Buddhist Cockroach Cleaner

[camerata]

Here's a nice home-made design for a trap that collects cockroaches without killing them. It's made from a small vacuum cleaner and some tubing:

There's a larger photo here.

[wileycoyote]

Clever,a bit Heath-Robinson but good idea

Wiley Coyote

[chownah]

After you have caught them what do you do with them?

[Grover]

release them as far from human habitation as conveniently possible, presumably.

[camerata]

release them as far from human habitation as conveniently possible, presumably.

Exactly.

[cm das]

For years I've just used a clear plastic cup & a magazine or piece of cardboard. You trap the cockroach (or bee or whatever) under the cup, then slide the cardboard under the rim of the cup. Holding the cup & cardboard in place, walk outside, lift up the cardboard & let the insect loose. Same effect as the above solution.

[chownah]

Cockroaches don't really do any harm do they? Isn't going to all this trouble to remove them a form of aversion.....and isn't aversion a form of attachment?....and doesn't the Buddha teach to eliminate attachments and thus aversions as well? So wouldn't it be more appropriate for a Buddhist forum to show a clever way to capture your attachments and remove them to some spot as far from human habitation as possible?......

Chownah

[cm das]

Cockroaches don't really do any harm do they? Isn't going to all this trouble to remove them a form of aversion.....and isn't aversion a form of attachment?....and doesn't the Buddha teach to eliminate attachments and thus aversions as well? So wouldn't it be more appropriate for a Buddhist forum to show a clever way to capture your attachments and remove them to some spot as far from human habitation as possible?......

Chownah

Good point. I have 2 responses. First, I don't care much about cockroaches. In fact, I'm content to let them crawl around the corners of my room. But my girlfriend doesn't like them & once I showed her how to get rid of them without killing them, she took on that job. I just watch and assist (open the door, something like that).

Second, this raises a fundamental issue about our approach to Buddhist practice. The question is, with what urgency must we proceed ridding ourselves of all attachments, be they positive or negative. I believe that the goal of freedom from attachment should certainly be kept in mind, but on a practical level can we really expect ourselves to drop all attachments immediately and fully? And if not, should we consider ourselves lacking , inadequate or somehow inappropriate? My own view, based on my experience, is that it's important to have awareness of our own motivations and attachments but also to have compassion for ourselves and a degree of patience as well. The trick is to not let that compassion turn into complacency. And that's a very personal effort. In the meantime, as we diligently work to extricate ourselves from attachment and suffering, what's the harm in trying to minimize the destructive effects of our remaining attachments?

I used to have this discussion with my ex all the time. She would point out how I failed to measure up to Buddhist principles. My response was that I'm Buddhist, but I'm not a Buddha.

[Grover]

Cockroaches don't really do any harm do they?

there are allergens in the faeces

[Grover]

Keeps your house clean and most of these types of problems are nipped in the bud.

[chownah]

Cockroaches don't really do any harm do they? Isn't going to all this trouble to remove them a form of aversion.....and isn't aversion a form of attachment?....and doesn't the Buddha teach to eliminate attachments and thus aversions as well? So wouldn't it be more appropriate for a Buddhist forum to show a clever way to capture your attachments and remove them to some spot as far from human habitation as possible?......

Chownah

Good point. I have 2 responses. First, I don't care much about cockroaches. In fact, I'm content to let them crawl around the corners of my room. But my girlfriend doesn't like them & once I showed her how to get rid of them without killing them, she took on that job. I just watch and assist (open the door, something like that).

Second, this raises a fundamental issue about our approach to Buddhist practice. The question is, with what urgency must we proceed ridding ourselves of all attachments, be they positive or negative. I believe that the goal of freedom from attachment should certainly be kept in mind, but on a practical level can we really expect ourselves to drop all attachments immediately and fully? And if not, should we consider ourselves lacking , inadequate or somehow inappropriate? My own view, based on my experience, is that it's important to have awareness of our own motivations and attachments but also to have compassion for ourselves and a degree of patience as well. The trick is to not let that compassion turn into complacency. And that's a very personal effort. In the meantime, as we diligently work to extricate ourselves from attachment and suffering, what's the harm in trying to minimize the destructive effects of our remaining attachments?

I used to have this discussion with my ex all the time. She would point out how I failed to measure up to Buddhist principles. My response was that I'm Buddhist, but I'm not a Buddha.

Cmdas,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I agree completely that if we are to indulge in our aversion to cockroaches it is best if we eliminate killing as the method of indulgence....removal is a much better indulgence, both for us and the cockroaches.

Chownah

[camerata]

there are allergens in the faeces

They are a major cause of asthma in Thai children these days.

[chownah]

Absolutely if you or any of your household have asthma then you should clean all dust up regularly to help in reducing and preventing asthma attacks. The cleaning up of all dust regularly will be adequate to remove the alergins from cockroaches. Also, eliminating hiding places and keeping all food and food scraps in closed containers will also help to reduce or eliminate the cockroaches. If you or members of your household have asthma then using the device shown in the OP could cause problems by putting the alergins into the air and spreading them everywhere....if you find you must use this device then be sure it has a filter capable of removing the alergin particles (HEPA filters might work) and also the allergic person should probably leave the room while it is being operated.

For the vast majority of us, however, cockroaches are more an insult to our aesthetics than to our health.

Chownah

Edited October 7, 2007 by chownah

[Grover]

If you or members of your household have asthma then using the device shown in the OP could cause problems by putting the alergins into the air and spreading them everywhere....

How ? The allergens are in the faeces, not the cockroach (which is the thing being sucked up).

[chownah]

If you or members of your household have asthma then using the device shown in the OP could cause problems by putting the alergins into the air and spreading them everywhere....

How ? The allergens are in the faeces, not the cockroach (which is the thing being sucked up).

Hard to suck up a bug and not get some dust too....what if the poor frightened creature should void its bowels while being captured? It is common wisdom that vacuums in general disperse allergins into the air unless they have the proper filters...even if no cockroaches are present. Are you saying that if there is a known asthma sufferer in the room that you should run vacuum without an adequate filter to suck up cockroaches to capture them?....the usual wisdom is that if there is an asthma user in the room then you should not run any vacuum....but maybe you are right and it doesn't matter....now we're having fun, aren't we, Grover?

Chownah

Edited October 8, 2007 by chownah

[Grover]

If you or members of your household have asthma then using the device shown in the OP could cause problems by putting the alergins into the air and spreading them everywhere....

How ? The allergens are in the faeces, not the cockroach (which is the thing being sucked up).

Hard to suck up a bug and not get some dust too....what if the poor frightened creature should void its bowels while being captured? It is common wisdom that vacuums in general disperse allergins into the air unless they have the proper filters...even if no cockroaches are present. Are you saying that if there is a known asthma sufferer in the room that you should run vacuum without an adequate filter to suck up cockroaches to capture them?....the usual wisdom is that if there is an asthma user in the room then you should not run any vacuum....but maybe you are right and it doesn't matter....now we're having fun, aren't we, Grover?

Chownah

fun? dont know about that, ....but your way of thinking certainly reminds me of my brother when he was young. He derived extreme pleasure from acting as the doubting thomas.

I think you have an aversion to vacuum cleaners.

[chownah]

If you or members of your household have asthma then using the device shown in the OP could cause problems by putting the alergins into the air and spreading them everywhere....

How ? The allergens are in the faeces, not the cockroach (which is the thing being sucked up).

Hard to suck up a bug and not get some dust too....what if the poor frightened creature should void its bowels while being captured? It is common wisdom that vacuums in general disperse allergins into the air unless they have the proper filters...even if no cockroaches are present. Are you saying that if there is a known asthma sufferer in the room that you should run vacuum without an adequate filter to suck up cockroaches to capture them?....the usual wisdom is that if there is an asthma user in the room then you should not run any vacuum....but maybe you are right and it doesn't matter....now we're having fun, aren't we, Grover?

Chownah

fun? dont know about that, ....but your way of thinking certainly reminds me of my brother when he was young. He derived extreme pleasure from acting as the doubting thomas.

I think you have an aversion to vacuum cleaners.

You think I am a doubting Thomas???.....what is it that I am doubting?...I must be missing somthing...let me recap what my offerings have been in this thread:

1. Most people want to eliminate cockroaches because of aversion and aversion is a type of attachment.

2. For a small percentage of the population with asthma it is important to clean up dust regularly and this regular cleaning will eliminate cockroach created allergins.

3. Using vacuum cleaners spreads allergins of all types unless it uses proper filters.

4. When using a vacuum cleaner devise to catch cockroaches there is a danger of dispersing allergins unless the vacuum cleaner is fitted with the proper kind of filter.

5. It is best to not run a vacuum cleaner if there is an asthmatic person in the room.

What am I doubting? Do you take issue with any of these? Did I make other assertions which I have not listed here which you take issue with?

I have no aversion to vacuum cleaners...in fact I have one.

What's up?

Chownah

[camerata]

The point about the cockroach cleaner is that not all people in a house may be averse to stomping on cockroaches. If we can collect them and put them outside they won't get stomped on. And they are notoriously difficult to catch without a contraption like this.

[jazzbo]

This is my Buddhist cockroach (usually ant) killer. At BigC they have about 3 meters linear floor to ceiling of various bug killers. As 90+% of the population in Thailand is Buddhist, barring any statistical anomaly, 90+% of the bug stuff is bought by Buddhists... BigC and JWax probably have the demographc data down to the SKU...

And I am sure CocaCola(Thailand) knows exactly how many green bottles of Sprite are left opened at the various offerings each morning -- the Buddha's obvious choice in soft drinks makes him happy for the day.

[camerata]

We're talking about how those practising Dhamma can keep cockroaches alive, not kill them. So let's stay on topic.

[Grover]

You think I am a doubting Thomas???.....

I believe you have often exhibited qualities of a doubting Thomas on this forum (not that there is anything wrong with that).....

and yes, my mistake - you havnt been one in this thread.

let me recap what my offerings have been in this thread:

1. Most people want to eliminate cockroaches because of aversion and aversion is a type of attachment.

2. For a small percentage of the population with asthma it is important to clean up dust regularly and this regular cleaning will eliminate cockroach created allergins.

3. Using vacuum cleaners spreads allergins of all types unless it uses proper filters.

4. When using a vacuum cleaner devise to catch cockroaches there is a danger of dispersing allergins unless the vacuum cleaner is fitted with the proper kind of filter.

5. It is best to not run a vacuum cleaner if there is an asthmatic person in the room.

Do you take issue with any of these?

Chownah, this line of discussion has gone so comically off topic, I'd prefer to just leave it

Another time and place maybe.

[geriatrickid]

Question: Let's say you took these roaches and in turn fed them to your local community of geckos, frogs, toads etc. Would that be wrong? It's part of the life cycle, right?

One could easily argue that dumping the roaches elsewhere is just as bad as killing them. Think about it for a sec. You could be dumping into an area that was cockroach free thereby disrupting the local ecosystem or they could be placed in a hostile environment where they would soon die or they could cause an infestation for someone else.

These procedures are curious because they can end up doing more harm than good despite the good intent.

I don't kill the spiders or beetles that visit me since I know the good they do. Like many of you do, they get gently placed outside, but disease vectors, I draw the line at.

But I have to admit, I rather admire the kindness intended. It has made me thing about some things, as to why I am nice to some bugs and not others. Conditioning I guess.

[Grover]

Question: Let's say you took these roaches and in turn fed them to your local community of geckos, frogs, toads etc. Would that be wrong? It's part of the life cycle, right?

One could easily argue that dumping the roaches elsewhere is just as bad as killing them. Think about it for a sec. You could be dumping into an area that was cockroach free thereby disrupting the local ecosystem or they could be placed in a hostile environment where they would soon die or they could cause an infestation for someone else.

These procedures are curious because they can end up doing more harm than good despite the good intent.

I don't kill the spiders or beetles that visit me since I know the good they do. Like many of you do, they get gently placed outside, but disease vectors, I draw the line at.

But I have to admit, I rather admire the kindness intended. It has made me thing about some things, as to why I am nice to some bugs and not others. Conditioning I guess.

I think when you release them you should do it with some metta (loving-kindness). So feeding them to toads or releasing them out the window of a car on a busy road would be counter productive for the metta and the life you are trying to preserve.

[geriatrickid]

Grover, thanks for giving me a clear explanation. Once again I learn something useful.

[gonzobrains]

Question: Let's say you took these roaches and in turn fed them to your local community of geckos, frogs, toads etc. Would that be wrong? It's part of the life cycle, right?

One could easily argue that dumping the roaches elsewhere is just as bad as killing them. Think about it for a sec. You could be dumping into an area that was cockroach free thereby disrupting the local ecosystem or they could be placed in a hostile environment where they would soon die or they could cause an infestation for someone else.

These procedures are curious because they can end up doing more harm than good despite the good intent.

I don't kill the spiders or beetles that visit me since I know the good they do. Like many of you do, they get gently placed outside, but disease vectors, I draw the line at.

But I have to admit, I rather admire the kindness intended. It has made me thing about some things, as to why I am nice to some bugs and not others. Conditioning I guess.

I think when you release them you should do it with some metta (loving-kindness). So feeding them to toads or releasing them out the window of a car on a busy road would be counter productive for the metta and the life you are trying to preserve.

Just flush them down the toilet. Many of them come up the drain pipes so what's wrong with sending them back down? bahaha.

[gonzobrains]

release them as far from human habitation as conveniently possible, presumably.

that's what the US Army did to the Native Americans 150 years or so ago. bahaha.

i guess relocation is just as bad as killing something if the relocation proves detrimental.