Architects On The Take

[ProjectSupplies]

As a project supply company throughout Thailand this is an issue we contend with every week.

Although I obviously cannot name names here on the forum after todays experience I really must vent my anger and disgust to the extent they will go to prohibit fair competition.

I personally have been in negotiation with the owner of a condominium development . He has viewed our company , our product , been given information on how we work , what to expect and how we would handle his project through from order to completion.

He has concluded after reveiwing our company , our work ethics , our standards of workmanship , our service capabilities , our product range and service to ask for us to prepare a quotation for the proposed work.

A few days ago he furnished me with a copy of the floor/elevation plans of the condominium and asked we look it over and provide some figures.

After doing so it was apparent that the plans designed by the architect were not complete / details were missing / designs were not practical / overspecification in glass ( the whole project was laminated glass ,absolutley not required)

To point out laminate glass is approx 1000THB m2 and 6mm Float approx 300THB m2. Over several thousand m2 this makes a significant cost implication.

Anyway,

He informed me that our company may contact his architect to clarify these matters.

One of my more experienced members of staff did so yesterday and was told that the architect concerned would call back later.

This he did not, I then asked for my staff to call again today ( as the client is wanting his quote before the weekend ). This he did in my presence and I happened to hear the converstaion.

Although my Thai is limited I certainly understand the "jist" of a conversation and this certainly did not seem "normal".

I asked after what the architect had said to my staff ,his reply was....

The architect says his plans are correct , there are no mistakes , and how dare we as a window supplier question him,as an architect !!

My staff 100% were polite , curtious at all times throughout the call.

He finished the conversation before abrubtly slamming the phone down by saying " be carefull , I am an architect and I choose who will supply the windows on this contract !"

At this point I called the Owner of the project to explain the situation and that would he please contact his architect to discuss releasing the correct plans to us.

I was then informed that the architect had infact found a supplier of the preffered window system and had given the owner a quotation from them !!!! .......... mmmmmmm NOW I WONDER .................. Why would an architect be so obnoxious / arragant / and evasive about giving out schedules to companies , yet be able to provide the owner with a quote from a supplier he "reccommends" ?

I as a person and we as a company by no means expect all of our potential contracts to be awarded to ourselves. I beleive that competition is a good thing.It keeps us on our toes , keeps potential customers aware of our systems and stimulates the marketplace.

The reason why the architect can supply the owner a detailed quotation of the propsed window system from a "reccommended" company , but be unable to supply ourselves with a schedule I will leave with you.

I certainly understand why , but will not write on here.

To lose a possible contract to fair competition is of course acceptable , and only serves to help our company to improve for the future.

[Mobi]

Part and parcel of doing business in LOS, which you are no doubt fully aware of, and it ain't about to change any time soon.

Not to be recommended for folk with low stress levels or high blood pressure.

[qualtrough]

Not unusual here. I once had a conversation with a friend who was a professor at Chula. He was telling me about their plans to redo their offices, etc. All furniture was to be supplied by a company owned by the professor heading the department.

[MrSquigle]

Send the company wanting the quote what you expect the cost to be. Then leave it in their hands to come to a conclusion as to how much he is being over charged.

[quiksilva]

Ask the owner for a copy of the other quote and see if you can match or beat it. At the end of the day, its in the owner's interest to agree.

[ProjectSupplies]

As mentioned , this is something we have been dealing with for several years so are fully aware of it being common practice .

It was to the extent he was prepared to go . More often than not we go through the motions of providing a quote ,unfortunately knowing the probable outcome anyway.

People ask me all time .. why don't you do the same ?

Well maybe in Thailand we should , but just because it is classed the norm , does that mean its right ? I think not.

I personally as the owner will not allow any staff to do this . I just cannot allow my buisisness to operate this way.

The outcome of this .......

I have collected the correct information from the owner himself earlier this afternoon.

Now I am aware of the company we are against .

With an increase in their cost for the brown envelope I am completely confident on this occasion that doing buisiness in an honest and normal manner will prove to be correct.

Doing honest buisiness does sometimes pay-off !!

As one of our statements clearly states " DEAL - DIRECT " it will save you money !!

The general point of the posting really was to highlight to all potential house builders , that no matter how much you trust your architect / builders pricing and how reasonable it may seem . Always Always do a little shopping yourself, whatever its for .

If your happy with their costs and dont want the hassle yourself and are prepared to pay the increases for the back handers , that is of course your choice and I may admit in some cases its just easier for you.

It just gets my goat sometimes.

[singa-traz]

It's an injustice.

[PadThaiGuy]

As a project supply company throughout Thailand this is an issue we contend with every week.

Although I obviously cannot name names here on the forum after todays experience I really must vent my anger and disgust to the extent they will go to prohibit fair competition.

I personally have been in negotiation with the owner of a condominium development . He has viewed our company , our product , been given information on how we work , what to expect and how we would handle his project through from order to completion.

He has concluded after reveiwing our company , our work ethics , our standards of workmanship , our service capabilities , our product range and service to ask for us to prepare a quotation for the proposed work.

A few days ago he furnished me with a copy of the floor/elevation plans of the condominium and asked we look it over and provide some figures.

After doing so it was apparent that the plans designed by the architect were not complete / details were missing / designs were not practical / overspecification in glass ( the whole project was laminated glass ,absolutley not required)

To point out laminate glass is approx 1000THB m2 and 6mm Float approx 300THB m2. Over several thousand m2 this makes a significant cost implication.

Anyway,

He informed me that our company may contact his architect to clarify these matters.

One of my more experienced members of staff did so yesterday and was told that the architect concerned would call back later.

This he did not, I then asked for my staff to call again today ( as the client is wanting his quote before the weekend ). This he did in my presence and I happened to hear the converstaion.

Although my Thai is limited I certainly understand the "jist" of a conversation and this certainly did not seem "normal".

I asked after what the architect had said to my staff ,his reply was....

The architect says his plans are correct , there are no mistakes , and how dare we as a window supplier question him,as an architect !!

My staff 100% were polite , curtious at all times throughout the call.

He finished the conversation before abrubtly slamming the phone down by saying " be carefull , I am an architect and I choose who will supply the windows on this contract !"

At this point I called the Owner of the project to explain the situation and that would he please contact his architect to discuss releasing the correct plans to us.

I was then informed that the architect had infact found a supplier of the preffered window system and had given the owner a quotation from them !!!! .......... mmmmmmm NOW I WONDER .................. Why would an architect be so obnoxious / arragant / and evasive about giving out schedules to companies , yet be able to provide the owner with a quote from a supplier he "reccommends" ?

I as a person and we as a company by no means expect all of our potential contracts to be awarded to ourselves. I beleive that competition is a good thing.It keeps us on our toes , keeps potential customers aware of our systems and stimulates the marketplace.

The reason why the architect can supply the owner a detailed quotation of the propsed window system from a "reccommended" company , but be unable to supply ourselves with a schedule I will leave with you.

I certainly understand why , but will not write on here.

To lose a possible contract to fair competition is of course acceptable , and only serves to help our company to improve for the future.

Welcome to Thailand...Now bend over please.

[tjo o tjim]

Welcome to the world, actually! This stuff happens all over. Suppliers blame architects, architects blame contractors, contractors blame suppliers.

All you can do is quote per spec, be clear on unit rates, and hope things come out well for yourself...

[qualtrough]

If you offer good service, good value for money, etc. and are a straight shooter the word will get around. You might still lost contracts due to the shenanigans you mentioned, but you will probably make up for that in business that comes to you because of your reputation.