Build Or Buy

[Tafia]

After a number of years visiting I shall retire to LOS next year.(Probably Issan) I have spent a fair bit of time reading through the different posts on property subjects with mixed feelings.

What are the For & Againsts with Building or Buying - Town or Village??

Any sound thoughts or advice appreciated.

[londonthai]

building your own house gives you the design and standard you need, will save you as well money. But you really have to be there yourself or have some trustworthy thai relative to supervise the work.

Play safe - first rent a house in the area you are interested in, find a piece of land and do your home.

[PadThaiGuy]

If you build or remodel, be prepared to be overcharged every step of the way and expect nothing but inferior workmanship.

The integrity of the workmen I have been involved with is appaling.

[Thaicoon]

If you build or remodel, be prepared to be overcharged every step of the way and expect nothing but inferior workmanship.

The integrity of the workmen I have been involved with is appaling.

Same in most countrys, not just Thailand, there are cowboys in the UK overcharging,

I have built 2 houses in Esarn, Workmanship superb and not overcharged, rule no1 is make sure you get a reputable builder and ask to see some of his projects, (Ferang houses), even ask the owner if they are happy with the finished product and time scale, this will put your mind at rest, good luck.

[tamsin]

If you build or remodel, be prepared to be overcharged every step of the way and expect nothing but inferior workmanship.

The integrity of the workmen I have been involved with is appaling.

Same in most countrys, not just Thailand, there are cowboys in the UK overcharging,

I have built 2 houses in Esarn, Workmanship superb and not overcharged, rule no1 is make sure you get a reputable builder and ask to see some of his projects, (Ferang houses), even ask the owner if they are happy with the finished product and time scale, this will put your mind at rest, good luck.

Yes but in the uk you have recourse to the law, which you definitely, positively DO NOT here, as I found out after three lying robbing bastard builders and a dozen incompetent cover Thai arse lawyers here. Christ.l

[Thaicoon]

If you build or remodel, be prepared to be overcharged every step of the way and expect nothing but inferior workmanship.

The integrity of the workmen I have been involved with is appaling.

Same in most countrys, not just Thailand, there are cowboys in the UK overcharging,

I have built 2 houses in Esarn, Workmanship superb and not overcharged, rule no1 is make sure you get a reputable builder and ask to see some of his projects, (Ferang houses), even ask the owner if they are happy with the finished product and time scale, this will put your mind at rest, good luck.

Yes but in the uk you have recourse to the law, which you definitely, positively DO NOT here, as I found out after three lying robbing bastard builders and a dozen incompetent cover Thai arse lawyers here. Christ.l

Sorry about the problems you have had, but i am just quoting you can have the same problems with builders in the UK, law or no law, i know in thailand there is no such comeback if you are stung, but there is one way of dealing with it or them later .

[chownah]

Tafia,

If you can find a house that meets your requirements in the area you wish to live in then buying should save you alot of money since the second hand house market is very slow as most Thai people want knew houses as a cultural matter.

Also, if you do not feel confident that you could oversee a house building right now you might consider buying a minimal small cheap house and having an addition put on....this might be a more manageable project for a first time home builder....see how it goes...sort of educate yourself on building while already living here and doing it at a more casual pace since you already have a home to live in......just another angle.

It would be good to ask yourself if you think you know enough about house building or do you know enough about finding a reliable builder so that you can proceed with building a house while maintaining your sanity. Seems to me that buying a house and renovating it would be a more manageable project than starting from scratch...

Chownah

[Tafia]

Tafia,

If you can find a house that meets your requirements in the area you wish to live in then buying should save you alot of money since the second hand house market is very slow as most Thai people want knew houses as a cultural matter.

Also, if you do not feel confident that you could oversee a house building right now you might consider buying a minimal small cheap house and having an addition put on....this might be a more manageable project for a first time home builder....see how it goes...sort of educate yourself on building while already living here and doing it at a more casual pace since you already have a home to live in......just another angle.

It would be good to ask yourself if you think you know enough about house building or do you know enough about finding a reliable builder so that you can proceed with building a house while maintaining your sanity. Seems to me that buying a house and renovating it would be a more manageable project than starting from scratch...

Chownah

Thats what i was thinking, I dont know a lot about house building and certainly nothing about thai building or builders, I am also of a mind that although I dont want to be over run with farangs I also dont want to be too isolated whereas Im only surrounded by Thai (possibly a village) My Gf works as a teacher so I accept that I shall be on my own most of the day 5 days a week so I will want to go into town (or City)and thats another reason im considering the buying option in favour of the building.....any thoughts are as always gratefully received.

[Greenman]

Take the punt and build the house yourself. Don't listen to the know it alls who probably never worked with a Thai in their life. They tell you Thai people will rip you off they are no where near as bad as many Farang make out. Well not unless you are totally stupid and got money coming out your ears.........then plenty farang who will rip you off without having a Thai do it LOL

I have been involved in renovations and building for more than a few years in Thailand (no i don't want to build your house) and the fun you get from doing it is second to none.

If you are told it's going to cost 1.5 million baht to build then add 20%. At some stage near the end you will get the Thai in charge coming up to you to say he doesn't have enough tiles or needs more wood. Pay them too much at once and don't expect them to turn up on the Monday. If you can accept that then you are half way there already.

It's not that they are ripping you off it's basically they have no idea how to plan a job out. They cut the biggest piece of wood they can find with no thought of what comes next. So be prepared for a few headaches.

However the joy you can get from doing it on your own is second to none. So what if it costs you a couple of hundred thousand baht more than you expected......still a dam_n site cheaper than buying someone elses that you end up changing the hel_l out of anyway.

You can get drawings fairly cheaply. My friend is an Engineer and he is building his own 4 bedroom house somehwere south of Hua hin. He has spent hours on end checking and improving the drawings and has now started. He bought them of the shelf from an architect for around 30,000 baht and paid another 20,000 to have him make the changes he wanted.

I was out for a few beers with him last night and he is already pulling his hair out but loving every minute of it.

All you need is one decent Thai guy with building experince.....not as difficult to find as some would have you believe.

Go for it mate you're only old once LOl

[Naam]

(no i don't want to build your house) and the fun you get from doing it is second to none.

i can confirm that one caveat though: please make sure not to indulge in premeditated murder, manslaughter or torture of any workmen, supervisors or building contractors. fill a plastic water bottle with Gin or Vodka and hang it on your belt. every time you feel like picking up a steel rod to beat the living sh*t out of any of the afore-mentioned human beings sit down in a corner, take a big sip from your bottle and wait till the seizure is over. if necessary take two or three big sips.

[Thaicoon]

Take the punt and build the house yourself. Don't listen to the know it alls who probably never worked with a Thai in their life. They tell you Thai people will rip you off they are no where near as bad as many Farang make out. Well not unless you are totally stupid and got money coming out your ears.........then plenty farang who will rip you off without having a Thai do it LOL

I have been involved in renovations and building for more than a few years in Thailand (no i don't want to build your house) and the fun you get from doing it is second to none.

If you are told it's going to cost 1.5 million baht to build then add 20%. At some stage near the end you will get the Thai in charge coming up to you to say he doesn't have enough tiles or needs more wood. Pay them too much at once and don't expect them to turn up on the Monday. If you can accept that then you are half way there already.

It's not that they are ripping you off it's basically they have no idea how to plan a job out. They cut the biggest piece of wood they can find with no thought of what comes next. So be prepared for a few headaches.

However the joy you can get from doing it on your own is second to none. So what if it costs you a couple of hundred thousand baht more than you expected......still a dam_n site cheaper than buying someone elses that you end up changing the hel_l out of anyway.

You can get drawings fairly cheaply. My friend is an Engineer and he is building his own 4 bedroom house somehwere south of Hua hin. He has spent hours on end checking and improving the drawings and has now started. He bought them of the shelf from an architect for around 30,000 baht and paid another 20,000 to have him make the changes he wanted.

I was out for a few beers with him last night and he is already pulling his hair out but loving every minute of it.

All you need is one decent Thai guy with building experince.....not as difficult to find as some would have you believe.

Go for it mate you're only old once LOl

Nicely said, I agree all the way on this one, get a decent thai builder, you are almost there.

[Gary A]

I would buy a house off the market if possible. Unfortunately there are VERY few that are attractive to farang buyers. Of course if you build your own, you can have it done to your design. Anyone who has ever had anything built will NOT be eager to go through it again.

[Tafia]

I would buy a house off the market if possible. Unfortunately there are VERY few that are attractive to farang buyers. Of course if you build your own, you can have it done to your design. Anyone who has ever had anything built will NOT be eager to go through it again.

Thanks Guys I'm even more confused now but plenty to think about.

[maipleur]

If you build or remodel, be prepared to be overcharged every step of the way and expect nothing but inferior workmanship.

The integrity of the workmen I have been involved with is appaling.

Same in most countrys, not just Thailand, there are cowboys in the UK overcharging,

I have built 2 houses in Esarn, Workmanship superb and not overcharged, rule no1 is make sure you get a reputable builder and ask to see some of his projects, (Ferang houses), even ask the owner if they are happy with the finished product and time scale, this will put your mind at rest, good luck.

Now come on, dont even think about comparing the rest of the world to Thailand in regards to workmanship.. sheesh!

I agree with you that if you CAN FIND a reputable builder, your half way there.

[Greenman]

If you build or remodel, be prepared to be overcharged every step of the way and expect nothing but inferior workmanship.

The integrity of the workmen I have been involved with is appaling.

Same in most countrys, not just Thailand, there are cowboys in the UK overcharging,

I have built 2 houses in Esarn, Workmanship superb and not overcharged, rule no1 is make sure you get a reputable builder and ask to see some of his projects, (Ferang houses), even ask the owner if they are happy with the finished product and time scale, this will put your mind at rest, good luck.

Now come on, dont even think about comparing the rest of the world to Thailand in regards to workmanship.. sheesh!

I agree with you that if you CAN FIND a reputable builder, your half way there.

I was a builder in the UK and the standard of finish was deplorable. They originated the saying "Putty and Paint makes a carpenter what he aint" Such are the bonus systems they shoot through work faster than a speeding bullet. Sheesh!! I have seen some real bad work in my time.

At least here you can ask them to redo things here without having a war on your hands.........They basically do a fiairly good job but then look at you as if you are stupid when you hand them a snagging line. So you have to stand over them while they sort out the small niggly things.

They just don't have the same standards that we as Farang expect when we are the one paying.

In short they cover mistakes in the West with putty and paint. Here in Thailand they just paint them

[suiging]

Try looking for your land first.

Sounds silly but location is all important. When you have it, still rent. Travel round your area talking to people and looking at workmanship first hand. You will soon find the decent craftsmen in your area as there will not be that many about !!!!

Never hire anyone until you have seen their capabilities and have more than one reference. Process takes a while but well worth it.

[dave111223]

If you build or remodel, be prepared to be overcharged every step of the way and expect nothing but inferior workmanship.

The integrity of the workmen I have been involved with is appaling.

Same in most countrys, not just Thailand, there are cowboys in the UK overcharging,

I have built 2 houses in Esarn, Workmanship superb and not overcharged, rule no1 is make sure you get a reputable builder and ask to see some of his projects, (Ferang houses), even ask the owner if they are happy with the finished product and time scale, this will put your mind at rest, good luck.

Now come on, dont even think about comparing the rest of the world to Thailand in regards to workmanship.. sheesh!

I agree with you that if you CAN FIND a reputable builder, your half way there.

You would be shocked at some of the workmanship in the US.

My parents just finished building a house in the US (which they said they would never do again).

They paid a tiler $1,500 deposit for doing the tile work in bathrooms/some other areas. They could see right away on the first room that the tiles were all over the place, and the next day had all come off (all had to be thrown out).

They asked for the deposit back (minus the couple of days of work) and he said he already spent it.

He offer to help out with other odd jobs to pay off the money but never really showed up and was as useless with other stuff as he was with tiling.

The next tiler they hired was better but had a co-worker who f*cked up quite a few of the rooms, not to mention the amount of wasted tiles.

The electricians were pretty bad too. Some rooms had 4 out of 5 plugs not working. Most of the light switches were not even put of straight.

The sheet rock guys put nails through some pipes so the plumbers had to rip holes in the sheet rock to fix the pipes.

List goes on.

You can find good and bad builders all over the world.

[jstumbo]

You would be shocked at some of the workmanship in the US.

My parents just finished building a house in the US (which they said they would never do again).

They paid a tiler $1,500 deposit for doing the tile work in bathrooms/some other areas. They could see right away on the first room that the tiles were all over the place, and the next day had all come off (all had to be thrown out).

They asked for the deposit back (minus the couple of days of work) and he said he already spent it.

He offer to help out with other odd jobs to pay off the money but never really showed up and was as useless with other stuff as he was with tiling.

The next tiler they hired was better but had a co-worker who f*cked up quite a few of the rooms, not to mention the amount of wasted tiles.

The electricians were pretty bad too. Some rooms had 4 out of 5 plugs not working. Most of the light switches were not even put of straight.

The sheet rock guys put nails through some pipes so the plumbers had to rip holes in the sheet rock to fix the pipes.

List goes on.

You can find good and bad builders all over the world.

That is what you get when you hire illegal Mexicans to build your house.

When you put a pipe through a stud, you are supposed to put a metal coverplate on the stud that prevents any nails/screws from the sheet rocking going through the stud and into the pipe. Not sure who should be putting these cover plates on, whether it be the plumber or sheet rocker, but someone should have done it. You put them over wiring also to prevent nails from going through the wires. Maybe that is why the outlets did not work. Could cause a fire in the future.

[Greenman]

Yep everywhere in the world you get these propblems but it's fashioable to slag the Thais. "He who hath not sinned cast the first stone" Just doesn't compute with some Farang.

Having said that you still have to be careful and for Pete's sake get ONE manager you can trust....Never ever loose the place with any other Thai on the job, buy them a few beers on a Frday after work and if they like you they will work their backsides of for you.

FUNNY BUT TRUE: You do get some crackers here, but this guy really takes the buscuit. A customer who had asked me to build his house when I was too busy to oblige, had go another squad to do it for him. They were a bit expensive but the place is out of this world.

He was going on a trip and asked an electrician for a quote to install some ceiling fans cos he thought the original builder wanted too much. This electrician was a superstar if ever there was one.

The quote was fair so he left the cash with his daughter. The guy finished the job in jigtime without a hitch, got paid and off he went.

My friend comes back from his trip and sees all the fans have been installed exactly how he had asked.

One slight problem ..........No wiring ...worked out about 200 baht per screw

ONE manager ONE squad is the only way to go!!!

[dave111223]

That is what you get when you hire illegal Mexicans to build your house.

When you put a pipe through a stud, you are supposed to put a metal coverplate on the stud that prevents any nails/screws from the sheet rocking going through the stud and into the pipe. Not sure who should be putting these cover plates on, whether it be the plumber or sheet rocker, but someone should have done it. You put them over wiring also to prevent nails from going through the wires. Maybe that is why the outlets did not work. Could cause a fire in the future.

Quite strange that you assume the house was built by illegal Mexicans? Or do you just mean if the house had been built by illegal Mexicans there would have been similar problems?

They live in Ohio; so not too many illegal Mexicans around there to my knowledge; especially not building their house.

I am sure you are correct about the studs etc... my point is that you can get poor quality labor such as this even hiring regular American builders.

[appleman]

Do the math. Let's say you will spend Bt 3.5 million building a house. The land that that house is on will not be in your name of course. If instead of investing all that money here (with not much hope of it appreciating and your selling the house for a profit in the future) you invested that money, say at 5%. That's Bt 175,000 per year or Bt 14,583 per month. For that amount of money you could probably rent a very nice place, and have all your principle available to you any time you needed it, just in case you changed your mind. Also, all that investment would be completely under your control.

Of course, if you are wealthy, then go for it. But multiply everyting by 1.5 (time to build, cost of building, amount of stress you think you will have, etc.)

I have found that those who have bought a house already finished, and then made modifications, have been much happier.

And if you would like to know how others have fared then try these blogs.

Expats Builder’s Guide

http://www.coolthaihouse.com/

Building a house in Pataya

http://www.pattayabuilders.net/news_article.php

To Build a house in Thailand

http://www.thaivisa.com/build_house.0.html

How to buy and build a house in Thailand

http://www.dcothai.com/product_info.php?products_id=668

How to buy land and build a house in Thailand –

http://www.buythaibooks.com/customer/produ...p?productid=191

Building a house in Thailand –

http://www.ajarnmichael.com/BuildingHouse.html

Common sense about having a house in Thailand

http://www.ajarnmichael.com/OwnHouse.htm

House building tips

http://www.siam-info.de/english/house_building_.html

Building Thai Land

http://www.buildingthailand.com/

Building a house in Thailand

http://www.thaizine.com/Building001.php

The search

http://www.digitalnomad.org/Our%20House/the_search.htm

Thai houses

http://www.thaiworldview.com/house.htm

http://www.thaiworldview.com/house2.htm

http://www.thaiworldview.com/house3.htm

The Teak Door

http://<URL Automatically Removed>/construction-in-thailand/

[lazeeboy]

After a number of years visiting I shall retire to LOS next year.(Probably Issan) I have spent a fair bit of time reading through the different posts on property subjects with mixed feelings.

What are the For & Againsts with Building or Buying - Town or Village??

Any sound thoughts or advice appreciated.

building yourself is much cheaper ,you get a few headaches but if your retiring it gives you something to do ,and at the end you have a house thats ideal for your needs.

[Brigante7]

My wife's family live just outside Nakhon Phanom town and there are 2 big housing estates being built, mostly for farangs who are coming to live with wifes/GF from the area I think.

I have seen the development and inspected the ongoing work and have been told by the company that I can purchase an extra big plot and extend the house in size if I like and so that is what we will do when we go back in February.

We thought about buying a plot of land, desing our own house and have it built but I know absolutely nothing about Thai builders and how they work and I'm not prepared to risk 3 million Baht in the hope it turns out OK.

[Tafia]

Do the math. Let's say you will spend Bt 3.5 million building a house. The land that that house is on will not be in your name of course. If instead of investing all that money here (with not much hope of it appreciating and your selling the house for a profit in the future) you invested that money, say at 5%. That's Bt 175,000 per year or Bt 14,583 per month. For that amount of money you could probably rent a very nice place, and have all your principle available to you any time you needed it, just in case you changed your mind. Also, all that investment would be completely under your control.

Of course, if you are wealthy, then go for it. But multiply everyting by 1.5 (time to build, cost of building, amount of stress you think you will have, etc.)

I have found that those who have bought a house already finished, and then made modifications, have been much happier.

Thanks for that - very informative and it seems the way i am starting to think is the safest bet...

[Tafia]

My wife's family live just outside Nakhon Phanom town and there are 2 big housing estates being built, mostly for farangs who are coming to live with wifes/GF from the area I think.

I have seen the development and inspected the ongoing work and have been told by the company that I can purchase an extra big plot and extend the house in size if I like and so that is what we will do when we go back in February.

We thought about buying a plot of land, desing our own house and have it built but I know absolutely nothing about Thai builders and how they work and I'm not prepared to risk 3 million Baht in the hope it turns out OK.

would be interested in any more you have on that potential prices location etc

[Brigante7]

My wife's family live just outside Nakhon Phanom town and there are 2 big housing estates being built, mostly for farangs who are coming to live with wifes/GF from the area I think.

I have seen the development and inspected the ongoing work and have been told by the company that I can purchase an extra big plot and extend the house in size if I like and so that is what we will do when we go back in February.

We thought about buying a plot of land, desing our own house and have it built but I know absolutely nothing about Thai builders and how they work and I'm not prepared to risk 3 million Baht in the hope it turns out OK.

would be interested in any more you have on that potential prices location etc

I've sent you a PM Tafia.

[jstumbo]

That is what you get when you hire illegal Mexicans to build your house.

When you put a pipe through a stud, you are supposed to put a metal coverplate on the stud that prevents any nails/screws from the sheet rocking going through the stud and into the pipe. Not sure who should be putting these cover plates on, whether it be the plumber or sheet rocker, but someone should have done it. You put them over wiring also to prevent nails from going through the wires. Maybe that is why the outlets did not work. Could cause a fire in the future.

Quite strange that you assume the house was built by illegal Mexicans? Or do you just mean if the house had been built by illegal Mexicans there would have been similar problems?

They live in Ohio; so not too many illegal Mexicans around there to my knowledge; especially not building their house.

I am sure you are correct about the studs etc... my point is that you can get poor quality labor such as this even hiring regular American builders.

The housing industry has been overrun throughout the US by illegal mexicans. Meat packing, agriculture, and construction are probably the three biggest areas where they are hired. The contractors can hire them cheaper, and they work harder and longer than the lazy/spoilt US citizens. Problem is sometimes they bring their quality expectations from Mexico with them. Same thing as in Thailand when a foreigner has a house built, they are cheaper, but you have to keep an eye on their work and check after them to ensure that the quality standards meet what you expect.

Edited October 30, 2007 by jstumbo

[KhunDennis]

For me personally, I would NEVER again have a house built. It was just too stressful and unpleasant of an experience, for both me and my Thai wife.

If I could do it again I would look into buying an existing house in a development, so you could actually see what you are paying for. Another thing to consider, in a development with some fellow falangs, you could have some neighbors to socialize with, if you wanted. Of course everyones situation is different.

I did not have any experience or real knowledge of building a house, and Thailand is a tuff place to gain it. I think it would have helped, if I had read this forum before, I started the project, there is a lot of good advice here.

Hindsight is a great teacher