a99az Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 REAL FREEDOM I have for many years considered travel documents such as passports and visa's to be degrading. Why should anyone on Earth need permission to travel and live where one chooses? I believe that restrictions passports and visa's impose are the cause of much misery, poverty, sickness, exploitation of people and the death of thousands every year directly and indirectly. Everyone should be able to travel freely to any place they wish to go to and be able to stay for as long as they want and compete in the market place for work. It would put an immediate stop to people smuggling, slavery, stop companies from locating to third world countries to take advantage of cheep labour and would allow for a better distribution of wealth. Countries that oppress their people would no longer be able to rule with fear and would have instead to woo people to their country with great offers of peace and prosperity. Indeed the benefits would far outweigh any disadvantages that I can see. The terrorist might also become a thing of the past who knows. Many of the arguments that I have had are simply raciest and some think that it would in some way take away their national identity, others simply don't want to compete for work. It is interesting to note that before World War I, passports were not widely used for international travel, and in most areas, few people had one. According to the website for Passport Canada, "The rising popularity of rail travel in the mid-19th century led to an explosion of tourism throughout Europe and caused a complete breakdown in the European passport and visa system. In answer to this crisis, France abolished passports and visas in 1861. Other European countries followed suit, and by 1914, passport requirements had been eliminated practically everywhere in Europe. Crossing a border was usually very easy, and no supporting documentation or declarations were required. However, internal passports were commonly required for travel within a handful of countries, including the Ottoman Empire andTsarist Russia where they were commonly held documents". Sounds like an early form of European Community to me. If indeed we did all have a common ancestor that walked out of Africa about 2000 generations ago (all achieved without a passport) then we are all black under the skin and family, should we not strive to reunite as one family the family of man. BY GRAHAM NASH Oct 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tijnebijn Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Its a fact . We all live on one planet , we humans make a big mess of everything . In the world of today we live in we created terrorists etc , immigrants looking for better lives . I think people all over the world are xenophobic , scared to loose roots , culture and the scare of internal problems , because of a not fair attitude to our fellow beings (greed) . Of course it would be great to have open borders , but probably not in the world we live in today. We should first come to our senses , like one world peace army , no military per country . Would we ever see this in our lifetime ? surely not . Perhaps that the global warming , if it does occur , will bring us more together .(maybe thats why it is happening) Lets hope for the best . Nice article OP , but I am not sure what kind of responses you will get further on this topic . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Can you accept if everyone has a key to your house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 Can you accept if everyone has a key to your house? Why should I want to give everyone the key to my house? Try to read the topic again as I think you may be replying to somthing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowthai Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 wealth and economics would act as defacto passports anyway.someone from the us or europe or japan has the money to travel to africa for safari adventures but a bushman from africa can't afford to see paris or disney world.plus those in the rich countries would more than protest having their southern hemisphere friends moving into their neighborhoods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 wealth and economics would act as defacto passports anyway.someone from the us or europe or japan has the money to travel to africa for safari adventures but a bushman from africa can't afford to see paris or disney world.plus those in the rich countries would more than protest having their southern hemisphere friends moving into their neighborhoods. The bush man would move just as he is moving to day they make the trip across the Straits of Gibraltar in small boats many of which are sunk by the wash of passing large ships in the night or are caught in bad weather. I know I have seen it my self while working in the Straits, not very nice. But make it legal and in time things would even out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonthai Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 (edited) fridom to travel is only one of the freedoms we can strive for. I wouldn't call travel documents degrading - more like restricting, and they are not the couse of misery, poverty, sickness, exploitation, death. The cause for them is rather the present socio-economic system we live in. It's the very competition in the market place for work, which you praise, creating those problems. Abolishing travel documents won't stop slavery or relocating companies to the third world countries. If there is market place for work we are all slaves to the employers and untill there are poorly payed workers abroad and there are cheap mineral resources - companies will be moving there to exploit the situation and make more profit. Untill there is a devision in the society on poor and rich there always will be abuse of power, same goes with different countries (poorer countries being colonised or occupied by the richer ones). Untill the governments do exist they always will be controlling their own population - even if there is no passports (as it's in Europe or states of america or as it was in the 19th century Europe). tell me there is no misery, sickness, exploitation, death in a contemporary europe or the united states of america for their own citisens as well as the 'aliens' Edited October 13, 2007 by londonthai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Can you accept if everyone has a key to your house? Why should I want to give everyone the key to my house? Try to read the topic again as I think you may be replying to somthing else. OK, make it this way. Would you mind not locking the doors of your house so anyone could walk in as they like? Key = Passport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Can you accept if everyone has a key to your house? Why should I want to give everyone the key to my house? Try to read the topic again as I think you may be replying to somthing else. OK, make it this way. Would you mind not locking the doors of your house so anyone could walk in as they like? Key = Passport The average Isaan people do this but I doubt Bill Gates would like this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 Can you accept if everyone has a key to your house? Why should I want to give everyone the key to my house? Try to read the topic again as I think you may be replying to somthing else. OK, make it this way. Would you mind not locking the doors of your house so anyone could walk in as they like? Key = Passport The average Isaan people do this but I doubt Bill Gates would like this idea. Yes then I would be happy to give up my passport and compete on a level playing field because I truly think it would be a great step forward for mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esbobes Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 (edited) REAL FREEDOM I have for many years considered travel documents such as passports and visa's to be degrading. Why should anyone on Earth need permission to travel and live where one chooses? I believe that restrictions passports and visa's impose are the cause of much misery, poverty, sickness, exploitation of people and the death of thousands every year directly and indirectly. Everyone should be able to travel freely to any place they wish to go to and be able to stay for as long as they want and compete in the market place for work. It would put an immediate stop to people smuggling, slavery, stop companies from locating to third world countries to take advantage of cheep labour and would allow for a better distribution of wealth. Countries that oppress their people would no longer be able to rule with fear and would have instead to woo people to their country with great offers of peace and prosperity. Indeed the benefits would far outweigh any disadvantages that I can see. The terrorist might also become a thing of the past who knows. Many of the arguments that I have had are simply raciest and some think that it would in some way take away their national identity, others simply don't want to compete for work. It is interesting to note that before World War I, passports were not widely used for international travel, and in most areas, few people had one. According to the website for Passport Canada, "The rising popularity of rail travel in the mid-19th century led to an explosion of tourism throughout Europe and caused a complete breakdown in the European passport and visa system. In answer to this crisis, France abolished passports and visas in 1861. Other European countries followed suit, and by 1914, passport requirements had been eliminated practically everywhere in Europe. Crossing a border was usually very easy, and no supporting documentation or declarations were required. However, internal passports were commonly required for travel within a handful of countries, including the Ottoman Empire andTsarist Russia where they were commonly held documents". Sounds like an early form of European Community to me. If indeed we did all have a common ancestor that walked out of Africa about 2000 generations ago (all achieved without a passport) then we are all black under the skin and family, should we not strive to reunite as one family the family of man. BY GRAHAM NASH Oct 2007 Well you are right I think all the people that from India China and Africa should have the right to go to Switzerland. As Switzerland is very rich they will be also very rich. This way there will be no more poor people on earth. You instead of Gore should have gotten the Noble Peace Prize. Well maybe next year. Edited October 13, 2007 by esbobes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Well you are right I think all the people that from India China and Africa should have the right to go to Switzerland.As Switzerland is very rich they will be also very rich. This way there will be no more poor people on earth. You instead of Gore should have gotten the Noble Peace Prize. Well maybe next year. I for one like the borders I live within Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Well you are right I think all the people that from India China and Africa should have the right to go to Switzerland.As Switzerland is very rich they will be also very rich. This way there will be no more poor people on earth. You instead of Gore should have gotten the Noble Peace Prize. Well maybe next year. Yes, actually - especially right now they should all go to Switzerland and take over before it turns into the brown sheep of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Can you accept if everyone has a key to your house? Why should I want to give everyone the key to my house? Try to read the topic again as I think you may be replying to somthing else. OK, make it this way. Would you mind not locking the doors of your house so anyone could walk in as they like? Key = Passport The average Isaan people do this but I doubt Bill Gates would like this idea. Yes then I would be happy to give up my passport and compete on a level playing field because I truly think it would be a great step forward for mankind. I really don't disagree with you. I would like to see that happen too. I would like to see a beautiful world. But it is just not going to happen. It is like asking if it would be nice to see every starving person on earth has his own Rolls Royce. Human beings are hungry for power. And it takes people to sacrifice to fullfil those needs. Anyway, good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 REAL FREEDOM BY GRAHAM NASH Oct 2007 Exactly my view on passports, borders and nationalism. I still wouldn't mind the source of the article, and/or something about the writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Well you are right I think all the people that from India China and Africa should have the right to go to Switzerland.As Switzerland is very rich they will be also very rich. This way there will be no more poor people on earth. You instead of Gore should have gotten the Noble Peace Prize. Well maybe next year. Yes, actually - especially right now they should all go to Switzerland and take over before it turns into the brown sheep of Europe. Seems that Colpyat is from Switzerland! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Seems that Colpyat is from Switzerland! No - fortunately not! If i would be, i guess i would be there right now trying to fight Blocher's SVP fascists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Seems that Colpyat is from Switzerland! No - fortunately not! If i would be, i guess i would be there right now trying to fight Blocher's SVP fascists. Is there anything you don't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 REAL FREEDOM BY GRAHAM NASH Oct 2007 Exactly my view on passports, borders and nationalism. I still wouldn't mind the source of the article, and/or something about the writer. Thank you it's nice to see that others can see the big picture there is hope. I am the author and you can find out more about me from my profile. Graham Nash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 I'm just going to sit back and enjoy this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZukiSuzuki Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 It is like asking if it would be nice to see every starving person on earth has his own Rolls Royce. I think rolls of bread rather than Rolls Royce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 It is like asking if it would be nice to see every starving person on earth has his own Rolls Royce. I think rolls of bread rather than Rolls Royce Rolls of bread nice start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColPyat Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Seems that Colpyat is from Switzerland! No - fortunately not! If i would be, i guess i would be there right now trying to fight Blocher's SVP fascists. Is there anything you don't know? Yes - i have no clue how to make money. Other than that, no idea about cars, i know that electricity comes from the plug, no idea about economics or the stock market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 "As long as there are sovereign nations possessing great power, war is inevitable. There is no salvation for civilization, or even the human race, other than the creation of a world government." -- Albert Einstein" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Even within a country there are different gangsters groups killing each other. Even within a country there are rich people who could burn money for a bbq whilst the poor can't even have a chicken bone to lick. The problems won't go away, the most you can do is to change them into different forms. I wish I am wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intumult Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Without passports you have no border control so all those Mexicans will flood into the USA and cause anarchy and chaos. All those thousands sitting in France would become millions waiting to flood into the UK. The UK then would not be the country we love to love and hate. The UK would sink under the weight of all those foreigners. People born in countries that have wealth would no longer have the incentive to create more wealth. All those terrorists would be able to come and go and plant bombs etc as they please. I feel it would be a backward step to abolish passports and border controls. The world is a different place to what it was 150 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 these utopian and useless daydreams were popular among schoolchildren , californians and hippies way back in the 1960's , along with communes , and flower power , i thought such ideas had disappeared. apparently they havent. that anyone could even in their wildest dreams imagine that in todays chaotic world complete freedom of movement , the abolition of border controls and freedom to live and work wherever you selfishly thought it might best benefit you is proof indeed that human evolution has a long way to go yet. replacing individual governments with a world government , and you end up with a huge e.u. over regulated , undemocratic and robotic. should we not strive to reunite as one family the family of man. have you ever experienced the discord , intrigue , backbiting and mindgames that can exist even within a family of half a dozen ? rather than spouting your fluffy dreams of this impossible holy grail of sunny days , happy people and dictatorships welcoming people to their country with offers of peace and prosperity , you need to get out more and avail yourself of a large dose of reality , human nature , business and politics. i.e. the things that , for better or for worse , make our world go round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 Without passports you have no border control so all those Mexicans will flood into the USA and cause anarchy and chaos. All those thousands sitting in France would become millions waiting to flood into the UK. The UK then would not be the country we love to love and hate. The UK would sink under the weight of all those foreigners.People born in countries that have wealth would no longer have the incentive to create more wealth. All those terrorists would be able to come and go and plant bombs etc as they please. I feel it would be a backward step to abolish passports and border controls. The world is a different place to what it was 150 years ago. If as you say the UK was invaded buy so many what work would there be for them so why would they stay? I think the word would soon get out and no one would go there in fact many would leave. What I am trying to say like water it will find it's own level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 these utopian and useless daydreams were popular among schoolchildren , californians and hippies way back in the 1960's , along with communes , and flower power , i thought such ideas had disappeared.apparently they havent. that anyone could even in their wildest dreams imagine that in todays chaotic world complete freedom of movement , the abolition of border controls and freedom to live and work wherever you selfishly thought it might best benefit you is proof indeed that human evolution has a long way to go yet. replacing individual governments with a world government , and you end up with a huge e.u. over regulated , undemocratic and robotic. should we not strive to reunite as one family the family of man. have you ever experienced the discord , intrigue , backbiting and mindgames that can exist even within a family of half a dozen ? rather than spouting your fluffy dreams of this impossible holy grail of sunny days , happy people and dictatorships welcoming people to their country with offers of peace and prosperity , you need to get out more and avail yourself of a large dose of reality , human nature , business and politics. i.e. the things that , for better or for worse , make our world go round. ''replacing individual governments with a world government'' Did I write that!! Hummm or it that what you want to see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 If you wish to reply to my articie please read it first. Many thanks Graham Nash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now