Hot Showers

[lotus eater]

I recently saw a gas heated shower at a price comparable to a mid-range electric one. I inquired as to the pro s and con s and was told that in the Chiang Rai winter the electric one won't provide really hot water. (I've just moved to CR and will certainly want the showers to be piping hot.) I don't know if this is true.

I today was in a Homepro and there the man told me that if I have a two-tap mixer a properly installed electric shower will certainly give hot water - he had a tester system installed in the shop for demonstations which certainly did provide hot water. I don't know if this was also just a sales pitch for the electric ones - or if such installation is difficult.

So far my homes in Thailand have had electric showers (I would guess the cheaper models) and have needed to be set at near the maximum to provide really hot water. I am prepared to install a new shower at my expense in the new rented home.

I'd appreciate any info which will help me to choose between electric and gas installations. A strong recommendation of a particular brand would be helpful too. I don't want to spend a fortune, and would prefer to avoid installatios that need breaking the tiles etc in the bathroom.

[GuestHouse]

Neither - Solar.

[lazeeboy]

Neither - Solar.

electric if fitted right .

[torrenova]

What ? Gas showers, get real. Decent Japanese electric is the way to go unless you have enough faith and cash to put into solar. I would not on a rented property.

[jaiyenyen]

WARNING

Never connect an electric shower to a tap, it will turn it into a potential BOMB.

An elecrtic shower always needs an open outlet ie the handset.

What you saw in Homepro was an electric water heater, it looks the same, but is different inside.

If you buy a gas heater make sure it is fitted properly, and also buy a carbon monoxide detector, fumes from an incorrectly installed gas heater can kill.

I'm not sure if carbon monoxide detectors are available in Thailand, but you could always get one sent from home.

Personally, I would go with electric.

Regards

Jaiyenyen

[dominique355]

Neither - Solar.

I have toyed with the idea of installing solar heater for warm water. I live in Bangkok and I have enough space on the roof or on an unused balcony. Has anyone experience in this?

[Gary A]

Neither - Solar.

I have toyed with the idea of installing solar heater for warm water. I live in Bangkok and I have enough space on the roof or on an unused balcony. Has anyone experience in this?

I can tell you for a fact that solar water heaters work in Bangkok. I lived in an apartment that had one on the roof. I looked at it and it was very old. On the top it looked like it had car radiators. I couldn't see any brand name. The water was so hot that I had to install a mixer tap. Even early in the mornings, I had to add cold water. The thing was totally passive and had no electric for a circulating pump.

[a2396]

Neither - Solar.

I have toyed with the idea of installing solar heater for warm water. I live in Bangkok and I have enough space on the roof or on an unused balcony. Has anyone experience in this?

Most apartments in KK use rooftop water tanks. It is OK in summer, but in Winter it can get cold in Issan and they are not adequate. OK for Thais who are used to taking cold showers, but not to my liking. I never saw a gas water heater in SE Asia. I assume you are talkiing about a propane one. Electric works good unless the water pressure is high and the flow through is to fast. If so, just adjust the flow tap downward to slow the speed. Works fo me in winter when the water is cold.

[naka]

Why is it newbies to the tropics can't get used to cool showers ?

Just clench your butt and jump under the spray

Naka.

[FarangNoi21]

i have some kind of box in my shower. is it dangerous? i dont want to die in the <deleted> shower.

[triffid]

I appreciate the many replies. So that I can make a decision:

Can someone contradict with confidence the claim by the sales girl that in the Chiang Rai winter (reputedly colder than most thai localities) the right electric shower will provide piping hot water?

If so can someone suggest a brand - a high end one is fine provided it is easily installed and unistalled to take easily to take to the next rented house)?

The solar shower appeals to me - but comparative purchase price, ease of installation/removal, hot water in Chiang Rai winters?

The gas shower being suggested was a chinese made one, and would be fed from a butane cylinder (like the ones used for stoves).

The warning about fitting to a mixer tap is contrary to the Homepro chap who demonstrated the thing in their Chiang Mai Carrefour shop. These electric showers seem to be ubiquitous, so how dangerous are they in practice and how hard is it to get them safely installed?

[PeaceBlondie]

I sincerely doubt that Chiang Rai gets a whole lot colder than Chiang Mai, but I could be wrong. I had 5 or 6 kw and it was too hot to use full force; had to mix it. If you get a high capacity, like 6000 watts, you should be okay, unless you need to burn your skin. Now we have a wall heater, old and probably only 4000 watts, and we cannot stand to put it on the hottest setting. National is a good Thai brand (pronounced NAYsha-nal), but foreign brands might be higher quality.

[tangoll]

I just had two Clarte electric units (Malaysian made) installed in my new BKK condo. One is multipoint -- for shower stall, bathtub, and wash basin -- which gets piping hot water and cost baht 6500 including installation at Homepro, and the other is a single point (which the installation guy called warm water unit) which is connected only to the shower in the 2nd bathroom and cost baht 4900 including installation. The units have to hang onto the wall somewhere near the water inflow tap, so some drilling is necessary.

My experience with gas heaters is from HK and the US, so I don't know if they are relevant to Thailand's situation. The HK unit works fine and I don't know if it has a carbon monoxide sensor, but in any case, whenever I take a shower, the exhaust fan is on as well. The gas unit needs sufficient water pressure flowing thru it or it won't fire up. I don't remember if the US units had a water tank or not. I have no experience with solar heaters.

Edited September 27, 2007 by tangoll

[chownah]

We live in Chiangrai...we have an above ground water storage tank....in the cold season the water tank gets chilled at night and the result is that the water coming into the house is appreciably colder than at other times of the year and this appreciably colder water takes appreciably more power to heat it up. We have a gas shower unit and it provides a good stream of hot water even in the cold season. We had an electric unit before and it wasn't up to the task...and when it ran it dimmed the lights and sometimes made the cd player sputter. Don't recall what the wattage was on the electric unit though. We have recently replaced our previous gas heater (a National) with one from Ecolux which is much cheaper. So far the Ecolux works fine and seems like it will provide hot water even during the upcoming cold season...but time will tell. I think that if you get a high enough wattage then you can get hot water even in the cold season here....but whether it adversely affects your other electrical appliances will depend on the wiring in the building and the overall supply for your community....also, you might be limited to the wattage you can install because of the circuit breaker and wiring size in your apartment.

Chownah

[roietjimmy]

i have some kind of box in my shower. is it dangerous? i dont want to die in the <deleted> shower.

If it's a box with a temperature control and the output goes directly to the shower head you should be OK. Care needs to be taken though because they are on demand heaters. That is the heater unit comes on when water is flowing through the unit. When the flow gets below a certain level, a flow sensor turns off the electric heating unit. If the flow sensor is malfunctioning and the heating unit stays on with no water flow, you have the potential for an explosion. There should be a red light on the unit. If the red light stays on after you have turned of the water you have a problem. Most of these heaters have a circut breaker switch close by. To be on the safe side always turn it off when you are not in the shower. Hope you feel better?

[roietjimmy]

I appreciate the many replies. So that I can make a decision:

Can someone contradict with confidence the claim by the sales girl that in the Chiang Rai winter (reputedly colder than most thai localities) the right electric shower will provide piping hot water?

If so can someone suggest a brand - a high end one is fine provided it is easily installed and unistalled to take easily to take to the next rented house)?

The solar shower appeals to me - but comparative purchase price, ease of installation/removal, hot water in Chiang Rai winters?

The gas shower being suggested was a chinese made one, and would be fed from a butane cylinder (like the ones used for stoves).

The warning about fitting to a mixer tap is contrary to the Homepro chap who demonstrated the thing in their Chiang Mai Carrefour shop. These electric showers seem to be ubiquitous, so how dangerous are they in practice and how hard is it to get them safely installed?

If you only have one shower needing hot water then I recommend an on demand heater. I would go with Hitachi brand (not sure about the unit from China). They have a good track record and employ a lot of safety features. 4500 watt unit will give you more than enough hot water. As peaceblonde said 6000 watts will give you a scalding if set on high. Installation and uninstalling is fairly straight forward. Will have to do some concrete drilling to get to water pipe and of course run electric to the unit. Make sure you have a circuit breaker switch installed so you can turn the unit off when not in use. Also, make sure you have sufficient power to run the unit without pulling down the rest of the power in the house. The water temperature is controlled on the front of the heater so there is no need to have a cold hot faucet mixer. If you put one in, contrary to what the sales person says you will have problems. Not safety ones but you will likely get temperature swings in the water coming out of the shower head. Very irritating.

Suggest you go to a shop that specializes in water heaters, air conditioning and such. My experience with Carrefore, Lotus, BigC et al is they are not any cheaper and installation is pretty shoddy. Homemart is good and I'm sure there are others like them in Chiangmai.

If you have multiple points where you want hot water then, you will need an electric boiler (storage) heater. Much more complicated installation but many available in Thailand.

[lotus eater]

We live in Chiangrai...we have an above ground water storage tank....in the cold season the water tank gets chilled at night and the result is that the water coming into the house is appreciably colder than at other times of the year and this appreciably colder water takes appreciably more power to heat it up. We have a gas shower unit and it provides a good stream of hot water even in the cold season. We had an electric unit before and it wasn't up to the task...and when it ran it dimmed the lights and sometimes made the cd player sputter. Don't recall what the wattage was on the electric unit though. We have recently replaced our previous gas heater (a National) with one from Ecolux which is much cheaper. So far the Ecolux works fine and seems like it will provide hot water even during the upcoming cold season...but time will tell. I think that if you get a high enough wattage then you can get hot water even in the cold season here....but whether it adversely affects your other electrical appliances will depend on the wiring in the building and the overall supply for your community....also, you might be limited to the wattage you can install because of the circuit breaker and wiring size in your apartment.

Chownah

Thanks again for the further advice and info.

You support what the gas-heated shower shop told me. But there is a consensus that an electric shower with a high enough voltage will also be fine - but you found it interfered with electric supply elsewhere.

It help me greatly if you could tell me which shop in Chiang Rai sold and installed the showers for you - especially if the same shop does both gas and electric ones.

Home Mart is recommended by roietjimmy, and I've noticed there is one of these in Chiang Rai. (There is no Homepro). A one-stop place which sold a good range of both gas and electric showers, and had reliable installation arrangements would be perfect for me, as I am both new to the town and in a hurry to get the shower in.

[guyham]

Tankless, or instantaneous, electric hot water heaters are not ideal for a number of reasons. The first, and most important reason, is that the amount of power required to heat water over a reasonable temperature range is quite large. Taking a shower as an example, the normal acceptable flow rate for most of us is around 2 gallons per minute (that requires a water-flow restricting shower head, by the way). Heating the input water by 50ºF (sorry about being non-metric) requires around 8,000 watts of electrical power. Since Thailand’s voltage is 220V, this requires over 36 amps supply (8,000÷220). Now, in my area most houses have only 10 amp supply although at a premium cost one can get a 30 amp supply but that’s the limit (although it is possible to go to 3-phase but that really complicates the issue). Therefore the theoretical best I can get in my house is a water temperature rise in my shower of around 40°F. During the winter the ground water is below 50°F, so I do not get water temperatures up to 100°F, whereas a “hot” shower is somewhere around the 120°F mark. Furthermore, instantaneous water heaters sold in Thailand usually peak out at 6,000 watts (as opposed to 200V x 30 amp = 6,600 watts) so the water temperature will be a bit lower.

The second reason for not using an instantaneous water heater is – do you really want a system which depends upon safely separating these high electric currents from the water that sprays over you? Ultra fast fuses are not an adequate option. I know of at least one local farang who was electrocuted in his shower.

By the way, if you have a main fuse box with separate circuits for the house, the shower heater must be on a single circuit and have a 30 amp fuse. If you use a 20 amp fuse, as an example, the fuse will keep popping or you will need to set the water temperature control (if available on the water heater) to an unacceptable low temperature.

Sorry about all the engineering info but hope it helps. In my opinion, a gas water heater with a small storage tank (say 20 – 40 gallons) is better and safer.

[jaiyenyen]

I appreciate the many replies. So that I can make a decision:

Can someone contradict with confidence the claim by the sales girl that in the Chiang Rai winter (reputedly colder than most thai localities) the right electric shower will provide piping hot water?

If so can someone suggest a brand - a high end one is fine provided it is easily installed and unistalled to take easily to take to the next rented house)?

The solar shower appeals to me - but comparative purchase price, ease of installation/removal, hot water in Chiang Rai winters?

The gas shower being suggested was a chinese made one, and would be fed from a butane cylinder (like the ones used for stoves).

The warning about fitting to a mixer tap is contrary to the Homepro chap who demonstrated the thing in their Chiang Mai Carrefour shop. These electric showers seem to be ubiquitous, so how dangerous are they in practice and how hard is it to get them safely installed?

Like I said before, I think you will find that the unit connected to the tap in Homepro was an electric water heater NOT an electric shower.They look very similar.

Electric showers in the UK are about 8.4Kw and they cope with the British winter, so anything around the same rating should be fine in Chaing Mai.

I would steer clear of the gas option.

[lotus eater]

jaiyenyen, i think you're right. the homepro demonstration was probably on a water heater. however if the water going in was warmer than the chiang rai winter temperature then the demonstration was not adequate proof. also the wattage quoted for england seems higher than the max available in thailand (per guyham). would your preference for electric therefore be based on the safety aspect - ie risk of carbon monoxide vs. faulty electric wiring?

guyham, you've pretty much convinced me - especially when i consider chownah's actual chiang rai experience of having had to switch from electric to gas for hotter water and no interference with electricity supply to other appliances.

i'll take the safety factor of the two systems - monoxide or electrocution - as cancelling out each other.

proper installation seems essential for both and i'm hoping to get that from a reputable shop - homemart.

which leaves cost & eventual uninstallation (if i buy an expensive system) aspects - before a final decision.

[jaiyenyen]

Hi

All the points that have been raised so far are very valid. I was a heating engineer in the UK and registered to work with gas, that is why I am more sesative to it's potential problems.

I have never lived in Chaing Mai so have no experience of how cold it can get in the winter.

One other thing to look for maybe, is the ratio of electric showers available in Homepro etc, as opposed to gas showers. This will give an indication as to how popular they are.

Regards

Jaiyenyen