American Man Falls To His Death From 12th-floor Condo

[Pundi64]

humm...looks a little suspicious to me. i think there should be a law that any farang who who shacks-up with a thai girl cannot rent/buy an apartment/condo higher than the 1st floor of any building

nice to read that the "flying foreigner" phenomenon is not limited to my little town of pattaya

LOL good thought-

[leemond]

He may have overdosed on Heroes Season 2.

[kmart]

One thing I have observed which is quite obvious is that stupid people very rarely kill themselves.

Ironic fact of life.

[sriracha john]

125 posts based on a 5 sentence OP = 25 posts per sentence. That's efficiency reporting.

[Dakhar]

Let me ponder for a moment....

Would I at 58 years of age, toss myself off of a 12 floor balcony, as my godess of a girfriend, 30 years my younger, hotter than any girl I ever knew in highschool, slept? Seems to me I would have every reason to live for!

[Dakhar]

These people are in a delightful tropical paradise livig the dream, but can't understand that their 20 year old girlfriend doesn't really love them at 70 years old or whatever, and they say that wisdom comes with age, I know dozens of teengers that would be able to spot the problem with a 70 year old guy going out with a 20 year old girl in an instant.

What a load of rubbish and i'm not being drawn in to a pointless argument with you on a thread about someone dying in such a sad fashion.

DENIAL

[qualtrough]

Let me ponder for a moment....

Would I at 58 years of age, toss myself off of a 12 floor balcony, as my godess of a girfriend, 30 years my younger, hotter than any girl I ever knew in highschool, slept? Seems to me I would have every reason to live for!

Not very imaginative. Suppose the goddess had suddenly turned cold, had a boyfriend, wanted more than you could provide, etc. and .etc. Or imagine that there were other deep problems outside that relationship that we have no clue about.

People kill themselves for any number of reasons, and often even their closest loved ones have no idea why. I had an uncle who was a successful man, very gregarious and cheerful, who one day up and killed himself with a shotgun. No question that he did, he was seen at the hardware store buying shells, it was his gun, and he excused himself from work to find a place to do it. He left no note, and to this day no one has any idea what was bothering him. Sad to say, but that happens more often then you would think.

Before indulging in all these murder conspiracies some forum members should do a little research on the subject. They might also be surprised that some of the methods they think are weird or an indication of third-party involvement (e.g. plastic bag over the head, restrained, etc.) are quite common and can even be found as recommended methods on Web sites providing advice on how to do it. I am not saying that there has never been a case in Thailand or elsewhere where a murder has been mistaken for suicide, but I have seen nothing in the news over the years to suggest that these farangs are murder victims.

[TAWP]

She turned cold and wanted more? Yes, I'm sure there is no other woman in the world...

If some of us can have too many even an old git with money should be able to have a few.

[qualtrough]

She turned cold and wanted more? Yes, I'm sure there is no other woman in the world...

If some of us can have too many even an old git with money should be able to have a few.

I imagine it might be a surprise to you, but many men do not regard women as a fungible commodity.

[TAWP]

Nice way to purposely misunderstand the point of the post. Are you a journalist?

[qualtrough]

Nice way to purposely misunderstand the point of the post. Are you a journalist?

No. Totally understood your post. Look up the word 'fungible' and get back to me.

[qualtrough]

Nice way to purposely misunderstand the point of the post. Are you a journalist?

No. Totally understood your post. Look up the word 'fungible' and get back to me.

TAWP, I will save you some time and provide a definition for fungible here:

Fungible: When two or more things are inter-changeable, can be substituted for each other, or are of equal value, they are described as fungible.

Now let's revisit your original post that you accuse me of purposely misunderstanding:

She turned cold and wanted more? Yes, I'm sure there is no other woman in the world...

If some of us can have too many even an old git with money should be able to have a few.

If you meant something other than that women are in plentiful supply and that with a little money anyone can 'have' one please explain it to me, because you surely did not do a good job of doing that the first time around. My use of the word 'fungible' is in perfect, 100% alignment with the sentiment you expressed--that any woman can be replaced by another.

Edited October 12, 2007 by qualtrough

[TAWP]

Wow, one born every day.

[qualtrough]

Wow, one born every day.

Thanks for the well-reasoned and detailed argument supporting your accusation that I purposely misunderstood your post. You are a very persuasive fellow!

[TAWP]

If you really think it's any point to debate something with you since you already have decided that you should explain to me what my own point was in the post, then you are sadly mistaken.

Have a good day.

[meemiathai]

Let me ponder for a moment....

Would I at 58 years of age, toss myself off of a 12 floor balcony, as my godess of a girfriend, 30 years my younger, hotter than any girl I ever knew in highschool, slept? Seems to me I would have every reason to live for!

Have you ever talked to anyone that later killed themselves? Is living a life that simplistic like the way you put it? Have you ever done any studies on why people commit suicides?

I can think of at least 2 people I knew who killed themselves and no one ever understood why.

Of course there could always be a chance of homicide but please stop accusing everytime people's spouses as murder. People who commit suicides are usually capable of thinking more complicatedly than the average Joe that posts here so it is unlikely that you guys could grasp the reason behind.

[Jingthing]

Why would anyone reading the information we have assume it is a suicide or a murder? A guy died violently. We only have the word of one person that it was suicide. Not good enough to conclude anything either way.

[qualtrough]

If you really think it's any point to debate something with you since you already have decided that you should explain to me what my own point was in the post, then you are sadly mistaken.

Have a good day.

TAWP, you accused me of 'purposely misunderstanding' your post. I explained how I understood it, and asked you to explain how my interpretation was mistaken. You have refused to do so, so it is pretty obvious that I understood the meaning of your post loud and clear. Case closed. Qualtrough: 1 TAWP: 0 Advantage: Qualtrough

[qualtrough]

Let's assume that the nutters are right and that a good portion of the jumpers here were pushed to their deaths. Now we all know that no criminal is ever even close to 100% successful. There is a great overlap between the nutters and the "Thais are hopeless" crowd, so surely they would have to admit that the failure rate might be very high. So, if this 'stage suicide by pushing off balcony" assumption is correct, there must be more than a few cases over the years of people failing in their attempt to do that. Now surely those escaping such attempts would have reported it to the police and it would have been reported in the news. Not every time, but given the large number of jumpers here there must be a few such cases. Can anyone here provide a newspaper or police report of such an event here, something on the order of, "Mr. Smith, a UK resident in Pattaya, reported to police yesterday that two Thai men entered his apartment, lured him to his balcony, and then attempted to throw him off in order to make it look like a suicide. Fortunately he was able to fend off his attackers and escape. Police are now looking for..."

Didn't think so...

Edited October 12, 2007 by qualtrough

[sonnyJ]

Why there are so many references to age differences? How would it relate to anything? Do we have some facts?

I find it distasteful. And believe me, I'm pretty open minded guy.

[tso310]

Meanwhile back in the UK

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/7033150.stm

[tropiccapricorn]

She turned cold and wanted more? Yes, I'm sure there is no other woman in the world...

ok

But what could have happened if he had suddeny turned cold?

[TAWP]

If you really think it's any point to debate something with you since you already have decided that you should explain to me what my own point was in the post, then you are sadly mistaken.

Have a good day.

TAWP, you accused me of 'purposely misunderstanding' your post. I explained how I understood it, and asked you to explain how my interpretation was mistaken. You have refused to do so, so it is pretty obvious that I understood the meaning of your post loud and clear. Case closed. Qualtrough: 1 TAWP: 0 Advantage: Qualtrough

Yes, I know you are a troll of little value, but a post saying

No. Totally understood your post. Look up the word 'fungible' and get back to me.

isn't an invitation to explain anything.

We can continue this when you have grown up.

[qualtrough]

Yes, I know you are a troll of little value [snip] We can continue this when you have grown up.

Ah, an argumentum ad hominem, classic!

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

[Dakhar]

Let me ponder for a moment....

Would I at 58 years of age, toss myself off of a 12 floor balcony, as my godess of a girfriend, 30 years my younger, hotter than any girl I ever knew in highschool, slept? Seems to me I would have every reason to live for!

Have you ever talked to anyone that later killed themselves? Is living a life that simplistic like the way you put it? Have you ever done any studies on why people commit suicides?

I can think of at least 2 people I knew who killed themselves and no one ever understood why.

Of course there could always be a chance of homicide but please stop accusing everytime people's spouses as murder. People who commit suicides are usually capable of thinking more complicatedly than the average Joe that posts here so it is unlikely that you guys could grasp the reason behind.

Have I ever spoken to someone that latter killed themself. Yes. Have I ever done any studies? Nope, not within my scope of practice, and frankly not even within my interest. Please stop accussing..... Never did I acuse, I pondered on how I would feel at 58 with a woman 30 yrs my younger in my bed..... Maybe life is that simplistic to me.... kind of like accepting the laws of gravity, rather than testing them.

Another theory, fellow revieved his blood test results via e-mail .... positive.... so he figures life is over, he jumps.... just a theory, nothing more.

I'm Pos......

rathther than I'm powerful

as stretch but so is Im powerful etc.

[jackspratt]

Why would anyone reading the information we have assume it is a suicide or a murder? A guy died violently. We only have the word of one person that it was suicide. Not good enough to conclude anything either way.

Now you really have me confused Jing. Back at post #12 (yours) she was, and should be, the prime suspect.

Suspected of what?

[tijnebijn]

No matter how or what , I feel for the guy , RIP .

Maybe it good be suspicious , or maybe the guy was allready at his long end , I do not know .

So far nobody actually knew the guy , so some respect would not be on the wrong place .

[brahmburgers]

Much more to be learned before murder or suicide can be determined. Police should consider the lady a suspect. Unfortunately for the lady, that's just the way things are in an investigation. Nothing racial or unusual. She was the last one to see him alive. Assuming the police do investigate and they may not they should as in all investigations look for mom. Motive, opportunity, means. As of now we know of no motive. She was there when he "fell" so opportunity is a given. Means is unknown until it can be determined that she had the strength to overpower and lift him over the railing or had an accomplice. Should be a pretty straight forward investigation if the police even bother. The effort put in may well depend on how much "incentive" is offered by the family of the deceased.

Guess we will just have to wait for more to come to any conclusion.

This post is several days old and it's unfortunate there don't seem to be added info. Are there no posters who knew this guy or the couple? Have the cops made no new statements?

I believe the cops are generally biased toward trying to sweep such things under the table. Certainly it does no good for Thailand's image as being a tourist's dream destination. Plus, in a superstitious society that deeply believes in karma, the Thai concensus would be to "get this sordid business behind us, and go on with life. It was all meant to be, so it doesn't matter what really happened"

An adept farang detective would ask tough, perhaps uncomfortable questions, to all directly or indirectly involved. A Thai investigator wouldn't. An adept farang investigator would probe low and high for interesting clues. A Thai investigator would do a cursory look around, perhaps a two minute interview with the guy's lady-friend, and figure that's all that needs to be done. My post may sound racially whatever, but there are too many under-investigated cases in Thailand of farang dying under questionable circumstances. I could describe at least a dozen just off the top of my head, where investigations fizzled soon after they started.

Case in point: two able-bodied farang were found in their underwear, having been dragged from upstairs where they were (apparently) doing drugs. When found, one had an arm over the other. The deaths were attributed to overly spicy food and their Thai wives were conveninetly elsewhere in town (read: alibi) when the crime purportedly took place. There were clues strewn all over the place (blood on the stairs, etc) but the case was closed while the bodies were still warm.

[brahmburgers]

as for whether a Thai woman has the means to push a grown man over a railing. First I'd like to know what type and what height the railing is from floor.

However, it would not take a Sara Conner (From the Terminator) to do it. She could be standing next to him (having called him over, or whatever) and say, "look down there, is that your friend?" or "darling, my watch just fell off the railing, do you see it down there?" As he's straining and bending over to see, ......pow - one quick and dynamic move.......

I'm not trying to prove she did, instead simply stating that it would not be tough to do.

[farang prince]

Thank God that when I was a homicide detective in the USA, I didn't have any partners like some of these posters. There is no room for mindless speculation in a homicide investigation. You go where the evidence leads you. If you have no evidence, you have no case. I'd love to see some of the posters on TV go into court and try to testify to their "theories." Trust me, you would have a tough time trying to walk out of court after getting reamed by the judge and the defense attorneys.

Now, in this particular case that everyone is abuzz about...the investigation is two-pronged. The Medical Examiner will need to inspect the body for signs of trauma not associated with the fall. And toxicology tests should be undertaken to determine if there were drugs or high quantities of alcohol in the system. The Royal Thai Police should closely examine the scene to determine if there were signs of a struggle. And since the wife indicated her husband was reading emails before his death, they should gain a Permission to Search Affidavit from the widow so they can legally review these emails to determine if there is anything to indicate a state of mind before his fall. If there is still a question about whether this is a suicide or homicide (called Suspicious Death), the investigators should interview neighbors to determine if they heard anything on the night of the death or if there was a history of domestic disputes. If the death continues to be questionable, then detectives should conduct a thorough interrogation of the wife (you always begin a homicide investigation by interviewing the person(s) who was (were) last with the victim and then expand the investigation to those individuals who had an ongoing relationship with the victim).

At each step in the investigatory process, you have to "clear" potential suspects before moving on to other potential suspects. This means that the detective is satisified through evidence and/or alibies that the suspect could not possibly have committed the crime (it does not mean that they might not have been involved in a conspiracy to commit the crime). It is called working a case from the inside out. Within a reasonable amount of time, there has to be a meshing of forensic evidence and investigatory evidence in order to make a determination that the death was the result of suicide or to establish probable cause to file charges against a suspect. While there is no statute of limitations involving a death, the grim reality of the police business is that if you can't close a case within a few weeks it will move on to the Cold Case Unit because there will be other newer homicides that will require your attention.

One last thing. Some poster wondered why Thailand had so many jumper cases. My guess is that is a direct result of many farangs not owning firearms in LOS. In the USA, the most popular form of suicide for men in my personal experience is the use of a firearm. The second most likely method is an overdose of alcohol and/or drugs. Third is hanging. Fourth is cutting one's wrists or arteries. Fifth are jumping cases. Sixth is asphyxiation from carbon monoxide from a vehicle.

By the way, I investigated more than 150 suicides before I retired.

Edited October 12, 2007 by farang prince