finally agreed to go out with me and to my great pleasure we got along very well. It just seemed natural with no pressure or great expectations. It was a strange feeling for me and I liked it. To develop a relationship with no lust or sex was strange indeed. Today she is my wife and the last four years have been great. That said, anyone who thinks Thai women and my wife in particular are submissive better think again. I still get the standard up to you answers but I am smart enough to know that it is NOT up to me. It just takes her a while to make me believe that is is actually my idea.

[FarangNoi21]

I think that for Thai men, the most important factor in choosing a wife is her status. By choosing a high status Wife #1 it sends a signal out to all of the other women in the country that you are a high status kind of guy. If you were good enough for her, then you are good enough for them.

The second role of a wife is raising your children, however for wealthy Thais this becomes less important because they can afford an Isaan nanny.

The final role of the wife is to be caring and and take care of her husband emotionally and physically.

Not to be impolite, but how long have you been in Thailand? I have heard the myth that the wife is secondary and the man is pre-eminent in the Thai family. From what I have seen this is a male sponsored myth, that the ladies go along with as they well know they have the real power no matter what the husband thinks.

As you mention the two roles "assigned" to the wife are family care/take care of children and "status" for the husband. In Thai society, especially in a family structure this is very important. And the women are in charge of that part of the family. That gives them, in reality, a lot of power. No Thai man would interfere in the proper raising of children and their schooling because that would be below their elevated position in the family. For that reason the wife's or woman's word runs that part of the family, and therefore women have the real power in the family (even though they let the husband 'think" he is the boss, the wife has the real power.) No Thai man would lower himself to question the women's role in raising the children, spending the money to get a "proper" schooling and raising of the children, and making sure that the children have the proper religious/moral upbringing in a proper Thai family. Since that is the backbone of a proper Thai family, the women actually run the family, even if they are smart enough to let the men imagine otherwise. Haven't you seen that yet?

so how many rich thai men do you know without mistresses?

[Gary A]

I don't know any rich Thai men that well to have them provide that kind of information. There is an old Thai saying that a woman is the elephant's hind legs. Since the elephant develops most of his power with his hind legs, the saying should be fairly obvious.

[jts-khorat]

so how many rich thai men do you know without mistresses?

In reality, outside the Chinese dominated cities in Thailand, traditional Thai culture is not patriarchal, but is certainly moving in that direction. Traditional Thai culture is matrilocal with husbands moving in with their wives family and the wife having a significant say in family matters as she will be backed up by her sisters and parents.

Chinese culture is patriarchal and patrilineal. And as the prestigious economic elite in Thailand, the Thai Chinese have long been influencing traditional Thai culture towards their own social norms. Skinner got it arse backwards.

Having a mistress is a status thing and certainly very strongly influenced by Chinese ways of thinking. Therefore the existence of Mia Nois in Thai society does not detract at all from Johpa's analysis.

Social analysis becomes incredible difficult if TV posters throw the bottom-and the top-end of Thailand into one bucket as if their lifestyle would be identical and habits interchangeable. They are not, you have two different populations with absolutely different habits and with only some overlap somewhere in the middle.

Following Chinese thinking, a mistress does actually enhance the social status of the First wife, as it shows that her husband has the status and can demonstrate the financial means to have a #proper# Mia noi (with all the #social responsibilities# this brings with it) and has the acumen to be trusted in business. Not much more than the second Benz in the garage and the root of the 'Clan'-thinking in China.

FarangNoi21, how many poor Isaan farmers do you know who actually have a Second wife with her own house, car and jewelry?? I thought so...

As was observed in another thread just recently, a Mia Noi has little to do with the 'messing behind the back of the wife' - thing that narrowminded westerners attribute to it.

For this, as was observed also, men go into the massage or the karaoke and this actually has nothing to do with having a Mia Noi or not.

But I am fully expecting we will get now 50 posts of the inevitable BS drivel that always follows more clear-minded posts -- sometimes I can only assume from the answers posted that TV members are either completely insecure 17-olds or the most incredibly grumpy puritanist senior citizens one could imagine.

[lazeeboy]

thai men will often marry beneath them selves ,woman would never.....

[phosamton]

In my opinion, a great way to understand a culture is by reading its literature. May I recommend checking out Kukrit's FOUR REIGNS as an excellent way to gain insight into the role of a Thai woman/wife in this society...

I would agree that each social class and ethnic group is quite different in Thailand, and that women do have a lot more control than what is on the surface, and that a man normally would not undermind his wife's approach to child-rearing, except maybe when discussing what private school to send Somchai to...but the times are changing, most younger Thais I know (18-22) in BKK seem to have a family structure closer to the nuclear one, both parents working with dad being more involved in the family life.

[FarangNoi21]

so how many rich thai men do you know without mistresses?

In reality, outside the Chinese dominated cities in Thailand, traditional Thai culture is not patriarchal, but is certainly moving in that direction. Traditional Thai culture is matrilocal with husbands moving in with their wives family and the wife having a significant say in family matters as she will be backed up by her sisters and parents.

Chinese culture is patriarchal and patrilineal. And as the prestigious economic elite in Thailand, the Thai Chinese have long been influencing traditional Thai culture towards their own social norms. Skinner got it arse backwards.

Having a mistress is a status thing and certainly very strongly influenced by Chinese ways of thinking. Therefore the existence of Mia Nois in Thai society does not detract at all from Johpa's analysis.

Social analysis becomes incredible difficult if TV posters throw the bottom-and the top-end of Thailand into one bucket as if their lifestyle would be identical and habits interchangeable. They are not, you have two different populations with absolutely different habits and with only some overlap somewhere in the middle.

Following Chinese thinking, a mistress does actually enhance the social status of the First wife, as it shows that her husband has the status and can demonstrate the financial means to have a #proper# Mia noi (with all the #social responsibilities# this brings with it) and has the acumen to be trusted in business. Not much more than the second Benz in the garage and the root of the 'Clan'-thinking in China.

FarangNoi21, how many poor Isaan farmers do you know who actually have a Second wife with her own house, car and jewelry?? I thought so...

As was observed in another thread just recently, a Mia Noi has little to do with the 'messing behind the back of the wife' - thing that narrowminded westerners attribute to it.

For this, as was observed also, men go into the massage or the karaoke and this actually has nothing to do with having a Mia Noi or not.

But I am fully expecting we will get now 50 posts of the inevitable BS drivel that always follows more clear-minded posts -- sometimes I can only assume from the answers posted that TV members are either completely insecure 17-olds or the most incredibly grumpy puritanist senior citizens one could imagine.

this is a good post but the reason that poor men's habbits differ from wealthy men is because they lack money, not because of different belief systems. i agree that mia nois aren't about sex, that was my point. a western man has one wife, whereas wealthy thai male have multiple wifes (in the form of mia nois). that is a difference in western/eastern cultures i guess.

women are more likely to marry up in class, but that doesn't mean that a women's status isn't also important to her husband. if a thai man chooses a tall, white skinned, beautiful women as his wife, its just like having a mercedes, it sends a message to other thai women that they should become hs mia noi.

so there is no confusion, i am not making any moral judgements.

[jts-khorat]

but the times are changing, most younger Thais I know (18-22) in BKK seem to have a family structure closer to the nuclear one, both parents working with dad being more involved in the family life.

One might come to the conclusion that western influence through television and even by our own living in Thailand is actually worsening the status of the Isaan-style wife, by taking from her her well-defined role as controller of the estate, financial matters, and education of the children and demoting her to just a laborer without special rights as the man is already.

What Thai women will still have to experience is that 'emanizpation' only puts all the bad habits of men at the disposal of women while forcing them into the same cycle of unfulfilled labor in a 'real' job for a 'real' salary while at the same time making it 'un-modern' to feel fulfillment in a 'traditional=outdated' role.

The result are frustrated males, frustrated females, broken families, lost family values through the board, a mind-blowing divorce rate and the typical Farang coming to stay in Thailand as 'ambassador' of our 'liberal and advanced cultural values'.

[WaiWai]

Look up "Thailand (Muang Thai)Kittiwut Jod Taywaditep, M.D., M.A., Eli Coleman, Ph.D. and Pacharin Dumronggittigule, M.Sc."

for a quite readable overview.